Being Lucky as a Kender. (Pathfinder)

[Desiani]

So... people in my party originally said it was ok for me to play as a Kender. I am playing a Kender Psion and I am boosting my search/sleight of hand/spot skills because of the general attitudes of the race descriptions.

My problem is that because I am focusing on Search a high majority of my random finding things rolls I am getting the high value catagories and my party is getting irritated that my shares of loot are generally higher... some are hinting that I should reroll my character.

My question is mostly should I reroll? I am really enjoying the race/class combo as a Telepathic Kender is a real mischief maker and tons of fun... plus it doesn't help I've begun my leveling into Thrallherd :D

[Coidzor]

So... people in my party originally said it was ok for me to play as a Kender. I am playing a Kender Psion and I am boosting my search/sleight of hand/spot skills because of the general attitudes of the race descriptions.

My problem is that because I am focusing on Search a high majority of my random finding things rolls I am getting the high value catagories and my party is getting irritated that my shares of loot are generally higher... some are hinting that I should reroll my character.

My question is mostly should I reroll? I am really enjoying the race/class combo as a Telepathic Kender is a real mischief maker and tons of fun... plus it doesn't help I've begun my leveling into Thrallherd :D

Stealing from your party members and counting it as your part of the share of loot is naturally going to annoy your fellow players, yes. :smallconfused:

Frankly you're lucky that you managed to find a group that let you play a Kender at all, and to play one without a boatload of restrictions too? Hoo.

[Firest Kathon]

I am really enjoying the race/class combo as a Telepathic Kender is a real mischief maker and tons of fun...
I think you hit the nail one the head here: It's fun, but for whom? Obviously for you, but less so for your co-players. Especially if you take away from their treasure share. Maybe you should change your play style, so that your Kender does indeed find more loot, but is only interested in a part of it - which just so happens to be your "normal" share of the treasure.

[Ninane]

The problem isn't being a kender. The problem is (possibly) not playing a Kender true to character and a DM unprepared for the hurdles a Kender poses.

Because of your party members being so aware of what Kenders are like (I hope), they should be getting rather large circumstance bonuses any time you are in a situation where you could reasonably take their possessions. For the sake of your party's sanity, you shouldn't have hold of a party member's possessions for more than a session considering that Kenders frequently browse through their little hoards as part of their "curiosity illness" fluff. Find a way to RP examining it, toying with it, using it in plain view or whatever so the owners have the opportunity to get it back. (And so you're not just playing the "teehee I take things" side of kenders, but also dealing with the repercussions of your actions, like kenders frequently face, in social situations)

If you want this character to work and you have fun with it, then these are the things you should be doing to not only be playing true to the kender race but to not be "that guy".

As for the things you find randomly through your absentminded acquisition, that should just be part of your hoard, too. Something that may help your party members be less jealous is if your DM creates move varied "high value" items, things that you can suddenly "remember" you found that could help say, a cleric on his knowledge religion roll or a spyglass that helps the paladin see enemy lines clearly to plan a tactical assault. They should be cool and interesting to you, yeah, but these things could also help your party as well. But I think these acquired objects shouldn't be things you find and sell to boost your character wealth. Kenders collect these things due to their inexhaustible curiosity. They're classic hoarders and your own little hoard should be parted with as reluctantly a dragon parts with his hoard.

Could you explain why your character is getting a higher share of the loot? That sounds like a separate party issue, not an issue with you being a kender. Why would rerolling your character change that?

[Desiani]

The problem isn't being a kender. The problem is (possibly) not playing a Kender true to character and a DM unprepared for the hurdles a Kender poses.

Because of your party members being so aware of what Kenders are like (I hope), they should be getting rather large circumstance bonuses any time you are in a situation where you could reasonably take their possessions. For the sake of your party's sanity, you shouldn't have hold of a party member's possessions for more than a session considering that Kenders frequently browse through their little hoards as part of their "curiosity illness" fluff. Find a way to RP examining it, toying with it, using it in plain view or whatever so the owners have the opportunity to get it back. (And so you're not just playing the "teehee I take things" side of kenders, but also dealing with the repercussions of your actions, like kenders frequently face, in social situations)

If you want this character to work and you have fun with it, then these are the things you should be doing to not only be playing true to the kender race but to not be "that guy".

As for the things you find randomly through your absentminded acquisition, that should just be part of your hoard, too. Something that may help your party members be less jealous is if your DM creates move varied "high value" items, things that you can suddenly "remember" you found that could help say, a cleric on his knowledge religion roll or a spyglass that helps the paladin see enemy lines clearly to plan a tactical assault. They should be cool and interesting to you, yeah, but these things could also help your party as well. But I think these acquired objects shouldn't be things you find and sell to boost your character wealth. Kenders collect these things due to their inexhaustible curiosity. They're classic hoarders and your own little hoard should be parted with as reluctantly a dragon parts with his hoard.

Could you explain why your character is getting a higher share of the loot? That sounds like a separate party issue, not an issue with you being a kender. Why would rerolling your character change that?

I should have clarified better. It's not that I am taking from party members. It's the bits where I walk through town or a shop and roll a 120 search check for absentmindedly finding things. My DM has been giving me weapons, armor and other semi powerful magic items. As part of the roll play aspect of me being a Telepathic Kender he has this obsession with trying to understand how arcane magic works... Since about level 3 he took to carrying a wizard spell book. The DM thought it would be funny that I also 'absentmindedly borrow' spell knowledge. I don't take spell slots, but depending on the roll I somehow gain knowledge of X level spell from the brain of any caster around me. I have played this for the party as since I don't know what these things I always write in this book are, I show them to the party wizard who then takes the oppurtunity to copy thespells he ddoesn't know.

[Desiani]

Also... other than the stealing bits... what's wrobg with kender?

[LoyalPaladin]

Also... other than the stealing bits... what's wrobg with kender?
Usually I am fairly biased towards kender. I had a healthy dislike of them during a large campaign I was in. But in this case, I would say that rerolling the character is probably not the best option. You like your character. But you do need to accommodate other players too.

Kenders do acquire things often, but I think that if your kender is willing to share the loot with your party it should ease the pain a little. On top of all that, are you able to cast the spells you "borrow"? That would probably make me unhappy as a player. The DM is essentially allowing levels in Wizard without being a wizard.

Now if you want to know why people don't like kender, you should play with one instead of as one some day. You'll get the picture. They tend to be little maniacs that cause mayhem and distract from the party's goals. Sometimes they even sidetrack the main plot with their antics. Which is neat for the kender, but not for the rest of the party.

[Coidzor]

I should have clarified better. It's not that I am taking from party members. It's the bits where I walk through town or a shop and roll a 120 search check for absentmindedly finding things. My DM has been giving me weapons, armor and other semi powerful magic items. As part of the roll play aspect of me being a Telepathic Kender he has this obsession with trying to understand how arcane magic works... Since about level 3 he took to carrying a wizard spell book. The DM thought it would be funny that I also 'absentmindedly borrow' spell knowledge. I don't take spell slots, but depending on the roll I somehow gain knowledge of X level spell from the brain of any caster around me. I have played this for the party as since I don't know what these things I always write in this book are, I show them to the party wizard who then takes the oppurtunity to copy thespells he ddoesn't know.

...Your DM is deliberately engineering this situation to make your fellow players hate you by showing clear favoritism. The best advice to mitigate the inherently and intentionally disruptive element that are Kender is to remember that their sense of interest in "handling" is not determined by wealth or value. You're as liable to find disgusting trash like chicken bones or slugs or broken shards of mirror in a kender's pouch as anything they've actively stolen from someone.

Granted, that now explains why they're letting you play a Kender in the first place, they're a Kender fanboy. :smalleek: :smallyuk:

As for why Kender are hated, 1d4chan is a great start.

[JusticeZero]

There's a really easy solution to this.
"Hey guys, I found this cool magic sword, does anybody want it?"
Tadaa, problem solved.

[Desiani]

Usually I am fairly biased towards kender. I had a healthy dislike of them during a large campaign I was in. But in this case, I would say that rerolling the character is probably not the best option. You like your character. But you do need to accommodate other players too.

Kenders do acquire things often, but I think that if your kender is willing to share the loot with your party it should ease the pain a little. On top of all that, are you able to cast the spells you "borrow"? That would probably make me unhappy as a player. The DM is essentially allowing levels in Wizard without being a wizard.

Now if you want to know why people don't like kender, you should play with one instead of as one some day. You'll get the picture. They tend to be little maniacs that cause mayhem and distract from the party's goals. Sometimes they even sidetrack the main plot with their antics. Which is neat for the kender, but not for the rest of the party.

You misunderstood what I meant with the spell bit. I can't use them as my Kender has no idea how to fathom anything other than Psionics. She just has the knowledge of some random formula or other spell bits of knowledge. She took to writing them because 'the big tall man who casts sparkles' couldn't understand when he rambled about said knowledge. Writing them down, as parts of a spell, not the full spell.

For example, in the last session I borrowed knowledge from the King's Scoreress concubine. What the full spell was Anti-Magic Zone, but because I don't know how to comprehend things that aren't Psionic I wrote down what I did understand... Which was that it was 'a place where sparkles can't exist' plus that you needed to move your hands for it. Sparkles is her word for arcane magic. Using this the Wizard can make an attempt to learn the full spell at a -10 penalty because of my horrible way of describing them. :p

[LoyalPaladin]

You misunderstood what I meant with the spell bit. I can't use them as my Kender has no idea how to fathom anything other than Psionics. She just has the knowledge of some random formula or other spell bits of knowledge. She took to writing them because 'the big tall man who casts sparkles' couldn't understand when he rambled about said knowledge. Writing them down, as parts of a spell, not the full spell.

For example, in the last session I borrowed knowledge from the King's Scoreress concubine. What the full spell was Anti-Magic Zone, but because I don't know how to comprehend things that aren't Psionic I wrote down what I did understand... Which was that it was 'a place where sparkles can't exist' plus that you needed to move your hands for it. Sparkles is her word for arcane magic. Using this the Wizard can make an attempt to learn the full spell at a -10 penalty because of my horrible way of describing them. :p
Ah, well I still stand on my other points. But this seems like a semi-reliable way to attain new spells for the Wizard. Not sure why he would have an issue.

[Oneris]

Imagine you're in a group at school, and the teacher keeps slipping you cookies, hints, cheat sheets, bonus points, but gives none of it to anyone else. You're perfectly able and willing to share your gains with others, but can you see why your friends would accuse the teacher of favoritism and resent you? It doesn't matter if they have a net gain if they feel unequal from the differing treatment.

[LoyalPaladin]

Imagine you're in a group at school, and the teacher keeps slipping you cookies, hints, cheat sheets, bonus points, but gives none of it to anyone else. You're perfectly able and willing to share your gains with others, but can you see why your friends would accuse the teacher of favoritism and resent you? It doesn't matter if they have a net gain if they feel unequal from the differing treatment.
I like this explanation, no one likes being unequal. Scratch my magical item pain killer from earlier. Cookies are better than a bag of holding.


Kenders do acquire things often, but I think that if your kender is willing to share the loot with your party it should ease the pain a little.

[JusticeZero]

It's not so much a favoritism issue. For instance, lots of CRPGs with a variety of characters will have different characters find different options at various points. There's often a character who is fairly uninspiring, systemwise, but who keeps finding or being given rewards just for being in the party when you pass various points. This seems to be what the GM is treating your character as. Just treat it as an extra skill you can use for the group, and share your haul generously.

[T.G. Oskar]

I should have clarified better. It's not that I am taking from party members. It's the bits where I walk through town or a shop and roll a 120 search check for absentmindedly finding things. My DM has been giving me weapons, armor and other semi powerful magic items. As part of the roll play aspect of me being a Telepathic Kender he has this obsession with trying to understand how arcane magic works... Since about level 3 he took to carrying a wizard spell book. The DM thought it would be funny that I also 'absentmindedly borrow' spell knowledge. I don't take spell slots, but depending on the roll I somehow gain knowledge of X level spell from the brain of any caster around me. I have played this for the party as since I don't know what these things I always write in this book are, I show them to the party wizard who then takes the oppurtunity to copy thespells he ddoesn't know.

You seem to be playing the Kender relatively well (for a given definition of it); holding a spellbook is something they'd find "interesting", much more when they're already interested in spell knowledge (Kenders are meant to be curious, but nowhere near the incessant curiosity of Gnomes regarding technological knowledge). The DM is the one doing it wrong; no matter how high your Search check is, you have to understand that Kenders don't have a sense of possession as other races do. A Kender is equally capable of taking a wand, as taking a broken wand (because the broken wand has a still-living leaf), as leaving the wand it found earlier for the more interesting broken wand. The players are definitely right in being pissed, as you end up getting more magic items than they do (and more loot), which is something you don't have much interest about. Sure, a Kender does have a sense of value (they know that other races value some things more than others), but again, it has no sense of possession (it won't hoard things because they're valuable; it'll hoard things because they're interesting, and the notion of "interesting" for a Kender is quite different from that of a human, elf or dwarf, from a fighter, rogue or wizard).

The problem is when you also get "borrowed spell knowledge", when you're already a Kender with telepathic abilities. The extra loot is already a bad sign; the free spellcasting ability should be a mile-wide billboard with magic LEDs that says "this DM has a big problem". If you agree with the party, you'll have to kill the Kender in such a way that it doesn't revive, as otherwise you may end up with a DMPC in your hands, if what some of the posters here claim is true (that the DM is a Kender fanboy).


There's a really easy solution to this.
"Hey guys, I found this cool magic sword, does anybody want it?"
Tadaa, problem solved.

Nah. A Kender doesn't go with that.

Think of a Paladin fighting the forces of Evil, while the Kender is doing his best to "protect his friend" by using his telepathic powers. All of a sudden, a huge fiend shatters the last working weapon the Paladin was wielding, and the Paladin shouts "I need a sword!!!" The Kender, for his friend, will probably look at his bag, where there's a really shiny sword he doesn't remember being there. Then, in lieu of his own life, he'll run all the way to the Paladin and say "hey! Uh...I dunno where I found this, but I think this might be useful..."

Turns out the Kender draws from his bag a Holy Avenger. The Pally and the Kender save the day. As well as, say, the Wizard who couldn't fight the small band of fiends because he was too busy handling an Archdevil/Demon Lord on his own, the Bard who sings an inspiring song drawing from his Battle Dragon heritage, and the Cleric who's still buffing up to show the Paladin who's boss.

[Ninane]

Yeah, so like stated earlier, it's the DM either being lazy or too in-love with the Kender race fluff that's causing the tension with the group. Speak with him, try to get it so that these things are either done privately or more intelligently balanced...preferably both.

[atemu1234]

As far as I know, players who want to play mischievous characters will play mischievous characters, whether they're playing a Kender rogue or a Silvanesti paladin; the Kender are simply known for it. While the fluff does call for them to be little klepto buggers, it doesn't necessarily make the player act that way.

So let's not second guess his character idea simply because he's playing a race we don't like.

Mischief can be fun for everyone.

[Psyren]

There's a really easy solution to this.
"Hey guys, I found this cool magic sword, does anybody want it?"
Tadaa, problem solved.

Honestly - no, I'm not sure this would solve the problem either. Players like loot, sure, but many of us want to earn it, not have it drop into our laps courtesy of Sue-ified Tasslehoff stand-in.

It's not even like cooperative crafting, where I can contribute the raw materials or the spells and you contribute the feats and XP. It's just "hey, the DM is giving my character extra loot and I've decided to share some of it with my supporting cast!"