Genie Wish Limits: Metaphysical hard limit or Personal code?

[(Un)Inspired]

Often I'm fiction featuring Genies (Djinn, Efreet, et certera) they can grant wishes.

Often time there are limits on the types of wishes they can grant (Disney's Aladin's Genie can 't kill anyone, grant wishes for more wishes, blah blah blah).

Do you think these limits are built into the magical powers of the Genies or are they simly part of a moral code that these Genies ascribe to?

Let's take a look at the inability for a Genie to grant a wish for more wishes. Can Genies literally not grant this or do they typically avoid granting it to prevent mortal from getting too much power? If it's the former, can it be circumvented through wishing for circumstances that will lead to the wisher gaining more wishes indirectly I.E. Wishing for more Genies?

What are the metaphysical limits for what a genie can grant? Why are those the limits?

[LaZodiac]

Well for what it's worth Genie from Alladin also mentions that he can't revive the dead, because it's icky. So it seems that at least for him some choice IS involved, but not TOO much.

I personally figure that a genie has no real limit except what they desire. As for the range of what their wishes can grant, I imagine it'd be the equivilent of a Wish spell in DND. So...quite a lot of things.

[Grinner]

In Wishmaster, genies are theoretically omnipotent beings, but they can only exercise their power when commanded to do so. However, when a genie grants one person three wishes, his metaphysical chains are unbound, and he's then free to do as he pleases.

I suppose he could keep granting wishes, but the genie involved in the plot clearly has greater ambitions.

[(Un)Inspired]

Well for what it's worth Genie from Alladin also mentions that he can't revive the dead, because it's icky. So it seems that at least for him some choice IS involved, but not TOO much.

I personally figure that a genie has no real limit except what they desire. As for the range of what their wishes can grant, I imagine it'd be the equivilent of a Wish spell in DND. So...quite a lot of things.


In Wishmaster, genies are theoretically omnipotent beings, but they can only exercise their power when commanded to do so. However, when a genie grants one person three wishes, his metaphysical chains are unbound, and he's then free to do as he pleases.

I suppose he could keep granting wishes, but the genie involved in the plot clearly has greater ambitions.

So in these examples where we have genies that have personal rules , do you think you could wish some of those personal rules away?

Like could you wish that the wish master stopped twisting wishes to hurt people? Or wish that Genie could overcome his believe that bringing people back from the dead is gross?

[golentan]

I read a story where Genies are OBLIGATED to grant 3 wishes to a mortal who asks, but HATE doing so. They literally only do it because they are compelled by a higher power, which is why literal/jackass genies are a thing (kill off or drive a wisher through their own words and you don't have to grant all 3) and they only grant the 3 wishes that they are required to although they could grant more if they chose to for some reason.

Though obviously, any answer to this question is depending on the setting.

[Anarion]

With the already noted caveat that this varies by setting, I think it works better if they're hard-coded into reality. Some things simply can't be wished for, no matter how much cosmic power you've got at your fingertips.

[Douglas]

I read a story where Genies are OBLIGATED to grant 3 wishes to a mortal who asks, but HATE doing so. They literally only do it because they are compelled by a higher power, which is why literal/jackass genies are a thing (kill off or drive a wisher through their own words and you don't have to grant all 3) and they only grant the 3 wishes that they are required to although they could grant more if they chose to for some reason.

Though obviously, any answer to this question is depending on the setting.
I've read a story with a similar premise (genies forced to grant wishes), where the protagonist made a point of treating the genie as a friend before even thinking about making a wish, and consequently made out spectacularly well on the whole thing with the genie going above and beyond to grant more than he'd asked for. There were still some hard limits, though, and at least one thing that could only be done as an "official" wish.

[Ravens_cry]

In the Aladdin story in One Thousand and One Nights, genie 'wishes' are tasks the genie does. They aren't 'poof, it's done' but things the genie does themselves, though they do seem to get materials from thin air. Also, some are more powerful than others, and a more powerful genie can prevent a less powerful genie from enacting a wish.
Finally, genie are normally free. Chaining a genie to an object like a lamp or a ring and forcing them to obey the owner is the work of a powerful magician. It is not their natural state.

[(Un)Inspired]

In the Aladdin story in One Thousand and One Nights, genie 'wishes' are tasks the genie does. They aren't 'poof, it's done' but things the genie does themselves, though they do seem to get materials from thin air. Also, some are more powerful than others, and a more powerful genie can prevent a less powerful genie from enacting a wish.
Finally, genie are normally free. Chaining a genie to an object like a lamp or a ring and forcing them to obey the owner is the work of a powerful magician. It is not their natural state.

That seems to clear up a lot of the problems I'm having in my head with Genie Wish hard limits.

[GolemsVoice]

If we assume a general D&D-ish high fantasy setting, I'd say some things are just hardcoded into the reality, like not wishing for more wishes, and not wishing to change the rules that are harcoded, while other factors depend on the type of genie and how much they like you. So an angry genie might do their best to twist your wish, while a nice or grateful genie mightgive you a little extra, so to say. Depending on how much freedom a genie has, they might also punish you if you try to be all clever.

Keep in mind that, in many of these stories, the hero frees the genie or other wish-granting beings from some kind of prison, and gets a certain amount of wishes out of gratitude. This would mean that genies do not normally grant wishes, only when they feel they owe a debt to somebody, so just finding another genie (or wishing for one) might not help you there.

[Frozen_Feet]

I go with the traditional "genies can grant any wish they can fulfill themselves". Which is usually quite extensive, since while traditional genies are not omnipotent, they're invisible and supernaturally strong spirits of wind and fire. You want riches? The genie cracks open a hill, leading you to a gold vein. You want a wife? The genie kidnaps some poor girl from nearby village and brings her to you. You want to be extraordinarily strong and tough? The genie acts as your personal trainer and force-feeds you cows until your wish is granted!

If I actually have to work with omnipotent, do-nearly-anything wishes like in D&D, my players are in for a rare treat. The reason being, the first wisher can establish limits on what can be wished and how. Like this: "I wish all wishes will have to adhere to logical precedence set by former wishes!" ---> "I wish that no other wish after my next one can grant immortality!" ---> "I wish for immortality!"

The implication is that somewhere up the chain of command there's a creature that's, for all intents and purposes, a true Capital-G God who dictates which sorts of wishes are appropriate and which are not. I mean, come on: if the genie could do something that the wizard who imprisoned it could not, why would've the wizard leave it imprisoned? Or rather, how would've the wizard imprisoned it in the first place? There is always a bigger wish... errr, fish.

[Eldan]

In the Aladdin story in One Thousand and One Nights, genie 'wishes' are tasks the genie does. They aren't 'poof, it's done' but things the genie does themselves, though they do seem to get materials from thin air. Also, some are more powerful than others, and a more powerful genie can prevent a less powerful genie from enacting a wish.
Finally, genie are normally free. Chaining a genie to an object like a lamp or a ring and forcing them to obey the owner is the work of a powerful magician. It is not their natural state.

Yeah, that. One should also note that the spirits of the lamp and the spirits* of the ring granted as many wishes as one wanted in the Aladdin story. There was also one other story in the version of the Thousand and One Nights that I read where a djinn was imprisoned. When he was released by accident, he said something like "When I was imprisoned ten years, I swore I would make the one who freed me rich. After a hundred years, I swore I'd make the one freeing me a sultan, if only I was released. But after a thousand years, I swore I'd kill whoever relased me and then take terrible vengeance on the world." (Of course, he was then tricked into not killing the liberator.)

So, not obligated at all. They are limited only by their personal powers, which are tremendous and only very few are bound to objects and in servitude.


*weren't there multiple spirits in each, or am I remembering that wrong?

[golentan]

The implication is that somewhere up the chain of command there's a creature that's, for all intents and purposes, a true Capital-G God who dictates which sorts of wishes are appropriate and which are not. I mean, come on: if the genie could do something that the wizard who imprisoned it could not, why would've the wizard leave it imprisoned? Or rather, how would've the wizard imprisoned it in the first place? There is always a bigger wish... errr, fish.

Imprisoning a magical foe more powerful than you (because you can't beat them outright) is a STAPLE of mythological and fantasy worlds. Power without leverage just leaves you flailing angrily in a vacuum, donchaknow?

[Jay R]

The primary reason in a game is to prevent breaking the game. But here is my rationale.

You cannot use water to float something above water level. You cannot use a battery to get more power than is stored in the battery. And for the same straightforward reason, you cannot use a wish to get more than one wish grants.

[goto124]

I myself find metaphysical hard limits easier to accept than personal codes. Morality/ethics are rather iffy, while reading about a fantasy world means you already accept that the world works on different (meta)physical laws than RL.