Fisrt time building a Magus... Help?

[Dayaz]

So a couple nights ago, my Warder got killed in my rl group. It was a pretty epic, worthy death for him, so I'm satisfied. That being said, now I need to make a new character. Last night I decided on making a Magus, and wanted to get some help since I've never made one even as a one shot character, and I want him to be pretty optimized.

Race: Undecided, I need to find out if my DM will let me play a Samsaran for the alternate racial ability that will let me add new spells from another spell list. If he will, I'll be adding some healing spells to my list to make using healing wands easier.

Class: Magus, obviously :smallbiggrin:

Archetype: I was considering a Bladebound Hexcrafter, but I don't know how good it actually is. I know it looks pretty, at any rate.

Level: 10

Stats: 25 pb


the only thing I know with Magi are that they have 2 basic builds: Str and Dex based build, and that Intensify Spell is a thing. SO help building my spell list and everything else would be appreciated :smallsmile:

[Spore]

I was considering a Bladebound Hexcrafter, but I don't know how good it actually is.

It is very VERY good since you get basically SLAs that don't expend your spell slots as well as abilities that aren't on your spell list. And while Bladebound hits your Arcana reservoir hard, you gain permanent bonusses because your weapon is always a bit ahead of the curve (meaning you have to spend less points to overcome DR).


the only thing I know with Magi are that they have 2 basic builds: Str and Dex based build, and that Intensify Spell is a thing. SO help building my spell list and everything else would be appreciated

If you're not going to go Dex Magus you'll blow most spell slots on Mirror Image since the Str Magus is easier to hit. Our Str Bladebound Hexcrafter was really good (also 25 pb) but she came dangerously close to dying several times and would've died if it weren't for our Cleric. She was also part of the reason my Cavalier retrained heavily into Paladin (healing, the other part being us fighting undead, demons, devils and daemons 75% of the time).

I'd go "Magical Lineage: Shocking Grasp" as trait and take Intensify Spell on 5 making your Shocking Grasps scale up to 10d6 while still occupying a 1st level spell slot. We also agreed that the "Close Range" Arcana is a must-have for later levels (where you don't get any touch spells to use with spellstrike but several ray attacks).

Haven't dabbled in the Magus myself that heavily but I hope I could be of assistance.

[Kurald Galain]

Cool.

Bladebound is a very good archetype; by level 10 you'll be walking around with a +6 weapon for free. Hexcrafter is also a good choice, the best picks here are the Flight and Slumber hexes, plus the Brand cantrip.

Both strength-based or dexterity-based are viable builds: the former deals more damage and saves you a few feats, the latter has better defenses. If you don't take samsaran, any +str or +dex race would be a decent choice.

The standard magus trick is to attack with Intensified Shocking Grasp; for this, taking one level in crossblooded sorcerer is a pretty good deal. You can use a trait to make this a level-1 spell instead of level-2, too. That said, a magus has plenty of other tricks available. Generally you want to be using spell combat as often as possible.

I suggest sticking with light armor for mobility, and carrying a wand of Shield to buff your defenses further. Avoid magus arcana that cost you a pool point per use or per round, because you really don't have a lot of those; for example, Hasted Assault is nice since it lasts multiple rounds for one point.

[stack]

Note that since hexcrafter doesn't trade out improved spell recall even though it loses regular spell recall, you get the regular in place of the improved, mitigating the archetype's sole drawback. Starting at higher levels means you won't feel it's absence long either.

[Zubrowka74]

Read the Guide (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/extras/community-creations/-walter-s-lab/embedded-magus)! The DEX version w/ scimitar and all seems the obvious choice for a first time. Bladebound, although it gimps the things you can do with your arcane pool, gets you neat stuff. You don't have to spends money on a magic weapon and your black blade will be indestructible most of the time.

Just don't take the Lore Warden 2 dip if you're starting at level 1. You'll hit a transition phase around level 5/6 where you'll be behind, a squishy melee with only level 1 spells.

[stack]

Starting at 10 you can already use better than light armors, so dex loses some of its advantage, though initiative and touch AC are still nice. The extra two feats you didn't spend making dex your attack stat are nice too. Either way works fine.

[Kurald Galain]

Bladebound, although it gimps the things you can do with your arcane pool, gets you neat stuff.
A level-10 magus has about 8 pool, a level-10 bladebound has about 6. It's not a big deal; most arcana that cost a lot of pool points aren't that impressive anyway.


Just don't take the Lore Warden 2 dip
I don't see how a magus would benefit from taking lore warden, at all. If you want to dip anything, either take one level of bloodrager (for rage ability), or sorcerer (for crossblooded), or wizard (for divination rerolls). Although magus/20 is a solid build all by itself.

[deuxhero]

Bladebound's worth depends on your campaign. While losing losing a single arcana is minor (Remember though that losing your first one delays taking extra arcana) the weapon lags behind WBL weapons pretty quick . Losing some arcane pool hurts too, though you no longer have to worry about Spell Recall using up your points with hexcrafter.

I'd say losing the option for a familiar sucks on an intelligence based gish (who will thus have a familiar with passable HD, BAB and skills) though.

[stack]

Your DM may appreciate you not having spellstoring to top off your spellstrike critical doom fest.

You are only one level from getting spell recall back, so arcane pool is nice. Still a ways from regenerating the arcane pool with the black blade though.

[(Un)Inspired]

If you get samsaran approved I think taking the cure line if spells is a waste.

A waste of your actions in combat and a waste of possibly the strongest racial feature. Instead I would take stuff like Major creation, fabricate, and greater Planar binding. Stuff that increases your utility an power pretty greatly.

[Zubrowka74]

A level-10 magus has about 8 pool, a level-10 bladebound has about 6. It's not a big deal; most arcana that cost a lot of pool points aren't that impressive anyway.

Ok, "Gimps" is perhaps a strong word but around level 3/4 levels it hurts a bit.


I don't see how a magus would benefit from taking lore warden, at all.

It gives 3 feats, on of which is a prereq to other. Plus BAB and HP. But I'm bringing this up because it's mentioned in the guide I linked to. Never said that Magus 20 wasn't a good deal.

[NightbringerGGZ]

If you get Samsaran approved there are much better options for your spells. For healing wand use it is better to take the Pragmatic Activator (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/traits/magic-traits/pragmatic-activator) trait and just have a really high UMD score. One of my favorites to get on a Magus is Touch of Gracelessness as a way to disable enemies. I usually prep that twice, prep Shocking Grasp twice and use a pocket full of Pearls of Power to recharge between combats.

If you don't get to play a Samsaran, Human and Elf are both good options. Like going Human for the bonus feat and the favored class bonus (1/4 of a AP). By level 8 you'll have the AP you lose from going Bladebound back. I like picking up the Nemesis story feat as well, as that allows you to grab an extra hit point and the bonus AP with an extra +2 to an ability score of your choice when you kill your nemesis.

[GreyBlack]

A build I've been working on is a cross between Dimensional Dervish and Eldritch Scion, taking advantage of the self-buffing provided by the Arcane bloodline and the mobility provided by the Dimensional line. So far, limited success, but certainly intriguing. I'll post deets later, but definitely an intriguing concept.

[Dayaz]

It is very VERY good since you get basically SLAs that don't expend your spell slots as well as abilities that aren't on your spell list. And while Bladebound hits your Arcana reservoir hard, you gain permanent bonusses because your weapon is always a bit ahead of the curve (meaning you have to spend less points to overcome DR).



If you're not going to go Dex Magus you'll blow most spell slots on Mirror Image since the Str Magus is easier to hit. Our Str Bladebound Hexcrafter was really good (also 25 pb) but she came dangerously close to dying several times and would've died if it weren't for our Cleric. She was also part of the reason my Cavalier retrained heavily into Paladin (healing, the other part being us fighting undead, demons, devils and daemons 75% of the time).

I'd go "Magical Lineage: Shocking Grasp" as trait and take Intensify Spell on 5 making your Shocking Grasps scale up to 10d6 while still occupying a 1st level spell slot. We also agreed that the "Close Range" Arcana is a must-have for later levels (where you don't get any touch spells to use with spellstrike but several ray attacks).

Haven't dabbled in the Magus myself that heavily but I hope I could be of assistance.

I think I get the gist of what your saying, but we don't play with traits... I suppose i could blow a feat on Extra Traits to get it, but my DM doesn't really see the point of them.


Read the Guide (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/extras/community-creations/-walter-s-lab/embedded-magus)! The DEX version w/ scimitar and all seems the obvious choice for a first time. Bladebound, although it gimps the things you can do with your arcane pool, gets you neat stuff. You don't have to spends money on a magic weapon and your black blade will be indestructible most of the time.

Just don't take the Lore Warden 2 dip if you're starting at level 1. You'll hit a transition phase around level 5/6 where you'll be behind, a squishy melee with only level 1 spells.

I read the guide, and I really didn't get a lot of the more 'obvious' things he mentions. It should be mentioned, I think I've played exactly 2 spellcasters beyond a few pbp games that died. I don't understand a lot of what spellcasters can get up too.

Then again, the main reason I never get to play with spells is because I usually let my friends use their character ideas for spellcasters because if I don't they tend to act crappy and don't want to play (but there's currently no actual spellcasters of any distinction in my current group, so booyah)


A level-10 magus has about 8 pool, a level-10 bladebound has about 6. It's not a big deal; most arcana that cost a lot of pool points aren't that impressive anyway.


I don't see how a magus would benefit from taking lore warden, at all. If you want to dip anything, either take one level of bloodrager (for rage ability), or sorcerer (for crossblooded), or wizard (for divination rerolls). Although magus/20 is a solid build all by itself.

What exactly am I supposed to use in teh Crossblooded thing?:smallconfused: It just doesn't mean anything to me as is. I'm mainly trying to do this with as few dips as possible. Also, the bloodrager can't use spells during a rage til level 4 when they get their spells, and even then I think they can't only use Bloodrager Spells during a Bloodrage.


If you get samsaran approved I think taking the cure line if spells is a waste.

A waste of your actions in combat and a waste of possibly the strongest racial feature. Instead I would take stuff like Major creation, fabricate, and greater Planar binding. Stuff that increases your utility an power pretty greatly.

Maybe to you, but my group doesn't really have a lot of 'down time' so being able to use healing wands really easily will help us more than me wasting gold trying to bind an outsider to fight for a few hours. Also, how is Fabricate or major Creation more useful than a Healing spell at all?


If you get Samsaran approved there are much better options for your spells. For healing wand use it is better to take the Pragmatic Activator (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/traits/magic-traits/pragmatic-activator) trait and just have a really high UMD score. One of my favorites to get on a Magus is Touch of Gracelessness as a way to disable enemies. I usually prep that twice, prep Shocking Grasp twice and use a pocket full of Pearls of Power to recharge between combats.

If you don't get to play a Samsaran, Human and Elf are both good options. Like going Human for the bonus feat and the favored class bonus (1/4 of a AP). By level 8 you'll have the AP you lose from going Bladebound back. I like picking up the Nemesis story feat as well, as that allows you to grab an extra hit point and the bonus AP with an extra +2 to an ability score of your choice when you kill your nemesis.

Except my group doesn't play with traits, so I'd have to use a feat to get that one. There might be better uses really, but this will help the group (I'm partial to Tasha's Hideous Laughter myself). PoP will be an item I will own I know for sure, bu t like I said, it's the Out of Combat healing we need help on. Our 'healer' can only use healing spells like... 6 times? maybe? and with a 5-6 person party that just isn't enough. The other person making a character might be playing a cleric, but I'm making my character under teh current assumption that he isn't.



I'm fairly sure my dm is going to allow Samsaran, so How would you set up stats for a Dex based Samasaran with a 25ph at level 10?

[(Un)Inspired]

By all means, use healing wands. Learning cure spells is just about the most inefficient way to go about that.

Why have an outsider fight for you for a few hours when you can bind them for much, much longer? Why have 1 fight for you when you can have a dozen? He'll, you can bind a few angels to do all your healing for you.

Major creation and fabricate can create any item you need. Need a ship for a sea voyage? A castle? A shovel? A ladder ? Shelter from the rain? A dining hall? Food? Alcohol? Poison? They can create them.

[Kurald Galain]

What exactly am I supposed to use in teh Crossblooded thing?:smallconfused:
You ignore the entire class except where it gives you a +18 damage bonus to shocking grasp.


Also, the bloodrager can't use spells during a rage til level 4 when they get their spells,
It's not about the spells, it's about the +2 to hit and damage (plus minor bloodline power to taste). Basically any melee class benefits from rage ability; if you're dex based, you could instead take barbarian since it has archetypes that boost dex.

I'm not saying you need to dip anything; but if you do want to dip, these are some strong options.


it's the Out of Combat healing we need help on. Our 'healer' can only use healing spells like... 6 times? maybe? and with a 5-6 person party that just isn't enough.
Since you're a hexcrafter anyway, how about taking the healing hex?


I'm fairly sure my dm is going to allow Samsaran, so How would you set up stats for a Dex based Samasaran with a 25ph at level 10?
For example, str 7, dex 20, con 12, int 16, wis 11, cha 8. Then get a magic belt of dexterity +4, and add your favored class bonuses to hit points. Dex is your god stat: it adds to hit, damage, armor class, init, ref save, and probably some of your best skills.

[NightbringerGGZ]

Btw, how much starting gold do you have?

So a 25 point buy Samasaran and you want to have Hexes? This means that a high Int is going to be very important and starting at level 10 you'll have +2 attribute points to distribute. How about the following stat spread?

Str: 13 Dex: 17 Con: 12 Int: 18 Wis: 10 Cha: 7

This nets you 5 spells from other classes at first level, allowing you to pick up Cure Light Wounds for your wand. You'll still have 4 spells to pick up from all the arcane classes, I'd really suggest getting some nice utility or additional tricks. With 13 strength you can pick up Power Attack and you're all set for a Dervish Dance build. Remember to put two skill ranks into Perform: Dance to qualify.

I know you said you'll have to pay a feat tax to get traits, but the most common Magus trick actually relies on a trait. You want to grab Magical Lineage (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/traits/magic-traits/magical-lineage) and apply it to Shocking Grasp so you can be casting Intensified Shocking Grasps as a first level spell. This is the bread & butter spell for most Magi. Consider picking up Additional Traits (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/additional-traits). You have 6 feats so this should be doable.

[Kurald Galain]

So a 25 point buy Samasaran and you want to have Hexes? This means that a high Int is going to be very important
That depends. You could also take non-offensive hexes like Flight and Healing. For a Magus it's generally better to get spells with attack rolls instead of spells (or hexes) with saving throws; if you want to base your character on save-or-suck effects then going full Witch is better.

Also, why get a 13 strength? The score does literally nothing for you. For dex characters, there's Piranha Strike instead of Power Attack.

[NightbringerGGZ]

That depends. You could also take non-offensive hexes like Flight and Healing. For a Magus it's generally better to get spells with attack rolls instead of spells (or hexes) with saving throws; if you want to base your character on save-or-suck effects then going full Witch is better.

Also, why get a 13 strength? The score does literally nothing for you. For dex characters, there's Piranha Strike instead of Power Attack.

Power Attack. You can't use Piranha strike with any weapons that can have a Dex to Damage feat applied to them. His GM might also actually use the weight rules, in which case a 7 Strength is a huge problem.

[Kurald Galain]

Power Attack. You can't use Piranha strike with any weapons that can have a Dex to Damage feat applied to them.
Fair point. Ok, use Arcane Strike instead of Power Attack, then. That and a higher dexterity should give you the same damage without a to-hit penalty. PA only adds +4 damage at level 10 anyway; the feat is meant for full-BAB two-handed style.


His GM might also actually use the weight rules, in which case a 7 Strength is a huge problem.
Not at level 10; bags of holding are very cheap.

[GreyBlack]

Fair point. Ok, use Arcane Strike instead of Power Attack, then. That and a higher dexterity should give you the same damage without a to-hit penalty. PA only adds +4 damage at level 10 anyway; the feat is meant for full-BAB two-handed style.


Not at level 10; bags of holding are very cheap.

Adding a permanent +4 to damage is still useful, and doesn't cost an action. I agree that arcane strike should be there,but doesn't mean you can't grab both.

[stack]

Arcane strike uses a swift action each round. You need your swifts too often to want to spend a feat on arcane strike.

[The Random NPC]

I'd talk to your GM about whether Spell Perfection (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/spell-perfection) doubles Intensified Spell (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/metamagic-feats/intensified-spell-metamagic).

[Kurald Galain]

Adding a permanent +4 to damage is still useful, and doesn't cost an action.
Ah, but it's not a permanent +4:

13 str / 17 dex / power attack gives you +1 to hit (plus BAB and weapon, of course), +7 to damage. Whereas 7 str / 20 dex gives you +5 to hit, +5 to damage, and saves you a feat. So it's actually a +2 to damage, at the cost of -4 to hit.


Arcane strike uses a swift action each round. You need your swifts too often to want to spend a feat on arcane strike.
That depends on your choice of arcana. There's several good ones that are a free action.

[NightbringerGGZ]

I usually combo Arcane Strike & Power Attack. I'm assuming a Dex build using Dervish Dance, and with Black Blade you should spend your first Swift Action to enhance your blade to +5 Keen. Assuming a +2 Dex belt, you'll have a +15/+10 on your attack rolls when power attacking. You'll probably cast a buffing spell and move towards combat on round one as well. On round 2 you'll get to combo Power Attack, Arcane Strike and maybe a spell strike (if you precast Shocking Grasp).