Piercing DR/Epic w/o magic

[Arcanist]

How does one go about doing this? As far as I know the only way to actually pierce DR/Epic is with an Epic weapon and the only way to get that is by making it magical. Now hopefully the devs considered this before making the colossus ("http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/monsters/colossus.htm) because if it does exist, I can't think of it.

[AmberVael]

1) Don't attack it with weapons. DR doesn't apply to non-weapon attacks. Dealing energy damage, or causing damage in some other manner, will bypass the DR.
2) Have epic damage reduction. If you have epic DR, your natural weapons count as epic for bypassing epic DR.
3) Be a factotum and use cunning breach.
4) Just hit harder. Colossi only have DR 20 at most, at epic levels that should be a mere drop in the bucket compared to what a character can do.

[Arcanist]

1) Don't attack it with weapons. DR doesn't apply to non-weapon attacks. Dealing energy damage, or causing damage in some other manner, will bypass the DR.
2) Have epic damage reduction. If you have epic DR, your natural weapons count as epic for bypassing epic DR.
3) Be a factotum and use cunning breach.
4) Just hit harder. Colossi only have DR 20 at most, at epic levels that should be a mere drop in the bucket compared to what a character can do.


Magic Immunity. Give me some non-magical ways to deal energy damage
Can I have a page reference for that? If this is true, you've just solved two of my problems.
Clever.

[OldTrees1]

Reread what Magic Immunity does. It does not prevent a +6 Sword or a +5 Construct Bane Sword from bypassing the DR.

[AmberVael]

Magic Immunity. Give me some non-magical ways to deal energy damage.
Lava buckets. Torches. Acid. Actual non-magical lightning bolts.

Stuff like this might seem hard to do but then you realize that an epic spellcaster fighting a magic immune creature can just open up a portal to the paraelemental plane of AUGHMYFACEISMELTING a good ways above the colossus (namely, out of range of the antimagic field) and then let gravity do the rest of the work. Other potential shenanigans are also available.


Can I have a page reference for that? If this is true, you've just solved two of my problems.
Monster Manual, page 307. Second to last paragraph on the page.

Also can be found here. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#damageReduction)

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Certain martial maneuvers automatically bypass DR, such as Mountain Hammer. You can find these in Tome of Battle.

Have a normal +5 magic weapon with a single level of Arcane Duelist (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20030224a).

The Weapon of Transmutation in the Miniatures Handbook is a +1 longsword that changes to overcome DR. Once you hit a creature with DR with it, starting on the next round it will overcome every type of DR that the creature had when you hit it. That lasts for ten rounds, or until you hit a creature with a different type of DR. It probably doesn't have to be a longsword. The magical property, including making it a +1 weapon, costs 50,000 gp. Note that this overcomes all types of DR, including X/- that normally cannot be overcome.

[Arcanist]

Reread what Magic Immunity does. It does not prevent a +6 Sword or a +5 Construct Bane Sword from bypassing the DR.


Antimagic Field (Ex)

A colossus constantly generates an antimagic field in a 100-foot-radius. The field is an invisible barrier that is impervious to most magical effects, including spells, spell-like abilities, and supernatural abilities. Likewise, it prevents the functioning of any magic items or spells within its confines, except for the colossus’s own supernatural abilities. This effect is otherwise as an antimagic field cast by a 25th-level caster.

This is my problem.


Lava buckets. Torches. Acid. Actual non-magical lightning bolts.

Stuff like this might seem hard to do but then you realize that an epic spellcaster fighting a magic immune creature can just open up a portal to the paraelemental plane of AUGHMYFACEISMELTING a good ways above the colossus (namely, out of range of the antimagic field) and then let gravity do the rest of the work. Other potential shenanigans are also available.


Monster Manual, page 307. Second to last paragraph on the page.

Also can be found here. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#damageReduction)

Thank you everyone. You can go to bed now if your time zone allows it.

[Karl Aegis]

Not very many creatures (if any) have DR/Epic that provides significant protection against anything other than arrow volleys. The colossus isn't even that dangerous for its challenge rating. It doesn't do anything besides have a good chance to hit.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

It's true that its AMF will suppress magical weapons, thus preventing them from overcoming its DR. However, their DR only goes as high as 20 points, and an epic level melee character can easily Power Attack in excess of this. Certain builds could actually kill one of these in a single charge!

Martial maneuvers like Mountain Hammer still work to penetrate their DR, despite the AMF.

[Arcanist]

Not very many creatures (if any) have DR/Epic that provides significant protection against anything other than arrow volleys. The colossus isn't even that dangerous for its challenge rating. It doesn't do anything besides have a good chance to hit.

The problem was that I had created a special Flesh Golem that had intelligence and so I gave it feats and skills and all that stuff. Meaning it got about 100 levels worth of feats. My players browse this forum and I'd rather not give too much away.


It's true that its AMF will suppress magical weapons, thus preventing them from overcoming its DR. However, their DR only goes as high as 20 points, and an epic level melee character can easily Power Attack in excess of this. Certain builds could actually kill one of these in a single charge!

Martial maneuvers like Mountain Hammer still work to penetrate their DR, despite the AMF.

Running over the DR for this case was a viable option, but for what I had done to the monster, it wasn't entirely viable. I didn't know about the DR ruling which cleared up the problem quite nicely so there really isn't much to be said here. You all did excellent. Mountain Hammer would also work as well against a Flesh Colossus.

[ericgrau]

Not very many creatures (if any) have DR/Epic that provides significant protection against anything other than arrow volleys. The colossus isn't even that dangerous for its challenge rating. It doesn't do anything besides have a good chance to hit.
At epic levels even arrow volleys won't be hindered that much. Yes epic DR only helps a little.

A stone or iron colossus have an AMF plus DR/epic which is more of a bugger. Their ACs also make power attack difficult unless you use shock trooper or some such. But there's that and many other splatbook work-arounds that the ELH and core didn't expect. Their lack of flight at epic level and poor damage does make them a low threat outside of melee. They are hard to hurt at range but not impossible, again with splatbook work-arounds or even some weaker core tricks not affected by an AMF.

A flesh colossus is easier because there's no AMF. I wouldn't worry much. Their main issue is their frightful presence for anyone who might fail a DC 35 will save. But its extreme range is actually a bit of a drawback unless the PCs teleport in, because by the time they actually reach the colossus they'll have plenty of time to cast remove fear or some such.

If I were making an encounter such a slow moving thing with a mile radius ability seems like it would be much more fun if it was headed for a populated area. Then the real concern is not defeating it so much as noticing it before it gets within a mile of civilization... when the PCs might not even be looking for it. Or minimizing its damage after it hits civilization. And if you want more plot then figure out who sent it and why. And how did he get it there? Is there a way to get it out before it is destroyed? Maybe it's part of a greater plan to cause chaos while he does X. Even if it's easy to defeat it could be a great distraction or delay tactic, since it takes a long time to kill. After all "Only a master necromancer of surpassing power can create a flesh colossus."

[mvpmack]

Bull rush or otherwise forcibly move it into a prismatic wall or sphere. He's only got a STR of 70!

It sounded like a much smarter idea when I first thought of it...

[ericgrau]

Bull rush or otherwise forcibly move it into a prismatic wall or sphere. He's only got a STR of 70!

It sounded like a much smarter idea when I first thought of it...

Also magic immune.

[AmberVael]

Since you're the DM and in charge of such things, its probably worth bringing up that the Magic Immunity should really be updated to Spell Immunity, (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#spellImmunity) which functions a little differently. Mainly, it doesn't block all magic, just magic that has to deal with spell resistance. It makes more sense in the system and would also open up options like using long range Orb spells against the colossus.