Undead and Mind Affecting Enchantments

[yaluckyboy09]

I'm playing a Beguiler and I'm utterly useless against thing immune to Mind Affecting Enchantments like Undead and Constructs. Is there a Feat to let me affect them as is they were living?

[Psyren]

1) You actually have plenty of options - there are many non-mind-affecting illusions out there, like figments, that can actually be more useful against mindless creatures than they are against ones that can think. Beguilers can also gain access to various Shadow spells, and optimize these to have greater degrees of reality to use against mindless enemies.

2) One uniqe and flavorful solution for an enchantment using class is to dominate something big and dumb to fight for you. Giants are very strong and tend to have lower will saves, letting them go toe-to-toe with constructs and undead on your behalf with ease.

3) Pathfinder has Threnodic Spell (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/metamagic-feats/threnodic-spell-metamagic), though that will only help vs. undead. You can buy it as a metamagic rod if your DM is willing to mix the two systems.

[With a box]

do you find this one (http://www.realmshelps.net/cgi-bin/featbox.pl?feat=Song_of_the_Dead)?
Song of the Dead
Type: Metamagic
Sources: Dragon #312
Dungeon Compendium Vol. 1

You can add such a powerful dose of necromantic energy to your mind-affecting spells that they function against undead creatures but are useless against all others.
Benefit: A mind-affecting spell modified by this feat works normally against intelligent undead creatures. Mindless undead (those without Intelligence scores) are still immune to its effect, and the altered spell has no effect against living creatures or constructs. A song of the dead spell takes up a spell slot one level higher than the spell's actual level. Note that use of this feat does not make mind-affecting spells affect undead if the spell's description specifies that the target must be living or a particular creature type (other than undead).
Any spells prepared with Song of the Dead become necromancy spells

edit: I think I was ninjaed, but this Matamagic is a level cheaper but dose not work on mindless undead.

[Thurbane]

Beguiler myth #1: useless against mindless creatures. :smallconfused:


Most illusions work on mindless beings, unless specifically immune.
Glitterdust, Slow, Solid Fog are not mind affecting.
Party buffs: Haste, Blur etc.
Eternal Wands, Raiment of the Four, Robes of Mysterious Conjuration...
UMD...is your friend.

[yaluckyboy09]

do you find this one (http://www.realmshelps.net/cgi-bin/featbox.pl?feat=Song_of_the_Dead)?
Song of the Dead
Type: Metamagic
Sources: Dragon #312
Dungeon Compendium Vol. 1

You can add such a powerful dose of necromantic energy to your mind-affecting spells that they function against undead creatures but are useless against all others.
Benefit: A mind-affecting spell modified by this feat works normally against intelligent undead creatures. Mindless undead (those without Intelligence scores) are still immune to its effect, and the altered spell has no effect against living creatures or constructs. A song of the dead spell takes up a spell slot one level higher than the spell's actual level. Note that use of this feat does not make mind-affecting spells affect undead if the spell's description specifies that the target must be living or a particular creature type (other than undead).
Any spells prepared with Song of the Dead become necromancy spells

edit: I think I was ninjaed, but this Matamagic is a level cheaper but dose not work on mindless undead.

Thank you this is perfect


Beguiler myth #1: useless against mindless creatures. :smallconfused:


Most illusions work on mindless beings, unless specifically immune.
Glitterdust, Slow, Solid Fog are not mind affecting.
Party buffs: Haste, Blur etc.
Eternal Wands, Raiment of the Four, Robes of Mysterious Conjuration...
UMD...is your friend.


Well my DM gave the Undead Lifesense so they're not as easily fooled and I'm currently only level 4 so I don't have most of those options right now

[Urpriest]

Thank you this is perfect



Well my DM gave the Undead Lifesense so they're not as easily fooled and I'm currently only level 4 so I don't have most of those options right now

You've got access to Glitterdust anyway, even with Lifesense you're still making those undead who fail their saves suffer a 50% miss chance. Of course, Undead have good Will saves, so that only helps so much.

[Thurbane]

Well my DM gave the Undead Lifesense so they're not as easily fooled and I'm currently only level 4 so I don't have most of those options right now

Ah, fair enough - it is tougher at lower levels.

As Urpriest says, spamming Glitterdust is probably the best option. And Blur on yourself and your allies.

And Song of the Dead is a solid feat option for Beguilers in an Undead-heavy campaign.