Improved Lich

[Wolfepuppy]

So say a dread necromancer makes himself a lich. Since he's at level 8 he has undead mastery, making undead that he creates have a +4 enhancement bonus to strength and dexterity, wouldn't he get that enhancement bonus? Likewise, wouldn't the corpse crafter feats contribute to his lichdom?

[Blackhawk748]

So say a dread necromancer makes himself a lich. Since he's at level 8 he has undead mastery, making undead that he creates have a +4 enhancement bonus to strength and dexterity, wouldn't he get that enhancement bonus? Likewise, wouldn't the corpse crafter feats contribute to his lichdom?

Firstly he has to be level 11 to be a Lich, but besides that minor Hiccup, yes all of his bonuses to making undead apply to him, as long as they dont specify "undead created with X spell" as there is no specific spell to make a lich.

[Thrice Dead Cat]

Firstly he has to be level 11 to be a Lich, but besides that minor Hiccup, yes all of his bonuses to making undead apply to him, as long as they dont specify "undead created with X spell" as there is no specific spell to make a lich.

As you must make a magic item to become a lich, it could be argued that a spell is still used. That being said, I don't find it to be a strong argument, so good luck convincing your DM to let the bonuses from spells apply.

[Blackhawk748]

As you must make a magic item to become a lich, it could be argued that a spell is still used. That being said, I don't find it to be a strong argument, so good luck convincing your DM to let the bonuses from spells apply.

These arent spells, these are his class features and feats. I just said that because some feats only work on "undead made with X" As long as it says "Any undead created by you" or something similar, by RAW yes. Though as said good luck with getting your DM to go along with it.

[Thrice Dead Cat]

These arent spells, these are his class features and feats. I just said that because some feats only work on "undead made with X" As long as it says "Any undead created by you" or something similar, by RAW yes. Though as said good luck with getting your DM to go along with it.

I'm AFB, but I thought there was at list some listed spell needed to make the phylactery to become a lich, thus the (weak) argument. I know a similar argument has been thrown around for necropolitans, too.

Personally, I don't buy the argument I listed, but am instead providing it as there are dissenting opinions to be found.

[Blackhawk748]

*flips through the MM* Um nope, just CL 11 with the ability to cast spells.

[Thrice Dead Cat]

Welp, I stand corrected on the lich front then.

[atemu1234]

Ooh! I want to tell this to my next DN player!

[Jowgen]

This is a minor probably pointless point, but just in case it adds something:

Dragon 348 has an article on Vecna's faith which mentions the existence of "Lesser Liches", which are basically non-casters who are turned into Liches by some other caster. They mention what Lich things they don't get, but that is literally all the material I've ever been able to find on these things.