Question regarding Tough feat

[Fumble Jack]

A fellow player, playing a half orc barb, now level 8 , took tough at first level they could get a feat (level 4). At a 17 starting con (rolled stats), they now have a 119 total hp.

I wanted to know if the calculation is accurate, counting average hp? Reason I'm trying to help them but I don't think Tough can get you at that high a total by level 8. Was going to suggest they swap it out for something more beneficial to their build, but if the calculation is accurate then I would leave it be.

[hymer]

A fellow player, playing a half orc barb, now level 8 , took tough at first level they could. At a 17 starting con (rolled stats), they now have a 119 total hp.

I wanted to know if the calculation is accurate, counting average hp? Reason I'm trying to help them but I don't think Tough can get you at that high a total by level 8. Was going to suggest they swap it out for something more beneficial to their build, but if the calculation is accurate then I would leave it be.

Well...
Level 1: 12 (base) +3 (con 17) +2 (Tough) = 17
Levels 2-8: 7 (base) +3 (con 17) +2 (Tough) = 12
Total: 101

But if they went up in Con somewhere along the line, they'd have more.

[Naanomi]

By default you wouldn't have a feat as a half-orc at first but; I assume your DM gave everyone a bonus feat? Anyways...

A 20th Hilldwarf Barbarian with Tough and 24 Con (a simple but functional build with point buy) could have up to 21 hp/level, or 420 HP? What a wall of meat! Hand that man a pair of Berseker Axes!

Taking averages would still be an impressive 316 HP

[Fumble Jack]

By default you wouldn't have a feat as a half-orc at first but; I assume your DM gave everyone a bonus feat? Anyways...

A 20th Hilldwarf Barbarian with Tough and 24 Con (a simple but functional build with point buy) could have up to 21 hp/level, or 420 HP? What a wall of meat! Hand that man a pair of Berseker Axes!

To Clarify, at first level they could I mean level 4, the first level you can choose to pick a feat. Sorry for any confusion. I'll edit my post to clarify.

[kaoskonfety]

Well...
Level 1: 12 (base) +3 (con 17) +2 (Tough) = 17
Levels 2-8: 7 (base) +3 (con 17) +2 (Tough) = 12
Total: 101

But if they went up in Con somewhere along the line, they'd have more.

this is more or less what I got but this guy seems to know the actual rules for the feat :P
101 at con 17
Using the second feat/stat advance to get more con gets them 109 hp, if they somehow mange to get con 20 117hp - not sure where the 119 is coming from unless they rolled some dice for HP - this is above the average roll but quite possible in that case. Wouldn't raise my eyebrows if someone showed up with it.

Tough works well with the class rage to be resistant to damage - each HP counting as 2 gets alot of mileage out of a few extra HP's. Might not be the "Best Feat", but it ain't bad.


To Clarify, at first level they could I mean level 4, the first level you can choose to pick a feat. Sorry for any confusion. I'll edit my post to clarify.

The level you take the feat has no impact on your totals - it adds based on your total levels, not "starting with when you take it". Unless I completely misread it?


Edit - might help if you post the calculation you/ they are doing?

[Fumble Jack]

They did the calculation as following : 12+ (7*7)level average past first +(3*8)con mod+ 8 from tough feat at 4+ (2*7) retroactive tough boost = which still comes to 107. Okay 119 was a miscalculation.

[hymer]

+ 8 from tough feat at 4+ (2*7) retroactive tough boost

I don't really get what they're doing there, but it looks wrong. Tough gives you 2hp per level you already have, and it adds another two every time you advance in level. Or in other words, it gives you two hp per level you have at any given time. It's like +2 to con bonus for hp purposes.

[kaoskonfety]

Generally agreeing with Hymer:
2 hp per character level, straight up 16 HP at level 8.
I would assume the extended wording on the simple feat is a sacrifice to please the rule lawyer gods.

I generally feel the feat is not optimal on most fighter types as the HP increase does not really show up against a good hit die quite as well (you could instead take the +2 con and get half the feat value in HP anyway as well as better saves etc.) and the other feats give better tricks than "more meat".

It shines a bit on a Barbarian due to the number being functionally doubled when in a rage. I'd still likely highlight a +1 con feat or +1 con and +1 Str as an alternate choice for similar effect, but there is nothing wrong with it.

[Daishain]

A 20th Hilldwarf Barbarian with Tough and 24 Con (a simple but functional build with point buy) could have up to 21 hp/level, or 420 HP? What a wall of meat! Hand that man a pair of Berseker Axes!

There's a hard cap of 20 on all stats.

[Shining Wrath]

There's a hard cap of 20 on all stats.

Not for 20th level barbarians there isn't - they get +4 to STR and CON, with 24 explicitly stated as achievable. And given that rational players are going to max out STR and CON on their non-bow barbarian - 24 is likely.

[Chadamantium]

For a little buff to the feat, what about advantage on hit die roll on level up

[Fumble Jack]

Advantage on hit die roll? Don't think that would fly with the Dm, I also see how they miscalculated. I agree on a fighter meh, but they are playing a tanky barb so while not as high as they calculated, still a decent block of hp.