mage slayer build

[Nosta]

in a gestalt game what would be the best build for a mage slayer pc

race, classes, feats and equipment

[(Un)Inspired]

Human StP Erudite//Factotum

Font of Inspiration 4-5 times plus meta magic and reserves of strength for feats

Thought bottle and crafter contingent spells for gear.

[Nosta]

Human StP Erudite//Factotum

Font of Inspiration 4-5 times plus meta magic and reserves of strength for feats

Thought bottle and crafter contingent spells for gear.

StP Erudite?? whats that?

my rolled stats are 18 18 17 14 14 12

[Blackhawk748]

Oddly enough Monks can be a Mages worst nightmare when built right, sadly i am not an expert at Monk Op-fu, but im sure someone will come along with a link or a build.

Ranger with Favored Enemy: Arcanist should also be mentioned.

Also what are you going for? A mage that kills other mages, an angry Fighter?

Also StP is Spell to Power Euridite, and its so many kinds of cheese.

[Flickerdart]

The only way to kill a mage who knows what he's doing is to be another, better mage who knows how to mage better than the mage he's killing.

The reason for this is simple but sad - mundane characters mostly have options of the "you get +X to a number" variety. Damage bonuses, to-hit bonuses, skill bonuses. Spellcasters are literally playing a different game - they have options like "I deal you damage without needing to hit at all" or "you are now asleep" or "you are now my best friend" from level one. You can't beat a character who gets to ignore rules without having a better ability to do so.


Oddly enough Monks can be a Mages worst nightmare when built right, sadly i am not an expert at Monk Op-fu, but im sure someone will come along with a link or a build.
They really, really can't. Monks are one of the game's weakest classes, and the abilities they get that might conceivably frustrate a spellcaster hinder the monk himself more than help.

[Nosta]

The only way to kill a mage who knows what he's doing is to be another, better mage who knows how to mage better than the mage he's killing.

The reason for this is simple but sad - mundane characters mostly have options of the "you get +X to a number" variety. Damage bonuses, to-hit bonuses, skill bonuses. Spellcasters are literally playing a different game - they have options like "I deal you damage without needing to hit at all" or "you are now asleep" or "you are now my best friend" from level one. You can't beat a character who gets to ignore rules without having a better ability to do so.


They really, really can't. Monks are one of the game's weakest classes, and the abilities they get that might conceivably frustrate a spellcaster hinder the monk himself more than help.

well how about a spellwarp sniper who kills other mages?

[(Un)Inspired]

Erudite is a variant of Psion StP stands for Spell to Power, they get to select a number of spells each day and cast them as psionic powers.

[Blackhawk748]

They really, really can't. Monks are one of the game's weakest classes, and the abilities they get that might conceivably frustrate a spellcaster hinder the monk himself more than help.

I was referring to mostly Lower Op games (tiers 4 and 5) and since the OP doesnt know what StP Erudite is, i think that they arent much higher than that (i could be horribly wrong though)

Also this is Gestalt so a Binder//Monk is a conceivable Mage killer, You've got good saves, can come running from way out of left field and Pounce (thank you Chubaclops) with your Flurry of Blows onto that puny caster, and force some fort save (thanks Stunning Fist) Then you just take that feat that prevents them from casting defensively (my brain isnt working right now) as well as the one that lets you take a 5ft step with them (that one may be PF, again Brain.)

Granted this will only really work in a Tier 4 game, but it will work.

[Nosta]

I was referring to mostly Lower Op games (tiers 4 and 5) and since the OP doesnt know what StP Erudite is, i think that they arent much higher than that (i could be horribly wrong though)

Also this is Gestalt so a Binder//Monk is a conceivable Mage killer, You've got good saves, can come running from way out of left field and Pounce (thank you Chubaclops) with your Flurry of Blows onto that puny caster, and force some fort save (thanks Stunning Fist) Then you just take that feat that prevents them from casting defensively (my brain isnt working right now) as well as the one that lets you take a 5ft step with them (that one may be PF, again Brain.)

Granted this will only really work in a Tier 4 game, but it will work.

well were level 8 with 7 feats and 35k gp of items

what would be a good build for a binder/monk who kills mages

[Blackhawk748]

........... Id post something more in depth than above but apparently that took all of my brain power lol Um Fighter 1/Binder 4/Knight of the Sacred Seal 3//Monk 8

Feats, youll want Improved Binding so you can bind Chubaclops at level 11 (sorry no crazy pouncing yet) As well as Weapon Focus (unarmed Strike), its a pre req. Then take the Mage Slayer line of feats. As for your Knight Patron, Paimon is fun, as is Malphas, honestly just pick whatever Vestige you think is awesome and can bind at level 4.

On the Monk Side take Stunning Fist (Imp Grapple is awesome, but it has pre reqs you already meet, so use a normal feat if you want it), Combat Reflexes and Imp Trip as your Bonus Feats.

So combat will go like this for you. Run up and trip mage, then use a Stunning Fist on your free attack. Now if he fails his save, full attack him next turn while screaming "NERD!!!", if he passes his save or is immune to stunning, trip him when he tries to get up, then full attack while screaming "NERD!!!". Props if he looks like the SNL jock.

[(Un)Inspired]

well were level 8 with 7 feats and 35k gp of items

what would be a good build for a binder/monk who kills mages

Let's figure out what a wizard of around you're level can do. Then we can figure out how to counter it.

At 7th level:
A mage can Fly so you're going to need a way it attack someone in the air.

A Mage can make mundane ranger attacks useless with Wind Wall so you'll need a means of attacking them in the air without resorting to bows and crossbows.

A Mage can ( potentially) teleport short distances whenever they want, even in the middle of your turn with abrupt jaunt so you'll need a way to shut down teleporting.

A Mage can create miss chances, no matter how high your attack roll, with mirror image and blur so you'll need a way to bypass those.

[Void Bovine]

Funny that you started this thread ive been thinking of this for a while so far I got 3 paladin and 1 pious templar then just need to get immproved evasion somehow also occult slayer has some potential

[maniacalmojo]

The only way to kill a mage who knows what he's doing is to be another, better mage who knows how to mage better than the mage he's killing.

Answers like these are seldom ever helpful.


It also stands to reason what kind of game you are playing. If the DM is throwing out casters that are somewhat optimized and using reality exploiting mechanics then there are not many classes that can match that unless you are also one of those things. If the casters are primarily damage dealers or something along those lines then it becomes a bit easier


Barbarian/Rogue- Spell sense. Gains ac vs spells
Bard- Spell breaker song- gives Arcane failure to casters
Cleric/paladin- Divine counter spell, use turn attempts to counter spells
Monk/ranger/rogue/scout- spell reflection, replaces evasion
Ranger- Arcane hunter- Favored enemy archanist


Its also worth mentioning that clerics are pretty good at buffing themselves with persisted spell resistance and warforged are great due to the amount of immunities they have. The saint template (gained at level six) is a bitch to get but you can at will grant yourself an aura that cancels out lower level spells which is alright for its level (the other abilities are also great) Spellthieves are also fairly self explanatory.



Spell Resistance
Monk
Tattoed Monk 7, ecl 12, Complete Warrior, SR = 15+class
Enlightened Fist 9, ecl 14, Complete Arcane, SR = 10 + monk + class
Contemplative 7, ecl 17, Complete Divine, SR = 15 + class
Ur-priest 4, ecl 9, Complete Divine, SR = 15 against divine spells and SLA of outsiders, SR = 20 at level 8
Initiate of the Draconic Mysteries 7, ecl 12, Draconomicon, SR=15+class level
Spellward Shirt, soulmeld, Magic of Incarnum
Dread Carapace, soulmeld, Magic of Incarnum
Defiant 1, ecl 6, Planar Handbook, 15+class level, against divine mind affecting spells only, against all divine spells at level 10
Defiant 6, ecl 11, Planar Handbook, bestow SR on target, see text
Warrior of Darkness 8, ecl 13, Book of Vile Darkness, SR 20 (does not improve)
Celestial Mystic 9, ecl 16, Book of Exalted Deeds, SR 20 (does not improve)
Karsite, race, Tome of Magic, LA +2, SR= 10+class
Bauriar, race, Planar Handbook, LA +1, SR= 10+class
Daazzix's Vest, wondrous item, DMG2, +5 to SR
Boost Spell Resistance, feat, Book of Vile Darkness, +2 to SR (profane)
Gray Hand Enforcer 4, ecl 11, FR: Waterdeep - City of Splendors, SR = 5 + character level
Court Herald 12, ecl 19, Power of Faerun, SR = character level
Mythic Examplar (Ktolemagne) 8, ecl 12, Complete Champion, SR = 10 + arcane caster level
Exalted Spell Resistance, feat, Book of Exalted Deeds, +4 (untyped) to SR vs spells and SLA of evil outsiders
Celestial Mystic 9, ecl ?, Book of Exalted Deeds, SR 20
Swanmay 1, ecl 6, Book of Exalted Deeds, SR = 12 + Swanmay levels
Silver Key 5, ecl 8, Dragonmarked, "Sly Soul"
Psychic Refusal, feat, Drow of the Underdark, +4 to SR vs mind-affecting spells and abilities


Special Mention
Spellthief 15 - steal opponent's SR
Undo Resistance, feat, Fiendish Codex II, your sneak attacks lower opponent SR, see text
Eldritch Erotion - feat, Complete Scoundrel, your sneak attacks lower opponent SR, see text
Slayer 8, ecl 12, Expanded Psionics Handbook, each attack lowers power resistance by 1, see text
Demonwreaker 1, ecl 6, Expedition to the Demonweb Pits, bonus to overcome SR, automatically beat SR at level 5
Reactive Resistance, feat, Drow of the Underdark, lower SR as an immediate action


If you are gestalting you could have a cleric/ ranger. Get all of the abilities that let you shut down, reflect spells while you have a persisted spell resistance (you can shut it off out of combat) If you have the saint template then you can turn off nearby level 3 or lower enemy spells. The feat mage slayer can prevent them from casting when you threaten and if you are a warforged and get next to them with a reach weapon they cant 5' adjust back and cast due to you threatening that square as well.


The spellwarped template can also be used although it is a LA 3

[Flickerdart]

Answers like these are seldom ever helpful.
And yet you go on to list a bunch of caster tricks, Mr. Pot.

[j_spencer93]

Let's figure out what a wizard of around you're level can do. Then we can figure out how to counter it.

At 7th level:
A mage can Fly so you're going to need a way it attack someone in the air.

A Mage can make mundane ranger attacks useless with Wind Wall so you'll need a means of attacking them in the air without resorting to bows and crossbows.

A Mage can ( potentially) teleport short distances whenever they want, even in the middle of your turn with abrupt jaunt so you'll need a way to shut down teleporting.

A Mage can create miss chances, no matter how high your attack roll, with mirror image and blur so you'll need a way to bypass those.

there is an enchantment/magic item that can counter all of these. Which is good in this case

[(Un)Inspired]

there is an enchantment/magic item that can counter all of these. Which is good in this case

What are they? Are all affordable together by 7th level?

That definitely might even the playing field.

[eggynack]

Answers like these are seldom ever helpful.

I rather disagree. Not only is it a helpful answer, but it's pretty much just the answer. Only a caster can put together an offense powerful enough to bypass a caster's defenses, and only a caster's defenses can provide a meaningful block to a caster's offense. Offhand, I'd probably go with something involving cleric, because the inquisition domain and initiate of mystra are both neat, and because I just think it feels right in the role of caster crusading against casters.

[Flickerdart]

I rather disagree. Not only is it a helpful answer, but it's pretty much just the answer. Only a caster can put together an offense powerful enough to bypass a caster's defenses, and only a caster's defenses can provide a meaningful block to a caster's offense. Offhand, I'd probably go with something involving cleric, because the inquisition domain and initiate of mystra are both neat, and because I just think it feels right in the role of caster crusading against casters.
http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/0a/0ac53d3028546b0e65452cf6eeda21697cd01187b5ba266e7b e5a67a22da2bf7.jpg

[Karl Aegis]

........... Id post something more in depth than above but apparently that took all of my brain power lol Um Fighter 1/Binder 4/Knight of the Sacred Seal 3//Monk 8

Feats, youll want Improved Binding so you can bind Chubaclops at level 11 (sorry no crazy pouncing yet) As well as Weapon Focus (unarmed Strike), its a pre req. Then take the Mage Slayer line of feats. As for your Knight Patron, Paimon is fun, as is Malphas, honestly just pick whatever Vestige you think is awesome and can bind at level 4.

On the Monk Side take Stunning Fist (Imp Grapple is awesome, but it has pre reqs you already meet, so use a normal feat if you want it), Combat Reflexes and Imp Trip as your Bonus Feats.

So combat will go like this for you. Run up and trip mage, then use a Stunning Fist on your free attack. Now if he fails his save, full attack him next turn while screaming "NERD!!!", if he passes his save or is immune to stunning, trip him when he tries to get up, then full attack while screaming "NERD!!!". Props if he looks like the SNL jock.

I fail to see how monk adds anything of value to this build at all. If anything, it hurts you more than it helps you. You already have heavy armor from fighter and give up your ability to bind a second vestige. For what? You could have bound Ronove the Iron Maiden and gotten every significant Monk class feature, including Feather Fall at will instead of Slow Fall 40 ft (if anything, trade slow fall for the ability to walk on water from Stormwrack). You failed to present enough Alternate Class Features to make monk levels worthwhile.

Binder//Ranger 1 into Binder//Bard 19 gives you the good reflex save Binder lacks, full BAB, Martial Weapon Proficiency, Charisma Synergy, Favored Enemy (Arcanists) Alternate Class Feature, Bardic Knack Alternate Class Feature, 3rd level spells in light armor, D8 Hit Dice and 6+Int skill points/level.

[Flickerdart]

Binder//Ranger 1 into Binder//Bard 19 gives you the good reflex save Binder lacks, Charisma Synergy, Favored Enemy (Arcanists) Alternate Class Feature, Bardic Knack Alternate Class Feature, 3rd level spells in light armor, D8 Hit Dice and 6+Int skill points/level.
I don't get why people are so hung up on FE: Arcanists. You get +2 damage against casters. Whoop tee doo! It's not worth losing a level of bardic casting, or anything else for that matter.

[maniacalmojo]

And yet you go on to list a bunch of caster tricks, Mr. Pot.

True, but there is a bit of difference between "just play a caster" and "casters work well but here are other options as well" I listed things monks, rangers and rogues could do as well and listed warforged as a class due to the immunities.



Speaking of warforged a warforged paladin (if you can stand a few paladin levels) can be immune to stunning as well. I will try and find another race besides warforged that might be able to also help. I think drow get spell resistance?

Another semi mundane and fun sounding class combo might be monk or ranger+spellthief using a spiked chain or something along those lines. You can threaten a large area to prevent them from moving, Have various resistances and if a spell gets lobbed at you you have saves + ways to evade or reflect spells.

[Karl Aegis]

I don't get why people are so hung up on FE: Arcanists. You get +2 damage against casters. Whoop tee doo! It's not worth losing a level of bardic casting, or anything else for that matter.

The level of Ranger was mostly for martial weapons and full BAB for the rest of your levels. I'll edit my post to reflect that. There probably are better ways to get 6+Int Skill points, good reflex saves, full BAB and martial weapons at level one, my mind is just blanking on them.

Favored Enemy (Arcanists), by itself, is nowhere close to being worth a whole level. I agree.

[Flickerdart]

Speaking of warforged a warforged paladin (if you can stand a few paladin levels) can be immune to stunning as well.
Quick Recovery on an actually useful class is much better.

[Void Bovine]

I fail to see why paladin isn't any good against casters the save bonus is huge immunity to fear I had mentioned pious templar earlier just because it gets mettle so quickly which with evasion can stop spells better then spell resistance the problem with SR in most cases is improved spell penetration kills most sources of it though if u can get it high enough you might have something Id like to see that

[Karl Aegis]

I fail to see why paladin isn't any good against casters the save bonus is huge immunity to fear I had mentioned pious templar earlier just because it gets mettle so quickly which with evasion can stop spells better then spell resistance the problem with SR in most cases is improved spell penetration kills most sources of it though if u can get it high enough you might have something Id like to see that

Most spells don't allow saves. For instance: Polymorph and Overland Flight ignore whatever the paladin normally does. Also, most forms of evasion limit you to light armor when Paladin lets you access heavy armor.

[Andion Isurand]

For some time I've been dabbling with the concept of allowing a character to gestalt at levels where the two classes involved, don't actively advance the likes of a spellcasting or manifesting feature. With this concept... the prestige bard, prestige paladin and prestige ranger are preferable to their base class counterparts.

So, if this idea were to be adopted...
and you wished to gestalt only using "non-casting" class levels...

I'd suggest going with something like "Pounce ACF" Barbarian/Swordsage at 1st level... so you get a maxed d12 hit dice, high BAB, all good saves, (6 + int) x 4 skill points. You could then take the Quick Burning Rage and Slow to Anger flaws (Dragon 325) before disregarding the Barbarian class (in favor of Warblade perhaps) from that point forward.

Also: One good thing about having Arcanist as a ranger's favored enemy, is being able to obtain and use the Favored Power Attack feat (Complete Warrior 98).

[gorfnab]

I don't get why people are so hung up on FE: Arcanists. You get +2 damage against casters. Whoop tee doo! It's not worth losing a level of bardic casting, or anything else for that matter.
The feat Nemesis makes it an interesting option.

[Flickerdart]

I fail to see why paladin isn't any good against casters the save bonus is huge immunity to fear I had mentioned pious templar earlier just because it gets mettle so quickly which with evasion can stop spells better then spell resistance the problem with SR in most cases is improved spell penetration kills most sources of it though if u can get it high enough you might have something Id like to see that
The "save bonus" isn't going to be very high - a Paladin needs 4 ability scores to function and has trouble dedicating enough points to Charisma to matter. Immunity to fear doesn't really help you because Necromancy and Enchantment are 2 of the 3 weakest schools that everyone bans. If the wizards you're fighting cast spells affected by Evasion and Mettle, you don't need a mage slayer build because they are bad at being mages and are easy to kill.

My recommendation is: Know thy enemy. Before you proceed, read up on how well-played spellcasters behave. The God Handbook is a good place to start.

[EugeneVoid]

Paladin with Harmonious Knight ACFs and such make them a mock bard, which put them at a reasonable tier of power.

See: A-Game Paladin. (http://community.wizards.com/content/forum-topic/3407376)

Honestly though, DND ain't a game o' rock, paper, scissors.
Wizards poop on everything, even in low op, especially as they start leveling up. Level 9 is where they surge ahead in low op (polymorph which anyone can see is crazy broken comes online).

Its difficult to build for countering casters in particular, because casters can do everything a mundane can do that is mundane, which is pretty much everything. And they can do magic.

A good start would be



Let's figure out what a wizard of around you're level can do. Then we can figure out how to counter it.

At 7th level:
A mage can Fly so you're going to need a way it attack someone in the air.

A Mage can make mundane ranger attacks useless with Wind Wall so you'll need a means of attacking them in the air without resorting to bows and crossbows.

A Mage can ( potentially) teleport short distances whenever they want, even in the middle of your turn with abrupt jaunt so you'll need a way to shut down teleporting.

A Mage can create miss chances, no matter how high your attack roll, with mirror image and blur

[DMVerdandi]

Cloistered cleric//druid.

While it has already been stated that playing a full mundane against a mage is already suicide, instead of hating ALL magic, I generally think going against ARCANE magic instead is the better route. Simply hate sorcery, while leaving miracles/thaumaturgy as something that is sanctified.

Get yourself a magebane weapon, take magic and protection domains, create your own deity.
One whom is FIERCELY against witchcraft(arcane magic) and psychics(psionics), but whom allows thaumaturgy(aka divine magic) amongst his own flock. Miracle is the ultimate culmination of it's philosophy, showing that the faithful through his will can make anything happen, but wish and reality revision for example are complete heresy.

Since you have wild shape, you can actually ignore the usual divine metamagic route. Though you don't have to.It would be interesting to instead focus on wild shaping, expressing your dominion over nature given to you by your deity, and how you can harmonize with it, rather than how Arcane magic and Psionics destroys the harmonic link that the "sapient man" has with the world.
Again, another option is to go the divine metamagic route, and possibly take deadly hunter to get rid of wild shape. For a less...Animalish build, and more spiritual.



Throw in some rousseauian noble savage, Kabbalist Adam Kadmon, Taoist Sage, and you have a naturalistic, holistic character who abhors the destructive natures of the false pretenders of the power of the divine. Everything that they do perverts the true order of the world, and you won't stop by any means to deliver true balance, even at the tip of a blade.

[Kraken]

For what it's worth, if you do throw in ranger for favored enemy (arcanist), the nemesis feat from Book of Exalted Deeds is pretty useful. As a supernatural ability you automatically pinpoint the location of a favored enemy within 60' of you. I do agree with the larger point that overall, the way to beat a skilled mage is to be an even better mage.

[Void Bovine]

So favored power atk, favored arcanist and nemesis add in occuult slayer/ranger/scout take swift hunter and assuming you can get to high enough high enough lvl in ranger just hide in plain sight and use vicious strike? Seems rather diffacult could be fun though

Maybe even get improved skirmish

[Flickerdart]

So favored power atk, favored arcanist and nemesis add in occuult slayer/ranger/scout take swift hunter and assuming you can get to high enough high enough lvl in ranger just hide in plain sight and use vicious strike? Seems rather diffacult could be fun though

Maybe even get improved skirmish
Power Attack AND Skirmish is overkill. Provided that you can actually get next to a caster and then hit him, it's not all that hard to deal enough damage, due to generally low HDs and ease of damage optimization. Skirmish in general is really bad for this - the damage bonus is low, and it's shut down by heavy fortification.

Hide in Plain Sight also doesn't protect you from anything but mundane forms of sight, and even Darkstalker (which you really should get) doesn't protect against Touchsight and Mindsight. Also watch out for Lifesense - many spellcasters are necropolitans or liches, and will have access to this.

You will also want True Seeing to bypass the illusory defenses the caster will have, and mind blank to defend yourself from divinations. Slayer (psionic class from the SRD) is a good option here, especially with the ranger base.