Cleric/Rogue Advice

[Lvl45DM!]

Hey Playground I'm still relatively inexperienced at 3.5 but my gnome cleric just died. We need a divine caster but I really wanted to play something different and so I thought of a cleric/rogue, a holy assassin/spy that started off just screwing around with the idols of other gods but since the BBEG started moving around has become more focused and less goofy. Just looking for any advice the playground may have to give.
And yes i know i've given up 3 caster levels, I don't care about that, I wanted more sneak attack.

Level 3 Rogue/2 Cleric/3 Shadowbane Stalker (From complete adventurer)/3 Divine Trickster(From Rich. Woot)
Lesser Aasimar
Str 16
Dex 20
Con 13
Int 16
Wis 20
Cha 13
Feats: Two weapon fighting
Improved TWF
Sacred Strike (makes Sneak attack d8s vs evil)
Darkstalker (hide checks against tremor and blindsense)
Devoted inquisitor (If you sneak attack and smite on one hit, cause daze.

ACFs: Smiting rather than turning, penetrating sneak attack rather than trapfinding Antiquarian rather than trap sense.

Madness and Trickery domains.

Dual wielding a morning star and short sword.

Focusing on being super stealthy, causing status effects to make getting off sneak attacks easier.

Sooooo...any tips? Things to change?

[Karl Aegis]

You'll be just as stealthy (most likely more stealthy) and deal more damage as a Cloistered Cleric.

[Lvl45DM!]

You'll be just as stealthy (most likely more stealthy) and deal more damage as a Cloistered Cleric.

Mmmk I've looked at that. It does fit my backstory (1/2 breed street rat found and raised by monastery). More skills which is good. Knowledge domain which is...iffy for my character. Lore is good.
How am I dealing more damage? and with a low con i was kinda hoping for those d8s to help my low HP.

And can I still get the smite alternate class feature? +2 damage beats turning as a 2nd level cleric in an ECL 12 campaign.

[Ephemeral_Being]

Ooh! Cleric of Lolth! It's perfect. Lolth is awesome flavor-wise, and Drow get a ton of stealth-related abilities, anyway. . You want the LA+2 version of the Drow from the Faerun campaign setting. Make SURE to take the first level feat "Magic in the Blood" from the Player's Guide to Faerun, so you can use your SLA 3x per day. And then, you should take some of the following feats from Drow of the Underdark.


Fade into Darkness
Instinctive Darkness
At Home in the Deep
Blend into Shadows
Intensify Darkness
Master of Shadow


Master of Shadow gets you an additional use of your SLA every day. And then all those OTHER feats make the Drow's at-will ability to create Darkness more powerful. Four globes of Darkness per day is pretty good.

Anyway, like someone else was suggesting you should run a Cloistered Cleric. Which is SO much better than a normal cleric. And then you can add ranks of classes with Sneak Attack damage, if you really want that. Personally, I'd recommend going straight Cleric and just be a "rogue" in that you have stealthy abilities and the darkness.

Then again. Some settings are rather... unfriendly to Drow. So you'd need to check with your DM on if this is even feasible. And I guess depending on the party, alignment could be an issue, too...

Maybe this isn't such a good idea. But it's what came to mind.

[Xerlith]

And that's the first change: Swap that standard Cleric for the Cloistered variant if you want to go Cleric. I actually wouldn't - you need high Intelligence for your skills and with Cleric casting off Wisdom that means you'll be a bit more MAD than needed (especially with you needing Charisma for your Devoted Inquisitor feat).

Why not go Archivist instead?
There's a bigger problem, though: In both cases the build is illegal, since you need Turn Undead to qualify for Divine Trickster, while your build trades it for Smite.

Cloistered Cleric deals more damage than a normal cleric because you trade the Knowledge Domain for Knowledge Devotion which grants up to +5 attack/damage if you roll a high enough Knowledge check. Hitting more often = more damage. Also, more damage=more damage.

And Turning is Waay, Waay better than Smite.
Because it powers Divine feats. Such as, for example, Chaos Devotion. Or Divine Might. Or Animal Devotion.

[Lvl45DM!]

This drow idea is awesome but...not feasible in my game. Also I'm good. Definitely keeping it in mind for our evil game though :smallbiggrin:


We already have a bard in the group so i did want my focus to be sneak attacking and stealth not skill monkeying though. Need me some sneak attack. Is there any Good aligned assassin classes?


Oops I will need my turn undead back then. No big deal, the devoted inquisitor feat isnt that useful at high level play anyway. Too many things immune to being dazed.

[Xerlith]

Archivist can learn a Ranger spell, Hunter's Eye, that grants you +1d6 sneak attack/3 caster levels. If you want to be a Cleric, you may find a two-level dip in Prestige Ranger helpful, since it adds all ranger-only spells to your list.

For only one level in Swordsage you can get +2d6 sneak attack from Assassin's Stance. Combine it with Craven and you're looking at additional +2d6 + Character Level damage on sneak attacks. Also, general swordsage dip awesomeness.
You can easily trade two levels of Rogue for that and still come out on top when it comes to Sneak Attack dice.

ACtually, in any case, drop Sacred Strike for Craven. The feat gives you almost triple the benefit. (1d8 vs 1d6 is a net gain of 1 damage/sneak attack die - Craven grants you flat +1 damage/character level. That means a rogue 20 would look at +11 vs Evil against +20 vs everyone).

[Ephemeral_Being]

This drow idea is awesome but...not feasible in my game. Also I'm good. Definitely keeping it in mind for our evil game though :smallbiggrin:


We already have a bard in the group so i did want my focus to be sneak attacking and stealth not skill monkeying though. Need me some sneak attack. Is there any Good aligned assassin classes?

Okay, well. It sounds like you're looking for a Divine version of the Spellsword class from Complete Adventurer.

In that same book, there's a PrC called "Shadowbane Stalker." It... looks like it sucks. But it is TECHNICALLY a divine caster, requires a good alignment, and gets sneak attack damage. Which is exactly what you want.

[Lvl45DM!]

And that's the first change: Swap that standard Cleric for the Cloistered variant if you want to go Cleric. I actually wouldn't - you need high Intelligence for your skills and with Cleric casting off Wisdom that means you'll be a bit more MAD than needed (especially with you needing Charisma for your Devoted Inquisitor feat).

Why not go Archivist instead?
There's a bigger problem, though: In both cases the build is illegal, since you need Turn Undead to qualify for Divine Trickster, while your build trades it for Smite.

Cloistered Cleric deals more damage than a normal cleric because you trade the Knowledge Domain for Knowledge Devotion which grants up to +5 attack/damage if you roll a high enough Knowledge check. Hitting more often = more damage. Also, more damage=more damage.

And Turning is Waay, Waay better than Smite.
Because it powers Divine feats. Such as, for example, Chaos Devotion. Or Divine Might. Or Animal Devotion.

Lol. More damage = more damage. Ok so should i go Cloistered cleric with knowledge devotion or archivist? Both would fit my backstory super well, better than cleric really.

[Seharvepernfan]

With 20 wisdom, I'd say you're wasting levels on rogue. Is ToB on the table? Take swordsage and pick up assassins stance ASAP.
I would switch your strength and constitution scores; you can increase strength on your next stat increase.
I would also take weapon finesse instead of that last feat, which seems kinda ...eh.

[Lvl45DM!]

With 20 wisdom, I'd say you're wasting levels on rogue. Is ToB on the table? Take swordsage and pick up assassins stance ASAP.
I would switch your strength and constitution scores; you can increase strength on your next stat increase.
I would also take weapon finesse instead of that last feat, which seems kinda ...eh.

No ToB. Can't switch stats at this point. Weapon finesse...Im planning on using a morningstar so i wouldn't get the bonus to hit with that. But maybe i could switch to twin short swords.


Also I'm not picking Craven cos im not planning on playing him Craven. Gonna be a badass so it'd feel super cheesy.

[Chronos]

A super-simple build that accomplishes this is human with Able Learner, one level of ninja (any skillmonkey class will work, but ninja has Wis synergy), and then 19 of cloistered cleric. Nearly full casting, and high skills off of a large list.

[WeaselGuy]

Am I the only one that noticed you have "penetrating sneak attack replacing trapfinding"? Unless I'm very much mistaken, you seem to be wanting to use the Penetrating Strike ACF from Dungeonscape, which replaces your level 3 Trap Sense +1 with:

Benefit: Whenever you flank a creature that is immune to extra damage from sneak attacks, you still deal extra damage equal to half your normal sneak attack dice. This benefit does not apply against creatures that cannot be flanked, nor against foes that are otherwise denied their Dexterity bonus to AC or flat-footed but not flanked.

[Curmudgeon]

There's a poor Penetrating Strike ACF in Dungeonscape, which gives untyped damage instead of sneak attack. You want the superior Lightbringer Penetrating Strike in Expedition to Castle Ravenloft (page 208) which deals sneak attack damage instead. Both of these replace trap sense (not trapfinding).

The essential multiclassing feat for Rogue+Cleric is Sacred Outlaw (in Dragon # 357), to combine your class levels for both sneak attack and undead turning.

[DMVerdandi]

Lol. More damage = more damage. Ok so should i go Cloistered cleric with knowledge devotion or archivist? Both would fit my backstory super well, better than cleric really.

The good thing about cleric is that it doesn't have to actually find it's base spells.
The bad thing is that it cannot natively pick from the other great divine lists.
But in a group where you don't know what kind of leeway your DM is going to give you, it's better to have every spell you can cast on your list instead of theoretically having access to a lot of lists if you can find the people to give it to you.


I would honestly suggest that you switch one of those domains to shadow, and then also take the spontaneous domain casting ACF for shadow. Shadow spells are FREAKING AWESOME and give tons of variety. Also, they open you up to being able to take the shadowcraft mage.

So yeah, I would go with the cloistered cleric for now. Archivist is totally worth it if you are in a group with a super lenient dm, and you have a lot opportunities to scribe scrolls from people.


Really, the best means of being able to cast a massive hoard of divine spells is the chameleon class.
They get all divine spells up to level six, which is immense.
Anywho.


>Cloistered cleric of Trickery and Darkness(spontaneous domain)

[Lvl45DM!]

There's a poor Penetrating Strike ACF in Dungeonscape, which gives untyped damage instead of sneak attack. You want the superior Lightbringer Penetrating Strike in Expedition to Castle Ravenloft (page 208) which deals sneak attack damage instead. Both of these replace trap sense (not trapfinding).

The essential multiclassing feat for Rogue+Cleric is Sacred Outlaw (in Dragon # 357), to combine your class levels for both sneak attack and undead turning.

Thats the feat i want!!! I'd still have impaired casting but full Sneak attack and turn undead? Yes please.