help with balancing a planar shepherd

[Lloyd-Starbuck]

So i look at the class and other forums that talk about it, and what i see is a very powerful prestige class. my question is what can i do that would convince my dm to let me play this class. could i just not chose the Dal Quor and Fernia planes which many people say breaks the game. I really like to play this class but it's so broken that i know that my dm will be very hesitant about me playing it.

[Crazysaneman]

Just ask your Dm to look over the PRC with you and open a dialogue about balancing the class to your specific game. Be honest and show him specific builds that break it and enter into a gentlemen's agreement with him to play it conservatively so everyone has fun.

[phlidwsn]

Things you can do to self-nerf
Decide that time traits do not carry over to the planar bubble
Work with your DM for a list of outsiders native to the plane you choose
Avoid outsiders with abusive abilities even if they're native.

[Necroticplague]

All the ridiculous power comes from choice of planes, and only a few choice ones are extremely powerful (Far Realms, Reign of Dreams). Simply pick a plane that's relatively normal, and its merely a decent PRC.

[eggynack]

Well, if you basically choose a plane that does nearly nothing, then you're running something around the power of a normal druid. That's still broken, because druid, but it's not a whole magnitude of power above a druid, like a planar shepherd can be. You don't necessarily have to go that far either, and if you pick something relatively normal then you should end up with a druid+ rather than something way crazier. Which, again, is really ridiculously powerful, but you're not necessarily taking a massive pile of turns or using crazy effects all over the place. Long story short, if you're playing in a low to mid power campaign which tops out with tome of battle and bards, then there's really nothing you can do outside of just making bad choices even for a druid, but if you have some full casters running around, then you can design a character that doesn't significantly overpower them.

[LooseCannoneer]

Balancing
Planar Shepard


Pick one.

[eggynack]

Balancing
Planar Shepard


Pick one.
As I often note, balance is relative. A planar shepherd using their planar shepherd in reasonable and not broken ways should be about balanced in a normal tier one party, a planar shepherd played down such that they're actually worse than a normally played druid (basically the first category, with poor spell selection and similar things) should be reasonable with tier two's, and even a very well played planar shepherd, making the best possible use of the class, should be approximately balanced with tier one's using very powerful prestige classes, like incantatrix. Other casters do have their own ways of screwing the action economy, after all.

[Lloyd-Starbuck]

so what i'm hearing is that planar shepherds are balance with other tier one prestige classes, but is only broken if the Dal Quor and Fernia planes are used. on a side note is there book or a website that has detail descriptions of planes.
i know that the planar shepherd handbook on wizard of the coast has some information on planes but are there any other planes that i could use.

[fishyfishyfishy]

No it can be ridiculously powerful no matter what plane you choose. Those two just happen to have easier to abuse options than the rest. The ability to change into outsiders and gain their supernatural and spell like abilities is incredibly good and can break campaigns in the hands of an intelligent player. Work with your DM to balance it avoiding to your game table.

[phlidwsn]

i know that the planar shepherd handbook on wizard of the coast has some information on planes but are there any other planes that i could use.

Its an Eberron prc, so it starts with just the Eberron planes. If you're in another campaign setting, you could always adapt it for whatever multiverse your campaign is using, ie Great Wheel (Planar Shepherd of Sigil/Outlands anyone?)

[eggynack]

so what i'm hearing is that planar shepherds are balance with other tier one prestige classes, but is only broken if the Dal Quor and Fernia planes are used.
A completely normal druid, without any prestige classes at all, can be broken, especially in the right (meaning wrong in this context) campaigns. Thus, the essentially strictly superior planar shepherd necessarily has a chance to be broken regardless of plane choice. Level of balance depends heavily on both the specific party makeup (and inversely, the difficulty the campaign), and how good your in-game decision making is.