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Tormsskull
2007-04-05, 08:21 AM
Hi everyone,

I might be getting into a new campaign coming up shortly. The people I am gaming with (have been gaming with them for a very long time) are mostly convinced that Wizards are horrible. In their defense, we play mostly low levels and when I am the DM most campaigns feature a lot of spellcaster persecution.

What I am attempting to do is introduce a wizard (I'll be a player this time around) who can sort of showcase some of the positive aspects of the Wizard class even at low levels.

I'm not looking for a build (god I hate that word), but just general suggestions on what feats/skills/etc to take. I want to make sure to stress that I am not trying to make some incredibly powerful character that overshadows the others, I simply want a wizard that is effective.

Some general restrictions:
-Core only
-Starting level is going to be 1 or 3, not sure yet.


My initial thoughts:
Human or elf, not sure.
Take a bunch of Crafting feats (Scribe scroll free at level 1, Perhaps Craft Wondrous Item at level 3, etc.)

Ok, any suggestions?

Tengu
2007-04-05, 08:23 AM
Crowd control spells - sleep, grease, web, glitterdust.

its_all_ogre
2007-04-05, 08:24 AM
good dex and ray of enfeeblement.

Grey Paladin
2007-04-05, 08:31 AM
Sleep

My party decided to be chaotic stupid on me once and tried to kill me, I casted sleep, DC 16, killed them all, never played with that group again.

Maximize intelligence and DCs with all your feats and gold, all else matters not.

To handle sleep-immune stuff, color spray, to handle mind effect immune stuff, the much less over-powered Grease

Seriously, wizards are NOT bad at low levels, their lack of BAB is hardly felt as everyone have sucky AB at that level, and their spells end an otherwise challenging battles in ONE ROUND.

Roethke
2007-04-05, 08:34 AM
Illusions can be great, event at low-level, and allow a wizard some of the flexibility of a sorcerer. Color Spray, too, is a wonderful first level spell.

Seconded on the crowd-control. Particularly if you're in a dungeon, Web multiplies greatly in power. Didn't realize until recently the awesomeness of Glitterdust.

Not so sure on the crafting feats. A lot depends on the style of the campaign. I love wondrous items, but if you're going to be short on gold and/or downtime, it's a waste.

Spell Focus is okay, that +1 will have a small effect, but in the long run, it can be quite decent. If the campaign is short, (a few adventures), even a combat-oriented feat, like Point Blank Shot, can make your wizard useful, even when out of spells. at low levels, you're probably not all that far behind a rogue-archer in attack bonus.



The old standby, Improved Initiative, shouldn't be overlooked. Being able to either A) Cast First or B) Duck & Cover first, should really improve survivability, if that's recurring problem for wizards.

Morgan_Scott82
2007-04-05, 08:42 AM
Taking advantage of scribe scroll is a good way to increase the wizards contributions at low levels since his otherwise small compliment of spells won't last him through the adventuring day. As its almost universally the path of greatest power I would suggest you focus on spells that increase the effectiveness of your party through debuffs and save or suck spells. Grease stands out as a great example on the 1st level wizard/sorcerer list, it can make you the party rogue or ninja's new best friend since everyone with fewer than 5 ranks in balance loses their dex bonus to AC. Ray of Enfeeblement is another solid first level spell and can put a serious crimp in the style of any melee focused opponents you should face. Beyond those, Shield and Mage armor are fundamental defensive spells.

If I think of any further advice I will be sure to post it here.

its_all_ogre
2007-04-05, 11:14 AM
personally i would not bother with crafting feats.
grab spell focus in two schools you are mostly going to use or in only one and then imp initiative. if your starting at level 3 then grab all 3.
specialising is a great idea if the game will be staying in low levels, lose evocation, but not necro (RoE).
make sure the spell focus feats are in schools that allow saves, necro is a poor choice at low levels as RoE is the best low level spell and allows no save anyway, most have no saves or touch range so avoid them.

Tormsskull
2007-04-05, 05:28 PM
personally i would not bother with crafting feats.

We generally play in world without magi-marts, so getting exactly the item that you want can be very difficult. That in mind, would you still say that the crafting feats aren't worth it?

Teloric
2007-04-05, 09:08 PM
Our group recently started a campaign and I haven't roleplayed a Wizard in about 20 years. My character is up to level 2 now, and my selection of spells has proven to be really good as of our last adventure. He can cast 4 level 1 spells at this time, and they are:

1. Grease - as mentioned, provides battlefield control, makes the bad guys fall down and/or flat-footed giving the party fighters better odds at beating them.
2. Sleep - great for crowd control on those low level bad guys. Even a poor roll on the dice will usually put a couple of them to sleep, making your battle easier. And it does no damage should you desire to question your captives...
3. Color Spray - much shorter range than Sleep, but makes a good backup attack spell if you need it. Again, unconcious or blind enemies are easier to deal with.
4. Mage Armor - it may not protect as well as Shield, but it protects for hours per level. If you can cast it and get through a couple of battles, it's well worth it.

Other than the spellcasting, try playing your Wizard very defensively. I use Total Defence if I'm caught in melee, and I try not to cast more than one spell per encounter, with the exception of Mage Armor, unless it is an emergency. So far, so good. If you're in the backfield and have nothing better to do, try shooting that light crossbow at the enemies...

Kel_Arath
2007-04-05, 09:21 PM
hehe, everyone is giving spell help, on that note, buy scrolls (if starting level 3) for more versatility in spellbook (copy them). but make it a halfling, with a sling. +1AC and +2 to hit, never bad, also the dex bonus doesnt hurt

Tellah
2007-04-05, 09:31 PM
We generally play in world without magi-marts, so getting exactly the item that you want can be very difficult. That in mind, would you still say that the crafting feats aren't worth it?

I disagree strongly with its_all_ogre; crafting feats are an excellent investment, generally. Craft Ring isn't so hot, and if you're getting to higher levels it's best to skip out on Craft Wand and go straight for Craft Staff (unless your DM allows the PHBII re-training rules). Brew Potion is better for Clerics and Druids than for Wizards. Craft Wondrous Item, however, is absolute gold, since it's such a catch-all. Crafting magical items is a great way to exceed the Wealth By Level guidelines if your DM is carefully meting out treasures by the book, and in a world without shops of magical items, it's nearly essential.

I'd also like to echo Morgan_Scott82 in encouraging you to make the most out of Scribe Scroll. Use it to make scrolls of the essential utility spells, such as knock, levitate, and jump. The best use of a wizard at low levels is not to make him into Gandalf, single-handedly doling out generous dollops of death to the ugly creatures all around you, but to make an effective problem-solver of him. Make sure that when the DM gives you a puzzling situation, you have just the right spell to cut through his Gordian knot.

A final thought: do not be a Pokemon master. Do not try to catch 'em all. Only spend the time and money to scribe spells you will cast multiple times into your spellbook--if you'll only cast it three times in your career, buy three scrolls. Trying to add every spell in the game to your spellbook is an easy and very common way to go poor and make your wizard seem weak by comparison.

Matthew
2007-04-08, 05:20 PM
An Elf Wizard (or Enchanter) with Sleep and Charm Person is fairly reliable at Level 1, in my opinion.

Raistlin1040
2007-04-08, 05:29 PM
Let me see...

Good 0 level spells ((In order of usefulness)
Detect magic, Read magic, disrupt undead, and mage hand

Good 1st level spells
Magic Missile, Mage Armor, Charm Person, Color Spray, Silent Image, Disguise Self, Enlarge Persone, Alarm.

Good 2nd level spells
Scorching Ray, Invisibility, Mirror Image, Alter Self, Levitate, Spider Climb, See Invisibility, Knock, Darkvision.

As for feats, here are some good ones.
Spell Focus (Whatever)
Spell Penetration
If you are a human either take Combat Casting or a Spell Focus. Then instead of Spell Focus (Whatever) take Greater Spell Focus (Whatever)

Assuming you have an 18 INT, max ranks in these skills
Concentration
Spellcraft
Decipher Script
Knowledge (Arcana)
Knowledge (The Planes)
Knowledge (Religion or Dungeoneering.)

JaronK
2007-04-08, 05:58 PM
In all core, Human is probably the strongest Wizard choice, though Halfling and Gnome are both worth considering.

The best spells have all been mentioned... Sleep and Colorspray are viscious attack spells, and you can always weild a Scythe (remember, you don't need proficiency for a Coup De Gras). Grease is great, and Mage Armour lasts a long time even at level 1.

Item crafting feats can be wonderful, especially Craft Wonderous Item. Keep scrolls of all your utility spells... Knock and the like. No sense memorizing them.

JaronK

Bryn
2007-04-08, 06:03 PM
Make sure you read The Logic Ninja's Guide to Wizards: Being Batman (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18500), if you haven't already. That covers pretty much anything about building an effective Wizard.

Tor the Fallen
2007-04-08, 06:10 PM
Gray elf gives a +2 int, but hurts str and con. Gnome gives a bonus on illusion DCs, which makes that color spray all the better, as well as boosting con.

High dex is good for landing those rays, and ray of enfeeblement, when properly metamagic'd, is good at all levels.

Deopending on the amount of down time your DM is willing to give you, crafting can be excellent. Wonderous items help out the whole party, wands are a great way of storing many useful, low level utility spells, like detect magic, knock, etc.

Tor the Fallen
2007-04-08, 06:14 PM
Also, for -3 to all physical stats, you can boost all mental stats by +2.

Knowledge skills are invaluable. Make sure you max concentration, spellcraft and knowledge: arcana. Then, depending on the campaign, take knowledges that will be useful. Local is good for humanoids and city specific stuff, dungeoneering is good for knowing about underground hazards, nature is great for just about every low level encounter: animals, monstrous humanoids, fey, and vermin.

Religion is good for knowing about undead, the planes for outsiders. Both of those are better at the higher levels, as the chance of encountering many outsiders is low at low levels, simply because of most outsider's CR.

Raum
2007-04-08, 07:34 PM
Even without "magic-marts" as you put it, I wouldn't spend more than a couple feats on crafting...probably Craft Wondrous Item and Craft Rod. You (and other members of your party) can use several items from each category. I would talk to your DM first, if you're not going to have a significant amount of downtime for crafting it's not worth burning the feats.

Other feats to consider...Extend Spell (one of the more useful metamagic feats), Spell Focus (in your primary offensive school), and Improved Initiative (it never hurts to act sooner). Of course you'll also want any prerequisite feats for PrCs you plan on entering.

As for first level spells, Mage Armor will be your primary defensive spell until you can make yourself some bracers...extend it so it lasts longer. Grease and Obscuring Mist are your better low level battlefield control spells. Color Spray is your best offensive spell (it doesn't have Sleep's HD limit so will be effective longer) and Ray of Enfeeblement is your best debuff. Pick up Truestrike if you plan on using rays often. Enlarge Person is your best buff spell. Pick spells based on how you want to play your wizard...but if you're trying to showcase your effectiveness, concentrate on the battlefield control and debuff spells.

Lemur
2007-04-08, 08:57 PM
I'd stay away from taking "a bunch" of crafting feats. Craft Wondrous Item should set you for a fair amount of stuff, and is generally worth the feat. Scribe Scroll should give you a fair amount of distance at low levels anyway.

Stat priorities for wizards are generally Int-Con-Dex. If you're using pointbuy, don't be afraid to max your Int, or at least get as close as you're comfortable with. Human is probably your best bet. Gnome probably isn't a bad choice, but I personally don't like the assigned flavor to the short races, so I don't have much experience with them.

People have already mentioned most of the good spells already. Since you get all 0 level spells, picking them out isn't a concern, but knowing which ones to memorize is still useful.

Daze can be useful at low levels against single person encounters, since they can't act while the rest of the party beats them up. Like sleep, it's usefulness decays as you level up.

Prestidigitation is fun, usually so much that it weighs out any reduced combat effectiveness you might face as a result of memorizing one.

Detect magic is always good to have around.

At low levels, oil is your friend. Setting things on fire is so simple a commoner could do it, and it's a good way to be effective after you've depleted your first level spells. A decent trick is using prestidigitation to light the fire, and then tossing additional flasks at your burning target as necessary.

Core only doesn't give you a lot of prestige class options. If you're not likely to go very far into high levels, shooting for archmage probably isn't worth it. Loremaster is a decent choice, but you'll do fine without it if you don't like the prerequisites. If you do want to go for Loremaster, taking Skill Focus in a knowledge skill earlier rather than later is generally more beneficial.