How do I come up with ideas as a GM?

[Techmagss]

I wanna be a DM, and I tried to DM a campaign on these very boards, but it got infested and overrun with optimisers, munchkins, power gamers and the like. Thusly, I'm thinking about just trying to make it Core-Only-could help. However, I've been thinking for a while, but I just can't get my head around a suitable story- I'm a decent writer, yet no matter how hard I think or how much autocorrect I use, I can't think of ideas for a story or script or whatever. Can I get some help?

[(Un)Inspired]

Here's a story:

A decent writer is trapped by hoards of optimisers [sic], munchkins, power gamers and the like. The party has come together to rescue him.

[Karl Aegis]

So you see your problem as a 10, eh? You don't think it can even get higher than a 10. Well, what you do is you keep turning it until it hits 11. That's when you know you're in a core-only game.

[Shining Wrath]

You read. You watch movies. You play video games.

You go for a walk.

Life becomes stories; stories become life.

[Techmagss]

{{scrubbed}}

[Vhaidara]

{{scrubbed}}

Here's the thing: The most brokenly overpowered things in 3.5 are in Core. Wizards, Clerics, Druids, Natural Spell, Divine Power, Gate, Wish, Summon Monster Spells, Planar Bindings, Planar Allies, Time Stop, True Seeing, Mind Blank, Foresight, Polymorph, Shapechange.

This is a short list.

Meanwhile, people who aren't casters are expected to spend 4 levels and two feats for +1 to hit and +2 to damage.

Core only games are a problem, not a solution. The game gets worse when you restrict people from things that make non-casters fun/viable. If anything, I recommend banning all Core classes and spells over restricting people to them. Tack Favored Soul, Psion, Archivist, Wu-Jen, and the token OP class that I forgot to list onto the ban list and you'll have a much better game

[Deadline]

{{scrubbed}}

They actually aren't. Seriously, ideas are everywhere. Steal the plot of a movie. Start with an absurd sentence, make it crazier, and build a loose plot off of it. Make a fantasy supervillain. If all else fails, take a red dragon, give him a large kobold tribe who follows him, and send them out to terrorize the surrounding countryside and kingdoms. BAM! Instant plot!

And restricting your game to core only won't help with powerful PCs. The most broken stuff is in Core. Maybe decide that you don't want to allow folks to use certain classes. Maybe require that everyone has a few levels of Rogue and run a thieves guild campaign. Make up a large city for them to operate in, or use one of the hundreds of large cities that currently exist in source, fiction, movies, etc. (Cities like Sigil, Waterdeep, The City (from the Thief series of computer games), etc.)

Edit - And I'm serious on the writer bit. I read a fantastic bit on a Shadowrun campaign that climaxed with the party quickly trying to decide what to do with the pen Josef Mengele used to sign the death warrants of numerous prisoners while an army of hungry ghosts of those prisoners closed in around them and a Papal Strike Team was trying to find them for entering the Auschwitz Dead Magic Zone.

[Kid Jake]

Run with the first thing that pops into your head. Take for example:

Kobolds raid a village for virgins or babies or whatever you want. PCs pursue Kobolds back to their lair, murder their way to the boss. Kobolds turn out to be employed by a dragon. Dragon flees, swearing revenge. Dragon uses its remaining wealth to finance retributive attacks on the PCs and hounds them at every turn. PCs finally track down and murder their annoying draconic nemesis. Upon killing the dragon they discover that it was working for something even darker and more sinister than itself. They find evidence that the dragon's boss is enacting a massive ritual at all corners of the nation (using the stolen virgins or babies or whatever) that will open a portal and gate in something that nobody in their right mind would want to see gated in. Etc...

[Tohsaka Rin]

If player power is a problem, try running an e6 game.

Could someone explain, in brief, what an e6 game entails? I tend to be very bad at explaining things clearly, without being able to make accompanying hand-gestures when I speak.

Seriously.

[Vhaidara]

If player power is a problem, try running an e6 game.

Could someone explain, in brief, what an e6 game entails? I tend to be very bad at explaining things clearly, without being able to make accompanying hand-gestures when I speak.

Seriously.

E6: Epic 6

Basically, the game plays as normal, except you stop levelling up at level 6. Instead, every X experience (determined ahead of time) you get to a bonus feat.

That's the tl;dr, I know there's a full guide to it, including some custom E6 feats and a number of homebrew classes designed to be used in E6 on GitP itself.

[(Un)Inspired]

{{scrubbed}}

Whoa buddy, call the dogs off. If you don't like my idea of turning your RL problem into plot inspiration you don't have to use it.

[Techmagss]

Whoa buddy, call the dogs off. If you don't like my idea of turning your RL problem into plot inspiration you don't have to use it.
{{scrubbed}}

Anywho, I said in the game I was trying to run that SRD and homebrew was allowed. Perhaps it's the latter part that just screwed me?

[Flickerdart]

I wanna be a DM, and I tried to DM a campaign on these very boards, but it got infested and overrun with optimisers, munchkins, power gamers and the like. Thusly, I'm thinking about just trying to make it Core-Only-could help. However, I've been thinking for a while, but I just can't get my head around a suitable story- I'm a decent writer, yet no matter how hard I think or how much autocorrect I use, I can't think of ideas for a story or script or whatever. Can I get some help?
Core-only is the worst way to go about this. Not only does core contain most of the game's deadly sins, as has been mentioned before, it also contains the game's biggest cliches. Nerd with robes who wiggles his fingers to shoot fire? Holy man who brings healing to the wounded? A sneaky thief who delivers powerful backstabs? Welcome to every cliche fantasy plot since 18-something-3.

Here's a great way to get those creative juices flowing: replace the standard 4-man band with any other 4 base classes in the game. What would a world look like where nobody would imagine learning how to swing a blade without an accompanying course on magic (hexblade, duskblade)? Or where fooling a guard's senses is always done with spell sideby side with stealth (beguiler, psychic rogue)? How about your typical magician having to tear a hole through reality every time he brings his eldritch patron's power forth (binder, warlock)?

Think about the consequences of boring fantasy cliches simply not existing in the world, and your plots will write themselves.

[Vhaidara]

{{scrubbed}}

Anywho, I said in the game I was trying to run that SRD and homebrew was allowed. Perhaps it's the latter part that just screwed me?

Nope. Even Homebrew will get you better characters than the SRD. As I covered in my previous post, restriction of sources will weaken nothing except the weakest of characters.

As far as for writing, as others have mentioned, watch TV, go to a movie, read a book. Then steal bits and pieces from like 7 different things. Make sure you change all of the names, and it would take an eagle eyed player to put everything together

[(Un)Inspired]

{{scrubbed}}

Anywho, I said in the game I was trying to run that SRD and homebrew was allowed. Perhaps it's the latter part that just screwed me?

I think your criteria for what qualifies as a colossal ass might be a tad low (not that I don't qualify, it's likely I am a colossal ass).

It can't be a hoard of optimizers, munchkins, etc, etc? Like a hoard of gold? I think you could have a hoard of them.

There's room in the English language for hoards and hordes.

[Xsatra]

Also, if you're new to DMing, don't run your first game on a forum that is filled with people that know the game in and out. Get some friends together and have fun learning.

[Techmagss]

I think your criteria for what qualifies as a colossal ass might be a tad low (not that I don't qualify, it's likely I am a colossal ass).

It can't be a hoard of optimizers, munchkins, etc, etc? Like a hoard of gold? I think you could have a hoard of them.

There's room in the English language for hoards and hordes.

They're completely different words.


horde
hɔːd/
noun
1.
derogatory
a large group of people.
"a horde of beery rugby fans"
an army or tribe of nomadic warriors.
"Tartar hordes"
synonyms: crowd, large group, mob, pack, gang, troop, army, swarm, mass
2.
ANTHROPOLOGY
a small loosely knit social group typically consisting of about five families.

hoard
hɔːd/
noun
1.
a stock or store of money or valued objects, typically one that is secret or carefully guarded.
"he came back to rescue his little hoard of gold"
synonyms: cache, stockpile, stock, store, collection, supply, reserve, reservoir, fund, accumulation, heap, pile, mass, aggregation, conglomeration, treasure house, treasure trove
an ancient store of coins or other valuable artefacts.
"a hoard of Romano-British bronzes"
an amassed store of useful information, retained for future use.
"a hoard of secret information about his work"
verb
verb: hoard; 3rd person present: hoards; past tense: hoarded; past participle: hoarded; gerund or present participle: hoarding
1.
accumulate (money or valued objects) and hide or store away.
"thousands of antiques hoarded by a compulsive collector"
synonyms: store, store up, stock up on, stockpile, put aside, put by, put away, lay by, lay in, lay up, set aside, stow away, buy up, cache, amass, heap up, pile up, stack up
antonyms: squander
keep in one's mind for future use.
"a year's worth of hoarded resentments and grudges"


Old English hord (noun), hordian (verb), of Germanic origin; related to German Hort (noun), horten (verb).

Well, no one in my area really plays dnd, I just self taught.
Played good stuff on these forums, and now I want to return the favour. Seems fitting.

[Deadline]

Also, if you're new to DMing, don't run your first game on a forum that is filled with people that know the game in and out. Get some friends together and have fun learning.

Or ask folks to take it easy because you are new in the DM chair. And you may also want to avoid jumping to conclusions on people's motives over a written medium. It avoids many arguments.

[pwykersotz]

When I ran low on inspiration, I just ran City of the Spider Queen. Then I collected the small ideas I got during running that and used them once the module was done.

[(Un)Inspired]

3rd edition D&D often doesn't work very smoothly if you are trying to run a story. The classes tend to offer too much narrative power to the character and without pretty severe choo-chooing you're not gonna be able to keep them on the path you want.

Is this what happen in the last game you tried to run?

My experience with 2e was more like what you're looking for, I believe (it could be that I'm misinterpreting you're problem). Plot rails seem to more entrenched in that system.

I hear 5e is good for this fort of game as well. I think DM house-ruling everything around to fit the story is a key part if that edition.

[BWR]

Problem 1: Optimizers.
As others have said, don't go Core only in an attempt to prevent optimization. Say ahead of time to your players that you don't want them to go overboard with their builds and that you will look over things on a case by case basis and may ban things in play if they prove too problematic. If there are individual elements that are problematic, ban those. If there are certain sub-systems you aren't familiar with or simply don't like, by all means ban those. Don't make random bans based on ill-informed impressions of balance. My experience is that if you just ask players nicely to not go overboard they will generally play nice.

Problem 2: inspiration.
There's an old saying about how good writers are inspired and great writers steal.
Steal.
Shamelessly.

I would start with published advententures. they've already done all the job of thinking up plots and encounters for you. There are plenty of published adventures and even entire campaigns in the form of Adventure Paths. Buy and run those. Even if you do nothing but throw plain dungeon crawls and wilderness adventures at your players, some sort of coherent over-arching plot or story often appears after a while.

When writing your own stuff, even if stealing, remember this: write situations and the intentions of the baddies. Don't write how the adventure must end, becuase your players will almost certainly mess that up. Write possible/probable conclusions but don't get caught in the trap that PCs must act a certain way.

[Techmagss]

Or ask folks to take it easy because you are new in the DM chair. And you may also want to avoid jumping to conclusions on people's motives over a written medium. It avoids many arguments.

Mm, well, the game I mentioned I tried to DM, people said 'okay' then just dumped a whole load of optimised to hell homebrew characters. Probably an attempt to take advantage of my noobiness.
Anyway, I'm worried people may start thinking lowly of me if I take a few thoughts/scenes from a movie or whatever, since it's like saying I have no creativity.

[Karl Aegis]

Taking a common every day problem and turning it up to eleven is a viable story. Take, for example, the barkeeper that waters down his alcohol so he can sell more beer. When your party shows up to investigate the bar they get served a frothing mug of Orcus and BAM! Instant story.

[(Un)Inspired]

They're completely different words.


horde
hɔːd/
noun
1.
derogatory
a large group of people.
"a horde of beery rugby fans"
an army or tribe of nomadic warriors.
"Tartar hordes"
synonyms: crowd, large group, mob, pack, gang, troop, army, swarm, mass
2.
ANTHROPOLOGY
a small loosely knit social group typically consisting of about five families.

hoard
hɔːd/
noun
1.
a stock or store of money or valued objects, typically one that is secret or carefully guarded.
"he came back to rescue his little hoard of gold"
synonyms: cache, stockpile, stock, store, collection, supply, reserve, reservoir, fund, accumulation, heap, pile, mass, aggregation, conglomeration, treasure house, treasure trove
an ancient store of coins or other valuable artefacts.
"a hoard of Romano-British bronzes"
an amassed store of useful information, retained for future use.
"a hoard of secret information about his work"
verb
verb: hoard; 3rd person present: hoards; past tense: hoarded; past participle: hoarded; gerund or present participle: hoarding
1.
accumulate (money or valued objects) and hide or store away.
"thousands of antiques hoarded by a compulsive collector"
synonyms: store, store up, stock up on, stockpile, put aside, put by, put away, lay by, lay in, lay up, set aside, stow away, buy up, cache, amass, heap up, pile up, stack up
antonyms: squander
keep in one's mind for future use.
"a year's worth of hoarded resentments and grudges"


Old English hord (noun), hordian (verb), of Germanic origin; related to German Hort (noun), horten (verb).

Well, no one in my area really plays dnd, I just self taught.
Played good stuff on these forums, and now I want to return the favour. Seems fitting.

Yeah I'm looking at the definition of hoard and I think you could definitely have one of optimizers, munchkins and power gamers.

[Vhaidara]

Mm, well, the game I mentioned I tried to DM, people said 'okay' then just dumped a whole load of optimised to hell homebrew characters. Probably an attempt to take advantage of my noobiness.
Anyway, I'm worried people may start thinking lowly of me if I take a few thoughts/scenes from a movie or whatever, since it's like saying I have no creativity.

Link to the thread? I went back through your history and didn't see anything you started in the past year for recruiting on these boards.

[Xsatra]

You could introduce them. Socializing with people face to face beats a computer screen any day.
If it's really not an option, mention in the OP to your game that you're new and players need to be gentle with you.
Chimming in with others that core only is a bad idea. Banning core is a better idea even.

[pwykersotz]

Mm, well, the game I mentioned I tried to DM, people said 'okay' then just dumped a whole load of optimised to hell homebrew characters. Probably an attempt to take advantage of my noobiness.
Anyway, I'm worried people may start thinking lowly of me if I take a few thoughts/scenes from a movie or whatever, since it's like saying I have no creativity.

Ah, if pride is on the line, that does make things difficult.

You could try something less obvious. (http://www.seventhsanctum.com/generate.php?Genname=quickstory)

[Deadline]

Mm, well, the game I mentioned I tried to DM, people said 'okay' then just dumped a whole load of optimised to hell homebrew characters. Probably an attempt to take advantage of my noobiness.
Anyway, I'm worried people may start thinking lowly of me if I take a few thoughts/scenes from a movie or whatever, since it's like saying I have no creativity.

You ran this game here in the forums, yes? Can you provide a link so that we can read over it and see if it provides insight on how to help you? It's possible that the homebrew wasn't overpowered, just sufficiently alien to you as to feel like it left you powerless.

And why are you worried what others think of you? If folks are bored with a game, they'll stop playing. Simple as that. And as has been mentioned numerous times already, stealing is a tried and true DM tradition. Steal it, dress it up differently, and most folks won't even know, or care so long as it's entertaining.

[Techmagss]

Link to the thread? I went back through your history and didn't see anything you started in the past year for recruiting on these boards.
Will do, incoming.


You could introduce them. Socializing with people face to face beats a computer screen any day.
If it's really not an option, mention in the OP to your game that you're new and players need to be gentle with you.
Chimming in with others that core only is a bad idea. Banning core is a better idea even.
Yeah, my friends really aren't into roleplaying games. It's sorta creepy to them.

Here's the thread (I dropped out and they have a new GM)
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?394438-Low-Level-3-5-No-Low-Magic
This is the post that really bugged the hell out of me and led to me killing it:
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=18711585&postcount=57
When I get a shed load of information like that, especially with a bunch of tables and graphs and information a new GM like me would be confused about, I have. A right to drop that game and get just a bit angry, no?

[(Un)Inspired]

Anyway, I'm worried people may start thinking lowly of me if I take a few thoughts/scenes from a movie or whatever, since it's like saying I have no creativity.

If they have fun playing through the scene they're unlikely to think lowly of you.

Besides, they're anonymous people on the internet, these are the last humans whose approval you should be worried about.

[Deadline]

Yeah I'm looking at the definition of hoard and I think you could definitely have one of optimizers, munchkins and power gamers.

Of course, but remember that context is important :smallbiggrin:. I don't think Techmagss considered the Optimizers, Munchkins, and Power Gamers to be treasured possessions, or really of any value at all. Which means that hoard probably doesn't apply here.

[(Un)Inspired]

Of course, but remember that context is important :smallbiggrin:. I don't think Techmagss considered the Optimizers, Munchkins, and Power Gamers to be treasured possessions, or really of any value at all. Which means that hoard probably doesn't apply here.

I wasn't saying he does.

I was suggesting a writer that needs saving by a party in a D&D campaign might.

Also, I'm justifying my grammatical mistake.

[Techmagss]

Updated the post, the one I made before this, with info.

[Deadline]

I wasn't saying he does.

I was suggesting a writer that needs saving by a party in a D&D campaign might.

Also, I'm justifying my grammatical mistake.

Of course, but let's take that and run with it some more (the horse isn't quite dead :smalltongue:). The story changes a bit here to "party must help a besieged leader (who is also a writer) and his legion of treasured followers (the hoard of optimizers, munchkins, and powergamers)". What, do you think, could be causing them so much trouble as to require the party's help? :smallwink:

[Tragak]

1) If you don't have a group yet and want a starting point to being people in with, then the advice you've already gotten is pretty good. Regarding the "creativity" of borrowing from books/movies: one of my favorite campaigns ended on essentially an Angel Season 4 note (a powerful mage sought to inflict an eternal night that would give an army of vampires free reign over the land) (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=18173475&postcount=8), and it was fantastic.

2) If you already have a group to play with but not a story idea: ask them what they want to play. If 4+ people agree to bounce ideas off of each other in good faith, then they WILL come up with something pretty quickly that they all like.

[(Un)Inspired]

Of course, but let's take that and run with it some more (the horse isn't quite dead :smalltongue:). The story changes a bit here to "party must help a besieged leader (who is also a writer) and his legion of treasured followers (the hoard of optimizers, munchkins, and powergamers)". What, do you think, could be causing them so much trouble as to require the party's help? :smallwink:

The writer's writer's block of course!

The cult of personality that has built up around the writer (who should be a dragon), made up of optimizers, munchkins and power games ( which are kobolds, the perfect race for both power gamers and for worshipping a dragon) is crumbling as the writer is no longer able to produce the wondrous tales that inspired the cult in the first place.

The writer is sending his cult out to commit atrocities with the hope that adventurers will try and stop them so that he can collect their exploits as a new story to further build his cult.

EDIT: wait, this is starting to get kinda cool...

[Techmagss]

The writer's writer's block of course!

The cult of personality that has built up around the writer (who should be a dragon), made up of optimizers, munchkins and power games ( which are kobolds, the perfect race for both power gamers and for worshipping a dragon) is crumbling as the writer is no longer able to produce the wondrous tales that inspired the cult in the first place.

The writer is sending his cult out to commit atrocities with the hope that adventurers will try and stop them so that he can collect their exploits as a new story to further build his cult.

EDIT: wait, this is starting to get kinda cool...
...Yes. Yes it is.
Gonna just check my sleight of hand skill... Oh, hey. A nat 20.

[pwykersotz]

The writer's writer's block of course!

The cult of personality that has built up around the writer (who should be a dragon), made up of optimizers, munchkins and power games ( which are kobolds, the perfect race for both power gamers and for worshipping a dragon) is crumbling as the writer is no longer able to produce the wondrous tales that inspired the cult in the first place.

The writer is sending his cult out to commit atrocities with the hope that adventurers will try and stop them so that he can collect their exploits as a new story to further build his cult.

EDIT: wait, this is starting to get kinda cool...

Find/Replace writer with Deity of Death and Secrets (probably Vecna) and let fly! Suddenly this just got legit.

[SiuiS]

I wanna be a DM, and I tried to DM a campaign on these very boards, but it got infested and overrun with optimisers, munchkins, power gamers and the like. Thusly, I'm thinking about just trying to make it Core-Only-could help. However, I've been thinking for a while, but I just can't get my head around a suitable story- I'm a decent writer, yet no matter how hard I think or how much autocorrect I use, I can't think of ideas for a story or script or whatever. Can I get some help?

The trick to really fab ideas is a very thorough knowledge of the rules so you know how to break them properly. The best DMs are optimizers and munchkins.

I suggest one of three things; tell people straight to their face "this is a very new thing for me, please keep your power level down, please, and be gentle"; play a game system that lends itself to what you want instead of D&D 3.5; roll with anything and everything the players do, never say no, and turn everything back on them.

The first is easiest. "Hey guys! I'm new, and here's what I think; keep your attack bonus down to maybe +2/level, try not to get your damage bonus higher than a few sword swings, and try to keep utility options limited; I would rather have fun detailing an epic struggle to scale a waterfall than have you fly over it, okay? :)".

The second is also easy but requires startup. Dungeon world is described as "everything you expected D&D to be before you say down to play", and has a free SRD online. It is probably perfect for you. Another is FATE, which lets you make characters and then collaborate on the story without worrying about a lot of hard-code rules. It lets freeform ideas manifest well.

The third is the hardest. It requires being clever, mentally nimble, a good memory, high adaptability and imagination. And you'll ne'er feel ahead of the curve; I'm in two games now and I occasionally poke my head in elsewhere. I routinely think "damn! That's brilliant! I never would have thought of that!", but that's okay because I can still use it, so long as I do it right.

Heck, I just watched The Dark Crystal, and the whole time I was thinking about how to file off the serial numbers because this is an awesome game idea seed! Like, how did this happen? How did the mystics and skeksis become separate in the first place? How has skeksis culture ravaged the world? Is it all just the tainted crystal? Why is there a crystal at all?

Imagine this in a 3.0 setting. The cycle of life, death and life is constant but often violated; undeath, soul destruction, other aberrations of nature. Some wise order of mystic kings solidify the cycle of life, death and nature into a sovereign crystal; the physical mechanism of the incarnum cycle. Every grand conjunction, so many thousands of years, the aligned forces of the multiverse empower the crystal and kickstart the process, exploding out, and FORCING death and rebirth. Civilizations are leveled, and their soul energy is thrust into the appropriate otherworld as the heavens and Hell's are emptied of petitioners and larvae, flooding the world with the recycled incarnum.

Eventually, one of the wise kings (now immortal from their control over this life/death/rebirth cycle, through owning the crystal) grows cynical and jaded. Why is it so valuable that everything be recycled? Is not the spirit and passion of the individual worth more than the potential to refresh? Is it truly good to mass murder everyone and force them to reincarnate, instead of letting things occur as they would? Is it good just because it's natural? That's a fallacy! Surely, the hands of the wise, the forces of a potent mind could, nay, should allow one to break free of the cycle! The crystal must be destroyed!

But it can't be. It is the same natural forces, just changed. Destruction, the sundering of the crystal, changes it again. The wise are split into their wisdom and their hubris — the naturalistic mystics who understand that all things must die for life to matter, and the gnarled, stone-hard skeksis who know that the force of Will is more powerful even than the progression of natural cycles.

The final conjunction has come. Unless you, players, as the last gelflings can repair the fracture, heal the crystal, then at this the final grand conjunction, all will be lost; the prime wil shake loose from the flow of time and trap everyone in a world where the skeksis rule eternal as all suffer in timelessness and despair, without hope for their souls to regrow or renew.

[Deadline]

This is the post that really bugged the hell out of me and led to me killing it:
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=18711585&postcount=57
When I get a shed load of information like that, especially with a bunch of tables and graphs and information a new GM like me would be confused about, I have. A right to drop that game and get just a bit angry, no?

Drop the game? Sure. Get angry? I can't quite figure out why you would, and as such I can't agree that it's justified on your part.

Try just a Core game, and ask the players to take it easy on you. Maybe even ask for a low optimization game. You could even restrict it to just Tier 3 classes and power level.


The writer's writer's block of course!

The cult of personality that has built up around the writer (who should be a dragon), made up of optimizers, munchkins and power games ( which are kobolds, the perfect race for both power gamers and for worshipping a dragon) is crumbling as the writer is no longer able to produce the wondrous tales that inspired the cult in the first place.

The writer is sending his cult out to commit atrocities with the hope that adventurers will try and stop them so that he can collect their exploits as a new story to further build his cult.

EDIT: wait, this is starting to get kinda cool...

Ooh, make it an Illumian Bard instead of a Dragon. And he's actually pulling his stories and inspiration from the reality around him to craft a powerful utterance or somesuch. Words made into reality and all that.

Edit - I'd just like to point out to Techmagss that this is shaping into a story and plot idea based on a mis-chosen word. We just did the grammatical equivalent of tripping and falling into plot! See, the ideas are everywhere! :smallbiggrin:

[Techmagss]

Second in command is a Dragonwraught Kobold named Nun-Nun who is completely celibate, confused and generally innocent, yet is powerhoused to all hell by Templates augmentations and that will rip through the party with sheer force if they're not careful.

Speaking of innocent, I just came up with a trap that is so devious that it'll make everyone cry.
Thanks for the help!

[Threadnaught]

All of the advice so far seems to be in line with what I'd say. Rip off as much as possible.


Some players who have either experienced what you're currently ripping off, or something similar are likely to pick up on it. It's hilarious when you steal from one source and a player accuses you of stealing from another. I'm too lazy to create my own original stories, ever since I was suspected of ripping off some anime I'd never seen before.

Current Campaign I'm using only existing Adventures and my own totally original... Oh god, I'm ripping off Independence Day. :smallsigh:

[Deadline]

Current Campaign I'm using only existing Adventures and my own totally original... Oh god, I'm ripping off Independence Day. :smallsigh:

*Dwarven Griffon Pilot climbs up on a Far Realms flying machine and punches a gribbly tentacle monster while shouting, "Welcome ta oerf!"*

One last thing to Techmagss. The post that you linked that upset you reads quite a bit different to me. You see a "power gamer" trying to "optimize" and "break your game". I see someone who is literally so excited at the prospect of getting to use homebrew in your game that they ask for more than they could possibly use in the hopes that they'll get to finally try some of it out. In other words, it looks like you got mad at someone because they were super excited to play in your game. So, as always, it's important not to make assumptions about motive over a written medium.

[endur]

I wanna be a DM, and I tried to DM a campaign on these very boards, but it got infested and overrun with optimisers, munchkins, power gamers and the like. Thusly, I'm thinking about just trying to make it Core-Only-could help. However, I've been thinking for a while, but I just can't get my head around a suitable story- I'm a decent writer, yet no matter how hard I think or how much autocorrect I use, I can't think of ideas for a story or script or whatever. Can I get some help?

If you are worried about optimization, I would go PHB-only and limit characters to 6th level or less ... combats will be much faster and there is minimal optimization at those levels.

I wouldn't worry about writing your own script ... use one of the published adventures, from a module, dungeon, adventure a week, pathfinder, or another source.

[Flickerdart]

If you are worried about optimization, I would go PHB-only and limit characters to 6th level or less ... combats will be much faster and there is minimal optimization at those levels.
Druid + Wildshape + Natural Spell.
Wizard + all the classic power spells (Web, Glitterdust, Haste, Rope Trick, Fly, etc)
Cleric + Animate Dead.

Minimal whatnow?

[HyperDunkBarkly]

honestly, I'd play a game with a new DM...and I'd just bring a beguiler or a knight to it. they're my favorite classes anyway.

[theUnearther]

I would like to cast another vote in favour of stealing shamelessly. Once you steal from enough sources it stops being "plagiarism" and becomes "research". My suggestion: mash-up various plots by literally just mashing them up. Go read, let's say, Hamlet, MacBeth and King Lear. All of it, not just the two or three quotes we all know. Surely a royal court would have enough people to run all these plots concurrently, no? Then you let the various casts interact with each other and with a bunch of players running amok, and lo and behold, originality! By which I mean, impredictability, which is even better really.

And on the subject of optimizers, I would also suggest you outsource that. If you don't feel up to the task of judging them, add to the recruitment post that they must abide by whatever power level restrictions you want, and they must post their expected character progressions on this side, so that the playground can judge them and say "yeah, this abides by the stipulations, carry on" or "nononono, this guy is trying to pull a fast one", or even negotiate and barter with the prospective player on your behalf until they make an acceptable character (or drop out). I'd bet you wizards against monks that there are lots of people here who could and would do this, if prompted. This forum is pretty good on that, generally.

[HyperDunkBarkly]

another augment to the shameless thievery is to adopt the magnet poetry method.

literally take chunks of quests and sort them into 1) Quest Type 2)Quest Target and 3) Quest Region. then assign numbers to the options you compiled into the lists. roll a die to pick one, and slap it together piece by piece. you can also stack layers of this.

you could have your players setting out to 1) Rescue the 2) Ancestral Mountain Lion of 3) Clarksville, with a side quest thrown in to 1) Usurp the 2) Court Jester of 3) A frozen tundra ruled by sentient jello pudding cups.

the possibilities are freaking endless. and endlessly silly.

[j_spencer93]

Here's a story:

A decent writer is trapped by hoards of optimisers [sic], munchkins, power gamers and the like. The party has come together to rescue him.

ya this fits this board really well lol.
On a more serious note; songs, books, tv, games. i have used all to create good campaigns

[Mittur]

In my personal experience, I have a very hard time coming up with ideas if that's what I'm focusing on. But, when I try doing something else, something small and relatively insignificant will catch on, and then I'll have an idea. Just today I was messing around on some video games and got a unique idea that I will definitely be using next session. If you can come up with three or four of these unique ideas, then everything else will likely start falling into place.

My best advice is to not be active about coming up with ideas, per se, but instead keep it on the backburner at all times. Think about it, but don't focus on it. It becomes harder the more intently you try, but you never know when inspiration will strike.

Then again, I am speaking from personal experience, and my advice may not suit everyone. But that's what I do when stumped for ideas.

To make a note on optimization, my advice is to optimize your game to match the optimization of the players. If they're super optimized, make the enemies and encounters that way too. If they have cool fluff but little mechanical crunch power, then throw unoptimized but fun challenges at them. If the players are optimizing because they want a challenge, then that will fulfill their expectations. If they are optimizing purely because they want to "beat" you, then perhaps an out-of-character talk is necessary.

But perhaps most importantly, don't be hard on yourself if you mess up the first few times around. Be transparent with your players, and it's likely that they will understand your predicament. Keep trying to improve, and it will gradually become easier until it isn't really a big problem anymore.

[SiuiS]

Will do, incoming.


Yeah, my friends really aren't into roleplaying games. It's sorta creepy to them.

Here's the thread (I dropped out and they have a new GM)
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?394438-Low-Level-3-5-No-Low-Magic
This is the post that really bugged the hell out of me and led to me killing it:
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=18711585&postcount=57
When I get a shed load of information like that, especially with a bunch of tables and graphs and information a new GM like me would be confused about, I have. A right to drop that game and get just a bit angry, no?

What the unholy god is that? I don't see a single actual piece of D&D anywhere in that list. Yes, that's okay to be angry about. You're a new DM, you didn't know to say 'no homebrew' and so that's what you got? Good goddess. That's enough to put someone off custom content for years.

I'm sorry mate.


Drop the game? Sure. Get angry? I can't quite figure out why you would, and as such I can't agree that it's justified on your part.

Because when trying to wiggle your toes in the shallow end of DMing, having to comb through some pretty tedious amounts of homebrew and try to actually understand what the hell you're looking at and what it means and what the ramifications are is pretty crap. This guy said 'I wanna take it slow' and was thrown in the deep end without floaties.

[quote]
Try just a Core game, and ask the players to take it easy on you. Maybe even ask for a low optimization game. You could even restrict it to just Tier 3 classes and power level.[/wiote]

Heck, try a 'only official rules' game! Not to insult homebrew – Lix Lorn in particular I recognize as doing good work! – but none of that was actually D&D. It was all custom stuff. That's rude.

[Kol Korran]

I wanna be a DM, and I tried to DM a campaign on these very boards, but it got infested and overrun with optimisers, munchkins, power gamers and the like. Thusly, I'm thinking about just trying to make it Core-Only-could help. However, I've been thinking for a while, but I just can't get my head around a suitable story- I'm a decent writer, yet no matter how hard I think or how much autocorrect I use, I can't think of ideas for a story or script or whatever. Can I get some help?

Hmmmm... The million gp question. There is no simple answer I think, different people drive inspiration from different places: Movies, TV shows, books, movies, music, real life events, news, history and so on.

With me, I start with having all kind of jumbled up ideas, of cool encounter ideas, themes to explore, maybe an interesting antagonist, mosnter, some place I'd like to explore and so on...

Whatever it is, it is then time to do some research. For example, some time ago I had a vague idea of "pirates, or sea faring adventures. Something like pirates of the Caribbean. Yeah, that sound like fun!" So I start reading a bit about sea voyage, watcing some films, reading some books on the matter (Many more than StormWrack) asking questions here and more...

As you expose your self to more material, more ideas come to you, and slowly you weave them into something bigger, more intricate, more whole, more interesting.

There is also the process of actively trying to incorporate stuff. Seeing something you think is fun, cool, and trying to think "Well, how do I incorporate THIS into my story". For example, I saw a great map of many islands and so on, used on some other campaign. But it included all kind of names and such. I decided to take it, have the map be my setting, and have certain features on it define things in my world! I love taking semi-random elements, and then try to wrap my head on how to include them, and what twists they would make in my campaign. Some of my best stuff came out of this!

Seek the story, don't just wit for it to come to you. Explore, delve and dig for info, experience, and the story will form.

Also, an important note: You don't need to have the whole shebang planned from the outset. In fact, it's better if you don't. Players will often mess up your "big plans". What I'd suggest is to have the general idea, the plans of the antagonist in broad strokes, and more detailed info of the CURRENT situation the PCs are facing. Maybe something semi detailed of likely progression, but that's it. Then let the players mess with things, and you'll be surprised by the amount of ideas that will cause. Often, when my players are making guess works and plans I come to think "Wow! That could be awesome!" And Adjust. You also adjust much according to what the players do, what they are interested, what they are not, and so on.

[prufock]

There are actually 2 questions in play here.

1) How do you come up with encounter, adventure, and campaign ideas as a DM.
2) How do you deal with optimizers breaking your game.

Let's examine #1 first. I'll use 2 examples of campaigns I'm currently or going to run. One is a massive, 1-21 level, epic campaign. The other is an E6 pirates game.

I guess the hardest part is the first. There are big categories that you can decide on, then narrow focus within that category. Want a war campaign? A local band delving into dungeons? Want a get-rich game? A roving monster destroying the countryside? And so on.

I generally start with a big picture (campaign) view first. It doesn't have to be anything too impressive yet, but should encapsulate what the party would be expected to do in this game. This generally begins as "the problem." What is the issue that the PCs are fighting against? Depending on the length of the campaign, this can be epic or local. Epic example: planar rifts are opening across the kingdoms, wreaking all kinds of havoc, and the PCs set out to fix it. Smaller example: you are kidnapped by slave-traders and must fight for freedom or leadership.

Then I drill down to smaller goals within that framework to form adventures. With the epic example, it's easy - a series of adventures, each focusing on a single planar rift to close. With the pirates game, it's more of a series of unfortunate events that happen to you that you must overcome.

Drilling down further, you get what scenes and encounters are involved in each adventure. For each adventure, you can ask "why is this?" and "what things could get in their way?" In the epic adventure, the rifts themselves are an obstacle, but also the monsters they release into the material plane, other groups trying to take advantage of this fact, and the source of the problem (BBEG) getting involved as well. For the pirates game, you have weather, captors, other pirates, the navy, sea monsters, shipwrecks, and various other setbacks.

The actual ideas should come from things you know. Don't be afraid to steal from other sources, just re-skin and change a few things. Most stories fit into a dozen or so basic tropes. You may also find that the PCs generate a lot of adventure ideas, campaign hooks, and paths of their own. Let them provide the clay while you shape it.

On to question 2.

Core-only won't help, as there is plenty of class imbalance in there. Some ideas, if you aren't comfortable with that power level:
1. Play low levels. With less feats to choose, smaller bonuses, and just less options in general, there is less to optimize. Start at level 1. Look into E6, where PCs never surpass level 6.
2. Ask for a particular tier (look up Tier List for Classes by JaronK) of character. If you want somewhat low power, feel free to say tier 3 or lower (higher numbers being lower tier, 1 is best) or even tier 4 or lower.
3. Ask your players, in a gentlemanly way, not to use cheap tricks and over-optimization.
4. Require review and approval of character builds so you can nix stuff too powerful for you.

Good luck!

[Deadline]

Because when trying to wiggle your toes in the shallow end of DMing, having to comb through some pretty tedious amounts of homebrew and try to actually understand what the hell you're looking at and what it means and what the ramifications are is pretty crap. This guy said 'I wanna take it slow' and was thrown in the deep end without floaties.

No, this guy said:

If you're using homebrew, tell me, please. If you're using anything that's not available online/from a reputable source, from SRD, please tell me and I'll consider it.

The player in question did exactly what the DM asked. And the players all offered to conform to the DMs altered wishes after the fact if he would stay and run a game. So no, I don't see a valid reason to be angry at the player. Sure, I get that Techmagss, as a new DM (especially new to the PbP section of this site), didn't realize what they were opening themselves for, but getting angry with people for doing what you asked them to do is pretty silly. :smalltongue: