Maxing out Ability Checks for UMD

[TheSethGrey]

So I have an itch to play a Rogue Thief with Use Magic Device to cast scrolls, but in order to do that I have to make sure I have a good chance at casting these scrolls. I need to have a either a really good roll, or a way to fudge the numbers (2 levels of wizard, divination school.) So yeah, if ya'll have any ideas to increase the power of UMD with scrolls, making it more likely I'll be able to cast them, let me know!

[hymer]

So I have an itch to play a Rogue Thief with Use Magic Device to cast scrolls, but in order to do that I have to make sure I have a good chance at casting these scrolls. I need to have a either a really good roll, or a way to fudge the numbers (2 levels of wizard, divination school.) So yeah, if ya'll have any ideas to increase the power of UMD with scrolls, making it more likely I'll be able to cast them, let me know!

What sort of check is it you think you'll need to make? As I read UMD, you can just use those scrolls, no roll required. You can use them without that with Arcana checks, I think, is that what you're referring to?

[some guy]

You do not need to make a roll to use a scroll. However, if it is spell with an attack or save, that will be quite low (proficiency bonus +0 (0, because you have no spellcasting ability)), but you can choose certain races or feats (or multi-class) to gain a spell casting ability.

[Easy_Lee]

Unless the spells you're casting have DCs, a thief with UMD can cast them every time. If they do have DCs, I thought you just used the DC of the person who scribed the scroll, but I can't say for sure.

[TheSethGrey]

You do not need to make a roll to use a scroll. However, if it is spell with an attack or save, that will be quite low (proficiency bonus +0 (0, because you have no spellcasting ability)), but you can choose certain races or feats (or multi-class) to gain a spell casting ability.

DMG PG 200.

If the spell is on your class's spell list but of a higher level then you can cast make an ability check using your spell-casting ability to determine whether you cast it successfully. The DC equals 10 + The Spell's level.

Assuming UMD allows me to bypass the need to have the class's spell list, I just need to pass the check.

[Easy_Lee]

DMG PG 200.

If the spell is on your class's spell list but of a higher level then you can cast make an ability check using your spell-casting ability to determine whether you cast it successfully. The DC equals 10 + The Spell's level.

Assuming UMD allows me to bypass the need to have the class's spell list, I just need to pass the check.

I don't think that's how UMD works. Pretty sure it just bypasses any requirements for successfully using an item, no questions asked. That assumes you're high enough to have the feature, though.

[some guy]

If the spell is on your class's spell list but of a higher level then you can cast

I'd say UMD's "ignore all level requirements" let's you bypass that.

[Person_Man]

I'd say UMD's "ignore all level requirements" let's you bypass that.

This exactly.

The whole point of UMD is that you can use any magic item while ignoring all requirements.

Also, I would strongly encourage you to talk to your DM and the rest of your party before you choose to play a Thief Rogue. Most DMs generally choose to make magic items extremely rare. And if you do get a scroll or some other magic item with some kind of limitation on it, if some other player is capable of using it (because they are the appropriate class/race/level/etc) then there is really no benefit to you using it over them.

[TheSethGrey]

I'd say UMD's "ignore all level requirements" let's you bypass that.

I'm not sure UMD implies spell level when it talks about level, plus UMD states I can use the item, while Spell Scroll talks about how to use the item if the scroll is of a higher spell then you have on your list.

Honestly though, I'm not 100% sure either way on exactly how UMD interacts with Spell Scrolls.



Also, I would strongly encourage you to talk to your DM and the rest of your party before you choose to play a Thief Rogue. Most DMs generally choose to make magic items extremely rare. And if you do get a scroll or some other magic item with some kind of limitation on it, if some other player is capable of using it (because they are the appropriate class/race/level/etc) then there is really no benefit to you using it over them.


This would be for AL play, and I've found that scrolls are a bit more plentiful considering they're considered consumable items.

[Once a Fool]

DMG PG 200.

If the spell is on your class's spell list but of a higher level then you can cast make an ability check using your spell-casting ability to determine whether you cast it successfully. The DC equals 10 + The Spell's level.

Assuming UMD allows me to bypass the need to have the class's spell list, I just need to pass the check.

The DMG version of spell scroll rules didn't even exist when the UMD first did, so, unless the developers' intended to change the way the class plays when they released the DMG, I have to assume that the UMD ability is one of those specific rules that breaks the general one in the DMG.

[MeeposFire]

You do not need to make a roll to use a scroll. However, if it is spell with an attack or save, that will be quite low (proficiency bonus +0 (0, because you have no spellcasting ability)), but you can choose certain races or feats (or multi-class) to gain a spell casting ability.

Actually you have it backwards I believe. IN the DMG it says classes like thief using UMD get their prof bonus but they use an ability mod of 0.

[TheSethGrey]

Actually you have it backwards I believe. IN the DMG it says classes like thief using UMD get their prof bonus but they use an ability mod of 0.

I just found this this evening, this is perfect because reliable talent should go off.

If I took a level of Wizard, would I be able to use my Wizard Spell Casting modifier for Cleric Spell Scrolls?

[calebrus]

There's nothing for you to max out.
Use Magic Device allows you to ignore any class, race, and level requirements. This means that the general rule under Spell Scrolls about requiring a check has been removed, because UMD lets you pretend that you are that class and level.
No check needed. You can cast the scroll without fear of failure.

As for the attack rolls and save DCs, there is a table on DMG pg 200 which tells you what those numbers are based on the level of the spell on the scroll.
Cantrips, 1st, 2nd: +5 attack, DC 13 save
3rd, 4th: +7 attack, DC 15 save
5th, 6th: +9 attack, DC 17 save
7th, 8th: +10 attack, DC 18 save
9th: +11 attack, DC 19 save


Actually you have it backwards I believe. IN the DMG it says classes like thief using UMD get their prof bonus but they use an ability mod of 0.

That's exactly what he was saying with "(proficiency bonus +0 (0, because you have no spellcasting ability))," but it doesn't apply.
This would apply to things like Staves, where the player that activates it uses their own mod for casting. It doesn't apply to scrolls, which have set numbers for each spell level.