A little dm plot help

[Wolfiepegasus]

Ok so I'm a dm of a campaign thats pretty random but I'm working on this epic story line for it so all the random actually has a purpose(its only not random when needed to push plot along or I have to give the pcs a specific item and they just can't roll the right number, sounds impatient but if you need to give them a weapon to kill an area boss and youve gotten corridors on the random rolls for like 2 hours youd lose your patience too). However for one of the points of the plot I have a character in there as a party member(yes I'm playing too shush) who towards the end will betray the party as hes a double agent for the bad guy. Basically for those who played tales of xillia hes Alvin. And those who didnt hes basically just a guy who works with the party but reports all the going ons and such to whomever the bad guy is(stiiiilll not made.....he has people to work for him to make up for this)while not really doing overly much to mess up the team. Until he pulls the betrayal and fights the party, or will he!

None of my pcs know this(nor check here) so Im keeping like a friendship thing for each character and I'm gonna base this characters side off that. Course its hard to be friend an insane pyromaniac who pokes nearly every boob he sees(this is a thing. Dont ask).

Soooo basically I want to know what all you guys think and I would love some tips on making it better....besides finishing all the other people.

Oh and theres gonna be an opposite character who will take his place should he not be there for whatever reason, like he ends up on his own mission or whatever.

[Crake]

Course its hard to be friend an insane pyromaniac who pokes nearly every boob he sees

I hope nobody's playing a lina-esque character, or that might be a dangerous combination... or maybe not :smalltongue: if she's into that.

That said, the betrayal will be all the more bittersweet (bitter for them, sweet for you :belkar: ) if they actually LIKE the character, so giving him blatantly unlikable traits like that really works against you, unless your players are into that i guess... His job is to infiltrate them too, so making the others like you is an important part of his role, so I'd assume he'd be competent enough to surpress his hedonism (that's what it is, lets not dance around it) for the mission at hand. I get that you're probably trying to build him around a concept, but in a book, the author has control over ALL the characters, as a DM you do not, so you need to do what you can to try and steer things in line without railroading. If your character is unappealing to your players, they will either abandon him, ruining your plans, or feel like they are forced to play with him because he's "your" character (which you will probably get a lot of flak for by the way).

Basically, play him like a real person, and make him likable, appealing to your players' tastes. If they're in a good party, have him act good. If they're evil, have him play along with their evil acts, and pretend to enjoy it, even if he might actually be into it. Have him pick out the leader of the party, and support his every decision, or at the very least, provide helpful suggestions, if his plans are particularly bad in some glaring way. Make everything he does be to gain the party's favour and liking, and get the table to want him around. Once he's confident enough, perhaps even have him test their affection for him by having him be "kidnapped" in the middle of the night, and see how they react. This could also be a good stalling tactic if the big bad needs to buy some time, but again, will only work if they actually LIKE him, and don't see it as an opportunity to ditch him.

Remember, he wouldn't have been picked for this mission if he wasn't qualified for it, being an unlikable jerk, basically every stereotypical pyromaniac womanizer out there, will make this not work at all

[Wolfiepegasus]

Weeellllll I'll admit I didnt flesh the character out in my post but the character is 1. Not a womanizer he just has this weird thing to poke em. 2. When I say insane I mean he literally just does things for no reason. For example in a previous area he would, without any checks, just run forward and jump on a bouncy thing cause it was fun. Hes.....naive and playful with the ability to be serious but he finds that boring. As for how the characters like him....well hes kinda the baby of the group in that if they dont keep an eye on him he might destroy a ton of stuff(pyromaniac is kinda soft.....he blows things up just to blow things up) however he is the only one in the group able to make really epic explosives(I put an extra xp system in for enviro kills, creative kills, and simply breaking stuff) and when it comes to clearing gaps hes number one.

So hes useful and has a likability, he just kinda can't be predicted.......kinda like dead pool but with nothing but explosives. And less talking.

And later I'm adding special dungeons that buff the worshipper(with some odd debuff such as pyro going so insane I have to roll to see what happens) so when we get to tiamats hes gonna be really important anyeay. Important and useful and enjoyable is pyros game.

[Crake]

Weeellllll I'll admit I didnt flesh the character out in my post but the character is 1. Not a womanizer he just has this weird thing to poke em. 2. When I say insane I mean he literally just does things for no reason. For example in a previous area he would, without any checks, just run forward and jump on a bouncy thing cause it was fun. Hes.....naive and playful with the ability to be serious but he finds that boring. As for how the characters like him....well hes kinda the baby of the group in that if they dont keep an eye on him he might destroy a ton of stuff(pyromaniac is kinda soft.....he blows things up just to blow things up) however he is the only one in the group able to make really epic explosives(I put an extra xp system in for enviro kills, creative kills, and simply breaking stuff) and when it comes to clearing gaps hes number one.

So hes useful and has a likability, he just kinda can't be predicted.......kinda like dead pool but with nothing but explosives. And less talking.

And later I'm adding special dungeons that buff the worshipper(with some odd debuff such as pyro going so insane I have to roll to see what happens) so when we get to tiamats hes gonna be really important anyeay. Important and useful and enjoyable is pyros game.

It sounds to me like they don't so much like HIM as much as they like what he brings in terms of utility. That's not going to make for a very climactic betrayal, because nobody will actually care about the character themselves. Having to baby sit an insane pyromaniac "baby" as you put it, probably isn't that high on the list of likable traits, and likely the only reason they do it is because they feel he's your character.

Note most people wouldn't call his actions insane, as much as just stupid. Insanity is an affliction, doing stuff "just cause" is a choice to be obnoxious.

Another thing would be, why would the big bad choose THIS guy to watch the party if he's so apparently insane. Wouldn't that impact his reliability? If he can be trusted to report back in secrecy, why is he capable of that, but not acting out like a moron? Just doesn't add up. If I were your players, that would be one of the things that would tick me off. If this guy is so "random" how was he capable of pulling that off, unless that was just a charade, in which case, then your players will feel bad for keeping him around just because he was your character.

Honestly, it sounds like you should re-think the whole character concept. It can turn out great if you put some effort into coming up with someone more.. real. What you have now is just going to lead to disappointment, on your and your players' behalf.

[Wolfiepegasus]

It sounds to me like they don't so much like HIM as much as they like what he brings in terms of utility. That's not going to make for a very climactic betrayal, because nobody will actually care about the character themselves. Having to baby sit an insane pyromaniac "baby" as you put it, probably isn't that high on the list of likable traits, and likely the only reason they do it is because they feel he's your character.

Note most people wouldn't call his actions insane, as much as just stupid. Insanity is an affliction, doing stuff "just cause" is a choice to be obnoxious.

Another thing would be, why would the big bad choose THIS guy to watch the party if he's so apparently insane. Wouldn't that impact his reliability? If he can be trusted to report back in secrecy, why is he capable of that, but not acting out like a moron? Just doesn't add up. If I were your players, that would be one of the things that would tick me off. If this guy is so "random" how was he capable of pulling that off, unless that was just a charade, in which case, then your players will feel bad for keeping him around just because he was your character.

Honestly, it sounds like you should re-think the whole character concept. It can turn out great if you put some effort into coming up with someone more.. real. What you have now is just going to lead to disappointment, on your and your players' behalf.

Yea I see what you mean but the character is complex when it comes to personality. I'm trying my best to convey him here sorry. They dont so much baby sit him as one of the characters grabs him to keep him out of trouble and various situations but his actions tend to be more beneficial then detrimental. However the point you brought up of they like his usefulness over him but due to who my pcs are they actually enjoy him a lot. I know the flaws of the character make it seem "Da fuq are you thinking hes bad for this role". Basically the reason the bad guy can rely on him is for the same reason his god relies on him, he can do what they want easily and without much thought. The reporting is on the strength of the group, who is what and all and he likes to tell stories so the bad guy will just have him sit with him and tell him about the last bit of the adventure.

But as for the likeability of him I dont know really how to explain. Hes the kinda guy who would.....using tales of xillia as an example again hes kinda the groups teepo in reactions to most of the party members.

He has a second personality but I'm still working on how that fits but the second personality is much more calm.

And while this character would probably tick you off I dont think one can complain much when he often is the one who points out or reveals where the treasure often is.

Though I guess how effective this is depends on the pcs as mine rather enjoy his craziness(considering he recently just rode a shark just cause he got a lot of laughs). However if I can say minus the problem of the character making no sense....what are some ways to make the idea better. Like the guy before mentioning the kidnapping idea which is cool. And thats more what I'm after I mentioned the character so you could get an idea of the situation better.