armor and cantrips

[person29]

can one cast cantrips in armor they are not proficient with?

[Santra]

You cannot. Cantrips count as spells and you cannot cast spells while wearing armor you are not proficient in.

[person29]

Thats the reason I ask...because I believe in other situations cantrips and spells are separate things...such as you can cast a spell with a bonus action and still cast a cantrip with your action...but not another spell

[Chronos]

The rule isn't that you can't cast two spells in a round. The rule is that you can't cast two spells in a round unless one of them is a cantrip. Even there, cantrips are still treated as spells, just spells that work a little differently than other spells. But the rules about casting in armor never say that there's a difference, so there isn't.

[MeeposFire]

The rule isn't that you can't cast two spells in a round. The rule is that you can't cast two spells in a round unless one of them is a cantrip. Even there, cantrips are still treated as spells, just spells that work a little differently than other spells. But the rules about casting in armor never say that there's a difference, so there isn't.

ACtually that isn't the rule either though that is closer to what it should be honestly.

The actual rule is that you can only cast a cantrip after casting a bonus action spell. If you cast a bonus action cantrip (like shillelagh) then you still have to cast a cantrip afterword by RAW. If you cast a bonus action spell of any level then you also must cast a cantrip afterword.

Technically by RAW you can cast 2 non-cantrip spells in a round assuming you cast the non-bonus action spell first. Granted you should not allow this and houserule it away if you want the RAW rule to mean anything.

You can also cast 2 action spells in a round using action surge though by RAW this also gets screwed over by the silliness that is the bonus action casting rules if you cast a bonus action spell that round.

My version of the rule is that any round in which you are going to cast multiple spells and one is a bonus action spell one of the spells cast that round must be a cantrip. That actually allows all the rules to work as probably intended.

[rollingForInit]

Cantrips are explicitly stated to be spells.

http://dnd.wizards.com/products/tabletop/players-basic-rules under "What is a spell"



Every spell has a level from 0 to 9. A spell’s level is a general indicator of how powerful it is, with the lowly (but still impressive) magic missile at 1st level and the incredible time stop at 9th. Cantrips—simple but powerful spells that characters can cast almost by rote—are level 0. The higher a spell’s level, the higher level a spellcaster must be to use that spell.


Later it says



CASTING IN ARMOR

Because of the mental focus and precise gestures required for spellcasting, you must be proficient with the armor you are wearing to cast a spell. You are otherwise too distracted and physically hampered by your armor for spellcasting.


Any situation that is treated differently (such as Sorcerers with Quicken Spell), is a specific exception to that rule, and such exceptions cannot be generalised to apply anywhere else.

So no, you cannot ever cast cantrips while wearing armor you are not proficient in, unless there is a specific rule for a specific situation that overrides the general rule.

Of course, you could houserule to decide not to use the rule about spells and armor proficiency, which is fine if you want to. But it would be a houserule and you cannot claim it has any basis in the official rules.

[metaridley18]

ACtually that isn't the rule either though that is closer to what it should be honestly.

The actual rule is that you can only cast a cantrip after casting a bonus action spell. If you cast a bonus action cantrip (like shillelagh) then you still have to cast a cantrip afterword by RAW. If you cast a bonus action spell of any level then you also must cast a cantrip afterword.

Technically by RAW you can cast 2 non-cantrip spells in a round assuming you cast the non-bonus action spell first. Granted you should not allow this and houserule it away if you want the RAW rule to mean anything.

You can also cast 2 action spells in a round using action surge though by RAW this also gets screwed over by the silliness that is the bonus action casting rules if you cast a bonus action spell that round.

My version of the rule is that any round in which you are going to cast multiple spells and one is a bonus action spell one of the spells cast that round must be a cantrip. That actually allows all the rules to work as probably intended.

You can also cast a REACTION spell in the same turn that you cast a normal action spell (but not in the same turn that you cast a bonus action spell). All sorts of weird implications there.

[xyianth]

You can also cast a REACTION spell in the same turn that you cast a normal action spell (but not in the same turn that you cast a bonus action spell). All sorts of weird implications there.

Correct me if I am wrong, but turn =/= round. Reactions are taken on other creature's turns, not necessarily your own. As a result, I don't think the bonus action casting rules interfere with reactions, even RAW.

[MarkTriumphant]

Correct me if I am wrong, but turn =/= round. Reactions are taken on other creature's turns, not necessarily your own. As a result, I don't think the bonus action casting rules interfere with reactions, even RAW.

Unlike 4th (I can't remember the rules for 3.5), in 5th there do not appear to be any restrictions on when a reaction can be used, so if necessary it can be used on your own turn.

[metaridley18]

Unlike 4th (I can't remember the rules for 3.5), in 5th there do not appear to be any restrictions on when a reaction can be used, so if necessary it can be used on your own turn.

The rules on reactions explicitly say they can be used on your own turn. The odd implications come from the weird wording of bonus action spells. Max number of spells in a turn appears to Cantrip + Bonus Action spell (no Reaction cast possible until your turn has ended) OR Reaction + Action (+1 if action surge, but no Bonus Action cast possible).

[MeeposFire]

You can also cast a REACTION spell in the same turn that you cast a normal action spell (but not in the same turn that you cast a bonus action spell). All sorts of weird implications there.

I forgot about reaction spells since I tend to not think of using them on your own turn but yes that too is affected by the current rule. My version of the rule would fix that assuming that at least one spell used that turn was a cantrip.