The 'Dark Knight' in Pathfinder (A Different Take)

[JonathonWilder]

Please check out Image below before commenting, thank you:
http://weknowmemes.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/alternative-batman-fanart-fantasy-knight-batman.jpg
I am considering an Oathbound Paladin of Vengeance, though if someone has a better suggestion I am open for it. Also a dire bat mount that can carry a knight in heavy armour needs to be figured out, with this a way to have a robin as familiar or cohort. Perhaps though it could be the dark knight's squire turned into a robin though baleful polymorph or some other magic.

What should I consider for feats, magic equipment, armour, and weapon?

Current Class Decision: Hussar (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1hHsiSKoL2nR4oWgzPKQwXfqYENuNkDmBiX323SlTPfc) Warder (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/path-of-war/classes/warder)
Current Discipline Decision: Primal Fury (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/path-of-war/disciplines-and-maneuvers/primal-fury-maneuvers)
Link provided ivolving the Hussar templete here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?373269-Dreamscarred-Press-Announces-Path-of-War-Expanded)

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/animals/bat/bat-dire
http://www.realmshelps.net/monsters/templates/warbeast.shtml
Warbeast Dire Bat CR 3
N Large animal
Init +2; Senses blindsense 40 ft
AC 14, touch 11, flat-footed 12 (+2 Dex, +3 natural, –1 size)
HP: 5d8+4
Saves: Fort +5, Ref +6, Will +3
Speed: 20 ft., fly 50 ft. (good)
Melee: bite +5 (1d8+4)
Space: 10 ft.; Reach 5 ft.
Abilities: Str 20, Dex 15, Con 16, Int 2, Wis 16, Cha 6
Base Atk +3; CMB +7; CMD 19
Feats: Alertness, Stealthy
Skills: Fly +9, Perception +13, Stealth +4; Racial Modifiers +4 Perception when using blindsense
-------------------------------------------------------------
Combative Mount (Ex): A rider on a trained warbeast mount gets a +2 circumstance bonus on all Ride checks. A trained warbeast is proficient with light, medium, and heavy armor.

[stack]

Well, the bat mount could either just be approved by the dm or you could figure something out from the chart of monstrous cohorts. The robin can be picked up with eldritch heritage or by taking sacred servant and grabbing a domain that grants a bird familiar or companion.

[Snowbluff]

So, in this analogy, is Batgirl the mount?

You want a summoner. Make Batmount/Bateidolon. Optimize your summoner for melee combat.

[JonathonWilder]

Well I am the DM, I want to add this dark knight into my campaign as an NPC in reference to Batman. I though the image was cool and am not considering how to build him while staying as close as possible to Pathfinder rules. If I need to I am even willing to consider 3rd party resources.

From what I have seen, without possibly refluffing some other monstrous mount or use of feats of some sort, you can have a dire bat war mount can carry a medium sized creature but not while they are in heavy armour. I couldn't find any domains that offer a familiar when taking a quick look, and animal companions offer for only large birds like eagles, hanks, owls.

Do you have a link to monstrous cohorts?


So, in this analogy, is Batgirl the mount?
You want a summoner. Make Batmount/Bateidolon. Optimize your summoner for melee combat.
No she isn't, the bat mount is supposed to replace I bat jet I believe.

Hmm, possibly. Though it would require a lot of feats to get a combat heavy Summoner unless I dip into the fighter (For heavy armour, martial weapons), even then it would require a number of other feats. Honestly I don't think it would be worth it.

[Akal Saris]

What if his armor were mithril? Would it then be considered medium armor for the purposes of riding the dire batmobile?

For a familiar, he could take eldritch heritage: arcane bloodline, and refluff a hawk or owl as a robin. Alternatively, one could simply purchase a robin for a few silver and train one using standard Handle Animal checks.

[JonathonWilder]

What if his armor were mithril? Would it then be considered medium armor for the purposes of riding the dire batmobile?

For a familiar, he could take eldritch heritage: arcane bloodline, and refluff a hawk or owl as a robin. Alternatively, one could simply purchase a robin for a few silver and train one using standard Handle Animal checks.
Hmm... actually, a suit of black mithril full plate mail would work in offering armour that counts as medium when it comes to having a dire bat war mount. Thank you.

Eldritch Heritage + Arcane Bloodline would actually work, though I would pick a raven familiar and refluff it as a robin.

What are the feats required to have a flying mount work effectively?

Warbeast Dire Bat
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/animals/bat/bat-dire
http://www.realmshelps.net/monsters/templates/warbeast.shtml
Warbeast Dire Bat CR 3
N Large animal
Init +2; Senses blindsense 40 ft
AC 14, touch 11, flat-footed 12 (+2 Dex, +3 natural, –1 size)
HP: 5d8+4
Saves: Fort +5, Ref +6, Will +3
Speed: 20 ft., fly 50 ft. (good)
Melee: bite +5 (1d8+4)
Space: 10 ft.; Reach 5 ft.
Abilities: Str 20, Dex 15, Con 16, Int 2, Wis 16, Cha 6
Base Atk +3; CMB +7; CMD 19
Feats: Alertness, Stealthy
Skills: Fly +9, Perception +13, Stealth +4; Racial Modifiers +4 Perception when using blindsense
-------------------------------------------------------------
Combative Mount (Ex): A rider on a trained warbeast mount gets a +2 circumstance bonus on all Ride checks. A trained warbeast is proficient with light, medium, and heavy armor.

[stack]

Thought one of the animal/terrain domains Druids can access get a bird familiar...eagle (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/druid/archetypes/paizo---druid-archetypes/animal-and-terrain-domains/eagle-domain) domain gets a hawk familiar.

[Sayt]

If path of war is available, a Hussar Warder with Monstrous Mount and fluff up a Dire bat could work pretty well.

[Toilet Cobra]

The anti-paladin can do the exact mount thing you're talking about.

The second type of bond allows an antipaladin to gain the service of a fiendish servant. This functions as summon monster III, except the duration is permanent and the antipaladin can only gain the service of a single creature and that creature must either have the chaotic and evil subtypes or it must be a fiendish animal. Once selected, the choice is set, but it may be changed whenever the antipaladin gains a level. Upon reaching 7th level, and every two levels thereafter, the level of the summon monster spell increases by one, to a maximum of summon monster IX at 17th level. Once per day, as a full-round action, an antipaladin may magically call his servant to his side. This ability is the equivalent of a spell of a level equal to one-third the antipaladin’s level. The servant immediately appears adjacent to the antipaladin. An antipaladin can use this ability once per day at 5th level, and one additional time per day for every four levels thereafter, for a total of four times per day at 17th level.

Since you're the dm, I would just swap in the Fiendish Boon and trade it for the Divine Bond ability (although, is Divine Boon really as strong as Fiendish Boon? No idea). Fiendish Boon even has a Dire Bat on the list of mounts you can take right away, so it's a win win.

If course, if you wanna really go balls out, just make your dark knight an actual anti-paladin.

[JonathonWilder]

Thought one of the animal/terrain domains Druids can access get a bird familiar...eagle (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/druid/archetypes/paizo---druid-archetypes/animal-and-terrain-domains/eagle-domain) domain gets a hawk familiar.
Hmm... honestly that seems a lot of work just to give the dark knight an actual robin sidekick. That and gaining a hank familiar would still require a bit of refluffing though it could allow for a more powerful offensively companion.


If path of war is available, a Hussar Warder with Monstrous Mount and fluff up a Dire bat could work pretty well.
Hmm, when doing a search I found this page: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/path-of-war
The problem is I can't fine anything involving 'Hussar'... perhaps it is a disapline under a different name? If this is something else can you provide a link?

I will say the Path of War seems like a very interesting resource, and one that I may allow for the campaign I am currently running for my players to use. The Sworn Protector (Warder) following the Defender of the Realms tradition could be useful for the royal guards of the nation's rulers, though I admit to toying with the idea of creating an archetype that offers a Paladin version of the Warder.

Edit: Perhaps as a complement of the Veiled Moon discipline there could be a Revealing Sun discipline that offers maneuvers that give paladin style abilities.


The anti-paladin can do the exact mount thing you're talking about. Fiendish Boon

Since you're the dm, I would just swap in the Fiendish Boon and trade it for the Divine Bond ability (although, is Divine Boon really as strong as Fiendish Boon? No idea). Fiendish Boon even has a Dire Bat on the list of mounts you can take right away, so it's a win win.
If course, if you wanna really go balls out, just make your dark knight an actual anti-paladin.
I wouldn't go that fair, since anti-paladins must be Chaotic Evil and this dark knight must be a good guy even if he is an anti-hero. I do like the idea of a fiendish boon swap but perhaps not for a paladin character. Like I said before, I am willing to go a different direction then paladin as the important detail is that he a an armoured 'dark knight' protecting the helpless/defenseless and serving as a defender of justice/law. I admit, Lawful Good doesn't exactly fit the character type that Batman represents.

[stack]

Hussar is a class template in playtest. It can be applied to warders and warlords. Links are here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?373269-Dreamscarred-Press-Announces-Path-of-War-Expanded).

As a note, sacred servant doesn't just get you a domain, it also gets you free planar allies. Could come in handy. Celestial dire bat?

[JonathonWilder]

Hussar is a class template in playtest. It can be applied to warders and warlords. Links are here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?373269-Dreamscarred-Press-Announces-Path-of-War-Expanded).

As a note, celestial servant doesn't just get you a domain, it also gets you free planar allies. Could come in handy. Celestial dire bat?

Actually... that fits quite well. What suggestions would you offer as swaps if I wanted to stick with an Oathsworn Paladin? I will admit... I very much like the Warder and with the Hussar templete it complements the above image quite well. Primal Fury also fits the Batman theme quite well, so tying that all together a Hussar Warder of the Primal Fury discipline would I feel very much fits the image I offered in my first post. As the DM, having it that the mount is a Dire Bat in an easy enough decision though I think I would go with using the Warbeast templete to allow the Dire Bat higher stats and full proficients with armours.

[stack]

There is a paladin archetype in the archetype's document, same thread. I built a hussar with a flying mount, check the end of that thread.

Oath of vengeance and sacred servant only overlap in that they each grant bonus spells, so they fit nicely together, especially the extra lay hands to squeeze out another smite.

[JonathonWilder]

There is a paladin archetype in the archetype's document, same thread. I built a hussar with a flying mount, check the end of that thread.

Oath of vengeance and sacred servant only overlap in that they each grant bonus spells, so they fit nicely together, especially the extra lay hands to squeeze out another smite.

Hmm... thank you, I will look through the document for the Archetypes and update my original post when done. You have been very helpful. especially since the Paladin Archetype allows for a spell-less Paladin.

Edit: Aw, the Knight Dicipline doesn't allow for the Primal Fury discipline... though such does technically make sense.

[stack]

Swapping a discipline can be done with a trait as yet unreleased.

You are welcome.

[Elricaltovilla]

Hmm... thank you, I will look through the document for the Archetypes and update my original post when done. You have been very helpful. especially since the Paladin Archetype allows for a spell-less Paladin.

Edit: Aw, the Knight Dicipline doesn't allow for the Primal Fury discipline... though such does technically make sense.

You can join the Bloody Fangs Martial Tradition (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/path-of-war/martial-traditions/bloody-fangs) to get access to Primal Fury. FYI the Paladin Archetype loses Divine Bond, so it does not have a mount.

[JonathonWilder]

Swapping a discipline can be done with a trait as yet unreleased.
You are welcome.
Hmm... the Vigilante archetype for the Stalker is interesting, especially if combined with the Primal Fury dicipline. If I wanted to go closer to what Batman is and not go with the image I provided above I would actually switch to that. Yet I will put such aside since that wouldn't really work for a heavily armoured knight riding a dire bat, and that is the point of this thread.

[Vhaidara]

I will say the Path of War seems like a very interesting resource, and one that I may allow for the campaign I am currently running for my players to use. The Sworn Protector (Warder) following the Defender of the Realms tradition could be useful for the royal guards of the nation's rulers, though I admit to toying with the idea of creating an archetype that offers a Paladin version of the Warder.

Edit: Perhaps as a complement of the Veiled Moon discipline there could be a Revealing Sun discipline that offers maneuvers that give paladin style abilities.

If you want to make a Paladin out of the Warder, you just need to join the Empyreal Guardians (Good aligned martial tradition, allows you to trade a class discipline for Silver Crane). Then, depending on the type of Paladin you want, you pick a secondary discipline to combine that with.
Golden Lion: This is the Paladin as a leader. Silver Crane provides spot healing for wounded allies by restoring their will to fight, while Golden Lion allows you to grant your allies, movement, attacks, actions, and all kinds of bonuses. You become a force multiplier.
Iron Tortoise: You are the defender of the righteous. You shield is there to protect your allies and smite your foes. Again, Silver Crane brings in a mix of healing and smiting the wicked, along with some defensive abilities. Iron Tortoise, meanwhile, allows you to block hits for your allies, counterattack, and dish out damage with your shield.
Primal Fury: You are the wrath of your god. Primal Fury is about grabbing a big weapon and dispensing great justice with it. Now your Silver Crane focuses more on the smiting aspect, and you become one mean damage dealer.
Broken Blade: This is a weird combo, but you will most likely be using a simple weapon like a quarterstaff. Think of this as an armored Monk. Probably the least appealing of the combos, imo.

[JonathonWilder]

You can join the Bloody Fangs Martial Tradition (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/path-of-war/martial-traditions/bloody-fangs) to get access to Primal Fury. FYI the Paladin Archetype loses Divine Bond, so it does not have a mount.

Sighs... what would you and Stack suggest for creating the Dark Knight going after the image I provided? I am going both for appearance and for theme. It seems the two of you have more experience then I do, so I am willing to differ two the two of you.

[stack]

Raven lord harbinger using broken blade and steel serpent. refluff the raven as a bat, it gets large enough to ride eventually. Use other disciplines is you want weapons instead of unarmed. Intelligence to everything, combat capable. Best I can think of. Doesn't give heavy armor though. Emo backstory is part of the chassis.

[Vhaidara]

For the picture you have, my first instinct is to port the 3.5 feat Wild Cohort to get a giant bat.

I would say Warder, pick up Scarlet Throne (he seems to be an einhander character, which ST is great for) and Piercing Thunder (the discipline you get via Hussar). If you want him using the sword in both hands, just keep Primal Fury instead of trading it for Scarlet Throne.

[Elricaltovilla]

Sighs... what would you and Stack suggest for creating the Dark Knight going after the image I provided? I am going both for appearance and for theme. It seems the two of you have more experience then I do, so I am willing to differ two the two of you.

Well I answered you in a PM but I'll repost it here for posterity.


Well, you want an animal companion/mount, so that means Hussar. The Hussar also has other benefits, in that it gets 9th level maneuvers, tanking mechanics, a (mostly) unique discipline, and the Formations which offer potent all day buffs. Unless you want to be a Paladin, the Hussar is mechanically better in nearly every way.

Although Stack does make a very good suggestion in the Ravenlord Harbinger. Huge INT focus, highly mobile striker with a lot of debuff effects including illusion and teleportation effects... The Ravenlord Archetype gives an animal companion that can get big enough to ride on by 10th level. Might be a good way to go.

[stack]

Undersized mount gets you flying sooner. Don't recall what level the raven hits medium.

[Elricaltovilla]

Hmm... the Vigilante archetype for the Stalker is interesting, especially if combined with the Primal Fury dicipline. If I wanted to go closer to what Batman is and not go with the image I provided above I would actually switch to that. Yet I will put such aside since that wouldn't really work for a heavily armoured knight riding a dire bat, and that is the point of this thread.

Heh, just wanted to comment that the inspiration for the Vigilante archetype was "I wanna be Batman!"

I got yelled at for this.

[JonathonWilder]

Heh, just wanted to comment that the inspiration for the Vigilante archetype was "I wanna be Batman!"
I got yelled at for this.
I suspected as much, given how close the theme for the archetype combo seemed to scream 'This is Batman'. Why would you get yelled at?

[Kaidinah]

There is a dire bat animal companion already. It becomes large at 7th level. Its from the bestiary 1, page 30.

[Elricaltovilla]

I suspected as much, given how close the theme for the archetype combo seemed to scream 'This is Batman'. Why would you get yelled at?

Because I get yelled at about most of the stuff I write for DSP [/sarcasm]. I wanted to make it INT based, but the other writers didn't want to change Initiation Modifiers for the base classes, so I had to retrofit Wisdom onto the Investigator stuff.

[stack]

Medium size for the dark messenger of the Ravenlord comes at 4th, so pretty early for a flying mount (unless you are a druid), though you may need to pump its strength a bit. Retrain the undersized mount feat once you hit 10.

[Kaidinah]

Broken Blade: This is a weird combo, but you will most likely be using a simple weapon like a quarterstaff. Think of this as an armored Monk. Probably the least appealing of the combos, imo.Keep in mind shields are close weapons, so Broken Blade works ridiculously well with Iron Tortoise at laying a smackdown.

And is there a way besides GM fiat (which I think the OP said was okay in this thread?) for the Hussar to get the dire bat animal companion from bestiary 1? Like is there a feat to pick from the nonstandard animal companion list when you only have access to horses and stuff.

[(Un)Inspired]

If you want robin take eldritch heritage+arcane bloodline+improved familiar to get an imp.

Make it wear a robin costume.

Robin was always an impish sort of lad right?

It doesn't have to fit the picture perfectly right?

[JonathonWilder]

Because I get yelled at about most of the stuff I write for DSP [/sarcasm]. I wanted to make it INT based, but the other writers didn't want to change Initiation Modifiers for the base classes, so I had to retrofit Wisdom onto the Investigator stuff.
Ah I can see that, it is too bad that the Vigilante cannot have Int be primary stat but it can still be considered for an NPC referancing Batman.


Medium size for the dark messenger of the Ravenlord comes at 4th, so pretty early for a flying mount (unless you are a druid), though you may need to pump its strength a bit. Retrain the undersized mount feat once you hit 10.
I would rather have the NPC just start at level 10 so I don't have to worry about it.
----------------------------------------------------

Okay I have decided on a 'Bat Lord' Harbinger (Refluffed Raven Lord) build, working out details with Elricaltovilla and Stack in PM now.

I may just throw in a normal robin though Handle Animal or go with my idea of it being a squire ally that got turned into a robin.



And is there a way besides GM fiat (which I think the OP said was okay in this thread?) for the Hussar to get the dire bat animal companion from bestiary 1? Like is there a feat to pick from the nonstandard animal companion list when you only have access to horses and stuff.
I actually have a preferance to avoid DM fiat as much as possible, sticking to the rules where I can and when possible.

[Elricaltovilla]

That last quote you put in there was from Kaidinah, not me :smalltongue:

[JonathonWilder]

That last quote you put in there was from Kaidinah, not me :smalltongue:
Fixed quote, not sure how that happened.