Can wish, by raw, allow time travel?

[Pinkie Pyro]

This line:



Seems to imply it weakly, insofar that "regardless of local conditions." would apply to the condition "Location in the future" if attempting to travel to a location that is in the future.

Although: "place those creatures anywhere else on any plane" weakly implies physical location, so I'm not sure.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

It can duplicate spells, which per magic/psionics transparency means it can duplicate psionic powers. You can emulate Time Hop (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/timeHop.htm) (Mass (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/timeHopMass.htm)) to travel forward in time. Time Regression (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/timeRegression.htm) can be used to travel back in time by a single round, but Wish generally doesn't mimic 9th level spells without certain... risks.

You could use it to duplicate the 'save game' trick:
Summary:
With this trick one is able to create "save" game points, with a minimal cost of 15 XP. The point allows one to adventure for a day and then reload the save game point if something went awry.

Ingredients:
Forced Dream (Magic of Eberron)
Anticipatory Strike (Complete Psionic)
Time Hop
Psionic Contingency
A psi-crystal
Status
Imbue Spell-like Ability
Sending Stones (Magic Item) (Complete Arcane)

Forced Dream: Psion/Wilder 3
[paraphrased]Any time during the rounds/level duration (or minutes per level with 4 pp augment), you can spend a swift action to restart your turn. "When this effect is used, everyone and everything is reset to the state they were at when the subject's turn began. Any spells or abilities used are available again, any damage dealt is healed , any effects incurred are negated, any objects or creatures moved are reset to their original position, and so on. The only exception to this is that any power points spent to manifest forced dream are not recovered..." The power ends when the swift action to do this is expended or when the duration expired.

The Trick
Manifest psionic contingency on your psi-crystal placing a contingent ancipatory strike on him contingent on the event: returns to the normal timestream from a time hop.
Share metamorphosis with your psi-crystal. Transform him into something that isn't immune to mind-affecting compulsions. Heck you could transform him into an object of any size if you wish. Have the party cleric use imbue spell-like ability on the psi-crsytal so that it can use the spell status. Mix with affinity field if you wish the psi-crystal to have knowledge of all party members' condition.

The Psi-crystal casts status on you or whatever party member you choose. This person's condition will determine whether or not the save-game will be reloaded, so choose carefully.

Manifest forced dream on your psicrystal at some time before you fear harm will befall you. Ready a std action to manifest time hop mass contingent when the psi-crystal moves (tell him to do so), advancing him hours / level ahead in time. With enough ML you can advance your psi-crystal nearly a day. Adventure on your merry way, whilst your psi-crystal is outside the time stream.

If your party succumbs to a TPK, your psi-crystal will still be alive and kicking the next day. No time will pass for him and when he comes out of the time hop the contingency will grant him sufficient actions to check the status of the party (provided they are on the same plane as the psi-crystal). The psi-crystal may also use a sending stone to ask whether his master would like to reload or not. If the party member is under a certain condition or if the master tells the crystal to, the save game is reloaded as the psi-crystal spends a swift action to return to the beginning of his turn (which began with you manifesting time hop on him right before he started moving). You may now retry whatever you failed to accomplish. There is a 5% error in the sending transmition if you are not on the same plane as the psi-crystal and the status effect will not work across planes.
???
Profit.

[OldTrees1]

Anywhere wish can do, anywhen is a different question and not necessarily within Wish's normal powers.

Teleport thru time is a 9th level spell and only allows traveling backwards through time and requires some untouched ground as a material component(which might be impossible depending on circumstances).

[ben-zayb]

Ask your DM (to not **** your PC up when you attempt to)

It's technically doable via this line:

You may try to use a wish to produce greater effects than these, but doing so is dangerous. (The wish may pervert your intent into a literal but undesirable fulfillment or only a partial fulfillment.)

[Emperor Tippy]

It can duplicate spells, which per magic/psionics transparency means it can duplicate psionic powers.
That is not actually true. While a common misconception, all that magic/psionic transparency means is:


When the rule about psionics-magic transparency is in effect, it has the following ramifications.

Spell resistance is effective against powers, using the same mechanics. Likewise, power resistance is effective against spells, using the same mechanics as spell resistance. If a creature has one kind of resistance, it is assumed to have the other. (The effects have similar ends despite having been brought about by different means.)

All spells that dispel magic have equal effect against powers of the same level using the same mechanics, and vice versa.

The spell detect magic detects powers, their number, and their strength and location within 3 rounds (though a Psicraft check is necessary to identify the discipline of the psionic aura).

Dead magic areas are also dead psionics areas.

That is the sum totality of what Magic/Psionic transparency means under the rules. You can't RAW legally use Wish to emulate any psionic powers.

[Hiro Quester]

The "made it never have happened" version allows you to basically go back in time one round, and undo something that just happened.


Undo misfortune. A wish can undo a single recent event.

But this just forces a reroll of a save etc. it's not nothing.

[Taveena]

The spell 'Teleport Through Time' is a ninth level spell. As Wish can't mimic 9ths... I think it's impossible?

[EyethatBinds]

It depends on how you phrase the wish in my games. I don't screw with all wishes, and I try to remember that it IS a 9th level spell that costs 5,000 experience to cast. So I try to screw with every wish, I just assume the magic takes the shortest point between your current state and the result you wished for.

So how would you word your time travel wish?

[AvatarVecna]

Wish
Universal
Level: Sor/Wiz 9
Components: V, XP
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: See text
Target, Effect, or Area: See text
Duration: See text
Saving Throw: See text
Spell Resistance: Yes

Wish is the mightiest spell a wizard or sorcerer can cast. By simply speaking aloud, you can alter reality to better suit you.

Even wish, however, has its limits.

A wish can produce any one of the following effects.

Duplicate any wizard or sorcerer spell of 8th level or lower, provided the spell is not of a school prohibited to you.

Duplicate any other spell of 6th level or lower, provided the spell is not of a school prohibited to you.

Duplicate any wizard or sorcerer spell of 7th level or lower even if it’s of a prohibited school.

Duplicate any other spell of 5th level or lower even if it’s of a prohibited school.

Undo the harmful effects of many other spells, such as Geas/Quest or Insanity.

Create a nonmagical item of up to 25,000 gp in value.

Create a magic item, or add to the powers of an existing magic item.

Grant a creature a +1 inherent bonus to an ability score. Two to five wish spells cast in immediate succession can grant a creature a +2 to +5 inherent bonus to an ability score (two wishes for a +2 inherent bonus, three for a +3 inherent bonus, and so on). Inherent bonuses are instantaneous, so they cannot be dispelled. Note: An inherent bonus may not exceed +5 for a single ability score, and inherent bonuses to a particular ability score do not stack, so only the best one applies.

Remove injuries and afflictions. A single wish can aid one creature per caster level, and all subjects are cured of the same kind of affliction. For example, you could heal all the damage you and your companions have taken, or remove all poison effects from everyone in the party, but not do both with the same wish. A wish can never restore the experience point loss from casting a spell or the level or Constitution loss from being raised from the dead.

Revive the dead. A wish can bring a dead creature back to life by duplicating a Resurrection spell. A wish can revive a dead creature whose body has been destroyed, but the task takes two wishes, one to recreate the body and another to infuse the body with life again. A wish cannot prevent a character who was brought back to life from losing an experience level.

Transport travelers. A wish can lift one creature per caster level from anywhere on any plane and place those creatures anywhere else on any plane regardless of local conditions. An unwilling target gets a Will save to negate the effect, and spell resistance (if any) applies.

Undo misfortune. A wish can undo a single recent event. The wish forces a reroll of any roll made within the last round (including your last turn). Reality reshapes itself to accommodate the new result. For example, a wish could undo an opponent’s successful save, a foe’s successful critical hit (either the attack roll or the critical roll), a friend’s failed save, and so on. The reroll, however, may be as bad as or worse than the original roll. An unwilling target gets a Will save to negate the effect, and spell resistance (if any) applies.

You may try to use a wish to produce greater effects than these, but doing so is dangerous. (The wish may pervert your intent into a literal but undesirable fulfillment or only a partial fulfillment.)

By RAW: Wish cannot be used to achieve unlisted effects without opening you up to possible consequences; among the things it can't do consequence-free is duplicate 9th lvl spells. I'm fairly certain that Teleport Through Time (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/pg/20030402b) is 3.0 material that was grandfather'd into 3.5 (seeing as the 3rd part of the same article details the Epic Spell version of TTT, and Epic Spellcasting is 3.0 only), making it a 3.5 legal spell, and thus, not something Wish can duplicate consequence-free. And no, I don't think that using the "transportation" use of Wish to travel through time abides by RAW or RAI.

Emperor Tippy is absolutely correct in saying that Wish can't duplicate psionics by RAW; that said, there's an argument that the RAI of the spell supports it (seeing as those effects fall within the RAI power cap set by the existing effects). My only other note on using Wish for time travel is that I would allow it...but not consequence -free: be it arriving at a time other than the intended arrival time, arriving unclothed ala Terminator, or having to deal with paradoxes and past selves, I would find a way to make the Wish more troublesome than it usually would be, just to emphasize how dangerous time travel can be.

As for travelling to the future...well, even Teleport Through Time only allows you to travel to the past. The one potentially RAW-legal way I can see to travel to the future (besides Wish and Miracle abuse) is the Epic Spell version of TTT (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/pg/20030416b). That said, it's a long shot: this Epic Spell opens a portal to the past, but doesn't allow the caster to open a portal to the future; that said, depending on how "portal" is defined (I'm pretty sure the "Create Portal" feat required to cast this Epic Spell defined the word "portal", but I can't find it anywhere), the spell might open a hole at both ends, allowing passage between the two points. Unfortunately, even if this works by RAW (which isn't a guarantee), there's still some problems pulling it off: to make this work a character must...

1) Know that a future epic spellcaster is going to cast Create Time Portal around the time period you wish to visit.

2) Know where they are going to cast the spell (and thus, where the portal will appear).

3) Must be able to travel to that spatial location before the portal appears.

4) Must make their way through time Time Portal before it closes (if it ever closes).

5) Must somehow convince the epic spellcaster coming from the other end not to destroy them for somehow knowing where/when to find them when they're attempting time travel.

If all of that works out, you could travel to the future...maybe. I'm not entirely sure it's possible, but it might be, and that's as close to a defined and RAW-legal method as I could find.

[Psyren]

That is not actually true. While a common misconception, all that magic/psionic transparency means is:



That is the sum totality of what Magic/Psionic transparency means under the rules. You can't RAW legally use Wish to emulate any psionic powers.

You can actually. Limited Wish contains a fairly broad clause:



Produce any other effect whose power level is in line with the above effects, such as a single creature automatically hitting on its next attack or taking a -7 penalty on its next saving throw.

A 5th-level power's effect "is in line with" a 5th-level spell - we know this from several sources, such as the Spell to Power Erudite, which treats the two types of level as being equivalent. So basically you use Wish to imitate Limited Wish (or better yet, just use the latter by itself) and you get access to psionic powers 5th and below. This includes handy effects like Psychic Reformation. Schism, and Forced Dream.

You can make a case for higher than 5th using Wish, which may be denied or unsafe, but definitely 5th and lower should work by RAW.

[Cruiser1]

You can actually. Limited Wish contains a fairly broad clause:
You can make a case for higher than 5th using Wish, which may be denied or unsafe, but definitely 5th and lower should work by RAW.
Indeed! Also, the full Wish spell concludes with "You may try to use a wish to produce greater effects than these, but doing so is dangerous. (The wish may pervert your intent into a literal but undesirable fulfillment or only a partial fulfillment.)" Note it says "greater effects" as opposed to "different effects". That suggests that wishing for something equivalent in power to the list of safe wishes should be granted, and not distorted.

Since Wish can "Duplicate any other spell of 5th level or lower even if it’s of a prohibited school." and psionic powers are effectively prohibited, that means Wish should be able to at least duplicate 5th level psionic powers (along with other things that aren't of greater power than a 5th level spell, such as 5th level Shadowcaster mysteries, Truenamer utterances, and Artificer infusions).

[Chronos]

The "power level in line with the above effects" clause is problematic, since the level of spell you can mimic depends on the sort of the spell (school and power source). Surely, an 8th-level cleric evocation spell is of a power level in line with an 8th-level wizard conjuration spell, but a wizard who banned evocation will be able to mimic the latter, but not the former.

[AvatarVecna]

The "power level in line with the above effects" clause is problematic, since the level of spell you can mimic depends on the sort of the spell (school and power source). Surely, an 8th-level cleric evocation spell is of a power level in line with an 8th-level wizard conjuration spell, but a wizard who banned evocation will be able to mimic the latter, but not the former.

Slight nitpick: even if the wizard hadn't banned any schools at all, they still couldn't use Wish to duplicate an 8th lvl spell not on their spell list.

[SimonMoon6]

As for travelling to the future...well, even Teleport Through Time only allows you to travel to the past.

Traveling to the future is easy. Just go to a plane where time moves at a different rate, one where spending five minutes there means 500 years have passed in the Prime Material plane. Then go back to the Prime Material plane. Boom, you're in the future. (Assuming such a plane exists... I'm not up on the technicalities there. If that fails, just have people turn you to stone, wait 500 years, have them turn you to flesh again.)

It's travel to the past that's problematic and powerful because that gives the potential to change the past.

[nolongerchaos]

You could use Wish to acquire a single use magic item that will cast Teleport Through Time.

Single use item, 9th level spell, 1000xp - that's a 12,650gp value magic item, which seems pretty solidly within the limits of Wish. So at the very least it can facilitate some aspect of time travel without getting into the iffy DM-EXTRA-gets-to-do-what-they-want-with-you area of the greater effects than these powers of Wish.

[Emperor Tippy]

You can actually. Limited Wish contains a fairly broad clause:



A 5th-level power's effect "is in line with" a 5th-level spell - we know this from several sources, such as the Spell to Power Erudite, which treats the two types of level as being equivalent. So basically you use Wish to imitate Limited Wish (or better yet, just use the latter by itself) and you get access to psionic powers 5th and below. This includes handy effects like Psychic Reformation. Schism, and Forced Dream.

You can make a case for higher than 5th using Wish, which may be denied or unsafe, but definitely 5th and lower should work by RAW.

RAW that isn't actually true. The rules never define that a 5th level power's effect is "in line with" that of a 5th level spell. It's now an area of DM adjudication as it is no longer falling under the listed safe effects on Wish/Limited Wish.

[SirKazum]

Well, even if treating psionic powers as spells of the same level when it comes to determining what's possible and what's not isn't RAW (I'll let more knowledgeable rules-lawyers argue whether or not that's really the case), I think it should be a fairly obvious case of RAI that an N-level power's effects are "in line with" an N-level spell of a different class (other than wizard or sorcerer), and that this provision should be applied to Wish as well as Limited Wish. I mean, those spells are deliberately left vague and open-ended, with DM-adjudicated exceptions being explicitly written into the rules. And I think psionic powers are as good a baseline to adjudicate by as any. At the very least, the open-endedness of Wish means you can't argue by RAW that it can't do any specific thing - as pointed out, it even explicitly allows doing things that break the guidelines set in its own text (such as emulating 9th-level spells) as long as there are negative consequences. By pure RAW (no rule 0 required), you could destroy the entire Multiverse and/or create a new one tailored to your tastes with a single Wish if the DM okays that.

[Max Caysey]

That is not actually true. While a common misconception, all that magic/psionic transparency means is:



That is the sum totality of what Magic/Psionic transparency means under the rules. You can't RAW legally use Wish to emulate any psionic powers.

But I seem to remember you saying that limited wish can be used to emulate the psionic ability of Psychic Reformation... Now it would seem that if limited wish can do this, so too can wish. Or is it because wish lacks the line: "Produce any other effect whose power level is in line with the above effects [...]"?

[Psyren]

The rules never define that a 5th level power's effect is "in line with" that of a 5th level spell.

As I pointed out, they do indicate this in several places. It's not explicitly stated, but the whole point of that clause is to cover situations that aren't explicitly stated.

[atemu1234]

By RAW, yes, it can. But it isn't under the spell duplication bit, but the "more powerful effects" thing. Which brings up the possibility for you to wind up at some point in time other than when you want to or for it to fail altogether.

[lunasmeow]

Why so limited? Why not use two wishes together? The first wish asks for negative affects from your next wish to be limited as much as possible to those that would be acceptable by you (and your party) for the wish to work as intended. This doesn't negate negative effects, but should at least ensure that one of those effects is NOT sending you to the wrong time/place. Then the second wish is the wish to travel back to where/when you desire.

[Psyren]

The first wish asks for negative affects from your next wish to be limited as much as possible to those that would be acceptable by you (and your party) for the wish to work as intended.

This first wish is itself beyond a wish's safe power and so would likely result in partial fulfillment - such as by dropping the word "negative."

[lunasmeow]

This first wish is itself beyond a wish's safe power and so would likely result in partial fulfillment - such as by dropping the word "negative."

Well, considering how many other negative affects could come from time travel... asking for just one to be negated (ensuring you get to the correct time/place) would probably then just make the others worse. Lose all equipment and money, maybe lose some levels, maybe accidentally teleport some bad things with you, cause a temporal problem that requires and epic quest to fix or you destroy the entire realm...

Could you imagine teleporting evil creations of evil gods to the past in a time where no one knows how to fight them? Leaving the world open to be raped and pillaged by these things. Or maybe an evil cleric who knows the future now gives said knowledge to his God? Bad stuff.

It's just me but, personally I'd allow it. It'd just have huge potential to turn the world into a dystopian one. Vecna gains future knowledge and spells before they are developed, an huge undead army surges forth with these new spells against a populace who has no way to defend against them... Could start something epic.

[Talakeal]

Is travelling into the future really that special?

It happens automatically, all you have to do is not die. Find someplace to hide, put yourself in suspended animation for X years, and boom, done, you are in the future. Its getting back that's the real trick.

[WhamBamSam]

I'd have thought someone would have mentioned wishing for a scroll of Teleport Through Time by now, seeing as creating magic items is within the safe effects that Wish is capable of.

[Melcar]

I'd have thought someone would have mentioned wishing for a scroll of Teleport Through Time by now, seeing as creating magic items is within the safe effects that Wish is capable of.

Does the article not say, that the information and knowledge of the ancient netherese spell, is guarded by some secret society... I would not assume that any and all level 20 wizards would automatically know the spell. Its true that if just one wizard knows... then soon all of them knows, but I would assume this secret society to have some capability in keeping knowledge of the spell, and the spell itself secret?

[Milo v3]

Does the article not say, that the information and knowledge of the ancient netherese spell, is guarded by some secret society... I would not assume that any and all level 20 wizards would automatically know the spell. Its true that if just one wizard knows... then soon all of them knows, but I would assume this secret society to have some capability in keeping knowledge of the spell, and the spell itself secret?

Well, you could wish for time travel and get the scroll as the result. You don't have to ask for the scroll specifically.