Spider-Man joins the MCU

[SaintRidley]

Check out Marvel's announcement (http://marvel.com/news/movies/24062/sony_pictures_entertainment_brings_marvel_studios_ into_the_amazing_world_of_spider-man).

io9's Meredith Woerner gets to the important bits right away:


=Meredith Woerner]Marvel just announced that Spider-Man will appear in an unspecified Marvel film, that takes place in the Marvel Cinematic Universe. Then after this "appearance":


"Sony Pictures will thereafter release the next installment of its $4 billion Spider-Man franchise, on July 28, 2017, in a film that will be co-produced by Kevin Feige and his expert team at Marvel and Amy Pascal.... Together, they will collaborate on a new creative direction for the web slinger. Sony Pictures will continue to finance, distribute, own and have final creative control of the Spider-Man films.

In addition, Thor: Ragnarok, Black Panther, Captain Marvel, and Inhumans have been pushed back (http://marvel.com/news/movies/24065/marvel_studios_schedules_new_release_dates_for_4_f ilms#ixzz3RJe45100) a half a year (Nov. 3, 2017, July 6, 2018, Nov. 2, 2018, and July 12, 2019, respectively).


So, what do we want to see from this?

I'm personally hoping we get Peter cameoing in one of the upcoming - say Cap 3 - and then we get his own movie afterward, in which he dies and we get the MCU's own Spider-Man, a kid named Miles Morales. Boom. Baggage from previous iterations of the Spider-Man franchise are pretty well dropped except for what Marvel would like to cherry-pick for the MCU, and we get Miles Morales on the big screen.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

I'm personally hoping we get Peter cameoing in one of the upcoming - say Cap 3 - and then we get his own movie afterward, in which he dies and we get the MCU's own Spider-Man, a kid named Miles Morales. Boom. Baggage from previous iterations of the Spider-Man franchise are pretty well dropped except for what Marvel would like to cherry-pick for the MCU, and we get Miles Morales on the big screen.
Miles is not only my hope, but he's my pick for "best bet". Having a Spiderman who isn't Peter Parker is probably just the sort of distinction they need to come with an agreement with Sony. Plus, it fits with Marvel's current very public moves to diversify the cast of their comics, and it wouldn't be the first time they pulled from the Ultimate-verse.

[Seerow]

I'm mostly worried by Sony maintaining creative control. I hope it works out well (and did this hit early enough to get Spidey in for Civil War?), but I kind of expect the cooperation to breakdown somewhere along the line when Sony and Marvel can't agree on some major point, Sony puts their foot down, and it screws up Marvel's larger picture plans.

[BeerMug Paladin]

Seems like a pretty smart thing to do from a business angle. Now that the groundwork has been laid for deals like this, they'll probably do the same thing for the X-men.

Repeat ad naseum until every superhero movie is in the same universe. Or until the bubble bursts.

[LadyEowyn]

Since Sony (and a lot of other people) seem to regard Marvel's films as a lot more successful, and what Sony wants most is to make a lot of money off of Spider-Man, I suspect they'll largely be willing to listen to Marvel's ideas of what to do with the film.

(In fact, ASM1 made more money than Captain America: The Winter Soldier, and ASM2 made about the same domestically as Thor: The Dark World, and significantly more globally. Both of those are regarded as financial successes, so it's not clear why the Spider-Man films are regarded as unsuccessful, except that Sony hoped they would make even more money than they did. ASM2 was a bad movie, true, but so was Thor 2. And ASM 1 was good.)

I'm disappointed that Marvel is bumping back the Black Panther and Captain Marvel movies, but I'm still interested to see what they do with Spider-Man. Sorry to lose Garfield, though, he did a good job of the part.

[Talakeal]

Oh boy! If Spider Man is in Civil War then maybe they could follow it up by bringing One More Day to the big screen! Actually, as messed up as the Spider Man continuity already is with all the reboots and retcons, a deal with the devil might be just what we need...

On a serious note, did they actually say for sure they were recasting Spider Man? I personally thought that Garfield was a vast improvement over Maguire, one of the few positive changes in the reboots. Seriously, why did they feel a need to do a reboot so quickly?

Honestly, I think if they had just recast Andrew Garfield and Emma Stone as Peter and MJ* and then used the Lizard, Electro, and Rhino plots as Spider Man 4 and 5 without trying to redo the Spider Man and Green Goblin origin stories they would have a great series. Heck, they could still use the setup for Sinister Six and Black Cat movies more or less unaltered. And its not like they are running out of villains anytime soon (Kraven, Carnage, Vulture, Mysterio, Hobgoblin, Scorpion, Chameleon just off the top of my head) even without resorting to B listers or resurrecting / reusing old villains.


*Does anyone else find it kind of funny that they had the blond Kirsten Dunst die her hair red to play Mary Jane and the redhead Emma Stone die her hair blonde to play Gwen Stacey?

[Soras Teva Gee]

Well looks like Sony can read the writing on the wall and has decided they have enough problems.

This is happening because Amazing 2 with a mere $200 mil (http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=amazingspiderman2.htm) domestic box office with a reported $200 mil budget (http://variety.com/2014/film/news/analysts-sony-pictures-needs-to-release-more-release-more-tentpoles-1201118909/), even that nice (but much less profitable) international return puts this at more break even and Sony possibly lost money. And perhaps even more importantly the franchise (http://www.boxofficemojo.com/franchises/chart/?id=spiderman.htm) is diminishing with each film.

When your latest faire is under half the gross of the original its time to stop digging.

[RoboChap]

I can picture the Age of Ultron post credits scene now:

A first person view of someone flicking through some excellent action photos of The Avengers saving the day. Suddenly, the photos are thrown across the room and we scroll up to JK Simmons, foaming at the mouth and screaming at the new Spider-Man actor "Parker, what is this trash?! Nobody wants to see photos of these goody goody heroes! We need pictures of that wallcrawling menace! Bring me pictures of Spider-Man, or you're fired!"

Ok, so probably not, but I would love to see JKS back as JJJ...

[lord_khaine]

When your latest faire is under half the gross of the original its time to stop digging.

Hmm.. i guess repeatedly churning out rebooted Spiderman movies, as well as stiff competition from the remaining Marvel universe have taken a large bite out of the Spiderman gross..?

[Seerow]

I can picture the Age of Ultron post credits scene now:

A first person view of someone flicking through some excellent action photos of The Avengers saving the day. Suddenly, the photos are thrown across the room and we scroll up to JK Simmons, foaming at the mouth and screaming at the new Spider-Man actor "Parker, what is this trash?! Nobody wants to see photos of these goody goody heroes! We need pictures of that wallcrawling menace! Bring me pictures of Spider-Man, or you're fired!"

Ok, so probably not, but I would love to see JKS back as JJJ...

JKS is the best JJJ.

[LadyEowyn]

Hmm.. i guess repeatedly churning out rebooted Spiderman movies, as well as stiff competition from the remaining Marvel universe have taken a large bite out of the Spiderman gross..?

Every successive Spider-Man movie has made less money than the previous one (domestically): Spider-Man $404 mil., Spider-Man 2 $374 mil., Spider-Man 3 $337 mil., ASM1 $262 mil., and ASM2 $203 mil.

Since those are still pretty good numbers for a blockbuster, I think another part of it is that Sony's production costs are out of control, even for a superhero movie. According to Box Office Mojo, Spider-Man 3 cost $258 mil., and ASM1 cost $230 mil.; in each case, that's more than the cost of The Avengers. Nonetheless, all the Spider-Man movies have made tons of money worldwide (ASM2 is the lowest at $709), so Sony's got to have pretty terrible business management to not be making substantial money off the franchise.

I'm disappointed that they're dropping Garfield, as he's been a very good Spider-Man (much better than Tobey MacGuire, in my opinion), but I heard that they were dropping him regardless as he'd made some negative public comments about Sony's involvement in the making of ASM2:


It’s interesting. I read a lot of the reactions from people and I had to stop because I could feel I was getting away from how I actually felt about it. For me, I read the script that Alex [Kurtzman] and Bob [Orci] wrote, and I genuinely loved it. There was this thread running through it. I think what happened was, through the pre-production, production, and post-production, when you have something that works as a whole, and then you start removing portions of it—because there was even more of it than was in the final cut, and everything was related. Once you start removing things and saying, “No, that doesn’t work,” then the thread is broken, and it’s hard to go with the flow of the story. Certain people at the studio had problems with certain parts of it, and ultimately the studio is the final say in those movies because they’re the tentpoles, so you have to answer to those people.

[Jayngfet]

Honestly I'm not super thrilled about this. Peter being out of Marvel's hands is the only reason we got Guardians of the Galaxy instead of another Spiderman sequel. Now that they can use the character a lot of their second and third tier franchises are going to be pushed back to make room.

Additionally, there's still all that stuff they can't use. The Fantastic Four were a huge part of Peter's early comics and Johnny Storm is one of his best friends. A truly integrated Spider-Man can't really happen and he's not nearly as good friends with the people he's hanging out with now.

[Kitten Champion]

I didn't hate Sony's Amazing Spider-Man reboot like some, but the feeling that the films were being held back - being merely mediocre - by the obtrusive franchise management strategies of the studio was somewhat palpable. I'm especially sick of seeing Kurtzman and Orci attached to film projects I'd normally be interested in, they're far too lazy as screenwriters.

I earnestly hope it's Miles Morales they use. I could list the reasons why, but top among them is that after 5 movies I simply can't bring myself to care about another Peter Parker story.

[t209]

I didn't hate Sony's Amazing Spider-Man reboot like some, but the feeling that the films were being held back - being merely mediocre - by the obtrusive franchise management strategies of the studio was somewhat palpable. I'm especially sick of seeing Kurtzman and Orci attached to film projects I'd normally be interested in, they're far too lazy as screenwriters.

I earnestly hope it's Miles Morales they use. I could list the reasons why, but top among them is that after 5 movies I simply can't bring myself to care about another Peter Parker story.
Either they kill of peter or Tobey Macguire as a cameo, who would play as Peter Parker who retired after having kid with MJ like combination of Ultimate and MC2 (definitely would not happen since Joe Q's still in the movie department).
On the opinion on Black Panther/T'Challa, I hope they didn't portray his country as the only utopia in Africa (http://www.cracked.com/article_20082_6-insane-stereotypes-that-movies-cant-seem-to-get-over.html) (which the writers wouldn't know about relatively stable countries other than South Africa, probably the ones made by Blokamp).

[Calemyr]

JKS is the best JJJ.

That's slander!

JJJ: No, it's not! I take offense to that! In print, it's libel.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

I'm mostly worried by Sony maintaining creative control. I hope it works out well (and did this hit early enough to get Spidey in for Civil War?), but I kind of expect the cooperation to breakdown somewhere along the line when Sony and Marvel can't agree on some major point, Sony puts their foot down, and it screws up Marvel's larger picture plans.
My money's on "the combined power of Disney and Marvel is more than enough to quash over-interference by Sony."

[Psyren]

Honestly I'm not sure they should do Miles. Using him would likely require another origin story (the non-comic reading audience will all be like "Why is Spiderman blatino?"), whereas using Peter we can just kinda assume he's had his powers for a while and is just swinging around.

...How *did* Miles become the webhead anyway?


I'm mostly worried by Sony maintaining creative control. I hope it works out well (and did this hit early enough to get Spidey in for Civil War?), but I kind of expect the cooperation to breakdown somewhere along the line when Sony and Marvel can't agree on some major point, Sony puts their foot down, and it screws up Marvel's larger picture plans.

If that happens, Marvel will likely take a potshot at them in some way, similar to them tweaking Fox's nose over Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch.

[SaintRidley]

Miles became spider-powered by getting bitten by a spider that had been genetically enhanced using Peter's blood. Then, eventually, he sees Peter die and realizes that he could have helped prevent that if he had embraced the idea of using the powers he'd developed.

Also, updates (http://io9.com/spider-man-joins-captain-america-civil-war-and-more-mo-1685001662):

Civil War cameo confirmed.

Sinister Six will still happen, but Sony has decided to rethink its approach to the movie (presumably to include Spider-Man, since they had the incredible dumbass idea to not include Spider-Man in it when they conceived of the movie).

Andrew Garfield is definitely out.

[Metahuman1]

My money's on "the combined power of Disney and Marvel is more than enough to quash over-interference by Sony."

Alas, with out Joss Wheadon, it won't be enough to Quash interference form Joe Quesada.



Yeah, this is the worst possible time for this to happen. Quesada's gonna find a way to screw this up. I'll bet he will absolutely refuse to let it get out of scripting unless it's Peter Parker and he's dating his daughter, who will be cast as his real life daughter, at the end. :smallsigh:




Maybe it will bomb ultra hard and Quesada will be the one left to blame and Disney will fire him, that's honestly the best case I can hope for right now.

[Aotrs Commander]

Mixed feelings about this. On the one hand, Spidey - MCU = good. On the other hand, I only saw ASM 2, but I thought Andrew Garfield made an excellent Spider-Man, more so than Toby Maguire. (Jury's out on Peter Parker, mind.) Also reboot (again) and you know how I hate tho-


Sinister Six will still happen, but Sony has decided to rethink its approach to the movie (presumably to include Spider-Man, since they had the incredible dumbass idea to not include Spider-Man in it when they conceived of the movie).

*mental screech to halt*

What.

WHAT.

WHAT!

They were actually going to...?

Without...?

Just...

I...

How did...?

Who...?

...

...

See, this is why I have no faith in humanity at all. Someone was actually paid to come up with an idea THAT stupid, and somebodies else were paid to authorise it. And at no point did was someone paid to hit both of those parties in the skull with a shovel until they stopped being so absolutely impossibly moronic.

[Metahuman1]

You think that's bad? Just wait till Quesada actually get's to have a large budget and creative control of Spidey for live action main stream films.

[JoshL]

Miles. Donald Glover. We need this to happen.

[BeerMug Paladin]

Sinister Six will still happen, but Sony has decided to rethink its approach to the movie (presumably to include Spider-Man, since they had the incredible dumbass idea to not include Spider-Man in it when they conceived of the movie).

Isn't whether or not having a character show up the sort of thing that a writer decides on when crafting a story?

[Metahuman1]

In this case, it would be the equivalent of doing a movie about Lex Luther, Metallo, Parasite and Livewire with out letting superman be in the movie.

[BeerMug Paladin]

In this case, it would be the equivalent of doing a movie about Lex Luther, Metallo, Parasite and Livewire with out letting superman be in the movie.

If Superman/(Spiderman) would be irrelevant to the plot for a theoretical story, it would be appropriate to leave him out. Especially since he could potentially overshadow the main characters. Every minute of screen time devoted to a side character detracts from the time given to a main character(s).

It's an even bigger potential problem when you're trying to make a movie for audiences who have no idea who multiple main characters are before going in. You'd need precious screen time to develop them.

Anyway, it just strikes me as odd to be approving of producer intervention. That is usually not a good sign.

[Soras Teva Gee]

Isn't whether or not having a character show up the sort of thing that a writer decides on when crafting a story?

Not really. Movies are only occasionally "written" in that sense.

Rather the sort of stuff a writer might brainstorm for a novel is handled by... anyone who's anyone in the project. Because if say the director wants something, since they actually make it they can get it and certainly cut things they don't like.

Sometimes this works well enough, the MCU is a great example where there's a large studio level plan and particular directors/writers/etc/etc and if any one person runs it is Kevin Feige but the Avengers is still obviously Whedon's work. Other times you get hairdressers wanting polar bears and giant spiders (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUwkqeI7XWk).

Anyways its completely normal for the characters to be set and the story written around set elements.

[Legato Endless]

Honestly I'm not sure they should do Miles. Using him would likely require another origin story (the non-comic reading audience will all be like "Why is Spiderman blatino?"), whereas using Peter we can just kinda assume he's had his powers for a while and is just swinging around.


Yeah, one would think the market for Super Hero origin stories would collapse at some point, but they just keep pumping out. At least Dr. Strange seems to actually be established for his film.

Update: Apparently they're skewing the character younger this time, since the first several films is supposed to be set in High School, unlike the previous outings where that was abandoned after Act 1. No confirmation, but apparently they are considering using Miles and not Pete.

[Lizard Lord]

My main hope with this is that it gets Agent Venom in the MCU's Guardians of the Galaxy.

[t209]

My main hope with this is that it gets Agent Venom in the MCU's Guardians of the Galaxy.
So, I wonder if the audience are ready for the fact that
- Peter Parker is an adult (used to be married with Mary Jane until Joe Q ruined it) and a CEO of Parker Industries (now many of his gadgets can be used for practical purposes from hip replacements to cybernetic limbs).
- Flash Thompson (Agent Venom) as a sympathetic military man and friend of Peter Parker.

[jedipotter]

So, what do we want to see from this?


Lets hope for not too much. Even in the comics, Spider Man was always an Outcast. He really does not fit in with the rest of the Marvel Universe. Sure he guest stars here and there, but he is not a part of the universe.

And Spider Man has the weird bit of being a criminal vigilantly, and that does not really fit in with the Marvel Heroes. Though I bet that is exactly why they want Spider Man in the MCU: he is the poster boy of the whole Civil War. And Marvel is obsessed with the idea that they must do a Civil War movie.

[Ichneumon]

I have mixed feelings about this as well. I love the MCU (although not every movie has been great, they haven't delivered a really bad movie yet) and spider-man is my favorite superhero (I have a comic book subscription), but at this point, I'm feeling a bit of spider-man fatigue. In the past 12 years, we've had 5 spider-man movies already and the last one I actually really enjoyed was Spiderman 2 in 2004.

I'm also not sure what they should do with him, beyond Civil War. They have already rebooted the franchise once, so telling an origin story again would be a no go, but even if they don't, they'll have to re-cast important characters like Aunt May etc. The only way to avoid this is to have a spider-man movie that is less focussed on his personal life, but that was always one of the unique qualities of spider-man as a superhero.

Amazing Spiderman 2 was bad, although I liked that they stayed true to the source material. Too bad it was really too crowded and just a bad script. With source material like that, you should be able to do more with it. But I think it is unlikely they'll try to retell the same stories again... AGAIN. But then what? Miles Morales? I'm not against it, but I'm also not a fan. To me, Peter Parker is spider-man, and replacing him with somebody else might be fun for a one-shot or a short comic series, similar to how they've replaced Captain America and Thor now in the comics, but if they make movies, I want to see Peter Parker.

[Psyren]

In this case, it would be the equivalent of doing a movie about Lex Luther, Metallo, Parasite and Livewire with out letting superman be in the movie.

...They all chase Mxyzptlk?


Yeah, one would think the market for Super Hero origin stories would collapse at some point, but they just keep pumping out. At least Dr. Strange seems to actually be established for his film.

They've claimed "no origin story" for Strange, but if you truly think there won't be some kind of exposition or flashback in that entire movie explaining the hands/surgery thing then I have a bridge to sell you.

[Legato Endless]

They've claimed "no origin story" for Strange, but if you truly think there won't be some kind of exposition or flashback in that entire movie explaining the hands/surgery thing then I have a bridge to sell you.

Oh I don't doubt that will be a reference here and there, combined with a potential bevy of allusions, but there's a vague possibility that will be truncated to a single scene or two. Enduring that is much easier than having to wait 45 minutes while we get a long introduction through some hospital scenes filled with medical people of no import and then Strange goes on a journey and learns about magic.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

RE: the origin story bit, don't forget that Guardians of the Galaxy used five-minute (give or take a few minutes) origin stories for each main character.

[BRC]

There is a difference between showing the origin story, and the movie being an origin story.

[Zmeoaice]

I don't care whether Spider-Man is in the MCU or not, because he works well in his own universe. However, I'm glad the Amazing Spider-Man series is ending because those were mediocre films at best and terrible adaptations of Spider-Man.

[Metahuman1]

The second one was an awful film. The first one was actually rather good.


Don't worry though, Joe Quesada is already hard at work screwing that up I'm quite sure.



As I said, the only good thing I hope will come out of this is Quesada will be fired, blacklisted form anything Disney has any say in for life, and everything he's ever done will be promptly retconned.

[Psyren]

RE: the origin story bit, don't forget that Guardians of the Galaxy used five-minute (give or take a few minutes) origin stories for each main character.

Starlord's was much more substantial (the intro, then his interactions with Yondu that further elaborated on his upbringing.) The others got a blurb at most but they didn't really need more than that. That's the kind of thing I expect for Strange.

When I hear a phrase like "no origin story" - I think of Avengers or X-Men (the first one), where none of the characters needed one because they were already established.


The second one was an awful film. The first one was actually rather good.


Don't worry though, Joe Quesada is already hard at work screwing that up I'm quite sure.



As I said, the only good thing I hope will come out of this is Quesada will be fired, blacklisted form anything Disney has any say in for life, and everything he's ever done will be promptly retconned.

You shouldn't bottle up your emotions like that, tell us how you really feel about the guy :smallwink:

[Metahuman1]

Let me put it this way. You know how on this forum I'm infamous for my Hate of Attack on Titan?

I hate Joe Quesada about as much. The only difference is most people either feel that he's earned it (Unlike with Titan.), or can be convinced when I show that the best arguments to his defense don't hold water and have actual numbers to back it up. (Argument 1: It's was one story. No, it wasn't, he was also editor in chief for Avengers vs. X-men, Civil War, Avengers Arena, and Ultimatum. He could and should have stopped all of them and didn't. And he also Mandated Sin's Past and One Moment In Time to compound OMD. Or having Sam as Captain America call a political group Quesada personally doesn't like nothing but a bunch of old greedy racists. Yeah, that was him too, at least he was made to apologize for that one.

Argument 2: He saved Marvel from going Bankrupt after the speculator bubble burst. No, he didn't Avi Arid did, he's just done a bad job of making sure credit goes were credit is due, which is just one more reason he's loathsome and contemptible.)

[Prime32]

Let me put it this way. You know how on this forum I'm infamous for my Hate of Attack on Titan?

I hate Joe Quesada about as much.I can't imagine how you feel about this (http://imgur.com/a/KXecP) then. :smalltongue:

[Metahuman1]

Ignoring my issues with Marvel's comic line, and likely soon to be issues with there movies, watching the most overrated godmodded Villain sue's in recent memory get near effortlessly obliterated by opponents at a half way capable power level is nice.


My only regret is no Deadpool being carried into battle by a swinging spider-man, swords drawn, singing the Attack On Titan first intro song while he does, and no Thor to drop the Colossal Titan with no effort on his part and snark that he's still fought bigger.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

I can't imagine how you feel about this (http://imgur.com/a/KXecP) then. :smalltongue:
That was a best hits of everything awesome.

[t209]

I can't imagine how you feel about this (http://imgur.com/a/KXecP) then. :smalltongue:
Well, a better idea would be
- if Deadpool got eaten and turned into Titan (I know you need a special medicine for this but I think regeneration might work). Possibly ditch the inheritors there if they are defeated.
- Any reviews on that arc since I did not like the idea of crossover since the only threatening titan would be Colossus (Regeneration, Invulnerability, and artillery can beat him even if they buff him up) and Armored Titan (As long as there are armor penetration rounds or super strength to rip them out). I am feeling like Garth Ennis' view on Super Heroes when I see that comic (Superhero kinda ruin the average joes going against something superior against them without modern artillery and bazooka).
- Damage Control: Corpse Disposal edition, more like acid dissolved corpse (http://mangachrome.co/shingeki-no-kyojin/15/23/).

[Psyren]

I can't imagine how you feel about this (http://imgur.com/a/KXecP) then. :smalltongue:

Nnh!!

...Anyone have a Kleenex? :smalltongue:

[Logic]

I want to have my cake and eat it too.

If it were me directing/screenwriting/producing, the next Spider-Man film would open with a battle scene. Peter vs Norman. And in the process, Peter dies, but prevents Norman from doing any more harm (preferably, not dying as well, but incapacitated.)

Act 1 is flashback 6 months to Miles' story. Do his origin as quickly as possible, but have his family remark on Spider-Man as they do in the comics (Dad hates him, Mom kinda likes him.) Then, end Act 1 where Peter dies, but this time from Miles' perspective.

The next two acts are Miles' exclusively, and his attempt to live up to his perceptions of Peter. Throw whatever hi-jinx you would have thrown at Peter instead, with the added benefit of not having to do a villain origin story for anyone either. A bonus if you use a villain already seen in any previous Spider-Man movie, because the audience will presumably just get that this villain probably got their powers and motivation basically the same way.

And in the interest of full disclosure: I hated when I learned that Ultimate Peter Parker was being replaced. Ultimate Spider-Man was the comic series that got me back to reading comics regularly. So when I learned they will killing my favorite character to replace him with Miles, I thought it was a publicity stunt and a PC PR move.

But, I am glad I was wrong. Miles' stories have been just as interesting as Peter's. In some cases, more so. I really like Peter, and I identify more with him, but I think putting Miles on the Silver Screen could be just as good, if not better, than a third Peter Parker.

[Metahuman1]

Just get ready to be disappointed Logic, and voice all that Disappointment at Disney, while at the same time blaming Joe Quesada for it, in the hopes that they can get him out of there before he wrecks the whole MCU Phase 3 and 4.

[Zmeoaice]

IDGAF about Miles. Peter Parker or GTFO.

[Sith_Happens]

I didn't hate Sony's Amazing Spider-Man reboot like some, but the feeling that the films were being held back - being merely mediocre - by the obtrusive franchise management strategies of the studio was somewhat palpable.

Personally I thought Lizard and Electro's movies were both pretty darn good. It's Green Goblin II's movie that was awful.


*mental screech to halt*

What.

WHAT.

WHAT!

They were actually going to...?

Without...?

Just...

I...

How did...?

Who...?

...

...

See, this is why I have no faith in humanity at all. Someone was actually paid to come up with an idea THAT stupid, and somebodies else were paid to authorise it. And at no point did was someone paid to hit both of those parties in the skull with a shovel until they stopped being so absolutely impossibly moronic.

http://img.fark.net/images/cache/850/g/gu/fark_guDKXCDboj8P4H32jfX-nd-pZC8.jpg?t=j-oIIBKnPMK5Oc2oz5NTQA&f=1424062800

As for the discussion of Miles Morales, my thoughts are that after seeing Peter Parker's story twice people are ready for someone else's. Doesn't matter to me whose since I'm not much a comic reader, but since Miles specifically is (from what I've heard) more than well-written enough I say go for it.

[Seerow]

As for the discussion of Miles Morales, my thoughts are that after seeing Peter Parker's story twice people are ready for someone else's. Doesn't matter to me whose since I'm not much a comic reader, but since Miles specifically is (from what I've heard) more than well-written enough I say go for it.


The only real problem with Miles is that we'd have to see at least a short bit about his origin or people are going to go "Why is this Miles kid spiderman instead of Peter Parker?". Whereas if you stick with Peter, you can jump right into a non-origin storyline without having to waste a bunch of screen time explaining a new character.

[Metahuman1]

Also you'd have to get Joe Quesada to be something that in a vague abstract way resembles intelligent, reasonable, decent or senseless.



This being the man who things people who are fans of Marvel or Disney are by default losers, period, end of story, good luck with that.

[GloatingSwine]

If Superman/(Spiderman) would be irrelevant to the plot for a theoretical story, it would be appropriate to leave him out. Especially since he could potentially overshadow the main characters. Every minute of screen time devoted to a side character detracts from the time given to a main character(s).

Hard to do though, because most villains define themselves by the heroes they oppose. They just don't have many stories that don't involve their nemesis.

[Phobia]

Suicide Squad?

[Metahuman1]

Secret Six. Thunderbolts. Joker (He had his own comic for a short period of time.). Harley and Ivy. Venom. (I think Carnage had one as well.).

[BeerMug Paladin]

Hard to do though, because most villains define themselves by the heroes they oppose. They just don't have many stories that don't involve their nemesis.

Oh, I'll certainly give you that. My point was that if a story as written doesn't already include a particular character, that story has a low chance of being improved by a mandate to shoehorn another character into it. There's two possible scenarios here.

If they already have something written without the character and they're going to squeeze that character in now, it's a bad sign. If there actually isn't a story written yet, but the parameters of the writing process have changed, then it's not a bad sign. It sounds like what is happening is the former, hence my statement.

Although in the latter case there are still potential problems with overshadowing and such, that's a different concern and I think is more unlikely to cause issues.

[Lizard Lord]

Did I miss something? Why is Disney going to let Quesada have a hand in the MCU Spider-Man movies, Or more importantly what evidence do we have of that happening? He had nothing to do with the others so far as I can tell and I believe Quesada has stopped being Spider-Man specific. As far as I knew Kevin Feige was in charge of the MCU and with the success so far I can't imagine that changing.

[Metahuman1]

On June 2, 2010 Marvel announced that it promoted Joe Quesada to Chief Creative Officer of Marvel Entertainment. In this position Quesada will help ensure that all portrayals of Marvel's characters and stories remain true to the essence of Marvel history. He will also oversee the creative aspects of media adaptations of Marvel properties, which include participating in story and script development.


Translation? The only reasons he hasn't buggered it up yet are 1: no opportunity to use his favorite plaything spider-man due to another studio having the rights, and Joss Wheadon was running the show. (There 2010 and 2011 movies would have been too far into the works for him to do much when he took the promotion.)

Joss is stepping down after Avengers 2 so that he can take time to work on other independent projects.

And Spidey just got film rights dropped in Quesada's lap.

The two things stopping him form doing this, are no longer there.





Thus, I repeat, my sincere hope is that when he DOES inevitably *$#! everything up for Spidey and possibly the MCU in the process, people will finally, vocally, en mass, hold him accountable and make it clear to Disney they want him gone, and will avoid the movie to a level that it will flop, and Disney will blame him (rightfully I might add.) and fire him. And not politely and with many hard feelings to make sure he never ever returns.

[Jayngfet]

Secret Six. Thunderbolts. Joker (He had his own comic for a short period of time.). Harley and Ivy. Venom. (I think Carnage had one as well.).

Secret Society of Super Villains.

Which was hilarious mainly because of how much it crapped on the idea that a hero needs a villain or notable villains taking precedence. Lex Luthor shows up just long enough to be mocked to hell and back and schooled by a Z Lister. Green Lantern shows up just long enough to be totally useless. The bad guys mostly pull through anyway.


Did I miss something? Why is Disney going to let Quesada have a hand in the MCU Spider-Man movies, Or more importantly what evidence do we have of that happening? He had nothing to do with the others so far as I can tell and I believe Quesada has stopped being Spider-Man specific. As far as I knew Kevin Feige was in charge of the MCU and with the success so far I can't imagine that changing.

I think a bunch of comics people were behind the TV stuff like USM and the presumption is that they'll have authority here too.

[GloatingSwine]

They've claimed "no origin story" for Strange, but if you truly think there won't be some kind of exposition or flashback in that entire movie explaining the hands/surgery thing then I have a bridge to sell you.

There's a difference between "Dr. Strange relates origin in flashback at some point" and "Dr. Strage spends 33% of own movie not being Dr. Strange*."



Suicide Squad?

The Squad was, when they incarnated it in its modern form as a villain team, mostly comprised of characters who didn't really have a strong tie to a particular hero, fill-ins like deadshot who just show up whenever you happen to need someone like deadshot not because Batman is around.

Same with most of Thunderbolts and other "villain led" pieces, they use the c-list and under because the a-list villains have a hero they arch for.


* I am aware that he was Dr. Strange before he was Dr. Strange, IYKWIM.

[Lizard Lord]

On June 2, 2010 Marvel announced that it promoted Joe Quesada to Chief Creative Officer of Marvel Entertainment. In this position Quesada will help ensure that all portrayals of Marvel's characters and stories remain true to the essence of Marvel history. He will also oversee the creative aspects of media adaptations of Marvel properties, which include participating in story and script development.


Translation? The only reasons he hasn't buggered it up yet are 1: no opportunity to use his favorite plaything spider-man due to another studio having the rights, and Joss Wheadon was running the show. (There 2010 and 2011 movies would have been too far into the works for him to do much when he took the promotion.)

Joss is stepping down after Avengers 2 so that he can take time to work on other independent projects.

And Spidey just got film rights dropped in Quesada's lap.

The two things stopping him form doing this, are no longer there.





Thus, I repeat, my sincere hope is that when he DOES inevitably *$#! everything up for Spidey and possibly the MCU in the process, people will finally, vocally, en mass, hold him accountable and make it clear to Disney they want him gone, and will avoid the movie to a level that it will flop, and Disney will blame him (rightfully I might add.) and fire him. And not politely and with many hard feelings to make sure he never ever returns.

Sounds to me like he will be guiding the movies but not running them. There is a difference and that difference matters a lot.

[Metahuman1]

Sorta like how the editor in chief doesn't mandate/write/ghost write characters? And instead oversees storylines to make sure writers don't make characters do things that fly directly in the face of that characters entire character and canon?


I.E., things he totally ignored, because he did mandate/write/ghost write characters and didn't bother to provide the afore described supervision.




Yeah, not buying it. He couldn't be trusted on the comics themselves, he can't be trusted in the movies with out people standing over the top of him holding his career at metaphorical gun point every second waking or otherwise. And now he's not gonna have that form the sound of it.

[Jayngfet]

There's a difference between "Dr. Strange relates origin in flashback at some point" and "Dr. Strage spends 33% of own movie not being Dr. Strange*."




The Squad was, when they incarnated it in its modern form as a villain team, mostly comprised of characters who didn't really have a strong tie to a particular hero, fill-ins like deadshot who just show up whenever you happen to need someone like deadshot not because Batman is around.

Same with most of Thunderbolts and other "villain led" pieces, they use the c-list and under because the a-list villains have a hero they arch for.


* I am aware that he was Dr. Strange before he was Dr. Strange, IYKWIM.

Or again, the secret society. Wherein people's "arch enemy" can just go off and do their own things.

Because strange as it is to say, having one character's life revolve around the other is kinda ridiculous. Because generally it means whenever they aren't onscreen they just twiddle their thumbs.

[Foeofthelance]

Regarding the question of using Miles and doing an origin story for him, it recently came out in the books that his father was an undercover SHIELD agent working for the Kingpin at Fury's direction. So rather than showing Miles watching Pete get killed, they could just back door it that way. Maybe his dad gets back from raiding OsCorp, the spider tags along, Miles gets bit.

[Raimun]

What I've read of this "Sony-Marvel"-Spider-Man, it seems pretty clear that Peter Parker will be Spider-Man.

Besides, not having Parker would be like doing a live action Batman-movie where Bruce Wayne is not Batman, ie. it would be automatically wrong. Just like there is only one Batman, there is only one Spider-Man. Accept no substitutes.

I just hope that Spidey has plenty of opportunities to do that banter with the other heroes they had in the first Avengers-movie. I do feel that Parker was missing from all of those moments, since it is right up his alley in the comics.

[Rakaydos]

What I've read of this "Sony-Marvel"-Spider-Man, it seems pretty clear that Peter Parker will be Spider-Man.

Besides, not having Parker would be like doing a live action Batman-movie where Bruce Wayne is not Batman, ie. it would be automatically wrong. Just like there is only one Batman, there is only one Spider-Man. Accept no substitutes.

I just hope that Spidey has plenty of opportunities to do that banter with the other heroes they had in the first Avengers-movie. I do feel that Parker was missing from all of those moments, since it is right up his alley in the comics.

Except siderman isnt batman, he's like Green Lantern- he same powerset and title was held by multiple people.

[Raimun]

Except siderman isnt batman, he's like Green Lantern- he same powerset and title was held by multiple people.

I'm assuming we are still talking about Spider-Man and not some cider powered superhero.

Spider-Man is Peter Parker. There was no Clone Saga.

[Jayngfet]

I'm assuming we are still talking about Spider-Man and not some cider powered superhero.

Spider-Man is Peter Parker. There was no Clone Saga.

This. Peter Parker is spiderman, no real grounds for arguments. A few alternate universes and some horribly recieved clone stuff are the only evidence contrary. He's not Green Lantern. There is no Spider corps outside of a joke years ago. There are no thousands of spidermen in space. He's not even like Flash where there was a "first" before Barry or legitimate successors to the title able to keep it.

Spider-Man is Peter Parker. He always has been and any others always revert back to him as planned.

[Sith_Happens]

A few alternate universes

Only a few, you say? (http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20141108050316/marveldatabase/images/0/03/Spider-Verse_009.jpeg)

[Metahuman1]

Miles was a legit successor, and Terry was also a Legit Successor to Bruce (In fact I think a Batman Beyond movie could help with the slump DC's in on there movies.).


And Ironically, DC seems to Disagree and think that Green Lantern and Flash have always been Hal Jorden and Barry Allen and can only be those two.




And that's mostly off topic, but, hey, we know Quesada will never allow a Spiderman other then Parker, hell, I'm sure the writers and editors at Marvel are planning to make Miles the 616 spiderman within a few years time, and Quesada is looking forward to getting his movie version of Peter so that he can tell them "Nope, policy, gotta match the movies for new readers, he can't be married, can't have a daughter, and can't be Miles Morals, deal with it.". Cause it's exactly the sort of person Quesada has proven beyond any reasonable doubt that he is, multiple times.

[leafman]

I'm sure the writers and editors at Marvel are planning to make Miles the 616 spiderman within a few years time
Do you remember the reaction they got to the idea of Superior Spider-Man (and every other time someone else took over)? Most people were only okay with it after it was revealed/confirmed Peter would be back eventually. Miles will never be the 616 Spider-Man for any great length of time. I haven't read the latest issue of the Spider-Verse story, but if Kaine dies I won't be surprised if Miles takes up the Scarlet Spider name.

With Green Lantern and Flash, I think it is less that DC disagrees and more Geoff Johns disagrees since he was the driving force behind bringing Hal and Barry back.

[Metahuman1]

And Geoff Johns is to DC at this point what Quesada is to Marvel.


And, no, actually, I think they'd really gotten to a point were they were gonna let Peter have a happy ending and be phased out and just bring him back in support roles or for All Hands On Deck Crisis, but otherwise, let him be. In no small part to salvage Miles fans as they scrap the Ultimate universe as well as to TRY and make it up to Peters fans things like OMD, OMIT, Sin's Past, Superior, ext. (And yes, they were pissed, but the two times there was any legit intent of retiring him were the Clone Saga and Issue 700 respectively. Both were BAD and thus rejected for that reason. If they did it smartly, like say, the way in which they were smart about getting Carol and Kamila to become the new Captain and Miss Marvel respectively, fans would be ok with it.)


And I think Quesada is gonna F this up. Willfully. Because it's what he exists to do. (God, Monty Oum is gone but this guy is still around. Ugh.)

[BeerMug Paladin]

Thus, I repeat, my sincere hope is that when he DOES inevitably *$#! everything up for Spidey and possibly the MCU in the process, people will finally, vocally, en mass, hold him accountable and make it clear to Disney they want him gone, and will avoid the movie to a level that it will flop, and Disney will blame him (rightfully I might add.) and fire him. And not politely and with many hard feelings to make sure he never ever returns.

I think your scenario is much more likely to kill superhero films for a while in favor of another genre. Whichever genre happened to do very well financially in the year that the superhero genre underperformed. Maybe film noir? Maybe westerns?

Of course, speaking as someone who hasn't really liked any of the MCU movies (that I've seen), I'm not sure how this person could possibly make them worse. It might just happen that audiences will start to notice that these movies are awful.

[Jayngfet]

Only a few, you say? (http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20141108050316/marveldatabase/images/0/03/Spider-Verse_009.jpeg)

Yadda yadda picture for ants.




And Geoff Johns is to DC at this point what Quesada is to Marvel.


No arguments here.


Miles was a legit successor, and Terry was also a Legit Successor to Bruce (In fact I think a Batman Beyond movie could help with the slump DC's in on there movies.).



Miles isn't the 616 Spider-Man and Terry was never the Earth 1/0 Batman. They can appear for events but have never actually headlined the main book.

[Raimun]

Only a few, you say? (http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20141108050316/marveldatabase/images/0/03/Spider-Verse_009.jpeg)

You know, all of the major Marvel characters have multiple versions, reimaginings, clones and who knows what else of themselves in different universes.

This Miles fellow exists strictly in that league.

I've never been a fan of legacy characters... or the whole "Superman, Superwoman, Supergirl, Superboy, Superdog, Superhorse"-thing DC seems to really fancy. I mean, what's the point? If there really is this great idea for an original character, why can't they make it an original character? That is, unless they just want to ride with fame of an all ready existing popular character and try to make some quick bucks.

Strange that none of the characters who don't sell so many comic books never have any mantle bearers.

Or do they all just want to establish that these kind of new characters have no imagination and couldn't come up with a heroic alter ego on their own? :smalltongue:

[Avilan the Grey]

I am still completely uninterested in anything Spider Man movie related since the reboot came so early it was too annoying for me.
I have yet to see the new movies at all, I am simply boycotting them.

Same with the new FF movie. Way too soon for a reboot and if anyone actually is interested in the origin story, yet again, please raise a hand and explain why on earth this is interesting to you.

[HardcoreD&Dgirl]

I've never been a fan of legacy characters... or the whole "Superman, Superwoman, Supergirl, Superboy, Superdog, Superhorse"-thing DC seems to really fancy. I mean, what's the point? If there really is this great idea for an original character, why can't they make it an original character? That is, unless they just want to ride with fame of an all ready existing popular character and try to make some quick bucks.
well I'm tabby nice to meet you... I am very much in love with the idea of legacy characters, but I don't like how they always do it.

Guy Gardner is the Green Lantern of my choice (second by ALan Scott)
Wally West is the Flash I like... and both are 'spin offs'

I can hardly wait to see Matrix super girl next month... I loved her and her relation with Luther.

One of these days I'm going to write my 90's DC fan fic that has Maxima and Eradicator form a team(and fall in love). The Team is Jared Steven's Fate, the Ghost of Jean Paul Valley, Guy Gardner Warrior, and superboy (with xray specs), Booster Gold, Blue Bettle, Fire, Ice, and Damage.

on topic: I would have loved to see miles if they had BOTH a Soney and MCU characters kept separate, but if there is just one spider, it has to be Peter.

In the comics (I hope it is true) I heard a rumor of a retired Peter traning miles... I would love that, but not in the beginning.

[Lizard Lord]

he can't be trusted in the movies with out people standing over the top of him holding his career at metaphorical gun point every second waking or otherwise. And now he's not gonna have that form the sound of it.
I thought you said he would? From what you were saying you believe that if (or when from how I interpret your phrasing) the movies do bad moviegoers, who aren't just you, will know it was his fault and that Disney will have no choice but to fire him. Did I not understand that correctly?

I mean, say what you want about the guy, but I don't think he would have made it this far without knowing when his job is on the line.

[Legato Endless]

I mean, say what you want about the guy, but I don't think he would have made it this far without knowing when his job is on the line.

There are very few times I find that line of reasoning to be true in any way other than happenstance. An entirely too significant number of people can get very far while lacking some context critical awareness. Not saying that's Quesada one way or the other, as I'm relatively uninformed about him as an individual besides his infamous editorial decisions and fairly disturbing views on women, but the length and height he's climbed in a rather oddball industry sadly doesn't mean what one would hope it should.

[Metahuman1]

I thought you said he would? From what you were saying you believe that if (or when from how I interpret your phrasing) the movies do bad moviegoers, who aren't just you, will know it was his fault and that Disney will have no choice but to fire him. Did I not understand that correctly?

No, I'm saying I HOPE this will happen, and he won't be allowed to steal credit from the deserving party's for things that worked, and assign ALL blame to everyone else for everything that doesn't work AGAIN. (He has seriously only ever been held accountable ONCE in his freaking career over a screw up. Once, out of multiple screw ups that should have by rights single handedly ended his career for ever in comics.

To say nothing of the fact that he STILL has not been taken to task over CONSTANTLY trying to steal the credit for rescuing marvel form going under after the speculator bubble burst. (He had nothing to do with it what so ever. All Credit for that goes to Avi Arid.). )


There is no actual assurance that a he will be babysat in the manner he needs to be in order to prevent him form ruining everything. Or that he will be held accountable if he does ruin it. This is one of the reasons I raise such a fuss, I want him babysat, or, barring that, to at least be completely kicked out of the industry after he does flub it up, and all the horrible things he's done to beloved characters to be kicked out of canon simply because of association (Cause at this point that's the only way there gonna fix a lot of them from the look of it.)

[Zmeoaice]

Besides, not having Parker would be like doing a live action Batman-movie where Bruce Wayne is not Batman, ie. it would be automatically wrong. Just like there is only one Batman, there is only one Spider-Man. Accept no substitutes.

I just hope that Spidey has plenty of opportunities to do that banter with the other heroes they had in the first Avengers-movie. I do feel that Parker was missing from all of those moments, since it is right up his alley in the comics.

Actually a Batman movie with Penis Grayson instead of Bruce would fit better than using Miles since Bruce trained Penis by his side and to take his mantle, while Miles and Peter never worked together, he was just another kid who randomly got Spider-Powers.

Also who find it funny D--- is censored but penis isn't?

[Foeofthelance]

I am still completely uninterested in anything Spider Man movie related since the reboot came so early it was too annoying for me.
I have yet to see the new movies at all, I am simply boycotting them.

Same with the new FF movie. Way too soon for a reboot and if anyone actually is interested in the origin story, yet again, please raise a hand and explain why on earth this is interesting to you.

From the trailer, it looks like they're borrowing heavily from the Ultimates line. So, younger team, Doom is more obviously culpable in the accident, there's a much clearer military involvement in the plot, Reed hopefully won't be such a stick like he was in the previous movies and will actually be capable of emotions...

The names might be the same, and some of the science terms will probably get badly recycled, but it doesn't look to be the same story outside of the most general aspects of "Five people get in a science accident, gain powers, and one turns evil." So at this point its going to heavily come down to the actors, script, and trailers.

[Lizard Lord]

No, I'm saying I HOPE this will happen, and he won't be allowed to steal credit from the deserving party's for things that worked, and assign ALL blame to everyone else for everything that doesn't work AGAIN. (He has seriously only ever been held accountable ONCE in his freaking career over a screw up. Once, out of multiple screw ups that should have by rights single handedly ended his career for ever in comics.

To say nothing of the fact that he STILL has not been taken to task over CONSTANTLY trying to steal the credit for rescuing marvel form going under after the speculator bubble burst. (He had nothing to do with it what so ever. All Credit for that goes to Avi Arid.). )


There is no actual assurance that a he will be babysat in the manner he needs to be in order to prevent him form ruining everything. Or that he will be held accountable if he does ruin it. This is one of the reasons I raise such a fuss, I want him babysat, or, barring that, to at least be completely kicked out of the industry after he does flub it up, and all the horrible things he's done to beloved characters to be kicked out of canon simply because of association (Cause at this point that's the only way there gonna fix a lot of them from the look of it.)

Well...if it does do well I can't see how Quesada could get any credit. Even if he somehow managed to do something right I imagine most people wouldn't notice with the movies. After all how often is it that the editor gets more credit for a movie than the director, writer, leads actors, and etc.? It happens in comic books certainly but I honestly don't think I have even heard of any movie editors.

[Metahuman1]

Well, let me see, Batman and Robin was Ruined by WB, but Joel Shumacker get's all the flack for that. Ben Affleck get's all the blame for Daredevil and that's hardly deserved as a lot of other things were wrong with that film that didn't involve him. Same with the live action Green Lantern Movie.




and Quesada's not an Editor anymore. Hasn't been for years. He's the chief creative officer or some such title and his job is "I'm in charge of ALL ADAPTATIONS OF MARVEL COMICS INTO MOVIES AND OTHER MEDIA OUTSIDE OF COMICS." this was the comic book department's way to kicking him out allegedly because he kept wrecking the comic books beyond recognition, and now the company's gonna likely pay hard for kicking him upstairs instead of out on his rump.


I just hope they can recognize that mistake and kick him out on his rump this time. If anyone happens to own stock in Disney, I'd urge you to contact them as a share holder and express concern that Mr. Quesada is being allowed to do a movie reboot for spider-man when the last time he rebooted spider-man it involved destroying the characters of Mary Jane Watson, Gwen Stacy, Peter Parker, doing self insertion fan fiction, and deliberately and blatantly insulting everyone who sees movies, reads novels and comic books, and plays games.




And BTW, Quesada's current job, landing credit for things that go well while ducking credit for them going badly, still not as unbelievable as the fact that after the number of readers he drove off as Editor in Chief he got promoted, Or the fact that even though he was nothing more then a random guy in the art department at the time marvel was saved form bankruptcy, he is STILL able to get credit for that.

[Man on Fire]

As for Sinister Six, there are actually few comics about supervillains and their lives outside of fighting Spider-Man - Deadly Foes of Spider-Man, Lethal Foes of Spider-Man, Superior Foes of Spider-Man, some of them were also in Super Villain Team-Up: MODOK's 11,which was, as you might have guessed, Ocean's 11 with supervillains. And so could be Sinister Six - six supervillains join forces to rob higly secured place. Maybe they'll use some of the less popular baddies, like Boomerang or Shocker.

[Avilan the Grey]

From the trailer, it looks like they're borrowing heavily from the Ultimates line. So, younger team, Doom is more obviously culpable in the accident

Sounds EXACTLY like the first movie?

[HardcoreD&Dgirl]

Sounds EXACTLY like the first movie?

well it shouldn't... the first movie was space exploration, from what it seems this time it will be military teleportation and the use of the negative zone (never seen in movie). The relationships will also differ, sue isn't reeds ex, her and Johnny are the children of the general in charge. Reed and Doom are child prodigy who grew up working for a government think tank, not business rivals.

The whole movie should have more energy as well.

[Lizard Lord]

Well, let me see, Batman and Robin was Ruined by WB, but Joel Shumacker get's all the flack for that. Ben Affleck get's all the blame for Daredevil and that's hardly deserved as a lot of other things were wrong with that film that didn't involve him. Same with the live action Green Lantern Movie.



I never denied that Quesada would be able to avoid blame should he screw things up. Just don't see how he could steal credit.



And either Joel Shumacker let the WB walk all over him (which he should thus get blame for) or he still did somethings wrong himself. Batman and Robin had so many problems that I really can't think of any other explanation. The only thing that movie did right was have Mr. Freeze's back story match that of the cartoon rather than making him just a thief with an ice ray. Which I suppose Shumacker should get credit for. Maybe he shouldn't get all the blame, but at least some.

I do agree about Ben Affleck's Daredevil. It is the same as Halle Berry's catwomen. No actor could have saved those roles.

[Metahuman1]

WB made it very clear that no matter who was directing, they were gonna have this movie, and not one thing would change except who finally got listed as the director.



As for stealing credit, I don't know how this got started, but it's become a popular Myth (With exactly 0 basis in fact.) that Joe Quesada saved Marvel Comics form there Bankruptcy back in the 90's. He had exactly squat to do with saving marvel, but he did still get promoted to Editor in Chief, which was about the time the rumor started flaring up.


The man who did save them and should be getting the credit for saving them is Avi Araid. For a complex series of legal deals and strategic selling of rights and so forth that finally brought in enough new cash flow for them to get out of the red. This eventually lead to the creation of Marvel Studios.


Yet, somehow, some way, Joe Quesada is frequently, regularly credited with this for no viable reason at all. Somehow, he has managed to steal credit for this accomplishment, and use it as leverage to inflict utterly horrible things on Marvels Canon as a result and with impunity, and get 2 promotions to boot.

[Sith_Happens]

and Quesada's not an Editor anymore. Hasn't been for years. He's the chief creative officer or some such title and his job is "I'm in charge of ALL ADAPTATIONS OF MARVEL COMICS INTO MOVIES AND OTHER MEDIA OUTSIDE OF COMICS."

And yet

1. Marvel Studios has yet to majorly screw up anything at all.

2. Ask someone who only knows Marvel from the movies who Joe Quesada is and they'll give you a blank stare.

Therefore, either

1. He's actually doing a good job in his new position but not getting any credit for it.

2. He has little to no real power or influence over anything that happens at Marvel Studios and hasn't managed to steal credit from anyone who does.

[Kyberwulf]

Is there any news on who is going to play Spider-man?

[Sith_Happens]

Is there any news on who is going to play Spider-man?

Nope.

Whether they take a gamble and replace him aside, anyone know of any other actors they think could play a good Parker? I can't think of any at the moment.

[BeerMug Paladin]

Nope.

Whether they take a gamble and replace him aside, anyone know of any other actors they think could play a good Parker? I can't think of any at the moment.

Justin Bieb-

Oh, wait. You were asking for serious suggestions? No idea, really.

[Thrudd]

And yet

1. Marvel Studios has yet to majorly screw up anything at all.

2. Ask someone who only knows Marvel from the movies who Joe Quesada is and they'll give you a blank stare.

Therefore, either

2. He has little to no real power or influence over anything that happens at Marvel Studios and hasn't managed to steal credit from anyone who does.

Pretty much this. He has almost no impact on the movies at all. Kevin Feige is the man in that department.

[Metahuman1]

And yet

1. Marvel Studios has yet to majorly screw up anything at all.

2. Ask someone who only knows Marvel from the movies who Joe Quesada is and they'll give you a blank stare.

Therefore, either

1. He's actually doing a good job in his new position but not getting any credit for it.

2. He has little to no real power or influence over anything that happens at Marvel Studios and hasn't managed to steal credit from anyone who does.

Or, alternatively, Joss Wheadon was put in a more directly in charge position, is a freaking genius, and was thus able to use how successful the Avengers were to keep his scummy hands off things. And now that's gonna go away after Age of Ultron.

[The Glyphstone]

Quesada isn't actually the Devil, you know. He just made Spider-man bargain with the guy.:smallbiggrin:

[Metahuman1]

Among many, many, many, many, many, many other sins as Marvel's editor in chief.

[Avilan the Grey]

well it shouldn't... the first movie was space exploration, from what it seems this time it will be military teleportation and the use of the negative zone

Well, my point was that what I actually quoted was EXACTLY like the first movie, that they took from the Ultimate Universe then, too.
The whole group was in their low to mid 20's instead of Reed being in his late 30's (40's even?) as in the regular comics, etc.

[Foeofthelance]

Well, my point was that what I actually quoted was EXACTLY like the first movie, that they took from the Ultimate Universe then, too.
The whole group was in their low to mid 20's instead of Reed being in his late 30's (40's even?) as in the regular comics, etc.

Not really. The first movie had far more in common with their 616 counterparts than their Ultimate counterparts. The team was still full fledged adults. The origin story still involved an accident, rather than deliberate sabotage. Reed was still portrayed as being emotionally stunted and oblivious to what was going on around him. And I'd have pegged everyone but Johnny as being in their thirties.

The new movie is going explicitly with the Ultimates origin: military test goes wrong. The cast is much younger, going for an obvious late teens/early college feel. There will be whatever rewrite we get for Johnny's character. We're getting more involved with the Negative Zone, which means hopefully having more sets than "the Baxter building" and "Some street in NY". Hopefully the presence of the military from the outset will allow for more character by expanded cast interactions.

Am I granted it an automatic ticket the way I might an MCU film? No. The trailers and such still need to be a bit more convincing. And it still has the potential to be another flop like Amazing Spiderman. But as long as its a genuine reboot, and not just a retreading of the same material and characterizations, I'm willing to judge it on its own standings.

[Talakeal]

Not really. The first movie had far more in common with their 616 counterparts than their Ultimate counterparts. The team was still full fledged adults. The origin story still involved an accident, rather than deliberate sabotage. Reed was still portrayed as being emotionally stunted and oblivious to what was going on around him. And I'd have pegged everyone but Johnny as being in their thirties.


Going by the actor's ages in the original film Reed was in his early 30s, Ben his early 40, and the Storms in their early 20s. Of course, this in Hollywood your average 30 year old is still playing a high school student, so who take that with a grain of salt.

[Foeofthelance]

Going by the actor's ages in the original film Reed was in his early 30s, Ben his early 40, and the Storms in their early 20s. Of course, this in Hollywood your average 30 year old is still playing a high school student, so who take that with a grain of salt.

I was actually basing it more on their positions withing their respective spheres of action. Sue made it sound like college had been a while ago, Victor was successfully running his own company, and Reed had been in the Baxter building long enough to run it into the ground and start racking up bills against it. Figure they probably left college in their early to mid 20s, then meet up again several years later when Reed approaches Victor for use of the space station.

[Kitten Champion]

Am I granted it an automatic ticket the way I might an MCU film? No. The trailers and such still need to be a bit more convincing. And it still has the potential to be another flop like Amazing Spiderman. But as long as its a genuine reboot, and not just a retreading of the same material and characterizations, I'm willing to judge it on its own standings.

I as well.

Much of what I've seen from the internet regarding the reboot seems to be entrenched prejudice against it. Granted there are certain reasons to be skeptical, I'll admit, but the general flow has been way too prematurely negative.

[BeerMug Paladin]

I as well.

Much of what I've seen from the internet regarding the reboot seems to be entrenched prejudice against it. Granted there are certain reasons to be skeptical, I'll admit, but the general flow has been way too prematurely negative.

Consider the audience. From what I know, comic books tend to reboot only every couple decades. And usually comic book fans hate it when it is done. So given that's likely the primary demographic for people discussing a possible live action movie reboot, it makes sense the people discussing it would be down on the idea. Also, there's the well known fandom love of hardline continuity for comics. Reboots are pretty much anathema to that.

It seems to me that few franchises get reboots as frequently as comic book/superhero franchises. Can you imagine the same thing being done for other franchises that are less than 10 years old? Transformers reboot? Avatar Reboot? Rebooting that Star Trek reboot? (Maybe even The Last Airbender reboot?)

Rebooting a franchise from the 80s, like Terminator, Robocop or Nightmare on Elm Street or something even older like Planet of the Apes isn't nearly the same thing. I'm talking something within the same decade as the beginning of the franchise.

Now, superhero movies actually do make a lot of sense to me to reboot fairly frequently. Because if you have new people involved, they may want to do a completely different take on the character and excise things they think would be superfluous to a good story. I just suspect these factors may partly account for the negativity on this topic here and elsewhere.

[Thrudd]

I as well.

Much of what I've seen from the internet regarding the reboot seems to be entrenched prejudice against it. Granted there are certain reasons to be skeptical, I'll admit, but the general flow has been way too prematurely negative.

I just want to see a truer to 616 Victor Von Doom character, ruling Latveria and referring to himself in the third person. The last movies did not have it, and it sounds like the reboot will be even farther from it, that's what has me balking a bit at it. However they want to change the four's origin and relationships doesn't really bother me, I just want the Doom that I know and love. I think he's one of the best villains in all of Marvel, maybe the best.

[TheEmerged]

I just want to see a truer to 616 Victor Von Doom character, ruling Latveria and referring to himself in the third person. The last movies did not have it, and it sounds like the reboot will be even farther from it, that's what has me balking a bit at it. However they want to change the four's origin and relationships doesn't really bother me, I just want the Doom that I know and love. I think he's one of the best villains in all of Marvel, maybe the best.

Bolded for emphasis. The only way I could tolerate the first FF movie was to mentally hear the name "Boom" whenever it came up. I've never gotten around to seeing the 2nd movie, and have little intention of changing that.

[Thrudd]

Bolded for emphasis. The only way I could tolerate the first FF movie was to mentally hear the name "Boom" whenever it came up. I've never gotten around to seeing the 2nd movie, and have little intention of changing that.

I watched it because I like silver surfer, but I was as disappointed as most people were, to say the least.

[Avilan the Grey]

I just want to see a truer to 616 Victor Von Doom character, ruling Latveria and referring to himself in the third person. The last movies did not have it, and it sounds like the reboot will be even farther from it, that's what has me balking a bit at it. However they want to change the four's origin and relationships doesn't really bother me, I just want the Doom that I know and love. I think he's one of the best villains in all of Marvel, maybe the best.

How about actually giving Doom his frickin' ARMOR? He's a Gothic Iron Man for Doom's sake.

[Thrudd]

How about actually giving Doom his frickin' ARMOR? He's a Gothic Iron Man for Doom's sake.

Totally. And have him be the master of technological and occult sciences, both. He is so terrifying because you don't just have to worry about super science, but honest to god MAGIC as well. Who can compare with DOOM?

[BRC]

How about actually giving Doom his frickin' ARMOR? He's a Gothic Iron Man for Doom's sake.

Hrmmm, let's whip up an MCU Origin for Doom that keeps things as true to the Comic as possible, while justifying/changing the goofier aspects that moviegoers may not like.


Lets start with Latveria

Latveria was a small nation that was part of the Soviet Bloc during the Cold War. Little more than a single city and a few towns nestled in the Mountains. However, during the Cold War, Surveyors discovered vast natural resources hidden underneath Latvernia. Leviathan (Soviet super-science spy organization shown in Agent Carter) hushed up the reports and basically took over Latveria. To draw attention away from it, they deliberately withheld modern technology, making it look like just another backwater of no real significance. Leviathan agents built secret factories, laboratories, and bases in the mountains while the peasantry continued to live an agrarian lifestyle with few modern conveniences.
When the Cold War Ended, the local Leviathan commander set himself up as a petty military dictator.

Victor Von Doom
A brilliant young Latverian engineer, Victor Vandem (need to find a region-appropriate name that sounds a bit like "Von Doom") found himself dissatisfied with the way the country was being run. He began organizing a rebellion against the Dictator when he was contacted by SHIELD agents. SHIELD also wanted to bring down the dictator, and offered their support. A Brilliant Engineer, Victor was able to turn the raw materials SHIELD smuggled into the country into weapons.

The Rebellion's first step was to hijack a public broadcast on the Dictator's Birthday. Victor, masked and wearing a simple green hoodie, speaking through a voice distorter, stood in front of a shipping crate. He called upon the people of Latveria to rise up and opened the crate, revealing the weapons within and offering them to those who would join his movement. The Container had the letters DOVOM, or something printed on the side (Make up a shipping company), but Victor was blocking the middle letter in the video, spelling out "DOOM".

People in Latveria flock to the figure that becomes known as "DOOM", and "DOOM IS COMING" graffiti is seen throughout the streets.

However, at this time, the dictator yields to pressure from the west and starts making diplomatic overtures, promising access to Latveria's resources, and offering to let SHIELD build a base on Latverian soil (Latveria being strategically located). In addition, the Dictator reveals that he has been upgrading the old secret Levithan high-tech factories. The Security Council then orders SHIELD to pull back their support of Doom, since the agreements are only good so long as the current government is in power, and they don't trust the rebels to be as open.

At this point, its too late. The Rebellion is moving ahead full steam under the banner of Doom, who captures the old Leviathan factories and uses them to start churning out new weapons (Including Doombots). He personally takes the field to lead the final assault on the castle where the Dictator has been holed up. At this point, while his name is public, he has remained masked for the most part, relying on the legendary figure of Doom, rather than the mere mortal Victor, to inspire his followers. He plans to unmask himself and institute elections after the Dictator is overthrown.

On the eve of the final assault, he receives word from his contacts at SHIELD that they are withdrawing support. He had been counting on SHIELD fighters to counter the gunships the Military had been using. Undeterred, he leads the charge himself, the Rebels win the day, but Victor's face is badly burned when the Military gunships fire incendiaries at the building he was using as his headquarters.

Badly burned and feeling betrayed, Victor's first days as ruler of Latveria are spent in a private hospital room in the Castle. During this time, his SHIELD contacts approach him about the deal the dictator had made with the security council, and ask if he would be willing to consider something similar. He refuses, but isolated in the castle, with a scarred face, and no foreign support, he feels his control over the country crumbling. His trusted lieutenants, believing their leader to be dying, begin scrabbling for control.

Victor Vandem cannot rule Latveria, but DOOM can. The people of Latveria respect strength, so Victor constructs himself a suit of armor and a mask. So that nobody could doubt who he is, he wears a green hood (Like the one he wore in the first broadcast) over the armor. At this time, the two camps of his followers are having a standoff in the city square. Victor, wearing his new armor, enters the square, flanked by his robots. When everybody turns to look at him, he kills the leaders of the two sides without a word. His robots train their weapons on the crowd, as he activates the loudspeakers in his armor.
Those he trusted within Latveria turned to petty bickering at the first opportunity, and cannot be trusted. Those he trusted outside Latveria were willing to sell them out, and cannot be trusted.
When he started his rebellion, he stated that no mere man could command a country to kneel, But Doom is no mere man. Kneel Before Doom, and people do.

With the old Leviathan factories and labs under his control, Doom begins bolstering his military with robots and advanced weapons. In the wake of Stark Industries withdrawing from weapons manufacturing, those weapons become Latveria's prime export. Doom, still trusting almost nobody but himself, rules the country with an iron fist.


So there you have it, a medieval looking country (Because Leviathan intentionally kept it that way so people would think it was worthless) with a masked, green-hooded dictator in power armor, and a bunch of robots (Hidden factories in the mountains, built by Leviathan, upgraded by the dictator, used by DOOM), and a guy who goes around calling himself Doom (Because he is convinced that, while Victor is a mere man, a thing of flesh and a puppet of fate, Doom is something much more powerful. DOOM led the rebellion, and only DOOM may lead).

Admittedly, that backstory is a little complicated for a film, but I think they can compress it.

*Shots of the initial video of the man in the green hoodie, framed by the letters "D" "O" "O" "M"*. Voiceover: "A genius engineer in the small country of Latveria, Victor Vandem was tapped by SHIELD to lead a rebellion against their dictator."
*Shots of robots in the streets, "DOOM IS COMING" Graffiti. "His followers started calling him "DOOM". Since the millitary was known to identify the bodies of dead rebels and go after their families, he had SHIELD help him build autonomous combat drones to do the bulk of the fighting".
*Shot of the Fire* At the last minute, SHIELD withdrew their support. Victor's rebellion was successful, but he was badly burned in the final attack.
*Shakey cellphone-footage of Doom walking into the square and killing people* "Confined to a hospital and with his grip on the country slipping, Victor fully allowed himself to become Doom. He constructed a suit of powered armor, re-activated the drones, and brought ordered to the chaotic country. He has been ruling ever since, calling himself Doom, selling weapons on the black market, and never appearing outside of his armor."

Okay, so this version does not have him go by "Doctor Victor Von Doom", instead his real name is "Doctor Viktor Vandem", but he refuses to be referred to as anything but "Doom".

[Rakaydos]

Hrmmm, let's whip up an MCU Origin for Doom that keeps things as true to the Comic as possible, while justifying/changing the goofier aspects that moviegoers may not like.


Lets start with Latveria

Latveria was a small nation that was part of the Soviet Bloc during the Cold War. Little more than a single city and a few towns nestled in the Mountains. However, during the Cold War, Surveyors discovered vast natural resources hidden underneath Latvernia. Leviathan (Soviet super-science spy organization shown in Agent Carter) hushed up the reports and basically took over Latveria. To draw attention away from it, they deliberately withheld modern technology, making it look like just another backwater of no real significance. Leviathan agents built secret factories, laboratories, and bases in the mountains while the peasantry continued to live an agrarian lifestyle with few modern conveniences.
When the Cold War Ended, the local Leviathan commander set himself up as a petty military dictator.

Victor Von Doom
A brilliant young Latverian engineer, Victor Vandem (need to find a region-appropriate name that sounds a bit like "Von Doom") found himself dissatisfied with the way the country was being run. He began organizing a rebellion against the Dictator when he was contacted by SHIELD agents. SHIELD also wanted to bring down the dictator, and offered their support. A Brilliant Engineer, Victor was able to turn the raw materials SHIELD smuggled into the country into weapons.

The Rebellion's first step was to hijack a public broadcast on the Dictator's Birthday. Victor, masked and wearing a simple green hoodie, speaking through a voice distorter, stood in front of a shipping crate. He called upon the people of Latveria to rise up and opened the crate, revealing the weapons within and offering them to those who would join his movement. The Container had the letters DOVOM, or something printed on the side (Make up a shipping company), but Victor was blocking the middle letter in the video, spelling out "DOOM".

People in Latveria flock to the figure that becomes known as "DOOM", and "DOOM IS COMING" graffiti is seen throughout the streets.

However, at this time, the dictator yields to pressure from the west and starts making diplomatic overtures, promising access to Latveria's resources, and offering to let SHIELD build a base on Latverian soil (Latveria being strategically located). In addition, the Dictator reveals that he has been upgrading the old secret Levithan high-tech factories. The Security Council then orders SHIELD to pull back their support of Doom, since the agreements are only good so long as the current government is in power, and they don't trust the rebels to be as open.

At this point, its too late. The Rebellion is moving ahead full steam under the banner of Doom, who captures the old Leviathan factories and uses them to start churning out new weapons (Including Doombots). He personally takes the field to lead the final assault on the castle where the Dictator has been holed up. At this point, while his name is public, he has remained masked for the most part, relying on the legendary figure of Doom, rather than the mere mortal Victor, to inspire his followers. He plans to unmask himself and institute elections after the Dictator is overthrown.

On the eve of the final assault, he receives word from his contacts at SHIELD that they are withdrawing support. He had been counting on SHIELD fighters to counter the gunships the Military had been using. Undeterred, he leads the charge himself, the Rebels win the day, but Victor's face is badly burned when the Military gunships fire incendiaries at the building he was using as his headquarters.

Badly burned and feeling betrayed, Victor's first days as ruler of Latveria are spent in a private hospital room in the Castle. During this time, his SHIELD contacts approach him about the deal the dictator had made with the security council, and ask if he would be willing to consider something similar. He refuses, but isolated in the castle, with a scarred face, and no foreign support, he feels his control over the country crumbling. His trusted lieutenants, believing their leader to be dying, begin scrabbling for control.

Victor Vandem cannot rule Latveria, but DOOM can. The people of Latveria respect strength, so Victor constructs himself a suit of armor and a mask. So that nobody could doubt who he is, he wears a green hood (Like the one he wore in the first broadcast) over the armor. At this time, the two camps of his followers are having a standoff in the city square. Victor, wearing his new armor, enters the square, flanked by his robots. When everybody turns to look at him, he kills the leaders of the two sides without a word. His robots train their weapons on the crowd, as he activates the loudspeakers in his armor.
Those he trusted within Latveria turned to petty bickering at the first opportunity, and cannot be trusted. Those he trusted outside Latveria were willing to sell them out, and cannot be trusted.
When he started his rebellion, he stated that no mere man could command a country to kneel, But Doom is no mere man. Kneel Before Doom, and people do.

With the old Leviathan factories and labs under his control, Doom begins bolstering his military with robots and advanced weapons. In the wake of Stark Industries withdrawing from weapons manufacturing, those weapons become Latveria's prime export. Doom, still trusting almost nobody but himself, rules the country with an iron fist.


So there you have it, a medieval looking country (Because Leviathan intentionally kept it that way so people would think it was worthless) with a masked, green-hooded dictator in power armor, and a bunch of robots (Hidden factories in the mountains, built by Leviathan, upgraded by the dictator, used by DOOM), and a guy who goes around calling himself Doom (Because he is convinced that, while Victor is a mere man, a thing of flesh and a puppet of fate, Doom is something much more powerful. DOOM led the rebellion, and only DOOM may lead).

Admittedly, that backstory is a little complicated for a film, but I think they can compress it.

*Shots of the initial video of the man in the green hoodie, framed by the letters "D" "O" "O" "M"*. Voiceover: "A genius engineer in the small country of Latveria, Victor Vandem was tapped by SHIELD to lead a rebellion against their dictator."
*Shots of robots in the streets, "DOOM IS COMING" Graffiti. "His followers started calling him "DOOM". Since the millitary was known to identify the bodies of dead rebels and go after their families, he had SHIELD help him build autonomous combat drones to do the bulk of the fighting".
*Shot of the Fire* At the last minute, SHIELD withdrew their support. Victor's rebellion was successful, but he was badly burned in the final attack.
*Shakey cellphone-footage of Doom walking into the square and killing people* "Confined to a hospital and with his grip on the country slipping, Victor fully allowed himself to become Doom. He constructed a suit of powered armor, re-activated the drones, and brought ordered to the chaotic country. He has been ruling ever since, calling himself Doom, selling weapons on the black market, and never appearing outside of his armor."

Okay, so this version does not have him go by "Doctor Victor Von Doom", instead his real name is "Doctor Viktor Vandem", but he refuses to be referred to as anything but "Doom".

Nice. Could be set up as a standalone origin-story movie, if we're willing to leave the Four out of it. "Doom, Victor Von"
For more links to MCU, perhaps he got the Arc reactor tech from the soviet bad guy in Iron Man 2?

[Thrudd]

Nice. Could be set up as a standalone origin-story movie, if we're willing to leave the Four out of it. "Doom, Victor Von"
For more links to MCU, perhaps he got the Arc reactor tech from the soviet bad guy in Iron Man 2?

DOOM would never need to steal some playboy war profiteer's feeble technology, built out of his very feebleness! DOOM will create a superior power source with his masterful knowledge of all things and perfect his armor with his own unconquerable intellect.

Maybe with a tiny bit of help from his four year old super genius god-daughter. Because she's cute and plucky.

[Rakaydos]

DOOM would never need to steal some playboy war profiteer's feeble technology, built out of his very feebleness! DOOM will create a superior power source with his masterful knowledge of all things and perfect his armor with his own unconquerable intellect.

Maybe with a tiny bit of help from his four year old super genius god-daughter. Because she's cute and plucky.

Actually, it might be fun to have a mirror of Ironman 1.

"Stark built one in a cave with blacksmithing tools!"
"But Victor! You're not Stark!"
*backhand the minion* "I AM DOOM!"

[The Glyphstone]

I can actually see the trailer running in my head now:


Scene: TV news station reporting on '"Revolution in Latveria", background images of riots and soldiers fighting rag-tag rebels.

Scene: Brief flash of a man seen from behind or to the side, in silhouette backlit by a forge, swinging a hammer down. Sound effect of metal striking metal, 'CLANG."

Voiceover, man filtered to sound mechanical: "They cut my people away from the world and turned them into slaves."

Scene: More news footage, of a green-cloaked and hooded man giving a speech. Banner text on screen reads 'Charismatic rebel leader speaks'.

Scene: Silhouette in the forge again, another hammer blow. CLANG.

Voiceover: "Forced us to build their weapons, then tested them on our bodies."

Scene: Armed rebels smashing down a big gate and swarming over the guards lined up behind it.

Scene: Silhouette in the forge, another hammer blow. CLANG.

Voiceover: "No more. Never again. No man can rule a country and expect it to kneel forever."

Scene: A rebel mob breaking into a huge, palace-like mansion with the green-cloaked and hooded figure at their head. Helicopters swoop in and fire missiles into the crowd, huge explosions of fire sweeping everywhere.

Scene: Man backlit by the forge, hammer blow. CLANG.

Scene: Man waking up in hospital bed, entire face wrapped in bandages except for his eyes. A charred green cloak with hood hangs on a rack nearby.

Voiceover: "No man can be trusted to keep chaos in check."

Scene: Man in the forge, holding up a piece of hot metal with tongs. The light from the forge shows the angular shape of a mask with Doom's rectangular eye slits. CLANG.

Scene: Hospital bathroom, the man from earlier is standing in front of a mirror. He starts unwrapping the bandages as the camera pans down to his feet, bandages piling up. He screams in horror.

Voiceover: "But chaos must be kept in check. The world must kneel lest evil stand again."

Scene: Man, backlit by the forge, takes the hot metal mask and presses it to his face. Nasty sizzling sound.

Scene: The green-cloaked figure is back, now dressed in armor but with the hood obscuring his face, accompanied by dozens of identical figures.

Voiceover: "The world cannot kneel before a man. But the world will kneel before Doom."

Scene: The main figure looks up, showing the eyes of the man in the hospital now looking through the eye-slits of the mask from the forge, synchronized with the voiceover 'Doom'.

Screen goes black. Big letter D appears, made of metal and lined with rivets, to the same CLANG sound effect. Big letter O appears, CLANG. Big letter O appears, CLANG. Big letter M appears. CLANG. Screen now says DOOM in metal capital letters. One more CLANG accompanies DR. at the top, because the Doom movie is a thing already.

Screen goes blank. 2022 appears all at once in rivet-lined metal numbers to a CLANG.

[Lionheart]

I can actually see the trailer running in my head now:



I got goosebumps.

[Avilan the Grey]

Doom has always been closer to an evil version of Tony Stark than Reed Richards.

[HandofShadows]

I can actually see the trailer running in my head now:


That was darn excellent work. :smallcool:

[Thrudd]

I can actually see the trailer running in my head now:


Scene: TV news station reporting on '"Revolution in Latveria", background images of riots and soldiers fighting rag-tag rebels.

Scene: Brief flash of a man seen from behind or to the side, in silhouette backlit by a forge, swinging a hammer down. Sound effect of metal striking metal, 'CLANG."

Voiceover, man filtered to sound mechanical: "They cut my people away from the world and turned them into slaves."

Scene: More news footage, of a green-cloaked and hooded man giving a speech. Banner text on screen reads 'Charismatic rebel leader speaks'.

Scene: Silhouette in the forge again, another hammer blow. CLANG.

Voiceover: "Forced us to build their weapons, then tested them on our bodies."

Scene: Armed rebels smashing down a big gate and swarming over the guards lined up behind it.

Scene: Silhouette in the forge, another hammer blow. CLANG.

Voiceover: "No more. Never again. No man can rule a country and expect it to kneel forever."

Scene: A rebel mob breaking into a huge, palace-like mansion with the green-cloaked and hooded figure at their head. Helicopters swoop in and fire missiles into the crowd, huge explosions of fire sweeping everywhere.

Scene: Man backlit by the forge, hammer blow. CLANG.

Scene: Man waking up in hospital bed, entire face wrapped in bandages except for his eyes. A charred green cloak with hood hangs on a rack nearby.

Voiceover: "No man can be trusted to keep chaos in check."

Scene: Man in the forge, holding up a piece of hot metal with tongs. The light from the forge shows the angular shape of a mask with Doom's rectangular eye slits. CLANG.

Scene: Hospital bathroom, the man from earlier is standing in front of a mirror. He starts unwrapping the bandages as the camera pans down to his feet, bandages piling up. He screams in horror.

Voiceover: "But chaos must be kept in check. The world must kneel lest evil stand again."

Scene: Man, backlit by the forge, takes the hot metal mask and presses it to his face. Nasty sizzling sound.

Scene: The green-cloaked figure is back, now dressed in armor but with the hood obscuring his face, accompanied by dozens of identical figures.

Voiceover: "The world cannot kneel before a man. But the world will kneel before Doom."

Scene: The main figure looks up, showing the eyes of the man in the hospital now looking through the eye-slits of the mask from the forge, synchronized with the voiceover 'Doom'.

Screen goes black. Big letter D appears, made of metal and lined with rivets, to the same CLANG sound effect. Big letter O appears, CLANG. Big letter O appears, CLANG. Big letter M appears. CLANG. Screen now says DOOM in metal capital letters.

Screen goes blank. 2022 appears all at once in rivet-lined metal numbers to a CLANG.


Oh, that is incredible. Do it. You are hereby charged to go to Hollywood and make them see the light that us DOOM.

[Man on Fire]

Victor Vandem (need to find a region-appropriate name that sounds a bit like "Von Doom")

Warning, with similiar reasoning Doom in ultimate ended up named Victor... Van Dame :smallamused:

[CarpeGuitarrem]

Warning, with similiar reasoning Doom in ultimate ended up named Victor... Van Dame :smallamused:
Hmm, Victor Van Damme would have a nice ring to it...

[BRC]

Warning, with similiar reasoning Doom in ultimate ended up named Victor... Van Dame :smallamused:

Really, his real name does not have to have anything to do with "Doom". His first name should be "Victor" and "Doom" is the name he goes by.
He could be "Viktor Domov" or "Viktor Smith" for all it matters.

I do like the idea of the name "Doom" coming from him blocking out a letter on a sign behind him in the initial video though, and it being assigned to him from that. Otherwise, I have trouble with the idea of an eastern-european rebel leader choosing an english word (And one like "Doom" of all things) for his name.

[Tiki Snakes]

Really, his real name does not have to have anything to do with "Doom". His first name should be "Victor" and "Doom" is the name he goes by.
He could be "Viktor Domov" or something.

I do like the idea of the name "Doom" coming from him blocking out a letter on a sign behind him in the initial video though, and it being assigned to him from that. Otherwise, I have trouble with the idea of an eastern-european rebel leader choosing an english word (And one like "Doom" of all things) for his name.

I dunno. Personally, I'd feel very let down by this. Doom is not a subtle character. Doom is not a small figure, to be underplayed with subtlety. I think he's a lot more fun if his name is quite literally Doom. Why else would he be so proud of it, shouting it loudly at the drop of a hat? And isn't the whole point of the character that he spent some significant proportion of his life living in America anyway? Hence being able to have a run-in with and seething hatred of Reed Richards?

It's not like it's that ridiculous a name. I mean, all it requires is for there to have been a place in Latveria called Doom, or some suitably close spelling. It's not like there aren't already people with almost that surname (http://www.theverge.com/2015/1/11/7529111/doom-of-los-alamos).

About four or five days later, Mother got a call that said, "Come pick up the body." And he was gone, and four years later Mother remarried, and his name was Doom. Spelled "D-o-o-m." His ancestors were Dutch, and it was originally Dume. And they didn't think that was Americanized enough so they changed it to Doom.
And there is a place called Dume.
Dume is a former civil parish in the municipality of Braga, Portugal.

All that would be required to get Viktor Von Doom is for his ancestors from Portugal to have become Latverian Nobility (via conquest, naturally), and at some point spend enough time in the states to feel the need to Americanise their names.

[BRC]

I dunno. Personally, I'd feel very let down by this. Doom is not a subtle character. Doom is not a small figure, to be underplayed with subtlety. I think he's a lot more fun if his name is quite literally Doom. Why else would he be so proud of it, shouting it loudly at the drop of a hat? And isn't the whole point of the character that he spent some significant proportion of his life living in America anyway? Hence being able to have a run-in with and seething hatred of Reed Richards?


I agree, he needs to be stomping around yelling "KNEEL BEFORE DOOM!"

But I don't think he needs to/should start there.

[Rakaydos]

If you're setting up an origin movie,you defintely want to play up that Victor was not the megolomaniac Doom became. That, like Loki, he was a sympathetic character driven by the situation he found himself to moral exremisim.

Though, looking back, Ironman 2 definately had shades of Doombots. To put Victom Von Doom in the MCU without acknowleging Ironman 2, Ironman 3, and Age of Ultron's pre-existing technical achievements, would take away from the point of the cinimatic universe.

[BRC]

If you're setting up an origin movie,you defintely want to play up that Victor was not the megolomaniac Doom became. That, like Loki, he was a sympathetic character driven by the situation he found himself to moral exremisim.

Though, looking back, Ironman 2 definately had shades of Doombots. To put Victom Von Doom in the MCU without acknowleging Ironman 2, Ironman 3, and Age of Ultron's pre-existing technical achievements, would take away from the point of the cinimatic universe.

I wanted to avoid specifically tying Doom to the events of any previous movie largely so it can take place at any point in the recent past.

If we say that Doom's revolution happened after Ironman2, then Doom has only been ruling Latveria for a handful of years, which may or may not work.

[Rakaydos]

I wanted to avoid specifically tying Doom to the events of any previous movie largely so it can take place at any point in the recent past.

If we say that Doom's revolution happened after Ironman2, then Doom has only been ruling Latveria for a handful of years, which may or may not work.

That depends. If Doom is to become the next big bad after Thanatos, he's going to need a delayed start. Likewise, if marvel doesnt get the rights to FF soon, the plausability of him being there "all along" becomes an issue.

Best case, I feel, is to have the maguffin from doctor Strange be seem taking into a lab complex builing labled "Baxter" to set up the "research accident", and have Victor meet T'challa once at a diplomatic function in Black Panther.

[Sith_Happens]

Screen goes blank. 2022 appears all at once in rivet-lined metal numbers to a CLANG.

You are an evil person.:smalltongue:

[The Glyphstone]

You are an evil person.:smalltongue:

Hey, blame Marvel and their 5-year plan preventing me from having it come out sooner.

Anyone work in Hollywood and have juicy blackmail materialinfluence with a director/screenwriter at Marvel Studios?

[Psyren]

How about actually giving Doom his frickin' ARMOR? He's a Gothic Iron Man for Doom's sake.

That's the thing though - you can't really do Doom justice in the CU until you get the audience used to robots (easy), magic (medium), combined (difficult.)

It's why the first movie fell so flat - I mean, what really were his powers in that one? No doombots, no magic...

Iron Man has accomplished the first - we need Strange to accomplish the second. Then we can whip out Doom, say, "Hey MCU audience, this guy mastered both!" and they'll go, "yep, that's a badass/worthy foe." Instead of making him like a Magneto knockoff.

[lord_khaine]

I keep being surprised hearing people think the first movie fell flat, and it kinda amazes me since that movie were awesome.

[LadyEowyn]

I agree; I liked Amazing Spider-Man best of any of the Spider-Man movies. It didn't have the overwhelming cheesiness of the previous films, and having Peter tell Gwen about his powers, and Gwen be a hero in her own right, was far, far superior to the MJ-as-damsel plots throughout the Raimi Spider-movies. The action was excellent, Garfield was a good Spider-Man and had serious character development over the course of the dil, and Dr. Connors was a very sympathetic villain. Also, I really liked the scene with the cranes - along with the heroism of Gwen and of Captain Stacey, it created a theme that everyone - not just superpowered people - has some level of power and the responsibility to use that power well. Which I think is a far better message than the one usually derived from Spider-Man stories ("superpowered people have a special obligation to be heroes...everyone else, just keep doing what you're doing").

ASM2 sabotaged the first movie by undoing a lot of Peter's character development, making him inconsiderate and ungrateful towards his aunt, and killing off Gwen Stacey, who was one of the best parts of the movies. If it had just left out the Green Goblin entirely, left Gwen alive, and skipped the plotline about Peter's parents, focusing on Electro and to a lesser degree on Peter and Gwen's relationship (and Peter realizing that ultimately, if Gwen's willing to endanger herself by being with him and by helping fight bad guys, that's her call, not his or her father's), it could have been a good movie.

[Logic]

ASM and ASM 2 just have far too many credibility stretching scenes/moments for me.


Gwen Stacy is still in High School, yet works at a major tech company in her spare time .
Peter showing up late to graduation due to Spider-Man issues is kinda a hallmark of his character, but then he acts like "the coolest dude in school" walking up to collect his diploma.
Far too many characters involved in the plot conveniently work for Oscorp, or have worked for Oscorp in the past.
Magic blood is the key to everything (Orci and Kurtzman need to be told that they are forbidden from using that trope ever again.)

I think the biggest problem with the two ASM movies is that the writers simply don't understand Peter Parker. They get Spider-Man, but Peter is different from Spider-Man in at least one key factor: confidence. When wearing the mask, ol' Web-head is a confident, snarky, sarcastic ass that loves to push people's buttons. When it's just Pete, he is timid wallflower afraid of upsetting the status quo unless it's going to get someone hurt. None of that "Peter" persona comes across in the two recent films; he's just Spider-Man the entire time, even before he gets bit.

[TheEmerged]

I think the biggest problem with the two ASM movies is that the writers simply don't understand Peter Parker. They get Spider-Man, but Peter is different from Spider-Man in at least one key factor: confidence. When wearing the mask, ol' Web-head is a confident, snarky, sarcastic ass that loves to push people's buttons. When it's just Pete, he is timid wallflower afraid of upsetting the status quo unless it's going to get someone hurt. None of that "Peter" persona comes across in the two recent films; he's just Spider-Man the entire time, even before he gets bit.

Note this is an early example of the Audience + Anonymity = Jerk theory :smallbiggrin:

[Reverent-One]

I think the biggest problem with the two ASM movies is that the writers simply don't understand Peter Parker. They get Spider-Man, but Peter is different from Spider-Man in at least one key factor: confidence. When wearing the mask, ol' Web-head is a confident, snarky, sarcastic ass that loves to push people's buttons. When it's just Pete, he is timid wallflower afraid of upsetting the status quo unless it's going to get someone hurt. None of that "Peter" persona comes across in the two recent films; he's just Spider-Man the entire time, even before he gets bit.

Really? I haven't seen the second, but they nailed that pretty well in the first one. He was usually incredibly awkward in social situations as "Peter", like so (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zR_iybLi310).

[BRC]

I agree; I liked Amazing Spider-Man best of any of the Spider-Man movies. It didn't have the overwhelming cheesiness of the previous films, and having Peter tell Gwen about his powers, and Gwen be a hero in her own right, was far, far superior to the MJ-as-damsel plots throughout the Raimi Spider-movies. The action was excellent, Garfield was a good Spider-Man and had serious character development over the course of the dil, and Dr. Connors was a very sympathetic villain. Also, I really liked the scene with the cranes - along with the heroism of Gwen and of Captain Stacey, it created a theme that everyone - not just superpowered people - has some level of power and the responsibility to use that power well. Which I think is a far better message than the one usually derived from Spider-Man stories ("superpowered people have a special obligation to be heroes...everyone else, just keep doing what you're doing").

ASM2 sabotaged the first movie by undoing a lot of Peter's character development, making him inconsiderate and ungrateful towards his aunt, and killing off Gwen Stacey, who was one of the best parts of the movies. If it had just left out the Green Goblin entirely, left Gwen alive, and skipped the plotline about Peter's parents, focusing on Electro and to a lesser degree on Peter and Gwen's relationship (and Peter realizing that ultimately, if Gwen's willing to endanger herself by being with him and by helping fight bad guys, that's her call, not his or her father's), it could have been a good movie.

I remember reading/hearing somewhere about the "Gwen Stacy Paradox"
Which is to say that Gwen Stacy has enough name recognition to be used in adaptations, and has enough going for her as a character to be done very well ( I don't actually know very much about her). Meanwhile, Fridging female love interests is becoming increasingly frowned upon.

That said, what Gwen Stacy is known for is being the Spider-Man girlfriend who died (Specifically falling off a bridge and being killed by spidey's lack of knowledge concerning sharp stops at high speed). So, anytime you use Gwen Stacy, the expectation is that she will get thrown from a bridge and die. Everybody expects Gwen's story to end on that bridge.

So, you're left with the paradox. Kill off Gwen Stacy, and lose an interesting character/fall into a tired trope, or don't kill her, and in doing so remove the one thing people know about her from the comics.

[Psyren]

I keep being surprised hearing people think the first movie fell flat, and it kinda amazes me since that movie were awesome.


I agree; I liked Amazing Spider-Man best of any of the Spider-Man movies.

Not sure if y'all were responding to me, but I was actually talking about the 1st Fantastic Four movie (which should have been obvious since I was talking about Dr. Doom.)

But having said that- yes, I did find ASM1 to be pretty terrible. Connors' CGI Lizard was an ugly mess, like someone used the goomba from the Mario Bros movie as a starting point. You establish that Pete can dodge bullets at point blank range but a giant lizard continually gets the drop on him. Connors gases several SWAT commandos into assault-rifle wielding lizard minions that the movie simply forgets about until it's time to cure them. That saccharine/cheesy moment with lining up the cranes.

The saving grace of the movie was the chemistry between Stone and Garfield - and we knew she was going to die of course (she's no redhead after all), but once they did that they pretty much killed Garfield as the webslinger too. And lo it was so.



So, you're left with the paradox. Kill off Gwen Stacy, and lose an interesting character/fall into a tired trope, or don't kill her, and in doing so remove the one thing people know about her from the comics.

Or... kill her and have her come back. If Jason Todd and Bucky can come back I don't see why she can't. She could even get powers (didn't she at least once?)

[CarpeGuitarrem]

ASM and ASM 2 just have far too many credibility stretching scenes/moments for me.


Gwen Stacy is still in High School, yet works at a major tech company in her spare time .
Far too many characters involved in the plot conveniently work for Oscorp, or have worked for Oscorp in the past.


I think these actually make sense, given the source material. High school prodigies are not a rare occurrence in the Spideyverse, especially Ultimate Spiderman. After all, Pete's one. And Oscorp is definitely supposed to be the big company that has its fingers in everything. It's shady like that.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Not sure if y'all were responding to me, but I was actually talking about the 1st Fantastic Four movie (which should have been obvious since I was talking about Dr. Doom.)

But having said that- yes, I did find ASM1 to be pretty terrible. Connors' CGI Lizard was an ugly mess, like someone used the goomba from the Mario Bros movie as a starting point. You establish that Pete can dodge bullets at point blank range but a giant lizard continually gets the drop on him. Connors gases several SWAT commandos into assault-rifle wielding lizard minions that the movie simply forgets about until it's time to cure them. That saccharine/cheesy moment with lining up the cranes.

The saving grace of the movie was the chemistry between Stone and Garfield - and we knew she was going to die of course (she's no redhead after all), but once they did that they pretty much killed Garfield as the webslinger too. And lo it was so.



Or... kill her and have her come back. If Jason Todd and Bucky can come back I don't see why she can't. She could even get powers (didn't she at least once?)

There is a joke that everyone in comics returns, everyone except Peter Parker's loved ones, and to a degree it is truth, Gwen has for the most part stay dead, except in alternate realities like house of M. Gwen does currently has spider powers in the Spider-verse line, but she isn't 616 Gwen and in that Universe, peter is the lizard, not Connors oh and he died soon after too (because we can't have a Spider-noun without tragedy)

[Metahuman1]

They were gonna bring Gwen Back.



At the end of one more day. It was in the original version JMS wrote. Quesada then ran that through a shredder, rewrote it, refused to let JMS take his name off it, and instead hooked Spiderman up with his daughter he'd inserted into the last issue, and had Spiderman: Sins Past mandated to tell the fans about how Gwen was horrible because she slept with Norman Osborn and had his babys with out peter knowing right before he killed her.


And people wonder why I have the unbridled hatred I do for Quesada.

[The Glyphstone]

They were gonna bring Gwen Back.



At the end of one more day. It was in the original version JMS wrote. Quesada then ran that through a shredder, rewrote it, refused to let JMS take his name off it, and instead hooked Spiderman up with his daughter he'd inserted into the last issue, and had Spiderman: Sins Past mandated to tell the fans about how Gwen was horrible because she slept with Norman Osborn and had his babys with out peter knowing right before he killed her.


And people wonder why I have the unbridled hatred I do for Quesada.

More like by this point I think we're wondering how you manage to type his name without suffering an aneurysm.

[Metahuman1]

I've had 8 years to cool off. You should have scene me when the book was first on shelves.

[Rakaydos]

That's the thing though - you can't really do Doom justice in the CU until you get the audience used to robots (easy), magic (medium), combined (difficult.)

It's why the first movie fell so flat - I mean, what really were his powers in that one? No doombots, no magic...

Iron Man has accomplished the first - we need Strange to accomplish the second. Then we can whip out Doom, say, "Hey MCU audience, this guy mastered both!" and they'll go, "yep, that's a badass/worthy foe." Instead of making him like a Magneto knockoff.

He's Ironman + Strange + Black panther? :3

[GloatingSwine]

He's Ironman + Strange + Black panther? :3

Basically, yeah.

Also as devious as a sack of weasels.

[Ravian]

Basically, yeah.

Also as devious as a sack of weasels.

But as boisterous as a peacock.

Which is why it's criminal that we still haven't seen a Doctor Doom on the big screen loudly shouting "Doooommm!!"

[Psyren]

Also eeeeeeeeevil.


Back on topic: MovieBob does a victory lap (http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/moviesandtv/columns/moviebob/12983-Spider-Man-Belongs-In-The-Marvel-Cinematic-Universe), complete with amusing song lyrics.

But beyond that, there are some interesting predictions in the article - what Sony's "solo creative control" could really mean, and the possibility of Pete's origin being used to spice up a completely different movie (like Ant-Man.)

[GloatingSwine]

But as boisterous as a peacock.

Which is why it's criminal that we still haven't seen a Doctor Doom on the big screen loudly shouting "Doooommm!!"

And/or throwing his fists to the sky and shouting "Curse you Reed Richards!!!!!"

[Psyren]

You guys sound like you're writing the script for Doom: Turn Off The Dark :smalltongue:

[Rakaydos]

And/or throwing his fists to the sky and shouting "Curse you Reed Richards!!!!!"

You now what might be cool? If Victor is INTENTIONALLY hamming it up as Doom, and maintains Victor as a secret identity. So Doom has his technological origin story before Victor participates in the origin story of the Fantastic 4.

The more I think about it, the more I realize that the fantastic four fit better as supernatural heros (like Strange) than technological ones. As incarnations of the four classical elements (with doom taking Aether, the 5th) caused by an "accident" with a maguffin from Stephen Strange.

[Metahuman1]

The more I think about it, the more I realize hypothetical Doom is owning Confirmed spiderman in his own home thread.

[Avilan the Grey]

The thing about the new Marvel movies are that they are very skilled at distilling 10-20-60 years of character. Even when "reinventing" they USE the old stuff. Also, casting. Tony Stark IS Tony Stark. Thor IS Thor. Cap IS Cap. Etc.

Part of this, I feel, is that it is indeed Marvel themselves that call the shots. If they allow a reimagination, they are going to ensure it STILL hold true to the original character, at least enough that the fans go "OH that's a cool way of doing it" and not "WTH did they DO?"

[GloatingSwine]

Soon, all threads will belong to DOOM!

[Thrudd]

Soon, all threads will belong to DOOM!

I think it would be hilarious if people started randomly spamming threads with posts like "On your knees, simpletons! This thread now belongs to DOOM!" And then post a spoilered movie synopsis.

Of course, this would only work if every mod was first converted to the service of DOOM.

[Lizard Lord]

I think it would be hilarious if people started randomly spamming threads with posts like "On your knees, simpletons! This thread now belongs to DOOM!" And then post a spoilered movie synopsis.

Of course, this would only work if every mod was first converted to the service of DOOM.

So what you are saying is that it may already be in the works.

[The Glyphstone]

I think it would be hilarious if people started randomly spamming threads with posts like "On your knees, simpletons! This thread now belongs to DOOM!" And then post a spoilered movie synopsis.

Of course, this would only work if every mod was first converted to the service of DOOM.

All the mods are secretly Doombots.

[BRC]

All the mods are secretly Doombots.

I would expect nothing less here at DOOM in the Playground, home of such fine webcomics as Order of the DOOM!

[Kyberwulf]

I think of the two, Toby McGuire and Andrew Garfield, Toby McGuire got it down closer. It's not so much that Peter Parker is a nerd, because that aspect of his character has drastically changed since his initial conception. When Peter Parker was created, being a nerd and wanted to be a good guy was kind of seen as weird. What makes Peter Parker such an outcast, was he was always creating Faux pax. Toby McGuire's Peter was closer to that. Need I remind you all of the Dance scene. Toby McGuire's Peter was an outcast. Andrew Garfield's Peter was too cool. He was awkward in some situations. Such as when he asked Gwen Stacy out, but he was still confidant. He was pretty much in control of himself. If you watch that scene with no sound on, it comes off as awkward. At the same time, his body language is pretty dang confidant. Andrew Garfield's Peter was an outcast by choice.

I think Andrew Garfield's Spiderman would fit in pretty well in the MCU. Also, his Peter Parker might be better in the MCU. Especially if they are going for a more mature Spiderman. One who has gotten out of his High School daze, and is more secure in who he is and what his life has been about. Which I think is what they are going for, since they aren't doing an origin story. Most of what Andrew Garfield had to work against, was the contrived backstory of Oscorp and his parents.

On the subject of Gwen Stacy. I don't see why you would want to change her story. If you want a female character that kicks butt and lives, Make a different character. Gwen's role is a Huge moment in comic and most importantly Peter's life. It shows Heroes are fallible. It also shows why it is vital to keep his Vigilantism and his normal life so separate. Also to me, it illustrates perfectly why I both Love and Hate Peter Parker. I love it because, of all the Marvel heroes, We experienced most of the traumatic events in his life alongside him. It isn't some backstory that is drawn from a story. We saw it happen to him. I hate it because his life is so crappy. Everything good in his life always gets taken away from him. I honestly don't know how he can keep going on the way he does. Truth be told. Spiderman is the reason I stopped reading comics. (Although, come to think about it. As crappy as his life gets. He still is one of the coolest Superpowered people. So many abilities no drawbacks.)

[Metahuman1]

Well, I can already tell you Marvels evidently making noise about wanting a Peter Parker who's in high school. (I'm quite certain Quesada's already gotten to work.)


Though I do agree that while Garfield was far better then I thought he was gonna be, Toby was just flat the better Peter Parker.

[Psyren]

The thing about the new Marvel movies are that they are very skilled at distilling 10-20-60 years of character. Even when "reinventing" they USE the old stuff. Also, casting. Tony Stark IS Tony Stark. Thor IS Thor. Cap IS Cap. Etc.

Part of this, I feel, is that it is indeed Marvel themselves that call the shots. If they allow a reimagination, they are going to ensure it STILL hold true to the original character, at least enough that the fans go "OH that's a cool way of doing it" and not "WTH did they DO?"

This. The changes, where they happen, generally make a lot of sense. I was really happy they had Thor ditch all the secret identity silliness.



Though I do agree that while Garfield was far better then I thought he was gonna be, Toby was just flat the better Peter Parker.

Strong second. Garfield's skate-punk-Pete just felt completely flat to me as far as "yeah, that kids totally a social outcast."

His chemistry with Gwen was really the only thing I didn't find serious problems with in those films.

[Aotrs Commander]

I think Garfield was unquestionably a better Spider-Man than McGuire. McGuire's Spidey was too... mopey, with not nearly enough wisecracks.

If I have to pick one or the other to be better done... I'll pick the one the title is about, personally. (Note: I have only seen ASM2 and the older trilogy, if that makes any bearing. And the reason I didn't see the first one was I was monumentally uninterested in seeing anoter Spidey-origin story, so there's that to consider.)

[Psyren]

Garfield, when he had room to stretch, was the better Spidey. But McGuire was the better Parker. They're not the same thing.

[Tiki Snakes]

Garfield, when he had room to stretch, was the better Spidey. But McGuire was the better Parker. They're not the same thing.

Whilst I agree with your general point, I don't agree with your conclusion. Compared to other superhero movies at the time, the McGuire spiderman movies were pretty good, (at least the first two were). But he was always pretty insipid and wet as Peter. Whilst this isn't an invalid take on Peter, I certainly could do without his particular brand of dewy eyed blubbering. And the less said about three, the better.

[Androgeus]

Garfield, when he had room to stretch, was the better Spidey. But McGuire was the better Parker. They're not the same thing.

Could we some how cast both of them?

[Kitten Champion]

I always thought the unpopular nerdy Peter was something of a relic from the origin comic.

I don't think the geek/jock stereotypical adversarial relationship is really all that relevant anymore to people of my generation. Being a science major and wearing glasses is really not the social stigma it apparently was way, way, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay back then. Bringing it up now would just be contrived.

The Ultimate Spider-Man comic and Spectacular Spider-Man cartoon I think re-framed Peter Parker as socially marginalized as his family circumstances and general apathy towards the "cool crowd" left him little time or interest in becoming popular.

Besides, even if you begin with Peter as "revenge of the geek gone wrong", that was a really narrow time frame in his life relatively speaking. As the crossover with Invincible pointed out -- college-age and older Spider-Man has got a lean and athletic body, is generally portrayed as intelligent, is usually dating - or married to - absurdly attractive and talented women, has a good sense of humour, and enough confidence in himself to dress up in a flamboyant costume and routinely save the lives of the people of New York in daring and heroics fashion. Still treating him like self-deprecating nervous social misfit would be odd, I think.

So, I didn't have a problem with Garfield's version. Most of my problems with the Amazing Spider-Man series are the lazily written scripts which rely on contrivance and worn-to-the-ground cliches when it could be so much more.

[Sith_Happens]

Though I do agree that while Garfield was far better then I thought he was gonna be, Toby was just flat the better Peter Parker.

Really? I can't even remember what Peter was supposed to be like as a character in the trilogy, McGuire's performance was that bland.:smallconfused:

[Man on Fire]

It appears we have chances of getting Miles instead of Peter:
http://hellyeahteensuperheroes.tumblr.com/post/111964551373/new-spider-man-will-reportedly-not-be-white

[Sith_Happens]

It appears we have chances of getting Miles instead of Peter:
http://hellyeahteensuperheroes.tumblr.com/post/111964551373/new-spider-man-will-reportedly-not-be-white

So says someone who is neither in any way affiliated with Marvel nor claiming to have heard it from someone who is.

[Rakaydos]

Well when you get down to it, muslim-spiderman is really just modernizing "nerd loner" spiderman since nerds are now popular.

[Kyberwulf]

So, then.. It's probably going to be Jaden Smith that plays him.

[Seerow]

So, then.. It's probably going to be Jaden Smith that plays him.

After the bomb that was After Earth, I don't see him getting a new leading role anytime soon.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

So says someone who is neither in any way affiliated with Marvel nor claiming to have heard it from someone who is.
That was my response as well.

The headline: "95% chance new Spiderman won't be white"

The article: "Hollywood reporter says that he thinks the new Spiderman won't be white, 'There's like, a 95% chance of it.' "

It's not even a rumor, it's just speculation.

[Metahuman1]

Honestly, the best possible thing they could do? Tell Quesada that the movie is gonna open with Peter Parker (Andrew Garfield OR Toby McGuire if you can get them.) getting killed in a final heroic battle that saves the city.

And then follow Miles Morals.


This would help with there desire to diversify more, AND it would get Quesada to back off with a bit of luck cause now it's not the toy he wants to play with.

[BeerMug Paladin]

This would help with there desire to diversify more, AND it would get Quesada to back off with a bit of luck cause now it's not the toy he wants to play with.

Are you sure it wouldn't just end up with the new Spiderman making a deal with Mephisto to save Peter Parker's life in exchange for wiping himself out of existence?

[Metahuman1]

... ... ...


QUESADAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! *Directed angrily at the sky.*.


Though, that might actually anger enough people that Disney really would fire him for real and remove all his BS form Canon.

[JoshL]

Donald Glover is not saying a word. (http://comicbook.com/2015/02/24/donald-glover-cant-confirm-or-deny-hes-the-next-spider-man/)

Obviously doesn't mean a thing, other than people are talking. And no indication of Peter or Miles, but for the record, I'd be happy to see Glover as either.

[t209]

http://www.cracked.com/article_21954_4-hidden-side-effects-spider-man-joining-avengers.html
Well, at least we could see Captain America shaming the anti-mutant crowd in the future. or a Captain America fan hopping on to a car and ripped off to reveal his Captain America shirt in front of "Cyclops was Right" crowd.
And we could see non-One More Day version of Spiderman since MJ's (and lil' heroine) the only family he had left.
:smallannoyed:Anybody pissed that they brought up Bendis's Guardians of the Galaxy (now they're teaming up with 1960's X-Men but I think they could bring the aliens' heads as souvenirs to stop Mutant discrimination*).
*Well, one of X-Men cartoon had anti-Mutants using superhumans, which confused me even without the Avengers. Until I realize that they are using wifebeaters and jingoists (insult terms for respective heroes intended).

[Zmeoaice]

Honestly, the best possible thing they could do? Tell Quesada that the movie is gonna open with Peter Parker (Andrew Garfield OR Toby McGuire if you can get them.) getting killed in a final heroic battle that saves the city.

And then follow Miles Morals.

Boo, Peter >>>>>>>> Miles. Miles isn't even in 616.

[t209]

Boo, Peter >>>>>>>> Miles. Miles isn't even in 616.
Not until the Secret Wars.

[Lizard Lord]

In regards to Toby vs. Andrew I personally see it as a tie.

Toby McGuire was the better Peter Parker. Andrew Garfield was the better Spider-Man. So obviously the MCU spider-man will be played by a genetic construct created from the DNA of the two of them to create the perfect Spider-Man actor.:smallsmile:

[The Glyphstone]

In regards to Toby vs. Andrew I personally see it as a tie.

Toby McGuire was the better Peter Parker. Andrew Garfield was the better Spider-Man. So obviously the MCU spider-man will be played by a genetic construct created from the DNA of the two of them to create the perfect Spider-Man actor.:smallsmile:

But what if the hybrid inherits the Spider-Man skills of McGuire and the Peter skills of Garfield?

[Cheesegear]

On the subject of Gwen Stacy. I don't see why you would want to change her story. If you want a female character that kicks butt and lives, Make a different character.

Everyone loves Black Cat. Even girls.

[t209]

So on subject of Spider-Man, what do you think about Ultimate Spiderman (aka Spiderman and Ultimate Friends and later Spiderverse for kids)?
On one hand, the show would be more fitting for Deadpool (which he appeared) rather than Spiderman.
On the other, it introduced Black Helmet Nova (Sam Alexander) into comic universe. Strangely enough, I kinda like the costume better than Richard Rider (I haven't read the book but the series version is a jerk).
At least other Spiderman in Spiderverse chewed out the show.
edit: Yes, I do also want to talk about bringing Nova (the black helmet) back in Guardians of the Galaxy.

[Zaydos]

It's the only spider-man show since the mid nineties I can watch without thinking that it's just a worse version of the one from the mid-nineties because it goes far enough into comedy, the team aspect, and the crossovers to feel different, managing to remind me almost of Batman the Brave and the Bold since neither take themselves seriously and both are "We have popular character, lets cross him over with everyone!"

I don't read Nova comics, but I don't like Sam in the show. And I think I have the first issue of Richard Rider's run somewhere from childhood.

[t209]

It's the only spider-man show since the mid nineties I can watch without thinking that it's just a worse version of the one from the mid-nineties because it goes far enough into comedy, the team aspect, and the crossovers to feel different, managing to remind me almost of Batman the Brave and the Bold since neither take themselves seriously and both are "We have popular character, lets cross him over with everyone!"

I don't read Nova comics, but I don't like Sam in the show. And I think I have the first issue of Richard Rider's run somewhere from childhood.
I'm pretty sure that the comic version of Sam is much better than the show, at least when Gerry Dugan took over.
Then again, both of them were written by Joseph Loeb who didn't seem to get over his son's death.

[Lentrax]

Could we some how cast both of them?

Well, if the rumors are correct and we get a standalone MCU Spiderman movie, I personally would enjoy seeing a movie where the webheads from several different universes have to join together to stop (insert villain here) from destroying one universe, thereby creating a chain reaction that destroys the multiverse. In this theoretical movie, we have Tobey, Garfield, someone playing Miles, as well as a couple of different actors to play various versions of the Webhead, and heck, let's throw Emma Stone in there since we now have a canon "Gwen Stacy is Spider Woman." And then we kill off a bunch of them until the movie ends with the only onscreen spidey left is the one that will be proceeding forward in the MCU.

[SpeedWitch]

Well, if the rumors are correct and we get a standalone MCU Spiderman movie, I personally would enjoy seeing a movie where the webheads from several different universes have to join together to stop (insert villain here) from destroying one universe, thereby creating a chain reaction that destroys the multiverse. In this theoretical movie, we have Tobey, Garfield, someone playing Miles, as well as a couple of different actors to play various versions of the Webhead, and heck, let's throw Emma Stone in there since we now have a canon "Gwen Stacy is Spider Woman." And then we kill off a bunch of them until the movie ends with the only onscreen spidey left is the one that will be proceeding forward in the MCU.

I had a similar epiphany, and then I took it further—what if, during a moment of rest for our heroes, we had all the Spider-men (and Peter Quill) in a dance contest? Huh? Huh?!?!

Seriously though, I don't see this happening in a normal Spiderman movie, but I can see it happening in Doctor Strange, or better yet, let's have Avengers Infinity War do something similar for every superhero, even if it's just a small moment. Can you imagine Steve Rodgers and Johnny Storm meeting each other? I can. It's glorious.

[Metahuman1]

So on subject of Spider-Man, what do you think about Ultimate Spiderman (aka Spiderman and Ultimate Friends and later Spiderverse for kids)?
On one hand, the show would be more fitting for Deadpool (which he appeared) rather than Spiderman.
On the other, it introduced Black Helmet Nova (Sam Alexander) into comic universe. Strangely enough, I kinda like the costume better than Richard Rider (I haven't read the book but the series version is a jerk).
At least other Spiderman in Spiderverse chewed out the show.
edit: Yes, I do also want to talk about bringing Nova (the black helmet) back in Guardians of the Galaxy.

It's a vastly inferior series to spectacular Spiderman. Just like how Avenger's Assemble and Hulk an the Agent's of S.M.A.S.H. are vastly inferior series to Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Hero's and Wolverine And the X-men.

[t209]

I wonder if we will have a anthology or a miniseries based on Marvels.
- Chronicles of Heroes since 1930s.
- Average Joe's lives in Marvel Universe.
- Captain America punching an anti-mutant activist after he assaulted Scarlet Witch (pre-House of M, obviously).

[Sith_Happens]

Average Joe's lives in Marvel Universe.

Agents of SHIELD is sorta-kinda this if you squint a little.

[Cheesegear]

Average Joe's lives in Marvel Universe.

Superior Foes of Spider-Man, maybe? I like that book. I like it a lot.
Bob, Agent of HYDRA. Decidedly average guy just trying to make it in a world where super-villains are a real thing.

I'm sure there are other examples, but those two are pretty good examples.

[Kitten Champion]

Marvels would have been an interesting route to take from a world-building perspective, but the MCU didn't really have an Age of Superheroes to follow Captain America. It's much more akin to the Ultimate Universe where the presumption is that while the world has always been full of weird and inexplicable things -- the major events that pushed the world into the weird fictional comic directions begin around 2008.

[t209]

http://fc06.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2014/001/7/d/x_mare_by_csimadmax-d70fj7q.png
So I think this image might introduce the new comers to comic Cyclops (now Magneto 2.0), especially those who watched X-Men: Evolution. Heck, I didn't even realize Scarlet Witch was a good guy* until this year (I was even weird by seeing her and her brother in Avengers).
*I know about the shenanigans from babies and I hated it.

[Rogar Demonblud]

So I went to re-watch Ant-Man to take the aftertaste on Fantastic 4 out of my mouth. And I noticed something With that Chinese Whispers thing at the end.

The reporter tells Falcon "We have people who Jump, who swing, who crawl on walls."

First Spiderman reference!

[Lizard Lord]

So I went to re-watch Ant-Man to take the aftertaste on Fantastic 4 out of my mouth. And I noticed something With that Chinese Whispers thing at the end.

The reporter tells Falcon "We have people who Jump, who swing, who crawl on walls."

First Spiderman reference!

Which one? :smalltongue:

Unless Spider-Man is the only person they actually have.

[t209]

Which one? :smalltongue:

Unless Spider-Man is the only person they actually have.
Let's see
- Spider Woman
- White Tiger (both the first Puerto Rican dude, his niece, and his sister); he or she can't stick to wall but Parkour might do.

[Kitten Champion]

So I went to re-watch Ant-Man to take the aftertaste on Fantastic 4 out of my mouth. And I noticed something With that Chinese Whispers thing at the end.

The reporter tells Falcon "We have people who Jump, who swing, who crawl on walls."

First Spiderman reference!

I was wondering about the phrasing, that sounds like they were being intentionally vague or maybe in-universe people have some kind of misunderstanding as to who he is.

According to Bleeding Cool it's “We have a guy who can jump, who can swing, who can crawl up walls.” Which shows they aren't pussyfooting around it so much.

More importantly, this means we are indeed not getting yet another origin story for him. They'll probably touch upon it somehow - a flashback, some dialogue to explain the specifics, an opening montage of some sort, whatever - but Spider-Man's already out there in some form.

[t209]

Unfortunately, the situation is a bit grim since the writers are not that good (aka worked on Holiday, which is kinda bad).
So I kinda have 3 ideas for bringing Miles Morales, first one from MC2 idea in Antman and Phantom's lineage of people who took the mantle.
- Miles Morales but make him descendant of Peter Parker who was active in 60's but people forgot about him after his "retirement" (maybe act as symbolism of decline of his status as a mascot). To explain his Puerto Rican heritage, maybe make Mayday as half-Puerto Rican but mixed marriages (not to mention having to make Mary Jane as red-haired Latina) were kind of taboo back in possible 1960's and maybe 70's.
- Kill off Peter Parker in Civil War to make way for Miles.
- Miles as Peter's apprentice/sidekick/padawan.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Peter has been confirmed to be a teenager during Civil War and his own movie, there is no way they are going to kill him so soon just to introduce Miles into the MCU so soon, heck I doubt we will see him pre Infinity War if at all. Actually if the trend continues and the MCU movies continue to kill the box office I can definitely see the stinger for Infinity War Part 2 being similar to the AoU one, but with more legacy characters, including Miles. Sort of a teaser for the MCU Mark II.