First 5th Edition Character, hoping for feedback

[ZethVorador]

Hey everyone, so I am getting back into DnD (Group took a break in-between 3.5 and 5) and we are starting up a 5th Edition campaign. No info on what it is yet but since this will be my first character in 5th I was hoping to get some sage wisdom from the boards. Thanks in advance to anyone that replies.

The overall theme here is a ranged assassin (Sniperish/Gunslinger) and is using dual hand crossbows as main weapons with a rapier for close combat, a crossbow (Heavy?) or bow (Longbow?) for long range and some daggers for backup.
I have two potential dip-in options and I am not sure which would be the best (See Below). I am also looking to get some input on stat allocation and feat choices if possible (Also if a feat is better than an ASI in this case?).

Race: Drow
Class: Rogue (Expertise (Stealth, Perception))
Background: Charlatan
Skill Prof- Acrobatics, Deception, Insight, Persuasion, Perception, Sleight of Hand, Stealth.
Stats: (Rolls 14, 10, 16, 12, 16, 10)
Str-10 (+0)
Dex-18 (+4)
Con-12 (+1)
Int-10 (+0)
Wis-16 (+3)
Cha-15 (+2)
Plan so far:
Rogue level 1-4: Archetype Assassin (Level 3), Crossbow Expert (Level 4).
Dip-In Level 1-3 (ECL 5-7): (See Below)
Rogue Level 5-17 (ECL 8-20): ASI’s or feats (Sharpshooter, Alert, Skulker)
Dip-in choices:
1.
Ranger 1 (ECL 5)
(Gain: Medium Armor, Shields, Martial Weapons, Survival (?), Favored Enemy, Natural Explorer)
Ranger 2 (ECL 6)
(Gain: Fighting Style (Archery), Spell Casting (Wisdom score should make this doable?)
Ranger 3 (ECL 7)
(Gain: Archetype Hunter (Colossus Slaying or Horde Breaker?)
Spells (3 out of these 4): Hunters Mark, Fog Cloud, Hail of Thorns, Ensnaring Strike

2.
Fighter 1 (ECL 5)
(Gain: Medium Armor, Shields, Martial Weapons, Fighting Style (Archery), Second Wind)
Fighter 2 (ECL 6)
(Gain: Action Surge)
Fighter 3 (ECL 7)
(Gain: Archetype: Champion or Battle Master)
Champion: Straight forward crit chance increase
Battle Master: 3 Maneuvers (Precision Strike, Trip attack, Riposte), Student of War

So far I am leaning towards ranger as my wisdom is pretty high which should allow for a decent DC on spells that need it (plus a lot of skills benefit from high wisdom) and the Hunter Archetype seems to give some solid additions. The fighter gives me a healing option, an action option and either a crit increase or maneuvers. Both give fighting style archery and armor/shield proficiency so those cancel each other out plus student of war and survival are semi-negligible additions. But I don’t have enough experience in 5th to know which of these would work better with what I want this character to be. Thanks in advance to anyone that replies.

[Madfellow]

First off, welcome back to the game! :smallsmile:

One issue with the dual crossbow thing is that each crossbow still needs a free hand to reload it, so I'm not sure how much use you'll get out of two of them. It might be better to just stick with a single bow or crossbow.

Great selection of skills there, and great stats to back them up. You're character's going to be unstoppable. :smallamused:

As for the multiclass, the good news is that you have plenty of time to decide. Myself, I would suggest taking the Battlemaster Fighter option; Fighter because the Action Surge ability is just that good, and Battlemaster because maneuvers give you a lot more options in combat. And I might suggest taking 4 levels of it instead of 3, so you're not delaying your access to another ASI/Feat (perhaps nab the one that gives you extra superiority die and maneuvers).

Speaking of, since your stats are so good already, I think you can get a lot of mileage out of the feats you've chosen. Like I said, unstoppable.

I hope all of this helps.

[Balor777]

I would still put that 16 to CON and coose half elf to get+2 to cha for 10+2 12 charisma. and 14 to wisdom.
I dont know.I feel 12 CON is too low for everyone.This edition can be very harsh.Youll start with 8-9 hp?Ouch.
You dont want your DM to metagame not attacking you dont you ? :)
An 1/2 challenge Orc has +5 to hit doing 1d12+3 damage.
If you really want to start with 12 CON id suggest your first-second level to be ranger over rogue.

[Eslin]

Hey everyone, so I am getting back into DnD (Group took a break in-between 3.5 and 5) and we are starting up a 5th Edition campaign. No info on what it is yet but since this will be my first character in 5th I was hoping to get some sage wisdom from the boards. Thanks in advance to anyone that replies.

The overall theme here is a ranged assassin (Sniperish/Gunslinger) and is using dual hand crossbows as main weapons with a rapier for close combat, a crossbow (Heavy?) or bow (Longbow?) for long range and some daggers for backup.
I have two potential dip-in options and I am not sure which would be the best (See Below). I am also looking to get some input on stat allocation and feat choices if possible (Also if a feat is better than an ASI in this case?).

Race: Drow
Class: Rogue (Expertise (Stealth, Perception))
Background: Charlatan
Skill Prof- Acrobatics, Deception, Insight, Persuasion, Perception, Sleight of Hand, Stealth.
Stats: (Rolls 14, 10, 16, 12, 16, 10)
Str-10 (+0)
Dex-18 (+4)
Con-12 (+1)
Int-10 (+0)
Wis-16 (+3)
Cha-15 (+2)
Plan so far:
Rogue level 1-4: Archetype Assassin (Level 3), Crossbow Expert (Level 4).
Dip-In Level 1-3 (ECL 5-7): (See Below)
Rogue Level 5-17 (ECL 8-20): ASI’s or feats (Sharpshooter, Alert, Skulker)
Dip-in choices:
1.
Ranger 1 (ECL 5)
(Gain: Medium Armor, Shields, Martial Weapons, Survival (?), Favored Enemy, Natural Explorer)
Ranger 2 (ECL 6)
(Gain: Fighting Style (Archery), Spell Casting (Wisdom score should make this doable?)
Ranger 3 (ECL 7)
(Gain: Archetype Hunter (Colossus Slaying or Horde Breaker?)
Spells (3 out of these 4): Hunters Mark, Fog Cloud, Hail of Thorns, Ensnaring Strike

2.
Fighter 1 (ECL 5)
(Gain: Medium Armor, Shields, Martial Weapons, Fighting Style (Archery), Second Wind)
Fighter 2 (ECL 6)
(Gain: Action Surge)
Fighter 3 (ECL 7)
(Gain: Archetype: Champion or Battle Master)
Champion: Straight forward crit chance increase
Battle Master: 3 Maneuvers (Precision Strike, Trip attack, Riposte), Student of War

So far I am leaning towards ranger as my wisdom is pretty high which should allow for a decent DC on spells that need it (plus a lot of skills benefit from high wisdom) and the Hunter Archetype seems to give some solid additions. The fighter gives me a healing option, an action option and either a crit increase or maneuvers. Both give fighting style archery and armor/shield proficiency so those cancel each other out plus student of war and survival are semi-negligible additions. But I don’t have enough experience in 5th to know which of these would work better with what I want this character to be. Thanks in advance to anyone that replies.

There is no point to dual wielding hand crossbows. The bonus action attack doesn't say it has to be a different hand crossbow, you can get the bonus attack while wielding only one hand crossbow (and ideally a shield in your other hand). Fighter wise you want to go battlemaster and get maneuvers - battlemaster is really frontloaded, it starts great and doesn't scale properly so taking a few levels in it and getting out is ideal.

I would also advise switching that 16 to CON and considering variant human to get crossbow expert at level 1.

[broodax]

I am running just about this same character, and trying to decide about the same dip choices. I agree I'd put a higher score in CON, and unless the drow option is really integral to your concept, Variant Human is really the strongest possible choice. I am also trending toward picking Battlemaster, as Action Surge is really tough to beat, but I certainly wish Ranger was the better option as it seems to fit better thematically.

Crossbow expert gets people riled up around here, so just make sure whatever you're planning in your game will work. I have personally worked with my DM to have him let me treat 2 hand-crossbows as a single item, in order to avoid needing to have multiple magic weapons (not to mention mitigating the expense of just buying a regular hand crossbow at level 1-2). I do this because 1) the imagery of dual wielding crossbows is badass 2) it seems unlikely to me that wielding a single hand-crossbow and getting extra attacks while using a shield in your off-hand was what the writers had in mind, and I feel strong enough as it is 3) given that the RAW does actually support using just a single hand crossbow, there's no mechanical advantage gained by "pretending" that it's 2 just to look cooler.

You should search for the rogue-guide around here that has a priority list of what you want to do as a rogue each round. It's really well thought out, and works in practice (I'm level 3 now, having started HotDQ at level 1). You have a ton of options with Cunning Action and Crossbow Expert and you can contribute nicely in just about any fight, outrun anyone, scout, etc. It's a really fun character.

[DireSickFish]

Race: Drow

Stats: (Rolls 14, 10, 16, 12, 16, 10)
Str-10 (+0)
Dex-18 (+4)
Con-12 (+1)
Int-10 (+0)
Wis-16 (+3)
Cha-15 (+2)


I'd swap Con and Cha here. Those extra hp will help out a lot more than the bonus to secondary skills.

I have not used the hand crossbow but Person_Mans rogue guide has a lot of good advice for Rogue building. As well as an in depth analysis about how crossbow expert works and why you should take it.

[Person_Man]

My rogue guide (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?395706-Person_Man%92s-5E-Rogue-Guide) may be helpful to you.

Thoughts on your specific build:

Drow is generally considered one of the weaker races. If your DM pays attention to the illumination rules (thus requiring that you have Darkvision, since you'll be sneaking about constantly) I suggest Wood Elf. If not, I suggest variant Human or Halfling.
I would swap your Con and Wis ability scores, since Con is much more valuable.
If you're going to dip into Ranger or Fighter, I strongly suggest taking at least 5 levels for Extra Attack.
Ranger will provide you with more consistent damage. Fighter will provide you with better nova damage.

[ZethVorador]

Hey everyone! Thanks so much for all the input and help. It really helped solidify what I wanted to get out of this character.


The need for a loading hand does put a bit of a wrench in the gears towards using two hand crossbows so unless I pick up tinkerer(And convince the DM) to let me get some sort of thigh rig that auto loads for me I will likely look into putting the hand to better use.

I will definitely switch out a stat to increase the Con on the character.

I did end up deciding on Ranger for the dip in. I like the thought of spells casting in the build and it provides benifits I can count on every combat.

The drawing line for me on this one was that the fighters Action Surge and Second Wind were only usable once per short/long rest, they both provide intense benefits buts if a rest is a long way off so is the next use of those abilities. In the fighter I would have chosen the Battle Master but it still limits me to the amount of Superiority Dice I have. The Rangers Horde Breaker or Colossus Slayer give me their benefits every turn, So maybe we will get lots of short rests in-between but if I am going into a 2nd or 3rd combat with no rest in-between and none in sight I personally would prefer to go in knowing my class features are going in with me.



Again thank you to everyone who replied it helped out a lot and I am now confident that I can get the most out of my character and still have a great time.

[Eslin]

Hey everyone! Thanks so much for all the input and help. It really helped solidify what I wanted to get out of this character.


The need for a loading hand does put a bit of a wrench in the gears towards using two hand crossbows so unless I pick up tinkerer(And convince the DM) to let me get some sort of thigh rig that auto loads for me I will likely look into putting the hand to better use.

I will definitely switch out a stat to increase the Con on the character.

I did end up deciding on Ranger for the dip in. I like the thought of spells casting in the build and it provides benifits I can count on every combat.

The drawing line for me on this one was that the fighters Action Surge and Second Wind were only usable once per short/long rest, they both provide intense benefits buts if a rest is a long way off so is the next use of those abilities. In the fighter I would have chosen the Battle Master but it still limits me to the amount of Superiority Dice I have. The Rangers Horde Breaker or Colossus Slayer give me their benefits every turn, So maybe we will get lots of short rests in-between but if I am going into a 2nd or 3rd combat with no rest in-between and none in sight I personally would prefer to go in knowing my class features are going in with me.



Again thank you to everyone who replied it helped out a lot and I am now confident that I can get the most out of my character and still have a great time.

1. You don't need a free hand to reload. There is, however, no reason not to just use one hand crossbow and make your regular and bonus attacks with it. There is no reason to use two.
2. Yep, con is useful.
3. Really consider going battlemaster instead. 4 dice and the ability to do things like fear, push 15 feet and trip enemies at range is amazing.
4. The thing is the fighter abilities are better. The ranger stuff is unlimited, sure, but the ability the fighter abilities are a significant amount more useful and the ability to apply that kind of stuff when you need it tends to be a lot more useful than kind of crappy, always on abilities - it's the same difference between champion and every other class.