Zombies vs Cows

[Forum Explorer]

I put up a sorta joke in another thread where I said a zombie compares unfavorably to a cow in combat. Saying that I'd honestly be more scared to fight a cow with a baseball then a zombie. But then I thought about it and realized that, yeah I think a cow would be harder and more dangerous to fight.

Then I logically extended that to a horde of cows is more dangerous then a horde of zombies. And hilariously scary to boot!

So now I ask you all, which would cause more damage to a city of humans?

The Inexplicable Horde of Zombies?
They can move at the average running speed of a human. Anyone they bite dies and turns into a zombie within a week. Anyone they kill immediately turns into a zombie. They outnumber the humans 100 to 1. No super strength (but the usual ignores human limiters), no super durability (but no organs that are vulnerable). Have some weird 'living sense' to know where humans are to attack. No intelligence, very clumsy


The Cow Uprising?
They are cows. They are as strong as cows, smart as cows, fast as cows, and durable as cows. The only difference is that they have some weird 'human sense' to know where humans are to attack, and they are in a berserk rage, seeking down and attacking humans even if it means their destruction. They also outnumber the humans 100 to 1. The cows can use tactics, but only on the level that a cow could realistically use. They can also recognize danger that a cow could reasonably recognize.

[Cheesegear]

While I have nothing to contribute to the topic itself, this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VIvndWcMuAM) needs to be dropped here and everyone should look at it.

[Eldan]

I have no experience with zombies, but cows are ****ing scary. I've seen raging, angry cows and it's not a pretty sight. They kill quite a lot of people, too.

[SiuiS]

Yeah, I think that best case scenario, zombies and cows are equal. Worst case scenario, cows end man, and then the zombies man leaves behind, and then themselves their fury reaching no peak, their blood thirst never slaked.

Or I would say that, except cows can be foiled by stairs and sturdy platforms. Really, I think however you wanna view them – terrible threat or easy target – they're about equal. Cows are just a realistic and thus grokkable threat.

[Eldan]

But, you know. You say "as smart as a cow". That still seems to be smarter than the average zombie in media. "As fast as a cow". Pretty good chances against a human on shorter distances, certainly faster than most zombies. And durable... yeah, quite.

Also, yes, cows are foiled by platforms. Zombies are foiled by simple walls. Both are foiled by guns quite easily. Still, I'd say cows do better than zombies.

[Kitten Champion]

Thing is, I think the major part of spreading a zombie plague is the initial reticence to killing something that was human. Mass liquidations of diseased cows is something we do relatively often, however.

Cows are also subject to greater scrutiny with regards to medical surveillance, whereas people are free to avoid biomedicine even to the unreasonable degree of not having their children vaccinated due to baseless paranoia regardless of the ramifications. So culling the cow uprising in its most initial stages is going to be a much more reliable solution.

Furthermore, while cows have a greater population density - at least in North America - there aren't many cows situated in urban areas for obvious reasons. It would be realistically simpler to perform a mass extermination campaign, since they'd be there out in the open.

Lastly, cows in this scenario can't reproduce sufficiently replace their numbers.

[Talakeal]

Its funny, I had a discussion with my brother a few months back about how practical it would be to keep cattle after the zombie apocalypse. If the cows are immune to the zombie virus (or whatever), would they be able to defend themselves from a horde of zombies? How many zombies do you think it would require to take down a bull?

My brother seemed to think that a single zombie (or at most a small group) would be all that would be required to take out a bull as they bull would likely be unable to figure out how to destroy the brain and the zombie would just keep coming and biting until the bull bled out. I wasn't entirely convinced.

[Forum Explorer]

Thing is, I think the major part of spreading a zombie plague is the initial reticence to killing something that was human. Mass liquidations of diseased cows is something we do relatively often, however.

Cows are also subject to greater scrutiny with regards to medical surveillance, whereas people are free to avoid biomedicine even to the unreasonable degree of not having their children vaccinated due to baseless paranoia regardless of the ramifications. So culling the cow uprising in its most initial stages is going to be a much more reliable solution.

Furthermore, while cows have a greater population density - at least in North America - there aren't many cows situated in urban areas for obvious reasons. It would be realistically simpler to perform a mass extermination campaign, since they'd be there out in the open.

Lastly, cows in this scenario can't reproduce sufficiently replace their numbers.

Eh, people kill other actual people on a frequent enough basis that I doubt something straight out of the Uncanny Valley would cause any problems. (Not that cows would either though)


For the rest of the cow stuff though? Not really important to the scenario. You can choose the location, but for every human there, you get 100 berserk cows. (Same thing for the zombies) I'm not really looking at a realistic cow uprising, just the cows physical ability to wreak carnage in comparison to zombies.


I did think of putting in a rule that those bit by cows would transform into cows after a day or so, but decided that was too silly, even for this thread. :smalltongue:

[Coidzor]

Its funny, I had a discussion with my brother a few months back about how practical it would be to keep cattle after the zombie apocalypse. If the cows are immune to the zombie virus (or whatever), would they be able to defend themselves from a horde of zombies? How many zombies do you think it would require to take down a bull?

Depends on how much of a horde of zombies encounters a herd of cows, I suppose. If humans managed to engineer a situation where there was, say, a stampede of cattle against the horde of zombies, the horde of zombies would suffer total destruction in the AoE of the stampede.

I'd say it'd take more than a half dozen zombies and they'd have to be in fairly decent condition as far as zombies go, bulls are fairly good at shaking humans off of them, and zombies are going to be less skilled and coordinated than rodeo clowns.


My brother seemed to think that a single zombie (or at most a small group) would be all that would be required to take out a bull as they bull would likely be unable to figure out how to destroy the brain and the zombie would just keep coming and biting until the bull bled out. I wasn't entirely convinced.

That's... an underestimation of what a cow is or an overestimation of zombie capabilities. :smallconfused: Zombies are already going to have a problematic time maintaining their ability to do anything more than scratch exposed human skin. Cowhide is much tougher than human skin, and getting the zombie's face stomped in by a cow is going to absolutely wreck it and its ability to cause harm to anything with its head, even if it doesn't manage to hit the brain.

[Blackhawk748]

That's... an underestimation of what a cow is or an overestimation of zombie capabilities. :smallconfused: Zombies are already going to have a problematic time maintaining their ability to do anything more than scratch exposed human skin. Cowhide is much tougher than human skin, and getting the zombie's face stomped in by a cow is going to absolutely wreck it and its ability to cause harm to anything with its head, even if it doesn't manage to hit the brain.

This, one bull will kick the crap out of a handful of Zombies. As a guy who has worked on farms bulls are scary, and they are much faster than zombies. Im pretty sure the zombies might get one bite and then after that the bull is just gonna keep attacking.

[Chen]

As someone said, cowhide is pretty damn thick. I don't know if a human (or zombie in this case) could actually draw blood via biting a cow. If not they're pretty screwed.

[GenericMook]

I did think of putting in a rule that those bit by cows would transform into cows after a day or so, but decided that was too silly, even for this thread. :smalltongue:

I have very little to contribute to this thread, but this would make an absolutely horrifying Apocowlypse.

[DigoDragon]

I doubt there will be a cow-apocalypse, but I do agree that in a straight fight of a civilian human with a bat versus one, it's tough to take one down. Your best bet is find stairs down and head there. Cows can't descend stairs in any reasonable way that doesn't usually lead to them tumbling and breaking their legs/neck (Based on experience at my Godfather's farm).

However, it would make for a pretty funny movie. Apocowlypse, hee hee. :smalltongue:

[thompur]

I think it would take a horde of zombies to take down a cow. Think of episode one of The Walking Dead, when a mass of walkers took down Rick's horse. That was in a city, where zombies tend to be crowded together. In a rural setting, where cows are generally found, there wouldn't be enough of a concentration of zombies to take down the cow.

[leafman]

Cows are way more dangerous than zombies. The thing is that a cow is pretty tough to kill compared to a human. Humans are fairly fragile and a zombie is even more so. Granted a zombie doesn't need to worry about organ trauma, but a zombie won't try to dodge or protect itself, making it more susceptible to injury. Being human based, a bat or headbutt from a cow, if not lethal, can disable the zombie through broken limbs. On the other hand hitting a cow with a bat is probably just going to make it angry, trying to bite and scratch it will also just make it angry.
This does bring up a new way to fight zombies though, a stampede of cattle going through narrow city streets mowing down a hoard of zombies too stupid to get out of the way.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

This is the best thread ever, and we need the SyFy movie ASAP.

[Metahuman1]

Cow 1: *Directed at Cow 2.* "Arn't you worried about this Mad Cow Disease outbreak?"

Cow 2: *Directed at Cow 1.* "Why should I be worried about Mad Cow Disease? I'm an Airplane."

[Tiki Snakes]

Berserker cows with the ability to unerringly sense the living? Crikey.
I don't think we stand a meaningful chance against that, short of a really, really heavily armed city or full blown military intervention. The Zombies are just no comparison.

[Legato Endless]

So now I ask you all, which would cause more damage to a city of humans?
[/SPOILER]

Pretty much any reasonably large and active animal is more dangerous than a zombie. Zombies are just tireless hominids without weapons or intelligence...the two things that actually make people dangerous. Zombie doomsday scenarios always have to give the hoard a number of other benefits to counter this.



My brother seemed to think that a single zombie (or at most a small group) would be all that would be required to take out a bull as they bull would likely be unable to figure out how to destroy the brain and the zombie would just keep coming and biting until the bull bled out. I wasn't entirely convinced.

It's irrelevant. If a Bull gets pissed enough, it doesn't matter if it's brain intact when it's body has been trampled denying it any locomotion. The need for a head shot is always overhyped. A sufficient caliber of weapon will just blow the torso apart. Who cares if the head is still conscious if it can't move?

[The Glyphstone]

Pretty much any reasonably large and active animal is more dangerous than a zombie. Zombies are just tireless hominids without weapons or intelligence...the two things that actually make people dangerous. Zombie doomsday scenarios always have to give the hoard a number of other benefits to counter this.



It's irrelevant. If a Bull gets pissed enough, it doesn't matter if it's brain intact when it's body has been trampled denying it any locomotion. The need for a head shot is always overhyped. A sufficient caliber of weapon will just blow the torso apart. Who cares if the head is still conscious if it can't move?

"I'll bite your legs off!"

[Blackhawk748]

"I'll bite your legs off!"

Ive been in enough Zombie RPGs where this is actually annoying, thus why i wore leather greaves. And yes i was wearing tanned cowhide and i was virtually bite proof, so ya cows have the advantage, however a broken leg screws them up more than it does us.

Next time im in a Zombie RPG im gonna train a bull and ride it into battle

[Starbuck_II]

Yeah, I think that best case scenario, zombies and cows are equal. Worst case scenario, cows end man, and then the zombies man leaves behind, and then themselves their fury reaching no peak, their blood thirst never slaked.

Or I would say that, except cows can be foiled by stairs and sturdy platforms. Really, I think however you wanna view them – terrible threat or easy target – they're about equal. Cows are just a realistic and thus grokkable threat.

Most zombies can't climb stuff in representations (movies, stories, etc).
Stairs are something zombies can climb though bad at it, better than cows.

Zombie cows? They are better than both.

[Traab]

If you want REAL terror, read Gil's All Fright Diner. They have ZOMBIE COWS! (Also the story is amusing as heck, all his work is.)

[BannedInSchool]

Cape Buffalo kill lions. Poor little kitties. :smallfrown:

Edit: There are also those Nazi cows that are really ornery. (Not a joke.)

[Coidzor]

So now I ask you all, which would cause more damage to a city of humans?

Part of the problem is that it's really hard to fathom. Delhi has a population of 25 million people. You stick 100 times that in berserker zombies or berserker cows, and you have 2.5 billion hostiles. It's very difficult for human minds to work on that kind of a scale, which is part of why fantasy and sci-fi have so many problems with unrealistic numbers for distances, populations, and army sizes. The world population of humans is about 7 billion and is reputed to be able to fit in an area the size of Rhode Island and was even when it was just 6 billion. ~2.5 billion out of ~7 billion is ~35.7%

Rhode Island is about 1,212 square miles or 3,140 km², according to Google. ~35.7% of that is ~1120 km² or ~433 square miles. And that's for zombies which are human sized. Cows are, what, about twice the size of a person? 4 times?

NYC? ~8.4 million people so that's ~840 million zombies or cows.

[TheEmerged]

Having been on the wrong end of an angry bull in my lifetime* - but thankfully closer to a heavy fence than the bull - my money's on the cows.

So in my younger days, I was at a relative's farm joking around with a cousin and making cows noises at the cows. This greatly upset a bull that we didn't see - until we heard it call out and start bearing down on us. Ever hear that joke about how "I don't have to outrun the bear, I just have to outrun you"? My cousin is much faster than I :smalleek: I was able to make it across the fencing safely but I don't think I stopped running until I was behind stone masonry...

[F.H. Zebedee]

Found a relevant link for this debate; assuming an outbreak of cow rebellion/zombie virus, cows actually have an equal (or even greater) biomass than what we've got to bring to the table:
http://xkcd.com/1338/
So by sheer weight, Cows are the more dangerous.

[Giggling Ghast]

Well, I did read a story once that had zombie cows, and one of the protagonists - a werewolf - was in a lot more danger from them than the run-of-the-mill humanoid zombies.

[Traab]

Well, I did read a story once that had zombie cows, and one of the protagonists - a werewolf - was in a lot more danger from them than the run-of-the-mill humanoid zombies.

Thats Gils All Fright Diner.

[Knaight]

Bull fighting is relevant here. The way it generally works is that a bull is stabbed repeatedly with spears from far away, and then that injured bull is pitted against someone with a sword and a cape - the cape is a really effective technique for getting them charging where you're not, the sword is an effective weapon. The person in question is still in a lot of danger though, because even a severely injured bull that you can effectively distract is a big, tough, dangerous animal.

The zombie comparison would be more along the lines of an unarmed human stabbed several times and bleeding copiously, up against someone with a sword. Somehow I don't think they present much of a threat.

[Avilan the Grey]

Also, misreading the title...
Zombies vs CROWS... The crows win.

Well, basically, this (http://www.cracked.com/article_18683_7-scientific-reasons-zombie-outbreak-would-fail-quickly.html) is in effect.

[Solaris]

I look at it this way: It's feasible for me to kill a human barehanded (even by a method that'll do in a zombie). There's no way in God's green Earth I'm killing a cow barehanded. It simply won't happen, even if the cow just sits there and lets me.

Apocowlypse wins for danger factor. Hands down. They'll stomp a rug outta any zombies you care to bring in.

[Bhu]

http://www.viralnova.com/animals-that-kill-humans/ scroll down to 17 and 9

[SiuiS]

Cows are way more dangerous than zombies. The thing is that a cow is pretty tough to kill compared to a human. Humans are fairly fragile and a zombie is even more so. Granted a zombie doesn't need to worry about organ trauma, but a zombie won't try to dodge or protect itself, making it more susceptible to injury. Being human based, a bat or headbutt from a cow, if not lethal, can disable the zombie through broken limbs. On the other hand hitting a cow with a bat is probably just going to make it angry, trying to bite and scratch it will also just make it angry.
This does bring up a new way to fight zombies though, a stampede of cattle going through narrow city streets mowing down a hoard of zombies too stupid to get out of the way.

This is the exact opposite of what I thought was true. Humans are insanely resilient and remarkably recoverable. Break a cow's leg, it's dead. Break a himan's leg, it will hop.

[Coidzor]

This is the exact opposite of what I thought was true. Humans are insanely resilient and remarkably recoverable. Break a cow's leg, it's dead. Break a himan's leg, it will hop.

It's generally significantly more difficult for a human's brute strength to break a cow's leg, however. :smalltongue: Typically if we want to do that we have to use some of our cunning or even more cunning than strength.

[Knaight]

This is the exact opposite of what I thought was true. Humans are insanely resilient and remarkably recoverable. Break a cow's leg, it's dead. Break a himan's leg, it will hop.

Humans are insanely resilient and remarkably recoverable for their size - though that has more to do with being less affected by injuries than not getting them in the first place. Cows just mass about ten times as much, have way thicker hides, so on and so forth. Picture yourself fighting a 10-20 pound creature with no claws, flat teeth, etc - and you have a knife. That's roughly the equivalent of what cows are up against with an unarmed human.

[Rodin]

This thread is bringing flashbacks to the They Hunger mod for Half-Life. It had zombie chickens, zombie dogs, but far and away the most terrifying were the zombie cows. Regular zombies? Umbrella will do nicely. Zombie chickens? Good handgun so you can shoot them before they fly at your face. Zombie cows? Grenades, C4, RPG, Satchel charges....

[Avilan the Grey]

Has everyone missed all the Battle At Kruger vids?
Normal cows act just like that.
if a herd of normal docile milk or meat stock cows think you are going for a calf? You better jump a fence or be trampled scewed and mauled to death.

[BannedInSchool]

if a herd of normal docile milk or meat stock cows think you are going for a calf? You better jump a fence or be trampled scewed and mauled to death.
Herbivores don't want to eat you; they want to kill you and stomp your corpse into the ground to make sure you're dead. :smallsmile:

[Radar]

Herbivores don't want to eat you; they want to kill you and stomp your corpse into the ground to make sure you're dead. :smallsmile:
Hippos kill more people then any other african animal AFAIK (aside from the disease-spreading insects). Nuff said.

[Forum Explorer]

I think I'm going to start asking people what their 'cow survival plan' is, whenever zombies come up. :smallbiggrin:

[Radar]

I think I'm going to start asking people what their 'cow survival plan' is, whenever zombies come up. :smallbiggrin:
Not exactly my answer, but I agree with the bearded guy form El Goonish Shive (http://www.egscomics.com/egsnp.php?id=264) (his name is Tensaided by the way).

[Avilan the Grey]

I think I'm going to start asking people what their 'cow survival plan' is, whenever zombies come up. :smallbiggrin:

"I'm loving it!"

[The Glyphstone]

So this came up on another forum, and a member there who is from Poland suggested something even worse - an uprising by feral pigs/boars. Take all the dangers of angry killer cows, add the intelligence of a pig, the innate ferocity of a wild pig, and a pair of spears attached to their heads.

[Eldan]

If zombie boars happen, then yeah, we're doomed.

[BannedInSchool]

Pigs do lead cows in the homicide count, I believe. AFAIK, "farmer killed and eaten by pigs" is not an...erm...rural myth. Although the story as I've heard it goes that the domestic pig that just bites your finger off gives you a tasty pork dinner that night, as the near universal response is to shoot that pig immediately. Hot, tasty revenge. :smallsmile: And feral hogs are an actual concern in the States even, with escaped domestic pigs rapidly going wild.

[Scarlet Knight]

Is the intelligence of a pig enough to offset the size bonus of a cow? A single lion will eat a pig, he won't mess with a bull.

[The Glyphstone]

Is the intelligence of a pig enough to offset the size bonus of a cow? A single lion will eat a pig, he won't mess with a bull.

Wild boar start at the low end of 200 lbs in Western Europe or North Africa, and can get upward of 600 or 700 pounds in parts of Eastern Europe and Asia; a 'small' Jersey cow will be over 1,000 pounds. So they are considerably smaller, but I'd take into account both the intelligence and the ferocity. A bull is big and aggressive, but defensively so, they are still herbivores. Pigs are extremely omnivorous scavengers, and they're not too picky about whether their meat is dead yet or not, and can also be very aggressive. That lion will probably go after the 200-lb pig, but the 600-lb Eurasian boar is probably bigger than he is. That smaller weight can also be advantageous in shifting directions against a moving target, compared the inertia a thousand or two thousand pounds of angry bull will build up, so they're also more threatening against a smaller and more agile target like a human.

[Slayn82]

The lower center of mass, the capacity of going up and down most stairs found in buildings, the larger speed of reproduction, along with everything else make them wild boars quite a nasty threat. They actually already are a threat in Brazilian South and near Arngentina, eating crops, and event breaking in rural buildings. So much that there's even special permissions for their hunt.

[DigoDragon]

I think I'm going to start asking people what their 'cow survival plan' is, whenever zombies come up. :smallbiggrin:

Stairs. And maybe a propane grill at the bottom.



a member there who is from Poland suggested something even worse - an uprising by feral pigs/boars.

Are they able to...


the capacity of going up and down most stairs found in buildings

...yup, we're doomed.


On the plus side, when the military moves in with flamethrowers, it's gonna smell like the Best Day Ever.

[thompur]

For some reason, this (http://marvel.wikia.com/Bessie_(Earth-616)) Came to mind.

[Solaris]

Wild boar start at the low end of 200 lbs in Western Europe or North Africa, and can get upward of 600 or 700 pounds in parts of Eastern Europe and Asia; a 'small' Jersey cow will be over 1,000 pounds. So they are considerably smaller, but I'd take into account both the intelligence and the ferocity. A bull is big and aggressive, but defensively so, they are still herbivores. Pigs are extremely omnivorous scavengers, and they're not too picky about whether their meat is dead yet or not, and can also be very aggressive. That lion will probably go after the 200-lb pig, but the 600-lb Eurasian boar is probably bigger than he is. That smaller weight can also be advantageous in shifting directions against a moving target, compared the inertia a thousand or two thousand pounds of angry bull will build up, so they're also more threatening against a smaller and more agile target like a human.

The pigs are catching up.
Hogzilla (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hogzilla)

[Coidzor]

The pigs are catching up.
Hogzilla (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hogzilla)

The most far-fetched thing about this is that there were remains to exhume. :smallconfused:

[The Glyphstone]

As mentioned, there are some breeds of wild pig that can get upwards of 600 or 700 pounds in Asia and Eastern Europe. So a hybrid of wild boar and domestic (who are bred for size, thus meat) being 800 lbs isn't too far-fetched.

[Avilan the Grey]

Btw, the subject line sounds like a Plants vs Zombies ripoff I would play.

[Coidzor]

As mentioned, there are some breeds of wild pig that can get upwards of 600 or 700 pounds in Asia and Eastern Europe. So a hybrid of wild boar and domestic (who are bred for size, thus meat) being 800 lbs isn't too far-fetched.

You'd let 800 pounds of pig go to waste and then take the time and labor to *bury* the thing? :smallconfused:


Btw, the subject line sounds like a Plants vs Zombies ripoff I would play.

10/10, someone should get on that.

[The Glyphstone]

You'd let 800 pounds of pig go to waste and then take the time and labor to *bury* the thing? :smallconfused:



10/10, someone should get on that.

Okay, fair enough. Maybe the bits they tried just didn't taste good, so they buried the rest of the carcass? I have no idea how wild pig tastes, let alone what a wild/domestic pig hybrid, let alone one that has grown to 800 lbs.

[BannedInSchool]

You'd let 800 pounds of pig go to waste and then take the time and labor to *bury* the thing? :smallconfused:
Reportedly they weren't out in the deep woods and had a backhoe, which is how they lifted it up for the picture. The time and labor for burying it with the backhoe would be less than trying to butcher the thing, I guess. They couldn't exactly take it home and put it in the fridge. *shrug*

[danzibr]

Totally using this for an undead apocalypse campaign this summer.

[Wardog]

Large hoofed animal vs. undead.

Which is more dangerous depends on which version of Dwarf Fortress you are running, but regardless, you want to stay well out of the way :smallwink:

[Legato Endless]

Reportedly they weren't out in the deep woods and had a backhoe, which is how they lifted it up for the picture. The time and labor for burying it with the backhoe would be less than trying to butcher the thing, I guess. They couldn't exactly take it home and put it in the fridge. *shrug*

You don't refrigerate something like that anyways. You need a big container, like a (clean) trash can and you leave it sealed to marinate for a month or more. But yeah, unless you're majorly into grilling or doing a party, its a lot more work.