First Vampire

[j_spencer93]

Who was the first vampire? Because 5.0 mentions a specific being of renown, but in 3.5 i am wondering if it was ever brought up

[Tohsaka Rin]

I think traditionally, it was the biblical Caine, but don't quote me on that.

[j_spencer93]

oddly...5.0 dungeon masters guide says it is Strahd.

[Tommy_Dude]

I believe Strahd was from the Castle Ravenloft stuff in 3.5, and as that entire campaign setting was gothic horror, it makes sense.

[Milo v3]

I think traditionally, it was the biblical Caine, but don't quote me on that.

I don't think WotC would use biblical figures that well known.

[Tohsaka Rin]

I believe Strahd was from the Castle Ravenloft stuff in 3.5, and as that entire campaign setting was gothic horror, it makes sense.

According to wikipedia, Strahd was from AD&D's Ravenloft module, so even older than you think.

[(Un)Inspired]

I believe it was Aaliyah.

[j_spencer93]

wait i think i missed read, i could have sword it said first vampire...but it says master vampire.

Wait, nope it was under the Domains of Dread part:
"The best known of these is the valley of Barovia, overlooked by the towering spires of Castle Ravenloft and ruled by Count Strahd von Zarovich, the first vampire."

[Belial_the_Leveler]

Regardless of who the first vampire was, the most dangerous vampire is the one that gets one copy of each stat-boosting tome/manual then reads them 10 times each over the next millennium.


Because a strength of 38 is awesome.

[j_spencer93]

lol ok...my question was, lore wise is this true for older editions. I don't ever remember hearing of him being the 1st vampire

[Sam K]

It's setting based. Strahd is probably not the first vampire in dragonlance, because he doesn't live on that plane, but he may be the first vampire in the ravenloft setting.

If you mean the first vampire in the multiverse, I don't think there is one. I hope not. Vampires suck!

And Cain being the first vampire is from "Vampire: the masquerade" by White Wolf. Not D&D.

[TheGeckoKing]

Probably Kanchelsis, God of Vampires.

[Mr.Kraken]

Vampires suck!

They do. They really do.

[Tohsaka Rin]

Regardless of who the first vampire was, the most dangerous vampire is the one that gets one copy of each stat-boosting tome/manual then reads them 10 times each over the next millennium.


Because a strength of 38 is awesome.

Yeah, if not for the fact that those items don't stack with themselves, and cap out at a max of +5 to any given stat.

Would be nice, otherwise.

[Bronk]

Yeah, if not for the fact that those items don't stack with themselves, and cap out at a max of +5 to any given stat.

Would be nice, otherwise.

Yeah, plus sadly the tomes and manuals become mundane books after one reading...

[atemu1234]

I don't know if there is an outright "first" vampire.

In general, however, I'd make the following supposition.


There is a race of demon from Fiend Folio that drinks blood and converts fiends into more of its kind.
I'd say one of those got to the Prime Material, and decided to see what happens if it gives its blood to a mortal.
That mortal became the first vampire, the disease spread, creating vampirism as we know it.


What do you think?

[defiantdan]

Yeah, if not for the fact that those items don't stack with themselves, and cap out at a max of +5 to any given stat.

Would be nice, otherwise.

Not only that but a 38 str is nothing particularly fancy in achieving in a 1000 years. Hulking hurler's get way scarier much sooner.

[Ashtagon]

wait i think i missed read, i could have sword it said first vampire...but it says master vampire.

Wait, nope it was under the Domains of Dread part:
"The best known of these is the valley of Barovia, overlooked by the towering spires of Castle Ravenloft and ruled by Count Strahd von Zarovich, the first vampire."

Do you mean first vampire as in most important, or the first vampire to exist? By way of explanation of the difference, Hilary Clinton has been a first lady, but I doubt she was the first lady in the USA. I think when Ravenloft called Strahd the first vampire, it was the 'importance' sense of the word they were using.

According to some myths, Lillith was the first vampire, but explaining who she was gets into not allowed on this site areas.

Another legend says it was a guy in the 16th century (http://www.gods-and-monsters.com/history-of-vampires.html).

afaik, D&D has never given an official "origin" story for vampires.

[atemu1234]

Do you mean first vampire as in most important, or the first vampire to exist? By way of explanation of the difference, Hilary Clinton has been a first lady, but I doubt she was the first lady in the USA. I think when Ravenloft called Strahd the first vampire, it was the 'importance' sense of the word they were using.

According to some myths, Lillith was the first vampire, but explaining who she was gets into not allowed on this site areas.

Another legend says it was a guy in the 16th century (http://www.gods-and-monsters.com/history-of-vampires.html).

afaik, D&D has never given an official "origin" story for vampires.

Without going into detail, I'd like to point out Lilith would be closer to D&D's succubi.

[Andezzar]

I don't think WotC would use biblical figures that well known.Caine from WotC is supposed to be the biblical Caine. Ther's are a lot of biblical references in V:tM and DA:V. The clan founders for example are also called Antediluvians as in before the Great Flood.


Regardless of who the first vampire was, the most dangerous vampire is the one that gets one copy of each stat-boosting tome/manual then reads them 10 times each over the next millennium.The tomes and manuals are one use only. So no rereading.

[Segev]

In a campaign setting of mine (the one where humans are extinct), there were actually two "first vampires." They were a brother and sister, and were half elf, half human. They'd made pacts with greater wolf and bat spirits (respectively), and were druids of some skill. When their human father cast his death curse over the entire region, and the elf kobold-designed humanophage swept through, they died, but used their powers and transfusions of blood from full elves to keep from passing on. Their tie to the nature spirits mingled with their father's necromantic magic, creating a new form of undead which fed upon the blood of the living to stave off decay and final cessation. They pass on the modified, necromantic phage which makes one dependent on the blood of one's own kind to keep from rotting to death when they bite, though somebody has to die while infected for it to take hold.

This is where the "thrice bitten" rule of thumb came from: feeding on the same person three nights in a row is likely to kill them, and they're definitely possessed of the necromantic phage. Draining a victim entirely to death leaves no blood to even begin the reanimation process, however, so the rot sets in immediately. One would have to feed such a commatose victim some blood to awaken them even enough to frenzy. (This is also why some vampires create spawn by feeding them their own blood after draining them to death.)

[KillianHawkeye]

Caine from WotC is supposed to be the biblical Caine. Ther's are a lot of biblical references in V:tM and DA:V. The clan founders for example are also called Antediluvians as in before the Great Flood.

As already mentioned, that's White Wolf, not Wizards of the Coast. Totally different company and not related in any way to D&D vampires.



As far as Strahd being the first vampire, I seem to recall reading that he claimed to be the first one but it probably wasn't really true.

[Andezzar]

As already mentioned, that's White Wolf, not Wizards of the Coast. Totally different company and not related in any way to D&D vampires.I know, I forgot to mention that White Wolf history has nothing to do with D&D




As far as Strahd being the first vampire, I seem to recall reading that he claimed to be the first one but it probably wasn't really true.And as far as I know, even if it were true it wouldn't apply to all the other campaign settings, right?

[KillianHawkeye]

I know, I forgot to mention that White Wolf history has nothing to do with D&D

Well, you said "Caine from WotC." If you don't like being corrected, try to not write incorrect things. :smallamused:

[Flickerdart]

Another legend says it was a guy in the 16th century (http://www.gods-and-monsters.com/history-of-vampires.html).
The vampire myth is much older than that - even Mesopotamia had vampire myths.


I don't think WotC would use biblical figures that well known.
BoVD mentions Satan and Lucifer by name, though it is a remarkably stupid book.

[Deophaun]

Not only that but a 38 str is nothing particularly fancy in achieving in a 1000 years. Hulking hurler's get way scarier much sooner.
Imagine an epic-level vampire with Permanent Emanation: Consumptive Field. Now imagine his Strength score in 1000 years.

[Telonius]

I suppose the first vampire would have appeared after either the first Humanoid or the First Monstrous Humanoid in the setting. (Since you can only apply the template to Humanoids or Monstrous Humanoids, you'd have to have one of those things first before you could have a Vampire).

[Shining Wrath]

Looking at the Wikipedia entry, it appears the origins of the mythic vampire quo vampire were SE Europe in the 17th century, although it does mention antecedents in other mythos. Those vampires were often people who were "bad" in life (e.g., witches) or possessed by a fiend.

Baron von Strahd is described in the 5e MM as the first vampire. He may a deal with evil entities to obtain youth and of course it ended badly, as such deals usually do. This is more or less the "possessed by a fiend" version from SE European myth.

So, the first vampire was someone possessed by a fiend who passed his sanguine curse on to others; possibly, this person was Baron von Strahd.

[Mr.Kraken]

I suppose the first vampire would have appeared after either the first Humanoid or the First Monstrous Humanoid in the setting. (Since you can only apply the template to Humanoids or Monstrous Humanoids, you'd have to have one of those things first before you could have a Vampire).

There's also the vampiric dragon template, which may actually mean that the first vampire was in fact a dragon. Dragons tend to be the firsts in everything, most of the time.

[sideswipe]

I think traditionally, it was the biblical Caine, but don't quote me on that.

your thinking of the world of darkness.

[Ashtagon]

The vampire myth is much older than that - even Mesopotamia had vampire myths.

I was specifically looking for myths that talk about the "vanilla" vampire most common in European folklore. If you widen the scope to any human-derived blood-drinker, then the cultures that possess such myths are so old and widespread that you cannot legitimately identify a single origin for all of them.

[M Placeholder]

So, the first vampire was someone possessed by a fiend who passed his sanguine curse on to others; possibly, this person was Baron von Strahd.

How did he manage to pass on his curse to the rest of the multiverse? Hes a prisoner of the Demiplane of Dread. Did one of his spawn leave the plane to spread the curse, and are vampires a recent addition (in universe) to the D&D verse?

[ahenobarbi]

Obviously a wizard became a vampire, casted some divinations and learned ([s]he)|(it) needs to teleport through time to turn some folks in to vampires or be eaten by time paraox :P

EDIT: then the wizard became Vecna-blooded, that's why ([s]he)|(it) is not mentioned anywhere.

[Flickerdart]

I suppose the first vampire would have appeared after either the first Humanoid or the First Monstrous Humanoid in the setting. (Since you can only apply the template to Humanoids or Monstrous Humanoids, you'd have to have one of those things first before you could have a Vampire).
Monstrous Vampire (Ghostwalk) can be applied to any creature and is otherwise identical to the regular variant.


I was specifically looking for myths that talk about the "vanilla" vampire most common in European folklore. If you widen the scope to any human-derived blood-drinker, then the cultures that possess such myths are so old and widespread that you cannot legitimately identify a single origin for all of them.
Then you're still looking at least as far back as pre-Christianization Slavs, whose upyr had most of the features of the modern vampire.

[Ashtagon]

Monstrous Vampire (Ghostwalk) can be applied to any creature and is otherwise identical to the regular variant.


Then you're still looking at least as far back as pre-Christianization Slavs, whose upyr had most of the features of the modern vampire.

The Lillith vampire myth predates those Slavs.

[Flickerdart]

The Lillith vampire myth predates those Slavs.
That's why I said at least. The salient point is that "17th century Europe" is not the origin.

[Urpriest]

How did he manage to pass on his curse to the rest of the multiverse? Hes a prisoner of the Demiplane of Dread. Did one of his spawn leave the plane to spread the curse, and are vampires a recent addition (in universe) to the D&D verse?

Presumably he was a vampire before the mists claimed him.

[Ashtagon]

That's why I said at least. The salient point is that "17th century Europe" is not the origin.


Another legend says it was a guy in the 16th century (http://www.gods-and-monsters.com/history-of-vampires.html).

*I* never said it was the origin. The legend itself claimed to be the oldest. The fact that this claim is perhaps untrue doesn't change the fact that it claims to be the oldest. And more important, it doesn't change the fact that interested GMs can use it (with serial numbers removed if desired) as the vampire origin myth in *their* games.

Anyhow, re-reading it, it seems it is more like 16th century BC, as it makes heavy use of ancient Greek deities in the story. Can't say for sure if that means it pre-dates the Lillith myth or not (which appears to date from around the 5th century BC in documented form). Googling around, I can't find anything confirming if this "Scriptures of Delphi" is an ancient or modern document though.

[j_spencer93]

Well some interesting reading here. So no, before no it was never stated he was the first. Also, as pointed out maybe they didn't mean first in the common use, but first in importance, although the way it is written i doubt that. Thinking its a retcon actually.

[Thurbane]

Probably Kanchelsis, God of Vampires.

That would also be my best guess.

2E Monster mythology, Dragon 346 & 359, Dungeon 123.

[Tohsaka Rin]

Or maybe it was Caine with a 'K'.


http://www.videogameszone.de/screenshots/667x375/2013/08/Janos-Vorador_legacy_of_kain-pc-games.jpg


I guess not, wishful thinking, mostly though.

[Andezzar]

Raziel is also quite different in D&D.

[Karl Aegis]

Orcus created the first vampire. He hated the vampire. He then used teleport through time to make a vampire before that one. He hated that vampire even more. He tasked this second vampire to meet the first vampire in the future and tell him just how much he, Orcus, hated him.

[Belial_the_Leveler]

The tomes and manuals are one use only. So no rereading.
In 5th edition they not only are reusable every 100 years but they give an ability increase (just like leveling) rather than a bonus. They're "rare" items and the increase is always +2.



As for Str 38 not being high? In 5th Ed normal ability scores cap at 20 and most stat-boosters don't exist.

[Andezzar]

Isn't this the 3.5 forum?

[atemu1234]

Isn't this the 3.5 forum?

True, but that in no way stops us from referencing other editions.

[Lathund]

Outside D&D, every story has its own vampire lore, including its own original vampires. Some of which I really like. One of the versions I liked was a Dracula tale, where Dracula turned out to be Judas - Jesus' traitor. It nicely explained the passionate hate he had for holy symbols and such. Many other stories draw on fully fictional first vampires, including Underworld and Vampire Diaries.

I guess what I'm trying to say is: be creative. You can write your own lore, either or not inspired by others.

[Eldan]

I was specifically looking for myths that talk about the "vanilla" vampire most common in European folklore. If you widen the scope to any human-derived blood-drinker, then the cultures that possess such myths are so old and widespread that you cannot legitimately identify a single origin for all of them.

Well, what's vanilla, then? Vampire myths, even in Europe, are very broad and very diverse. Do you count the kind of vampire that possesses tools, such as axes or shovels and makes them bloodthirsty? Are your vampires invisible spirits? Walking corpses? Beautiful and tempting dark strangers? Do they fear sunlight, the power of god, garlic or dirt from their own grave? When people think "classic vampire", they think Dracula, which is from the 19th century. And even he wasn't vulnerable to sunlight.

[Karl Aegis]

Do blood-sucking manpurses count as vampires? AD&D had some sort of blood-sucking manpurse in one of their editions.

[atemu1234]

Do blood-sucking manpurses count as vampires? AD&D had some sort of blood-sucking manpurse in one of their editions.

I want one. Or five.

I WILL BREED THEM AND LEAVE THEM IN A PIT TRAP!

[Werephilosopher]

The first vampire was a test subject of an epic caster (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/seeds/animateDead.htm).

[Eldan]

Do blood-sucking manpurses count as vampires? AD&D had some sort of blood-sucking manpurse in one of their editions.

I don't see why not, if the vampire melon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vampire_pumpkins_and_watermelons) counts.

[atemu1234]

The first vampire was a test subject of an epic caster (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/seeds/animateDead.htm).

Ironically one of the less-broken uses for Epic casting.

[Zubrowka74]

As far as Strahd being the first vampire, I seem to recall reading that he claimed to be the first one but it probably wasn't really true.

Well, his domain Barovia is often described as the first in Ravenloft. And Strahd himself seems to believe so. As far as the setting is concerned that might be true. I seriously doubt that he's the first in the multiverse. If immortal fiends can cause humans to become vampires then the real first one must be at the genesis of the lower plane and the fiendish races...

[mastermisha1]

I suppose the first vampire would have appeared after either the first Humanoid or the First Monstrous Humanoid in the setting. (Since you can only apply the template to Humanoids or Monstrous Humanoids, you'd have to have one of those things first before you could have a Vampire).

Was just reading the ToB Shadow Sun Ninja entries and under the Balance of Light and Dark it lists that any Shadow Sun Ninja that uses the ability and is reduced to less then 0 Con and not True Resurrected shortly after become a vampire. Does this over rule the requirements of the template?

[Thurbane]

There's also a Monstrous Vampire template in Ghostwalk (which, I suppose, makes it kind of setting specific), which can be applied to Aberrations, Animals, Dragons, Fey, Giants, Humanoids, Magical Beasts, Monstrous humanoids, and Vermin...

So maybe a giant cockroach was the first vampire?

[Ashtagon]

So maybe a giant cockroach was the first vampire?

No, that'd be the last vampire. I suspect an amoeba would have been the first vampire.

My first thought was that it'd be a proto-mammal, or possibly a trilobite, based on the idea of a vampire needing to feed off blood (ie haemoglobin). Apparently, haemoglobin is far far older than that. Even plants and some bacteria have haemoglobin.

http://zoology.wisc.edu/courses/611/Part2/Readings/5The_Evolution_of_Hemoglobin.pdf

[endur]

So, in 2e AD&D, Strahd was not the oldest vampire in Ravenloft, but he may have been the most powerful.

Let's assume the 2e stuff has been retconned away. I like Strahd as first vampire.

[Zale]

Carmilla predates Dracula by 26 years.

[ShurikVch]

Carmilla predates Dracula by 26 years. And The Vampyre (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Vampyre) predates them both by more than half-century

[Belial_the_Leveler]

And old Sumerian blood-drinkers in the underworld predate them by 6.000+ years.

[Thurbane]

I'm seriously going to have to have a Monstrous Vampire Giant Cockroach in my game at some point! :smallbiggrin:

...maybe throw Fiendish on there so it gets an INT score.

:roach: :roach: :roach: :roach: :roach: :roach:

[Flickerdart]

I'm seriously going to have to have a Monstrous Vampire Giant Cockroach in my game at some point! :smallbiggrin:

...maybe throw Fiendish on there so it gets an INT score.

:roach: :roach: :roach: :roach: :roach: :roach:
It is the dawn of time. The first animals gingerly take their first steps onto land. These land-dwellers soon find themselves at the mercy of a swift and merciless creature, as the vampiroach drains their blood. When suddenly backed into a corner by an unexpectedly powerful predator, he reveals his ultimate attack - transforming into a mammal!

[atemu1234]

I'm seriously going to have to have a Monstrous Vampire Giant Cockroach in my game at some point! :smallbiggrin:

...maybe throw Fiendish on there so it gets an INT score.

:roach: :roach: :roach: :roach: :roach: :roach:

I once had a Cancer Mage who had a pet Giant Cockroach. I named the Cancer Mage Kafka and the Cockroach Gregory. Kudos if you get the reference.

[Zubrowka74]

So, in 2e AD&D, Strahd was not the oldest vampire in Ravenloft, but he may have been the most powerful.

Let's assume the 2e stuff has been retconned away. I like Strahd as first vampire.

Thinking back, Strahd might have been the first vampire of his world. IIRC It is assumed that his domain was the first in Ravenloft but who knows?

Multiversing it complicates the matter. We should ask this question to AfroAkuma. But in the end I think it's the DM's choice for his campaing.

[weckar]

"the first vampire" in Strahd's case, is more a title. Fact is that his bloodline is so... well, the word for it is tough...

[Tohsaka Rin]

FSteak

'Meaty'?