Giving players what they want Revisited

[Dr TPK]

A few days ago we had a game session in the world of Greyhawk. I'm the DM and the mid-level PCs are fighting in a major war. They managed to liberate some slaves from the yoke of an Orcish army. Almost all of the slaves were members of evil races, but there were 30 young human females who were being used for adult-themed reasons.

The general (a powerful paladin/cleric) of the army asked for volunteers to take care of the females. The reason why I did this was to see how the PCs would act according to their alignments and motivations and how they would interact with the deeply traumatized women, one of whom was pregnant to an orc (who was now captive) and wishing to have an abortion, which is strictly illegal in my world.

One of the PCs took the women under his care and immediately wanted to arm the women and make them his personal bodyguard unit. The PC in question is Neutral Good. Now he keeps talking about this all the time and has repeated his offer a few times to the women.

So I'm just thinking...
Option #1: Since I have scripted these NPCs as 1st-level commoners in poor health and one of them is pregnant, I should just keep them the way they are and see how the PCs react.
Option #2: Give the player what he wants. The women are suddenly warriors or even fighters and wizards and they will take up arms and fight alongside with the PCs.
Option #3: ?

[Mr.Kraken]

I think option #1 is definetly the better option. If the player doesn't act according to the world you've created, then he shouldn't get what he wants. What you could do to balance both options is to let some of the women, the more vengeful ones, join him. This would be the minority, though, and they would join him only to fight against the orcs. Let them be commoners as you've envisoned them, and if any of them manage to survive and level up, give them a level of warrior.

Maybe it would be interesting to see how the PC and the NPCs would react to that attitude, especially if the women die a horrible, gruesome death in battle.

[Riculf]

I agree with Mr Kraken, however if any of the women CHOOSE to join up (many still wouldn't) and they survive long enough to get a level you could randomly determine if they have a previously-untapped-natural inclination to any of the classes. Some may take up the divine cause. Some may be the charismatic ones ("popular" in the "entertainment" pits) that have a leaning to Favoured Soul or Sorcerer, etc, etc, etc :smallbiggrin:

[Sam K]

Is the guy roleplaying Khaddafi?

If he makes a serious attempt at it, and is willing to invest time (and some gold for trainers and equipment) then perhaps allow some re-training. Say that half (this is being very generous) of them have the aptitude to take a different class: most of them would be basic warriors, with a couple maybe being able to become fighters. Maybe one or two could actually take levels as cleric or sorcerer if it seems appropriate. Ofcourse, even if he invests money and time in training and outfitting them, he's likely to see them killed if he takes them adventuring. But if he wants to spend his "fun-money" to have a bodyguard of young ladies, why not?

If he just gives them weapons and expects them to fight (or uses his authority to force them into combat situations), I'd say he's RPing Evel Knievel, because he just jumped atleast 5 alignments in one go!

[mvpmack]

I'm definitely in the same boat as Mr. Kraken but it should also be based on how well the player makes his appeals. These women shouldn't just go to fight because he asks, but rather because they have a reason to fight. Many will want to help, but will be too afraid to do something like fight, and you could easily play that out -- they arm a girl who does volunteer with a crossbow, then have her freeze and/or panic in the sight of actual battle.

In real life, close to 50% of women wash out of US military basic training (the percentage is not that much lower for men). Normal people aren't warriors, and the vast majority of them will never have what it takes to kill on the battlefield. A player controlling a nigh-invulnerable death machine (which is what player characters are) can't really understand how difficult and terrifying it is to point a weapon at the enemy and pull the trigger when lives are on the line.

My experience on the battlefield is that there are even people who signed up for the job, but still didn't want to engage the enemy directly. Combat is a terrible thing, and you have the opportunity to show just how different and fragile normal people are compared to your heroes. Use it!

[prufock]

A few days ago we had a game session in the world of Greyhawk. I'm the DM and the mid-level PCs are fighting in a major war. They managed to liberate some slaves from the yoke of an Orcish army. Almost all of the slaves were members of evil races, but there were 30 young human females who were being used for adult-themed reasons.

The general (a powerful paladin/cleric) of the army asked for volunteers to take care of the females. The reason why I did this was to see how the PCs would act according to their alignments and motivations and how they would interact with the deeply traumatized women, one of whom was pregnant to an orc (who was now captive) and wishing to have an abortion, which is strictly illegal in my world.

One of the PCs took the women under his care and immediately wanted to arm the women and make them his personal bodyguard unit. The PC in question is Neutral Good. Now he keeps talking about this all the time and has repeated his offer a few times to the women.

So I'm just thinking...
Option #1: Since I have scripted these NPCs as 1st-level commoners in poor health and one of them is pregnant, I should just keep them the way they are and see how the PCs react.
Option #2: Give the player what he wants. The women are suddenly warriors or even fighters and wizards and they will take up arms and fight alongside with the PCs.
Option #3: ?

Option #3: Leadership. At mid-level, leadership score is conceivably at least 10 or 11. If the player really wants this bodyguard unit, have him take the Leadership feat. He gets a number of 1st-level NPC followers from this group of women. They can't fight yet, but are willing to learn. This puts the decision in the player's hands instead of yours, since he's using a rule-based means of acquiring them. It has the added benefit of making him burn a feat on these bodyguards, so you don't feel he's getting something for nothing.

[Surpriser]

I think that no matter what you decide, the majority of the women should not simply volunteer to serve as meatshields for someone they dont know after just being freed from slavery.
Some of them may wish to join the fight to get revenge (though that does not necessarily make them suited for this task and they might rethink their choice as soon as combat starts), but most would simply want to get as far away from the fighting as possible. You describe them as deeply traumatized - not the best base for "expendable bodyguards" and your player should really get to feel that.

In addition, other NPCs will probably be shocked even by the very thought of sending freed slaves (who seem to be noncombatants) into battle again.

[Toilet Cobra]

Option #3: Leadership. At mid-level, leadership score is conceivably at least 10 or 11. If the player really wants this bodyguard unit, have him take the Leadership feat. He gets a number of 1st-level NPC followers from this group of women. They can't fight yet, but are willing to learn. This puts the decision in the player's hands instead of yours, since he's using a rule-based means of acquiring them. It has the added benefit of making him burn a feat on these bodyguards, so you don't feel he's getting something for nothing.

I think this is the best option. Of course, whenever I make an offer like this to my players they generally immediately drop their idea because they didn't consider having to pay for the thing they wanted.

[Sewercop]

Option #2: Give the player what he wants. The women are suddenly warriors or even fighters and wizards and they will take up arms and fight alongside with the PCs.

And they are enslaved because they are Wizards and Fighters?
What happens when a player ask why the 30 highly skilled lethal women were submissive to orcs?

It breaks any form of immersion.
What level are the characters?

[Dr TPK]

What level are the characters?

6, 6, 8 and 9.

[Coidzor]

The general (a powerful paladin/cleric) of the army asked for volunteers to take care of the females. The reason why I did this was to see how the PCs would act according to their alignments and motivations and how they would interact with the deeply traumatized women, one of whom was pregnant to an orc (who was now captive) and wishing to have an abortion, which is strictly illegal in my world.

Probably not the best of ideas to see how the players will react to legitimately horrible and traumatic events in game. They'll almost always disappoint you, especially when you mix in real world politics.


One of the PCs took the women under his care and immediately wanted to arm the women and make them his personal bodyguard unit. The PC in question is Neutral Good. Now he keeps talking about this all the time and has repeated his offer a few times to the women.

So I'm just thinking...
Option #1: Since I have scripted these NPCs as 1st-level commoners in poor health and one of them is pregnant, I should just keep them the way they are and see how the PCs react.
Option #2: Give the player what he wants. The women are suddenly warriors or even fighters and wizards and they will take up arms and fight alongside with the PCs.
Option #3: ?

Well the obvious Option 3 is "Magic, Magic, Magic! (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-yZHveWFvqM)"(Mineralize Warrior comes to mind, though there are others, I think) and Option 4 is probably use secret processes to train those that are interested to become something other than unstatted commoners, since unless some infants are just born Commoners and others are born Fighters or Warriors or Wizards, then *some* mechanism exists to train people in classes, though it typically takes some number of years for proto-characters but is basically automagically applied to existing characters and creatures, though that's probably more the magical effects of XP and leveling for that rapidity, though I'd probably split the difference and have it be something that's more on the order of weeks to months rather than years.

Option 5 involves infecting them with various strains of lycanthropy and putting the pregnant ones in places where they're liable to get an unholy scion, which is going to be a fairly potent minion if the party can break it to their will with all the RHD of lycanthropy stacking placed onto it. If you stack the lycanthropies right, it might not even be an evil act aside from willingly creating an unholy scion. Though you want the fetal half-orc to be a lycanthrope before it becomes an unholy scion because it doesn't work the other way around.

[Lightlawbliss]

You are more than justified to say they are scared stiff of combat. You are also more than justified to have some volunteer with the intent of committing suicide via the men that "enjoyed" them, possibly taking one or two with them.

[BowStreetRunner]

First off, don't just assume that because it is what the character wants, that it is purely motivated by the player's own interest. I've played with some great role-players who did some things they felt were in-character even though they didn't really have a strong feeling about the matter out of game. Talk to your player just to make sure you are accurately gauging his interest vs his character's interest.

Second, I think the previous replies have pointed out correctly that the Leadership feat should be purchased if he is going to start attracting true followers. Otherwise, he has the option of paying for hirelings. He could also just motivate them and they would go somewhere else to sign up to fight. But followers are definitely part of the Leadership feat.

Third, I always am reminded at times like this of the Garth Brooks song (sorry if a country music reference is offensive to anyone), 'Unanswered Prayers'. Sometimes, the things we wish for turn out to be far from what we dreamed they would be. Several of the prior posts touched on the idea of letting one or more of the women take him up on the offer, only for it to turn out badly. One with a truly promising future ends up dying horribly. Another becomes a bothersome groupie/stalker that keeps mucking things up (giving away their position when hiding, forgetting to tie up the horses, etc) but still follows after him even after he turns her away. Or maybe one develops a blood-lust and eventually grows into an actual enemy.

Ultimately, as DM you must never just 'give' the players what they want, even if they ask you to. It's up to you to make them earn it. :smallbiggrin:

[endur]

So we had an adventure in the world of greyhawk (near the Dreadwood in Keoland), where we defeated a group of orcs and freed a bunch of female human prisoners.

One of the pregnant women went into delivery ... We had two female PC clerics in the party who assisted with the delivery...

My dwarven paladin, who slew the orc chief, ended up adopting the half-orc baby that the mother didn't want.