Its all fun and games until someone gets the Tarrasque

[Judge_Worm]

By playing around with various templates and spells, and the Tarrasque, I noticed some neat options for players and DM's alike.

Incarnate construct dustform Tarrasque
A strength of 49, 48 hit die and cr 11. Just add 4 levels of fighter, choose power attack, improved bull rush, and shock trooper for your bonus feats and increase str by 1. Now it's cr15 with a str modifier of +20, 52d8 hit die, one of the best martial feats, and power attack (remember it has +60 to hit).

Ice Assassin of a Tarrasque
For the low low low price of 20,000gp of powdered diamond, 5,000 xp, and a ninth level spell slot, a young enterprising wizard can have a pet Tarrasque. Yes, you can control what is functionally the Tarrasque at level 17.

Players killed the Tarrasque?
Make it come back as a ghost, imagine their horror as the Tarrasque swallows allips by the mouthful. Yum!

Tired of boring old friends that don't eat entire towns?
Because no one thought to put a limit on Charm spells based on hit die, you can Charm Monster yourself a Tarrasque, a Tarrasque has a will save of +20, which shouldn't be too hard to overcome, and you can do this at level 7 with a bit of luck. Just make sure you can communicate with your new friend or it might still mistake you for food.

Disclaimer: I hold no responsibility if doing any of the aforementioned in an actual game leads to personal injury or loss of books (from being deeply imbedded in your skull).

What else can we do with the Tarrasque?

[Forrestfire]

Well, first... Diplomacy it to Helpful, then to Fanatic. Then Psychic Reformation (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/psychicReformation.htm) it. It has 48 hit dice. Go wild :smallbiggrin:

[elonin]

Diplomacy wouldn't work on the Tarrasque. Either animal stipulation or too low intelligence. Also, (and i'm vague on the details) doesn't the carapace prevent using Charm Monster?

[Hiro Protagonest]

Diplomacy wouldn't work on the Tarrasque. Either animal stipulation or too low intelligence.

Int 3. Beast intelligence is 1-2.

[Judge_Worm]

Diplomacy wouldn't work on the Tarrasque. Either animal stipulation or too low intelligence. Also, (and i'm vague on the details) doesn't the carapace prevent using Charm Monster?

Charm Monster isn't a ray, line, cone, or magic missile. So no the carapace does not help it.


Well, first... Diplomacy it to Helpful, then to Fanatic. Then Psychic Reformation (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/psychicReformation.htm) it. It has 48 hit dice. Go wild :smallbiggrin:

The issue with diplomacy and the Tarrasque is that we don't know what if any languages it understands, what we do know is that it can't speak. Telepathic communication might not work either because the Tarrasque might not even have a language. And I don't know if diplomacy has an exception for gestures like the Charm line of spells do.

[Invader]

Charm monster isn't going to work for the same reason as diplomacy. You don't speak the tarrasques language bc it doesn't have one. On top of that you have to beat it's 32 SR and then it has to fail it's save which is also unlikely unless you're really optimized for it.

The problem with the first example is that it's still just the tarrasque with all its draw backs and weaknesses, it can just hit a little harder which isn't really much of a problem.

[Forrestfire]

Cast Tongues on it until it fails, then. Or get an item that grants it, and staple it to it. No save, just have to figure out how to make it don the item.

[Invader]

Cast Tongues on it until it fails, then. Or get an item that grants it, and staple it to it. No save, just have to figure out how to make it don the item.

That just adds to the difficulty.

[Forrestfire]

If it was easy to make an alien all-devouring godzilla-beast your friend, it wouldn't be as rewarding :smalltongue:

[INoKnowNames]

Actually, isn't there a way to make Wild Empathy affect Magic Beasts? From there, just get the Wild Empathy check as high as possible, and you can just tame the Tarrasque. Belkar would be proud.

[Chronos]

Problem with that is that there aren't nearly as many ways to buff Wild Empathy as there are to buff skills.

And why the incarnate and dustform in the first example? All you've really accomplished is changing its creature type to Giant and given it a vulnerability to crits from bludgeoning weapons. You'd be better off just adding whatever class levels you're adding without the templates. Oh, and it already has Power Attack.

[INoKnowNames]

Problem with that is that there aren't nearly as many ways to buff Wild Empathy as there are to buff skills.

Sure about that?
(http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?302815-3-5-PF-Gotta-Catch-em-All-Optimizing-Wild-Empathy)

[Forrestfire]

The main issue is that with Wild Empathy, it only works on Magical Beasts with Int 1 or 2. I guess you could drain the Tarrasque a bit first, though.

[Deophaun]

Problem with that is that there aren't nearly as many ways to buff Wild Empathy as there are to buff skills.
Bard + Soothe The Beast = Perform check for Wild Empathy.

Although one problem is Wild Empathy only says it can be used on Magical Beasts with an int of 1 or 2.

[Judge_Worm]

Cast Tongues on it until it fails, then. Or get an item that grants it, and staple it to it. No save, just have to figure out how to make it don the item.
Toss a pearl of speech down its throat?


Charm monster isn't going to work for the same reason as diplomacy. You don't speak the tarrasques language bc it doesn't have one. On top of that you have to beat it's 32 SR and then it has to fail it's save which is also unlikely unless you're really optimized for it.

You don't have to speak the same language as the creature you are using Charm on, from the SRD, "You must speak the person’s language to communicate your commands, or else be good at pantomiming." My emphasis, that quote is from the description for Charm Person, which is referenced by Charm Monster. Although I did overlook the Spell Resistance: Yes part. You win some you lose some.



The problem with the first example is that it's still just the tarrasque with all its draw backs and weaknesses, it can just hit a little harder which isn't really much of a problem.

Actually by that point it's a completely different monster, it no longer has the worst of the Tarrasque's weaknesses and loses the best of its strengths. The main point being that it's an ECL 50 (52 HD -2LA) creature with a CR of 15. No problem for an optimized character, but it has a fairly low CR for what it is. Unlike an actual Tarrasque it has an average Int of 10.5, the giant type, and the ability to use weapons and armor. Fighter was just the coolest use I could think of. It also makes a good wizard (if Int is rolled high enough) or sorcerer (16 Cha). There's so much to do with a 48d8 hit point CR 11 creature that can take levels in almost any class(opening up a lot of optimizers tricks) I just saw the Strength and thought fighter. And now I'm rambling.

[INoKnowNames]

Bard + Soothe The Beast = Perform check for Wild Empathy.

Although one problem is Wild Empathy only says it can be used on Magical Beasts with an int of 1 or 2.


The main issue is that with Wild Empathy, it only works on Magical Beasts with Int 1 or 2. I guess you could drain the Tarrasque a bit first, though.

The entire reason I brought up Wild Empathy was because I thought there was a way to be allowed to use it on beasts, and then from there you just get your check high enough to make the Tarrasque your puppy.

Though I don't think Soothe the Beast can be used as a substitute for Wild Empathy by RAW.

[Deophaun]

Though I don't think Soothe the Beast can be used as a substitute for Wild Empathy by RAW.
It does the exact same thing... by RAW...

[INoKnowNames]

It does the exact same thing... by RAW...

The issue, here, is that while a Perform Check may be easier to optimize than a Wild Empathy Check, by RAW Soothe the Beast may do the same thing but is not the same as having the Wild Empathy Class Feature.

The problem with this is that while I'm certain there is something that allows the Wild Empathy Check to be able to work on Magical Beasts, including the Tarrasque, you could optimize the Perform Check up to the stratosphere and still not accomplish the same feat if you can't affect it. That is what I am saying by RAW the issue comes up.

[Deophaun]

The issue, here, is that while a Perform Check may be easier to optimize than a Wild Empathy Check, by RAW Soothe the Beast may do the same thing but is not the same as having the Wild Empathy Class Feature.

The problem with this is that while I'm certain there is something that allows the Wild Empathy Check to be able to work on Magical Beasts, including the Tarrasque, you could optimize the Perform Check up to the stratosphere and still not accomplish the same feat if you can't affect it. That is what I am saying by RAW the issue comes up.
I'm sorry, apparently I wasn't being clear. I will try again:


A druid can improve the attitude of an animal. This ability functions just like a Diplomacy check made to improve the attitude of a person. The druid rolls 1d20 and adds her druid level and her Charisma modifier to determine the wild empathy check result.

The typical domestic animal has a starting attitude of indifferent, while wild animals are usually unfriendly.

To use wild empathy, the druid and the animal must be able to study each other, which means that they must be within 30 feet of one another under normal conditions. Generally, influencing an animal in this way takes 1 minute but, as with influencing people, it might take more or less time.

A druid can also use this ability to influence a magical beast with an Intelligence score of 1 or 2, but she takes a -4 penalty on the check.


You gain an ability similar to the wild empathy ability of a druid or ranger. Your music can improve the attitude of an animal. You make a Perform check instead of a Diplomacy check and use the result to determine the animal's new attitude. The typical domesticated animal has a starting attitude of indifferent, while wild animals are usually unfriendly. To use this ability, you must be within 30 feet of the animal. The check takes 1 minute, but it might take longer to actually influence the animal. You can also use this ability to influence a magical beast with an Intelligence score of 1 or 2, but you take a -4 penalty on the check..

So, what's the issue?

[Elric VIII]

Cast Tongues on it until it fails, then. Or get an item that grants it, and staple it to it. No save, just have to figure out how to make it don the item.

Pearl of Speech (SS) plus blowgun (OA)?

[Invader]

Don't you have to apply incarnate construct to a humanoid?

Edit* Humanoid form which the tarrasque def doesn't have.

[INoKnowNames]

So, what's the issue?

You were being clear. You just weren't understanding me.

I suggested using Wild Empathy to let someone tame the Tarrasque, under the assumption that there was a class feature or feat that would enable the user to perform Wild Empathy against Magic Creatures.

One user retorted that Wild Empathy is not as easy to optimize as Diplomacy.

You suggested Soothe the Beast as a response to this problem. And while Soothe the Beast is easier to optimize, it does not work against Intelligent Magic Beasts. And by RAW, because they are named differently, Soothe the Beast may not benefit from some of the things that work on Wild Empathy itself directly, potentially including the here-to-unknown Class Feature or Feat that would allow Wild Empathy the chance to tame the Tarrasque.

To repeat, the issue that remains is that Soothe the Beast can't work on the Tarrasque, and that by RAW there is no fix to this, unlike with Wild Empathy.

[Deophaun]

You suggested Soothe the Beast as a response to this problem. And while Soothe the Beast is easier to optimize, it does not work against Intelligent Magic Beasts. And by RAW, because they are named differently, Soothe the Beast may not benefit from some of the things that work on Wild Empathy itself directly, potentially including the here-to-unknown Class Feature or Feat that would allow Wild Empathy the chance to tame the Tarrasque.
There are exactly two feats that expand Wild Empathy's capabilities--Child of Winter and Mark of Vermin--and in both those feats, "wild empathy" is immediately followed by the phrase "or similar abilities."

To repeat, the issue that remains is that Soothe the Beast can't work on the Tarrasque, and that by RAW there is no fix to this, unlike with Wild Empathy.
"Unlike with Wild Empathy?" Prove it: How can Wild Empathy affect the Tarrasque in a way Soothe the Beast cannot.

[Invader]

I'll also note that "pantomime" is going to fall strictly under DM jurisdiction.

[INoKnowNames]

There are exactly two feats that expand Wild Empathy's capabilities--Child of Winter and Mark of Vermin--and in both those feats, "wild empathy" is immediately followed by the phrase "or similar abilities."

"Unlike with Wild Empathy?" Prove it: How can Wild Empathy affect the Tarrasque in a way Soothe the Beast cannot.

Beast Heart Adept's Monster Empathy allows someone to affect Magical Beasts regardless of their intelligence score. It also stacks with Wild Empathy (and is not followed by "or similar abilities."), allowing someone who has optimized their Wild Empathy Check to use it on Magical Beasts, including Big T here.

[Deophaun]

Beast Heart Adept's Monster Empathy allows someone to affect Magical Beasts regardless of their intelligence score. It also stacks with Wild Empathy (and is not followed by "or similar abilities."), allowing someone who has optimized their Wild Empathy Check to use it on Magical Beasts, including Big T here.
::claps::

There? You see? Instead of talking about vague ambiguities, you actually produced something useful that can be discussed.

Although, it needs to be pointed out, it's not Wild Empathy, and anything that isn't a class level that specifically adds bonuses to Wild Empathy will not add bonuses to Monster Empathy. So, even more difficult to optimize.

Edit: Tarrasque is not immune to ability drain. If you can somehow get it to be subjected to memory rot for two rounds, you can use Wild Empathy on him.

[INoKnowNames]

::claps::

There? You see? Instead of talking about vague ambiguities, you actually produced something useful that can be discussed.

You mean beyond producing an entire thread of ways to optimize Wild Empathy itself enough to do the job itself should you be able to apply it? Also, please do not talk down to me and act condescending when having an otherwise civil conversation. It's very rude, and I did nothing wrong to you.


Although, it needs to be pointed out, it's not Wild Empathy, and anything that isn't a class level that specifically adds bonuses to Wild Empathy will not add bonuses to Monster Empathy. So, even more difficult to optimize.

On the other hand, at least it's capable of having any affect at all. If playing a Totemist, Druid, Variant Bard, or Ranger, you're still capable of dipping this class for one level and making the Tarrasque your new side kick in all of 2 rounds. Maybe less, depending on your Charisma Modifier.

Though I did finally find the feat I was looking for that lets you use Wild Empathy directly on Magic Beasts without needing a dip. (http://www.realmshelps.net/cgi-bin/featbox.pl?feat=Savage_Empathy)


Edit: Tarrasque is not immune to ability drain. If you can somehow get it to be subjected to memory rot for two rounds, you can use Wild Empathy on him.

If you can subject it to spells, you could just Charm Monster it instead. I was thinking more avoiding any spell slots. The original Tarrasque of legend was defeated when a saint managed to tame it without having to fight it or mind control it, after all.

[Deophaun]

You mean beyond producing an entire thread of ways to optimize Wild Empathy itself enough to do the job itself should you be able to apply it?
Both Wild Empathy and Soothe the Beast had their flaw pointed out well before you started in on this. You were the one who produced an entire thread of argument by making unsupported statements.

Also, please do not talk down to me and act condescending when having an otherwise civil conversation. It's very rude, and I did nothing wrong to you.
Rude was exactly what you were, which is why you didn't produce any meaningful discussion until I whacked you upside the head with it.

[Invader]

You mean beyond producing an entire thread of ways to optimize Wild Empathy itself enough to do the job itself should you be able to apply it? Also, please do not talk down to me and act condescending when having an otherwise civil conversation. It's very rude, and I did nothing wrong to you.



On the other hand, at least it's capable of having any affect at all. If playing a Totemist, Druid, Variant Bard, or Ranger, you're still capable of dipping this class for one level and making the Tarrasque your new side kick in all of 2 rounds. Maybe less, depending on your Charisma Modifier.

Though I did finally find the feat I was looking for that lets you use Wild Empathy directly on Magic Beasts without needing a dip. (http://www.realmshelps.net/cgi-bin/featbox.pl?feat=Savage_Empathy)



If you can subject it to spells, you could just Charm Monster it instead. I was thinking more avoiding any spell slots. The original Tarrasque of legend was defeated when a saint managed to tame it without having to fight it or mind control it, after all.

Ability drain isn't always a spell.

[INoKnowNames]

Ability drain isn't always a spell.

Fair enough... though my intent was still how cool it would be to tame the Tarrasque without resorting to any sort of violence. Without needing to mentally retard it, dominate it, fight it or anything else. Just appear before it peacefully, and convince it to be your new friend.

It sounds lame, but it's the equivalent of being able to make Godzilla your ally, and it would take a lot to make that lame.

[Fouredged Sword]

NONONONO. Better yet.

Use wild empathy to alter it to friendly, then equip a pearl of speech on it to let it talk.

Now diplomacy it to fanatic and use the conversion rules to shift it's alignment to lawful good.

Then you have a factotum use their SR bypass to hit it with a casting of psychic reformation using a power stone.

Grant it Vow of Poverty and Vow of Peace.

[Forrestfire]

Nah, don't give it those. Instead, get it magic armor and rocket boosters, maybe some emplaced weapons on its back, necklace of natural attacks... What's the point of having godzilla as a buddy if you don't use him to lay waste to your enemies? :smallbiggrin:

[Getsugaru]

Actually, there is another way to Wild Empathy Mr. T, and even get a bonus to it: Totemist. The clas has Wild Empathy and is specifically stated to be able to use it on Magical Beasts. And if they bind the Soulmelds of the corresponding beast, they get bonuses to the check. Then just add in a ton of bonuses, (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?302815-3-5-PF-Gotta-Catch-em-All-Optimizing-Wild-Empathy) and voila! Mr. T the puppy.

[Eldariel]

Well, it's not a bad body to True Mind Switch (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/mindSwitchTrue.htm) into. All you need is ML48 and voila.

[INoKnowNames]

NONONONO. Better yet.

Use wild empathy to alter it to friendly, then equip a pearl of speech on it to let it talk.

Now diplomacy it to fanatic and use the conversion rules to shift it's alignment to lawful good.

Then you have a factotum use their SR bypass to hit it with a casting of psychic reformation using a power stone.

Grant it Vow of Poverty and Vow of Peace.


Nah, don't give it those. Instead, get it magic armor and rocket boosters, maybe some emplaced weapons on its back, necklace of natural attacks... What's the point of having godzilla as a buddy if you don't use him to lay waste to your enemies? :smallbiggrin:

I agree. And that's coming from someone who is actually using this thread and the ideas gained to try to figure out how to tame a Tarrasque using a Vow of Peace character. It's okay if you're a pacifist if you solve your troubles by having Godzilla fight for you. And directing the Tarrasque to eat Demons, Zombies, and Giant Robots for you will earn you lots of brownie points ontop of cool points.


Actually, there is another way to Wild Empathy Mr. T, and even get a bonus to it: Totemist. The clas has Wild Empathy and is specifically stated to be able to use it on Magical Beasts. And if they bind the Soulmelds of the corresponding beast, they get bonuses to the check. Then just add in a ton of bonuses, (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?302815-3-5-PF-Gotta-Catch-em-All-Optimizing-Wild-Empathy) and voila! Mr. T the puppy.

I knew that the Totemist had it and that the soulmelds had bonuses to doing so, but I didn't know that it's natively worked on Magic Beasts smarter than 2 int. Checking, it looks like it's explicitly limited to the kind of beast bound to your Totem Chakra, so unless you've got a Tarrasque soulmeld, then no go. In fact, if the Basilisk cited as an example has only 1-2 int, then the Totemist's Wild Empathy is in fact, exactly like the regular, and thus not naturally capable of manipulating smart magic beasts, just a select dumb one. Unfortunate as that is.


Well, it's not a bad body to True Mind Switch (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/mindSwitchTrue.htm) into. All you need is ML48 and voila.

Wouldn't that be "it's all fun and games until someone Becomes the Tarrasque?

[Eldariel]

Wouldn't that be "it's all fun and games until someone Becomes the Tarrasque?

Well no, you're still a...generic caster of unbelievable power, you just got Big T carrying your mind around. And then you begin making clones.

[INoKnowNames]

Well no, you're still a...generic caster of unbelievable power, you just got Big T carrying your mind around. And then you begin making clones.

But True Mind Switch is permanent! You switched Minds! Just kill your weaker body while somehow negating the negative level, and you've become Psyonic Godzilla!

.... speaking of which: befriend the Tarrasque as a Good character, then convince him to become a Dragonborn with the breath aspect. Retrain those feats and bam: actual Godzilla.

[Forrestfire]

On that note, there's a character concept I've been tossing around that's related to mind switching a Tarrasque... Namely, if the psion doesn't kill his previous body, how might the Tarrasque react? After all, it doesn't really have any malice in its actions, and as a result of its insatiable hunger, its emotions are normally limited to "hungry" and "hungry and angry". I'm imagining that if you removed those, it might have a higher Int score (as a result of not having its mind dulled by thousands of years of unstoppable hunger), and it's probably very very happy to not be so hungry anymore.

I'd probably play it as a character with something like Int 8 or so, and try to figure out a good, suitably alien mindset for a Tarrasque whose mind became trapped in a body that isn't so terrible for it. It's probably interested in experiencing new things, or at the very least, finds new things neat, since beforehand, it couldn't really do anything. At the same time, it might not have a frame of reference for many concepts that would normally be normal, and would overall be very much a fish out of water. Seems like it'd be fun to play.

[Chronos]

Everyone with Wild Empathy can use it on beasts, if the beast has at most 2 Int. Most people with it take a -4 penalty for using it with beasts. Totemists don't take the -4 penalty, and in fact also get a bonus if it's their totem soulmeld beast, but they're still subject to the 2 Int limit.

[Eldan]

Speaking of adding templates:

Somewhere in the ancient depths of this forum, there is my stealth tarrasque. I dont' remember all the details, but it was certainly Wendigo Dark Shadow Chameleon. Something like +20 hide/move silently in the end, plus perfect flight and hide in plain sight.

[Fouredged Sword]

There IS in fact a big T soulmeld. Dread Carapace is the tarrasque soulmeld, and it offers many nice bonuses.

[Chronos]

So if you somehow reduce the Tarrasque's Int, that soulmeld will make it easier to use Wild Empathy on it.

And there are actually two tarrasque soulmelds: Totem Avatar also relates to him.

[INoKnowNames]

Everyone with Wild Empathy can use it on beasts, if the beast has at most 2 Int. Most people with it take a -4 penalty for using it with beasts. Totemists don't take the -4 penalty, and in fact also get a bonus if it's their totem soulmeld beast, but they're still subject to the 2 Int limit.

This actually makes me wonder why the Tarrasque has 3 int beyond making Wild Empathy on it not a core option. What abilities, intelligence, or personality does it have beyond "Eat everything"? I've never ridden it to be any smarter than the giant wolf it basically is.


Speaking of adding templates:

Somewhere in the ancient depths of this forum, there is my stealth tarrasque. I dont' remember all the details, but it was certainly Wendigo Dark Shadow Chameleon. Something like +20 hide/move silently in the end, plus perfect flight and hide in plain sight.

:smalleek:

I was being entirely sincere about convincing the Tarrasque to become Godzilla. But how can you turn it into a Wendigo Dark Shadow Chameleon... Stealth Zilla?


There IS in fact a big T soulmeld. Dread Carapace is the tarrasque soulmeld, and it offers many nice bonuses.


So if you somehow reduce the Tarrasque's Int, that soulmeld will make it easier to use Wild Empathy on it.

And there are actually two tarrasque soulmelds: Totem Avatar also relates to him.

Oh. Screw me, then. That's kinda awesome, and yet another reason I need to gain access to a game in which I can use Magic of Incarnum...

[Chronos]

The biggest difference between Int 2 and Int 3 is that Int 3 is eligible for class levels. A few levels of Warblade, for instance, can really work wonders for Big T.

[INoKnowNames]

The biggest difference between Int 2 and Int 3 is that Int 3 is eligible for class levels. A few levels of Warblade, for instance, can really work wonders for Big T.

I understand that Int 3 allows for class levels, because it's the lowest a PC is supposed to be able to go.

My question is why does the Tarrasque not have Int 2, given that it doesn't display intelligence much smarter than that of an animal.

Also, the Tarrasque doing Kung Fu is stupid. I wonder if anyone has any campaign stories...

Lastly, I missed a question about the idea of what would happen to the Tarrasque after getting mindswitched into the body of a feeble yet hyper-intelligent Telepathic Psion 17. My honest opinion is in the form of a question: is the "CONSUME DEVOUR EAT" mindset because of the body of the beast, or the mind of the beast?

[Belial_the_Leveler]

1) Have a Fiend of Possession possess the Tarrasque.

2) Have the PCs screaming away in terror when even after they manage to incapacitate or kill it, the Tarrasque is still walking about and attacking them. (because the fiend is animating it as an object)

[Chronos]

Also, the Tarrasque doing Kung Fu is stupid.
I don't know about that; maybe it's instinctive for the Tarrasque, and the ancient kung fu masters developed their techniques by watching the Tarrasque's fighting style.

[Forrestfire]

Or maybe it just hits things harder as a standard action, or is decent at tanking things, or can pick people up and toss them. Warblade maneuvers are mostly just flowery names for "hit harder" or "hit more accurately".

[INoKnowNames]

I don't know about that; maybe it's instinctive for the Tarrasque, and the ancient kung fu masters developed their techniques by watching the Tarrasque's fighting style.

I said it was stupid. I never said I didn't like it, or I wouldn't have asked for campaign stories. After all, even stupid things can be awesome. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W5YsU826l20)

That said, there's no way in hell you're going to rationalize the Tarrasque doing kung fu. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JuEa6Hum0b4)

[Getsugaru]

I knew that the Totemist had it and that the soulmelds had bonuses to doing so, but I didn't know that it's natively worked on Magic Beasts smarter than 2 int. Checking, it looks like it's explicitly limited to the kind of beast bound to your Totem Chakra, so unless you've got a Tarrasque soulmeld, then no go. In fact, if the Basilisk cited as an example has only 1-2 int, then the Totemist's Wild Empathy is in fact, exactly like the regular, and thus not naturally capable of manipulating smart magic beasts, just a select dumb one. Unfortunate as that is.
Soulmelds are not like spells. All Soulmelds are available to their class from the start, so long as they have an available slot and unused Soulmeld. So getting a Mr. T Soulmeld isn't that hard (he actually has two, and with the Double chakra feat for Totem...:smallamused:).


Everyone with Wild Empathy can use it on beasts, if the beast has at most 2 Int. Most people with it take a -4 penalty for using it with beasts. Totemists don't take the -4 penalty, and in fact also get a bonus if it's their totem soulmeld beast, but they're still subject to the 2 Int limit.
There are ways around that, including attribute reduction as well as some of the various factors mentioned earlier in the thread.


There IS in fact a big T soulmeld. Dread Carapace is the tarrasque soulmeld, and it offers many nice bonuses.
There's also Totem Avatar, which channels the Tarrasque through the heart chakra; it only gives DR 5+essentia/magic, but for our purposes, it gives a second source of WE bonus.

...The Book of Blue is kinda my favorite book, as my first character actually was a totemist (he was very angry, attacking roughly 8 times per round at level 6 :smallbiggrin:).