Is it possible to gain access to the Lich template BEFORE level 11?

[Ephemeral_Being]

Straight out of the SRD:


"Lich" is an acquired template that can be added to any humanoid creature (referred to hereafter as the base creature), provided it can create the required phylactery.

An integral part of becoming a lich is creating a magic phylactery in which the character stores its life force. As a rule, the only way to get rid of a lich for sure is to destroy its phylactery. Unless its phylactery is located and destroyed, a lich reappears 1d10 days after its apparent death.

Each lich must make its own phylactery, which requires the Craft Wondrous Item feat. The character must be able to cast spells and have a caster level of 11th or higher. The phylactery costs 120,000 gp and 4,800 XP to create and has a caster level equal to that of its creator at the time of creation.

Alright. So, I figured there HAS to be a way to increase a character's caster level. Here's the most complete list that I can find. (http://community.wizards.com/forum/previous-editions-character-optimization/threads/1054346) That table is a MESS, though, and I don't know what stacks. Which is why I'm here, asking for help.

My question, then, is this. Assuming I have access to seventh level WBL (19,000 gp), is it possible to gain access to the Lich template? If it matters, I intended to do this with a Bard. Meaning the character's build at level 7 would be Bard 6/Lich 1. All I'm really looking for (I think, someone correct me if I'm wrong) is +5 Caster Level.

The reason I ask is that according to the Savage Species Progression (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20031212a), taking the FIRST rank of Lich doesn't carry an EXP cost OR a GP cost. Now, you don't technically have a Phylactery at that point, so you're not immortal. BUT you do gain access to the initial bonuses which aren't bad at all. And it would be interesting to roleplay, I think.

So. Can anyone help me out?

[Snowbluff]

Well, you can use that money to make more money to make more money... Scrolls of Wall of Iron? Then use your money to raise your CL via items.

[atemu1234]

Don't forget Ioun Stones.

[Ephemeral_Being]

Don't forget Ioun Stones.

That's 30,000 right there, for +1 Caster Level. So we're looking at 150,000 total, or over 7x the allotted gold.

My goal was to hand this to a GM, and explain that RAW it's an entirely legal build. Not one that requires me to spend the first two weeks of the campaign making money to do. If that's not possible, okay. I can accept that. But I'm far from an expert on optimizing characters, and I figured someone here might have a quick suggestion on how to make it work.

The biggest problem I'm running into is that most of the items and feats target either a specific spell, or a specific school of magic. Unfortunately, neither of those are specified by the requirements for becoming a Lich. Which implies to me it's asking for an innate caster level of 11. Ioun Stones certainly increase that, but I can't find anything else that does. And certainly not cheaply.

[Deophaun]

Take Practiced Spellcaster and hire an exalted 9th-level bard to perform for you while you make it. That covers 4 of them.

[Kazyan]

Cool thing about Duergar:


Spell-Like Abilities: 1/day—enlarge person and invisibility as a wizard of twice the duergar’s class level (minimum caster level 3rd); these abilities affect only the duergar and whatever it carries.

...but it's probably no good if you're entering via Bard.

[KillianHawkeye]

Cool thing about Duergar:

Damn, you beat me to it. And I thought I was being pretty sneaky when I figured that little trick out. :smallamused:

[ShurikVch]

Shyft - planetouched from Fiend Folio - have 1/day Ethereal Jaunt SLA at CL 9
Make lesser planetouched to change type to humanoid (and remove LA +3 :smallamused: )
Terran Brandy (from the Book of Vile Darkness) give you temporary +2 CL, for only 500 gp
Caster level 11 at character level 1

[Hecuba]

Arcane Thesis [pyrotechnics] +2
Bloodline of Fire +2

And any +1 feat that applies to pyrotechnics, like Calishi/t/e Elementalist [fire]

[P.F.]

The biggest problem I'm running into is that most of the items and feats target either a specific spell, or a specific school of magic. Unfortunately, neither of those are specified by the requirements for becoming a Lich. Which implies to me it's asking for an innate caster level of 11.

RAW only requires "be able to cast spells at a caster level of 11th or higher" without specifying what spells those might or might not be. So technically, if you can cast any spell (or arguably, any two spells) at CL 11+, you're good to go. If your DM is like me or the other DM's I play with , however, the response to that is going to be, "Haha, no, go make a new character."

Ultimately, it depends on how liberal your DM will be with the requisites. +Caster Level is heady stuff, and you'll be hard pressed to find anything that isn't extremely expensive or extremely limited, or both.

That said, we can still get pretty close:

The 2nd-level wizard spell Create Magic Tattoo (from PGtF), at 13th caster level, can give you a tattoo of a heart encircled with a ribbon bearing the letters M O M. Having this tattoo gives you a +1 untyped bonus to ...(it's worded strangely but the net result is your caster level is one higher). It only lasts a day, so you'll need a reliable caster to take your money each day you need it. However, since Savage Species doesn't specify any time requirements for the first level of lich (they are only implied with the Craft Item for levels 2 and above), you only need one to start. Cost of NPC spellcasting services for 2nd-level spells is CL(13th)*20 gp = 260 gp.

Terran brandy (from the BoVD), is cheap and only moderately addictive, but if you need that boost for the 8 hrs a day plus to craft your phylactery, you're going to be S.O.L. on level 2 lichdom. Again, no time requirement on first level, so lets call that your another +2 caster level, which is an alchemical bonus and will stack with anything. Cost: 500 gp/snifter.

So that's +3 for a pretty minimal investment. Perhaps you could argue that the Ring of Spell Enhancement (from EtCR) is adequate for your purposes; it grants +2 untyped bonus to caster level for the next spell cast, and costs a little over 10K.

Dark Speech (form IFWB), if you meet the prerequisites, will net you an additional +1 untyped. Not sure where you'll make up the last +1, perhaps there's a race or a PrC that will help you.

So, long story short, it may be do-able, but it'll definitely take some doing.

[Ephemeral_Being]

RAW only requires "be able to cast spells at a caster level of 11th or higher" without specifying what spells those might or might not be. So technically, if you can cast any spell (or arguably, any two spells) at CL 11+, you're good to go. If your DM is like me or the other DM's I play with , however, the response to that is going to be, "Haha, no, go make a new character."

Ultimately, it depends on how liberal your DM will be with the requisites. +Caster Level is heady stuff, and you'll be hard pressed to find anything that isn't extremely expensive or extremely limited, or both.

I don't get to play much, tbh. I end up DMing, because I don't like how other people do it. So, on the off-chance I DO get a chance to participate in a campaign, I try to make the characters memorable. I thought I'd at least bring it up, if I could find a way.


That said, we can still get pretty close:

The 2nd-level wizard spell Create Magic Tattoo (from PGtF), at 13th caster level, can give you a tattoo of a heart encircled with a ribbon bearing the letters M O M. Having this tattoo gives you a +1 untyped bonus to ...(it's worded strangely but the net result is your caster level is one higher). It only lasts a day, so you'll need a reliable caster to take your money each day you need it. However, since Savage Species doesn't specify any time requirements for the first level of lich (they are only implied with the Craft Item for levels 2 and above), you only need one to start. Cost of NPC spellcasting services for 2nd-level spells is CL(13th)*20 gp = 260 gp.

Terran brandy (from the BoVD), is cheap and only moderately addictive, but if you need that boost for the 8 hrs a day plus to craft your phylactery, you're going to be S.O.L. on level 2 lichdom. Again, no time requirement on first level, so lets call that your another +2 caster level, which is an alchemical bonus and will stack with anything. Cost: 500 gp/snifter.

Okay, I found both of these. And they would work. So we're at 9 now.


So that's +3 for a pretty minimal investment. Perhaps you could argue that the Ring of Spell Enhancement (from EtCR) is adequate for your purposes; it grants +2 untyped bonus to caster level for the next spell cast, and costs a little over 10K.

I don't know what that abbreviation means. So I can't look it up. What book did you mean?


Dark Speech (form IFWB), if you meet the prerequisites, will net you an additional +1 untyped. Not sure where you'll make up the last +1, perhaps there's a race or a PrC that will help you.

Again, not sure what book this is. I found Dark Speech in Fiendish Codex, but that's not even related to what you're talking about.

Mind telling what books to look in for those last two?

[Hecuba]

Etcr = expedition to castle ravenloft
Not sure about ifwb

Edit: Do'oh. I Forget What Book
And here I was looking for another version of Dark speech to figure out what the book was.

[P.F.]

Found it. Dark Speech, from the Book of Vile Dorkness, although iirc the one from Fiend Codex is the same. The Feat does about 30 different things; the text reads "can use Dark Speech [blah blah] to help cast evil spells [blah blah] [see Chapter 2.]" The section in Chapter 2 says characters can use this feat to incorporate Dark Speech into an evil spell with a verbal component for +1 caster level, or increase the caster level of an evil magic item during item creation. It's a profane bonus which would stack with the alchemical bonus etc, but only for evil spells/items.

Not sure if a strict RAW interpretation has liching oneself as an evil spell, or even that the phylactery is an [evil] item. I would personally infer that it is, but then again, RAW specifies "be able to cast spells at a caster level of 11th or higher," and evil spells are still spells.

[Kraken]

Create magic tattoo was reprinted in the Spell Compendium FYI, I'd use that version. The Spell Compendium also has a spell that's aptly named "spell enhancer." 4th level wizard spell, swift action to cast, and it increases the caster level of the next spell you cast this round by 2 (and its save DC by 1). Because you can hypothetically use spell enhancer on any spell that you can cast (probably with some limited exceptions), between it and create magic tattoo, there's an easy +3.

[Crake]

Ok, so you've got CL 11, where are you getting that 120k for the phylactery?

[ericgrau]

2nd to last paragraph of post 1.

Lich does seem useful on a bard or gish. It has a lot of defensive, skill and attack abilities.

[Ephemeral_Being]

Ok, so you've got CL 11, where are you getting that 120k for the phylactery?

That's the thing; I'm not. At least, not in the initial build.

First rank of Lich from Savage Species adds 2 to Init, Nat AC, and INT. Plus an additional two points to Hide/Listen/Move Silently/Search/Spot/Sense Motive. The Touch Attack with paralysis is actually pretty bad, but it has theoretical uses. Best part is, the first Lich level doesn't have a gold cost.

Most of those are great bonuses to a class like the Bard. But the goal is to eventually get a Phylactery.

The raison d'être behind the character (backstory-wise) is to BE the tragic hero. The one who makes the heroic last stand, allowing the rest of the party to escape. And then to immortalize himself in song and story. He IS the hero of a thousand faces. That's where this idea came from. I needed a way to survive being bludgeoned to death by a horde of undead. And, well, this was what I came up with.

[Zantaotes]

That's 30,000 right there, for +1 Caster Level. So we're looking at 150,000 total, or over 7x the allotted gold.

My goal was to hand this to a GM, and explain that RAW it's an entirely legal build. Not one that requires me to spend the first two weeks of the campaign making money to do. If that's not possible, okay. I can accept that. But I'm far from an expert on optimizing characters, and I figured someone here might have a quick suggestion on how to make it work.

The biggest problem I'm running into is that most of the items and feats target either a specific spell, or a specific school of magic. Unfortunately, neither of those are specified by the requirements for becoming a Lich. Which implies to me it's asking for an innate caster level of 11. Ioun Stones certainly increase that, but I can't find anything else that does. And certainly not cheaply.

Elder Giant Magic (Secrets of Xen'drik)
or Reserves of Strength? (Dragonlance)
Both of these don't have the problem of 'specific spell or school' just require you to make concentration checks, and stun yourself when you cast a spell, respectively.

don't know if they'd work for your purposes, but thought they were worth mentioning, you know, 2 feats for +6 CL...

[Ephemeral_Being]

Elder Giant Magic (Secrets of Xen'drik)
or Reserves of Strength? (Dragonlance)
Both of these don't have the problem of 'specific spell or school' just require you to make concentration checks, and stun yourself when you cast a spell, respectively.

don't know if they'd work for your purposes, but thought they were worth mentioning, you know, 2 feats for +6 CL...

Very cool! That's exactly the kind of thing I was looking for. Thanks.

[M Placeholder]

From a post I wiped beforehand, and the response on the part of EB (My post in Blue, and his in Italics. Sorry, I was a bit confused)

The thing about heroic sacrifice is its never planned. You can't exactly plan for the behaviour of a horde of undead, nor the behaviour of your companions. Also, your character could die at any time, rather than as part of an unspeakable arcane ritual.

Speaking of them, what about if your companions react badly to you becoming a vile unnatural abomination? Or your DM rules that considering your character is now dead, tells you to create a new one? You should probably prepare for that.

What? No. That defeats the entire purpose. I'm not TELLING anyone about this. It's why I'm trying to make a character that is 100% legal RAW.

You play a Class X/Lich 2. Which gives you a Phylactery, meaning you can regenerate. But you're not undead yet. Or evil. So your party SHOULDN'T care all that much. At the first session, you hand a sealed envelope to the DM. If and when you pull off the heroic sacrifice, you tell him to open it. Which details how you gave one of your party members a ring, or amulet that you're going to regenerate out of.

You play the suicidal shock trooper. The guy who runs into a building with a book FULL of Explosive Runes, flips it open, and detonates himself. Or the one packing 200 flasks of Alchemist's Fire. Or something to that effect. You'll NEED to have a backup character to run while this one is regenerating. I think it's a fun idea. I can see this being a problem. But I want to try it.


Ah, gotcha.

[Invader]

Am I the only person that sees a distinction between "casts as a X level caster" and "is an X level caster"?

[Hecuba]

Am I the only person that sees a distinction between "casts as a X level caster" and "is an X level caster"?

No, but there is a further distinction between either of those and "casts spells with caster level x".
For example, an adult silver dragon, which casts as a level 5 sorcerer, can cast magic misile with a caster level of 1 of it so chooses.

[P.F.]

No, but there is a further distinction between either of those and "casts spells with caster level x".
For example, an adult silver dragon, which casts as a level 5 sorcerer, can cast magic misile with a caster level of 1 of it so chooses.

Indeed, it's even less than that, it's "be able to cast spells at caster level X." You don't ever have to cast or have cast any spells at any caster level at all, only to have the ability to do so if you wanted to.

[Deophaun]

The raison d'être behind the character (backstory-wise) is to BE the tragic hero. The one who makes the heroic last stand, allowing the rest of the party to escape. And then to immortalize himself in song and story. He IS the hero of a thousand faces. That's where this idea came from. I needed a way to survive being bludgeoned to death by a horde of undead. And, well, this was what I came up with.
There is something darkly funny about this whole thing. I imagine your bard, singing his legend anonymously in a tavern and being heckled by some of the patrons.

Patron 1: So, he didn't just teleport out?
Lich: Of course not! It wouldn't fit his idiom.
Patron 2: But being an undying mockery of life did?
Lich: You don't understand: he gave up his very humanity to save the kingdom!
Patron 1: He could have just paid for a contingency.
Lich: *paralyzing touch*