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Mr. Mask
2015-02-04, 03:04 AM
Anyone put much thought into the technology and society of harpies or other avian creatures? Thought it might be a fun subject to discuss.


Do you have a specific avian creature of your own, or a take on harpies/other avians? Have you a picture of where their homes are, or what their society is like? Or how they get food? Or how and why the wage war?

Do you have any interesting ideas related to harpies?

Skaven
2015-02-04, 04:46 AM
I would imagine their dwellings would be much further spread out due to their increased mobility and need to spread their wings to fly.

I would also imagine they would build high, away from all the dangerous of the ground.

Consider ignoring all ground based doors all together: they wouldn't need / want doors where groundlings can get to them. Have a hatch on the roof or something.

goto124
2015-02-04, 05:05 AM
How do you open doors, hatches, windows, etc when you have wings and talons instead of hands? What about weapons?

Or did we assume winged humanoids?

Mr. Mask
2015-02-04, 05:10 AM
Well, if they have no hands, you'd hope they'd have a strong beak-like implement. Parrots manage some pretty impressive stuff with just their feet and beak (and birds will use their wings for some things). Making technology is probably easier with hands, though.

You can speculate in either direction, more or less. Lacking hands may mean the harpies would need human slaves, though.

Cazero
2015-02-04, 05:19 AM
Consider ignoring all ground based doors all together: they wouldn't need / want doors where groundlings can get to them. Have a hatch on the roof or something.

I would not go that far. I doubt an avian specie could carry heavy loads while flying (also see : swallows and coconuts), wich means they would still need cart for transportations of massive quantities of goods.
They are still likely to block ground access as much as possible. All of them might include elevators that can only be activated from the top.

Mastikator
2015-02-04, 06:01 AM
I can imagine their houses featuring landing balcony, with doors going straight into the air, completely inaccessible to someone who can't fly. Only having staircases and ladders indoors.

They would probably invent clothing that improve their flying ability, like having built in sticks to perhaps allow the harpy to lock their wings into place for longer glides without expending muscle strength.

They might even attach propellers on their backs for increased flying capacity, only using their wings for steering and generating lift. With clothes that protect against wind the high-tech harpies could reach flight speed similar to modern airplanes and would be able to stay airborne for hours longer than their primitive cousins.

Yora
2015-02-04, 06:09 AM
I have harpies which only have claws like bats, but no real hands, though with three fingers. Their technology is close to that of Neanderthals. They can make sharpened wood, crude leather, and simple sewing, but with their hands they just can't make anything much more sophisticated. They have a male to female ratio of 1:4 and males almost always stay with the village, so they are very rarely encountered by outsiders.

Mr. Mask
2015-02-05, 12:00 AM
Any thoughts on what weapons your harpies would use against enemies on the ground? Or against other flying harpy-like enemies? In the even of being wounded, what do you think harpies would do to survive the fall, or to get home?

JusticeZero
2015-02-05, 04:50 AM
Ravens use prehensile feet and their beak for complex manipulation.

Mr. Mask
2015-02-05, 05:19 AM
True. But at the same time, what takes a human a few seconds to do with hands, it seems to hake them a few minutes. That's not to say they don't have brilliant little minds--some people I know couldn't solve the puzzles they do.

Lord Raziere
2015-02-05, 05:48 AM
lets see, they probably wouldn't have stairs.

when you can just fly up and down everywhere, stairs become kind of redundant. the only way I'd see them implementing stairs is for the elderly or the wing-disabled to use. they'd probably consider anyone who can't fly as kind of like people in wheelchairs or something.

problem is, unless they have big flying beasts to transport things as well, they will need land animals to cart supplies around and thus would need to be ground-bound for that.

though its more plausible for their society to travel more and have knowledge of distant places. when you can fly around above trees and such, you can explore a lot more when you have a good view from a distance, not impeded by solid terrain and so on, and they're probably great mapmakers because they can just fly up, take a look from above, memorize it and then fly back down and draw it out. I imagine that it'd be hard for them to get lost or at least harder.

also, traversing up mountains is easy- just fly up- so they probably laugh at mountain climbers and don't consider going up mountains all that big of a deal.

in warfare, bomb drop tactics probably come about much earlier. just light a torch, fly up, drop it on a building you want burned, assuming the flame doesn't go out from the air friction...maybe use a lantern?
or just wait until dynamite is invented and use that. or, most simple, just pick up rocks and drop those. rain of rocks, no long archery training or complicated crossbow engineering needed, just gravity and stone.

also, their eyes would have to be real zoomy for flying, so they'd be good archers to.

all in all, if these people were in the same fantasy world with other races that can't fly, you have the potential for these guys to become very dangerous conquerors over everyone else, flight just grants them so many advantages all by itself that it both tactically makes them superior AND gives them a social darwinistic justification to consider themselves superior.

goto124
2015-02-05, 06:48 AM
also, their eyes would have to be real zoomy for flying, so they'd be good archers to.

'Wait, how exactly am I supposed to hold this bow? With my bird-wings? Squawk!'

:smalltongue:

The thought amused me. How do you think they might try to overcome the problem?

Feddlefew
2015-02-05, 07:48 AM
The thought amused me. How do you think they might try to overcome the problem?
Early birds had what amounted to two fingers and a thumb attached to their hand/wings, so I'd personally model any bird people after them. They might not have quite the manual dexterity humans have, but they'd be able to make and use simple tools.

Of course, when in flight there's nothing stopping them from just using their feat.

goto124
2015-02-05, 08:14 AM
Of course, when in flight there's nothing stopping them from just using their feat.

May I make a joke?

Special Feat for Avians:
Humanoid Hands
With this feat, your character will gain extra dexterity in 2 of its limbs, allowing it to manipulate and use tools and other objects as if they had human-like hands. If your creature had no limbs to begin with, it will grow 2 new ones. Any functions the limbs served beforehand, such as flight, will be retained and unchanged from this feat.

Milo v3
2015-02-05, 08:37 AM
May I make a joke?

Special Feat for Avians:
Humanoid Hands
With this feat, your character will gain extra dexterity in 2 of its limbs, allowing it to manipulate and use tools and other objects as if they had human-like hands. If your creature had no limbs to begin with, it will grow 2 new ones. Any functions the limbs served beforehand, such as flight, will be retained and unchanged from this feat.

Also (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/extra-item-slot). Whitetext

Segev
2015-02-05, 12:44 PM
One thing to keep in mind when considering dwellings: birds need a lot of room to spread their wings sufficiently to fly. So if they don't have stairs, they'll have large open spaces with large gaps in the floor/ceiling, as they would want to be able to jump down and glide to the next level or fly up through the opening without banging their wings on anything. They'd also need swooping room on the upper end so they can fly up and land safely.

They probably build big. Where primitive humans emphasized small buildings with walls to enclose, the harpy primitive society likely has roofs as the first, most important thing. They provide shelter. Then floors, to extend the landing area, though that would likely be a "catch-net" first, for storing things that don't balance well on perches. Walls would come later. Their predators largely come from below and above.

And in all cases, again, they build for big and expansive. That is, lots of open airspace for ease of maneuvering. To them, open air space is as important as open floor space is to people. Moreso, since they can't stop to delicately maneuver unless they're awkewardly hopping on floors or perches.

Mr. Mask
2015-02-05, 05:42 PM
Admittedly, there are a few birds who use enclosed houses they can't fly around in so well, so harpies might be fine with a more human-like house with a harpy-like entrance. Also, birds like parrots love to climb and are very good at it, so it may extent to harpies (where rather than stairs, they have ladders).

Ettina
2015-02-05, 07:31 PM
They have a male to female ratio of 1:4 and males almost always stay with the village, so they are very rarely encountered by outsiders.

Why? Virtually every species that has sexes is 50:50 (although some have differential death rates). What makes them the exception?

Mr. Mask
2015-02-05, 07:38 PM
Lions tend to have female-heavy populations, due to their species natural selection tendencies (their birthrates are about 50/50 gender-wise). In a civilized harpy society, I'm not sure why the males would all be dying (it might be a pretty savage form of civilization).

Solaris
2015-02-05, 07:44 PM
Why? Virtually every species that has sexes is 50:50 (although some have differential death rates). What makes them the exception?

I'd venture the guess that the root reason is due to the classical depiction of the harpy being female, with a possible explanation somewhere along the lines of a proto-eusocial superorganism. Multiple female harpies to a clutch cooperate with raising each others' hatchlings, and quite possibly they have lower fertility (maybe the first daughter is fertile, but the others aren't). It'd work for the same reason an ant colony does, though on a smaller scale.
There's also the possibility that they eat their mates after breeding to keep the male population down.

The fact that it doesn't work quite so well as the human method of raising children might explain why harpies aren't the master race.

Admiral Squish
2015-02-05, 08:10 PM
Have you ever seen bird-feet work? Particularly arboreal birds? It's like they've got four thumbs. The digits have really remarkable range of motion and in an intelligent species I suspect they would be quite capable manipulators. I could imagine having a wing-thumb-claw or two for the sake of clinging to things, or carrying things around the ground, but I think the vast majority of their manipulation ability would lie in their feet. Perhaps they were limited technologically by the fact they could only use one at a time while on the ground, but the real taking-off point for harpy tech would be some sort of stool, chair, or hang-bar, something that would allow them to lift both feet off the floor/perch and put them to work on whatever they're doing without worrying about balance.

The big problem with large harpy societies, in my mind, is how you get a civilization out of them. There might be bands of hunter-gatherers, but that doesn't really scream unified culture to me. There are a couple reasons why they probably wouldn't have that much in the way of civilization. The first is fire. You can't exactly start fires while perched up in trees, and you certainly wouldn't be able to start one one-handfooted. And if you think about it, so much of human development and human civilization has depended upon fire, it's hard to imagine a society without it. The other concern is the lack of a food surplus. In hunter/gatherer societies, everybody takes part in the hunting and gathering, because they typically can only provide enough food for themselves and a few elders, officials, and injured individuals. Without agriculture, aquaculture, or some other reliable source of abundant food, your society can't support specialists. No growth as a culture. They could have been uplifted by trade/violence with groundling, being exposed to more advanced technology, and, if they get good enough with it, they could use that to raid the groundlings for THEIR food surplus and be able to support specialists that way.

You know... I like the idea of a limited male population. In a lot of birds, it's the males who are all colorful and display-ariffic, sometimes even to the point where the males are less capable of survival. What if that's the case here? Like, the males are smaller, might more brightly colorful, and are considered the ideal of beauty. Of course, they're rubbish in combat, so males end up getting claimed by groups of females based on attractiveness, and end up being, essentially, very pretty house-husbands that take care of the roost, the hatchlings, and the equipment, while the wives are out hunting and raiding.

Acacia OnnaStik
2015-02-05, 08:36 PM
I'd make them nomadic- migratory, you might say. Their dwellings are mostly temporary roosts, and their personal possessions are easy to carry in their dexterous feet. They forage on the way, a practice that's earned them a very bad and not entirely deserved reputation for thieving- agricultural communities generally hate the sight of them.

In a high-magic setting, I'd give them flying caravans.

Mr. Mask
2015-02-05, 08:37 PM
North American eagles and some prey birds come to mind as cases of females being larger. With hyenas, this is generally to avoid the males eating the young, which would imply the males being pretty savage in harpies--but I don't think that is the case with eagles. The male has to do a lot of the hunting, and have been witnessed feeding their young, which suggests strong maternal instincts. Maybe they're bigger to protect their young from predators more effectively? It has even been suggested the male being smaller has advantages, like swifter hunting.

Chairs shouldn't be too challenging for bird persons, and making nest-like camp fires up in rocky areas would be easy. Fire might be awkward, as it can be pretty awkward even with human hands to get a fire going. Stuff like rolling a stick in the palms of your hands might be too complex for bird appendages, which could be a problem for early harpy society.

Feddlefew
2015-02-06, 02:27 AM
The reason female birds are generally larger is because they need the extra volume to accommodate their reproductive organs, since egg-to-parent size is relatively large.

Mr. Mask
2015-02-06, 02:46 AM
Do you mean specifically with North American eagles and certain birds of prey, or for birds overall?

Brother Oni
2015-02-06, 03:19 AM
I doubt an avian specie could carry heavy loads while flying (also see : swallows and coconuts), wich means they would still need cart for transportations of massive quantities of goods.

Depends. Are they African harpies or European ones? :smalltongue:


'Wait, how exactly am I supposed to hold this bow? With my bird-wings? Squawk!'

:smalltongue:

The thought amused me. How do you think they might try to overcome the problem?

Modified bows, much like Matt Stutzman:


http://www.paralympic.org/sites/default/files/images/120831162816015_matt+stutzman.mainpicture_612.jpg

While he's using a modern olympic recurve compound bow, many of his techniques could be adapted for an avian species with no hands. They would have a lower cap on their draw weight though, since teeth aren't as strong as hands.

Mr. Mask
2015-02-06, 05:10 AM
Couldn't they secure the bowstring to a strap on their bodies, for higher draw-weights? If they have beaks, I wonder what kind of draw-weight they could manage.

Brother Oni
2015-02-06, 05:37 AM
Couldn't they secure the bowstring to a strap on their bodies, for higher draw-weights? If they have beaks, I wonder what kind of draw-weight they could manage.

I wasn't aware that there was a version of harpies with beaks - all versions I've heard of had human heads/faces, with the only variation being either a bird body or a female human torso.

As for securing the bowstring to a strap, that's certainly possible, but then the mechanics of securing the strap in the first place and releasing it at full draw, becomes an issue.

Mr. Mask
2015-02-06, 05:48 AM
Oh, sorry. Was thinking of other potential avian peoples who are sometimes depicted with beaks.

It's a good point with the body strap. I was figuring they could rig a system with two straps. One is over the bowstring, and the other is the catch/release strap. When you want to fire, you catch the two straps together and push with your foot, then release the second strap. At least, that's the idea.

Cazero
2015-02-06, 06:10 AM
Couldn't they secure the bowstring to a strap on their bodies, for higher draw-weights? If they have beaks, I wonder what kind of draw-weight they could manage.

It's not a question of weight grasping, it's a simple question of weight ratio. :tongue:
Since merchandise doesn't migrate, they would need lots and lots of strapping and trained carrying teams. Doable if you don't want to use land roads, but not really efficient compared to the wheel.
edit : wow, I didn't realise it was all about bows. Silly me.

Lord Torath
2015-02-06, 08:48 AM
When did Harpies loose their arms? They had arms in AD&D and 2E AD&D, and Rich's harpies have arms (https://s3.amazonaws.com/GiantInThePlayground_Wallpapers/NoEncounters_3360x2100.png) (top right).

Xanthian harpies are described as not having arms, but most others I've encountered have arms.

Segev
2015-02-06, 09:26 AM
It does vary, but I am more used to seeing the wings-only variety of upper-limbs for harpies. I, personally, find harpies with arms to start making me see "winged humans" rather than "harpies." That could just be me, though.

Solaris
2015-02-06, 09:47 AM
When did Harpies loose their arms? They had arms in AD&D and 2E AD&D, and Rich's harpies have arms (https://s3.amazonaws.com/GiantInThePlayground_Wallpapers/NoEncounters_3360x2100.png) (top right).

Xanthian harpies are described as not having arms, but most others I've encountered have arms.

That's because Piers Anthony knows his Greek mythology (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harpy).
Harpies having arms is a new thing.

Brother Oni
2015-02-06, 12:02 PM
When did Harpies loose their arms? They had arms in AD&D and 2E AD&D, and Rich's harpies have arms (https://s3.amazonaws.com/GiantInThePlayground_Wallpapers/NoEncounters_3360x2100.png) (top right).

Xanthian harpies are described as not having arms, but most others I've encountered have arms.

The Yet Another Fantasy Gamer Comic harpies also don't have arms (they're also bare chested, so not safe for this forum), matching the classic depictions of harpies.

The harpies from the 1963 Jason and the Argonauts film (http://www.harryhausen.com/) had arms though.


I, personally, find harpies with arms to start making me see "winged humans" rather than "harpies." That could just be me, though.

I also find them more generic 'winged humanoid' than 'harpies with arms', but I tend to have a fairly traditional view of folklore.

Segev
2015-02-06, 12:27 PM
Interestingly, Sirines were described in greek myth alternately to resemble mermaids or harpies. AD&D 1e actually didn't have an entry for sirines, but noted that harpies near shorelines are often called "sirines."

I think it was the 2e AD&D Monstrous Manual that introduced the "sexy blue-skinned woman" sirine to D&D. I don't recall if 3e ever got that particular monster.

I also think this conflation is why D&D harpies have the charming song ability; I don't recall that being classic to Greek myth.

Xanth's harpies actually have no male of the species, IIRC; they use magic to charm guys (if the guy is lucky, I think they're not always concerned about him being even tacitly willing) into serving as a fertilizing agent. They are, as well, noted to be almost universally foul and hideous and unpleasant to even be vaguely downwind of. So...yeah.

A harpy civilization would need to determine if they are more bird-like or human-like in predisposition; birds do tend to be about as foul (no pun intended), given their druthers, as Xanth's harpies. They use their own excrement as a cooling agent, and they literally do not have the ability to "hold it in." That's why their stains on our cars are so common. They just go whenever the process gets to that end.

This would have...influence...on any civilization of such creatures. Would they consider it gross, or normal and at worst mildly inconvenient? How would they deal with it in either case? I know it's not something that's necessarily "fun" to think about, but it would genuinely have a major impact on the shape and culture and even architecture and tools of their society.

Lord Torath
2015-02-06, 01:14 PM
Xanth's harpies actually have no male of the species, IIRC; they use magic to charm guys (if the guy is lucky, I think they're not always concerned about him being even tacitly willing) into serving as a fertilizing agent. They are, as well, noted to be almost universally foul and hideous and unpleasant to even be vaguely downwind of. So...yeah.Not quite true. Male Harpies are just incredibly rare, and most of them were killed in the Goblin-Harpy wars. At least one exists, though as Hardy Harpy married Glory Goblin and had Gloha, the Goblin-Harpy girl.

WarKitty
2015-02-06, 02:14 PM
If you wanted to have a more advanced society...

Orchards would probably be the way to go agriculturally, rather than traditional fields. Herding should also be viable, as would raising small birds for food. Fishing and aquaculture would also be acceptable.

Most likely they'd still be ground-based, as it's just easier to build on the ground. Though buildings would probably be taller than other societies, most likely taking on a pyramidal structure, since the problems of getting materials up higher would be gone. This should allow things to go on pretty well as normal. One difference might be that the idea for wind power would likely occur to them much earlier.

goto124
2015-02-07, 01:06 AM
They use their own excrement as a cooling agent, and they literally do not have the ability to "hold it in." That's why their stains on our cars are so common. They just go whenever the process gets to that end.

This would have...influence...on any civilization of such creatures. Would they consider it gross, or normal and at worst mildly inconvenient?

'Before you go into Harpy Queendom, be warned- wear a mask and a good pair of boots. It's really smelly, and there's bird poop everywhere.'

'Okay, maybe you don't need the mask. But bring the boots, it's a bit more poop than you might be comfortable with.'

Acacia OnnaStik
2015-02-07, 02:16 AM
This would have...influence...on any civilization of such creatures. Would they consider it gross, or normal and at worst mildly inconvenient? How would they deal with it in either case? I know it's not something that's necessarily "fun" to think about, but it would genuinely have a major impact on the shape and culture and even architecture and tools of their society.

Most bird poop doesn't actually have much of an odor, as I understand it. Major buildups of it are still a health hazard, but I'd imagine harpies could figure that out. So they probably sweep it away from time to time, maybe to use as fertilizer.

They probably have a lot less instinctive squick about it than other societies- having a little poo on the floor wouldn't ruin a party for them the way it would for us. This probably doesn't help their popularity among non-harpies.

Mr. Mask
2015-02-07, 07:17 AM
Depends if the harpies digestive and intestinal systems are more similar to humans or birds, I guess. Even with bird-like habits, there mightn't be a lot of culture shock from human societies. Many of them did not have very good standards for waste management, and the harpy system would likely be similar to one of theirs.


Warkitty: I'm not sure that harpies would be much better at getting materials up high. This can already be done pretty well through scaffolding, and anything that can't be easily lifted through that probably can't be lifted via flying.



I sort of wonder how interaction would go between harpies, and dwarves, and mermaids.

WarKitty
2015-02-07, 08:04 AM
Warkitty: I'm not sure that harpies would be much better at getting materials up high. This can already be done pretty well through scaffolding, and anything that can't be easily lifted through that probably can't be lifted via flying.

You'd be seeing it more commonly, is what I was thinking. So regular homes might be taller, since there's no extra investment involved in building higher (unlike scaffolding, which

I would also imagine that devices to allow cooperation in lifting would be common.

Mr. Mask
2015-02-07, 08:42 AM
There would be less investment in building higher, in cases where the harpy's can ferry all the necessary goods up by flight. Something like a large plank of wood might be possible for two harpies... flying straight up is tricky for birds, but birds can manage impressive tricks. Placing it exactly where it needs to be wouldn't be easy, but you could get around it by placing long planks across sturdy points of the construction, to give a landing are you can more accurately adjust materials from. This only lets you alter the building from the top and the in side of it, though you could temporarily nail or weigh a plank in place and have it extend outwards so you can adjust things from the top and out side of the building. If harpies are good enough climbers, they might even be able to hang from the sides of buildings while working at them.

Personally, I figure they'd be more the sorts to build into the sides of cliffs, rather than worry about building skyscrapers.


Of course, the maximum height a harpy can build to will be the same for human engineers of the same skill and resources, as it is a matter of engineering and materials.

goto124
2015-02-07, 10:18 AM
If harpies are good enough climbers, they might even be able to hang from the sides of buildings while working at them.

I've seen birds IRL do this. Bird feet are wonderful (and sharp)!

Mr. Mask
2015-02-07, 10:25 PM
Yeah, that's what I was thinking. I've seen birds hang off the side of stuff just by their beak, solely for the fun of it. Harpies may well be able to do the same. They might build it hand/leg holds, to improve their ability. Of course, without hands, then climbing while building stuff probably isn't very feasible. Climbing without the beak will be pretty hard.

Solaris
2015-02-07, 11:33 PM
I imagine they could use the other claw and the flapping wings to counteract gravity's pull at least somewhat. They wouldn't be great craftsmen in the air, but they might be able to get at least crude work done.

Mr. Mask
2015-02-07, 11:40 PM
Mm, that sounds right. Unfortunately, at that rate you're going back to scaffolds, so you can do more proper work. Of course, Harpy scaffolding can be a lot more minimalistic, and might jut be platforms nailed into the side of the structure temporarily.

Spriteless
2015-02-07, 11:42 PM
I can imagine bird-people weaving giant basket nest type structures rather than grabbing planks of wood. Perhaps with walls cemented with feces like real birds do, or muddy cement or strips of soddy grass if they are more sanitary. They would also be able to build cages for domesticated animals (birds, giant insects, stirges, hippogriffs for heavy lifting, whatever). Actually, you could build a cage and put in something that doesn't fly in there and it would be stuck.

So weaving -> shelter -> bird cages -> domesticated animals. The harpies of the monster manual could attract animals with their song and add them to their 'collection.'
There is also chemistry, perhaps augmented by all the poisons you can milk from captured monsters. Avarial have glass as hard as steel, which falls under either chemistry or magic.
There is also also medicine, perhaps enhanced by access to a local anesthetic from milking giant mosquitoes.
There is also also also magic. Aarakocra already have ties to elemental plane of air. Some harpies have a siren song. How much does magic shape your setting's humanoid settlements, and how much more or less does it effect monstrous humanoids?

There is also trade of any of the above. If harpies have an easier time catching birds, then they can sell feathers or pets for what they can't make. If they've got a settlement of people with a compatible alignment/culture and different body specialization nearby to trade with.

WarKitty
2015-02-08, 08:13 AM
Weaving would also allow trapping, especially of fish. I would imagine an Avian civilization would favor hill and valley terrain, especially along rivers. Fishing would be viable, and trees and vines can be grown in land that might not be as suitable for traditional agriculture. There's also standard herding, as many human societies in hilly areas did. There would be no reason harpies couldn't raise, say, goats - though they'd be unlikely to ever develop the ability to digest milk.

Mr. Mask
2015-02-08, 08:16 AM
Harpies are part human, so part mammal. So it just depends on how mammal they are as to whether they digest milk.

Solaris
2015-02-08, 09:20 AM
They're often explicitly described as having mammaries, so I'd say they'd probably be able to digest milk at least as well as humans do. They may lack our widespread neotenous adaptation to be able to digest it well into adulthood, but there's no reason to assume they can't digest milk at all just because they're partly bird.

goto124
2015-02-08, 09:39 AM
If harpies have mammaries, I hooe their young have human mouths too. Not beaks.

Silus
2015-02-09, 06:13 AM
When did Harpies loose their arms? They had arms in AD&D and 2E AD&D, and Rich's harpies have arms (https://s3.amazonaws.com/GiantInThePlayground_Wallpapers/NoEncounters_3360x2100.png) (top right).

Xanthian harpies are described as not having arms, but most others I've encountered have arms.

Personally I think it all depends on the breed/species of Harpy.

http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/skindeep/images/a/a3/AugustRQ9.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20110818221620

Got a homebrew setting I've been working on where Harpies are rather prevalent in a "tribes are scattered all over the world and have integrated themselves in the local societies" kinda way. Okypetian are the default with the Allelean being an alternate racial version (subbing out some wielded weapon skill for fly speed and maneuverability).

Edit: Also, mono-sex, got that Asari anything-that-mates-with-a-Harpy-results-in-a-harpy-with-some-physical-characteristics-of-the-father thing.

Segev
2015-02-09, 09:10 AM
One thing that is not commonly depicted in fantasy, despite the medieval flair it often gets, is that floors - even in fancy castles - often were "strewn with rushes." In other words, they scattered straw on their floors. This was precisely because they weren't terribly clean in their habits wrt what they threw on them, and their dogs were not house trained.

Given that harpies are half-bird, and birds like nests, it would make a lot of sense for their floors to be mostly just collected and matted straw and twigs. They really wouldn't care about stuff - including excrement - falling on it; just clear out the old and pile on new. Heck, if they had open bottoms that just relied on weaving to hold together, they could literally push the old down and out as they replaced it with new.