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View Full Version : Pathfinder Tetori - Snapping Turtle Style vs Grabbing Style - Opinions/Advice needed



Abrasis Mindlef
2015-02-11, 05:06 AM
I want to make an expert grappler in pathfinder.
I have been pointed at the Tetori (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/monk/archetypes/paizo---monk-archetypes/tetori) Monk Archetype...and find myself at a loss wether Snapping Turtle Style/Clutch/Shield or Grabbing Style/Drag/Master is better.


Human (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/races/core-races/human) (Tetori, Qui-Gong (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/monk/archetypes/paizo---monk-archetypes/qinggong-monk)) Monk

15 PB:

18 STR 12 DEX 12 CON 10 INT 16 WIS 7 CHA(Dual-talented; with +STR and +WIS)

Alternate Racial traits: Dual-Talented

Traits: Indomitable Faith (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/traits/faith-traits/indomitable-faith), No Escape (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/traits/combat-traits/no-escape-combat)


1st: Unarmed Strike(1d6), Graceful Grappler(full CMB/CMD), AC Bonus(Wis); (Improved Unarmed Strike), (Improved Grapple), (Stunning Fist), Snapping Turtle Style
2nd: Evasion; (Stunning Pin)
3rd: Maneuver Training, Still Mind, Fast Movement(+10'); Snapping Turtle Clutch
4th: Ki, Unarmed Strike(1d8/magic), AC Bonus(+1) Graceful Grappler(no penalties), Counter-Grapple, +1 DEX
5th: Break Free, Purity of Body; Snapping Turtle Shield
6th: Counter-Grapple(vs (total) concealment), Fast Movement(+20'); (Greater Grapple)
7th: High Jump; Bushwhack (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/bushwhack-combat)

(RETRAIN Dual-Talented for Focused Study: Stealth(losing the +2 bonus to WIS) & Snapping Turtle Shield for Hellcat Stealth (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/hellcat-stealth))

8th: Unarmed Strike(1d10), AC Bonus(+2), Graceful Grappler(Grab), Counter-Grapple(flatfooted), +1 STR; (Skill Focus: Perception or Acrobatics)
9th: Inescapable Grasp(no freedom of movement/magic bonus to escape grapple), Fast Movement(+30'); Rapid Grappler
10th: Unarmed Strike(lawful), Counter-Grapple(vs exceptional reach); (Pinning Knockout)
11th: Diamond Body; Grabbing Master
(RETRAIN Turtle Style/Clutch for Grabbing Style/Drag)

12th: Unarmed Strike(2d6), AC Bonus(+3), Fast Movement(+40'), +1 STR
13th: Inescapable Grasp(Dimensional Anchor), Form Lock; Equipment Trick(Rope)
14th: (Chokehold)
15th: Graceful Grappler(Constrict), Diamond Soul, Fast Movement(+50'); Final Embrace (Grab smaller without KI! Also, if you want to grab same size/larger: 1 ki with ring of ki mastery)
16th: Unarmed Strike(2d8/adamantine), AC Bonus(+4), +1 STR; (Skill Focus: Acrobatics or Perception)
17th: Inescapable Grasp(Ghost touch, grapple incorporeal); Final Embrace Horror
18th: Fast Movement(+60'); (Neckbreaker)
19th: Iron Body; Final Embrace Master
20th: Unarmed Strike(2d10), AC Bonus(+5), Perfect Self, +1 STR

Observations:
Turtle Style allows for immediate-action grappling someone who has missed me.

Grabbing style allows for one-handed grappling(good if you want to *tie up* someone and need a hand free to hold rope), and eventually it allows you to grapple-damage or grapple-move two targets at once.

Bushwhack + some form of stealth = Charging Grapple -> Grapple, pin or Grapple, tie up(with a -10 penalty, or -5 once equipment trick(rope) is available) in one turn.


----------------------------
Anything that helps grapplers that I have missed?
What style is better?

What magic items can be used to improve grappling?

Psyren
2015-02-11, 08:14 AM
For the record, the "tie up" action during a grapple or pin does not say you need a free hand to hold the rope. Unless I missed a line somewhere, you may be imposing unneeded restrictions.

For Qinggong, get the True Strike ki power and, if you're allowed to, get Quicken SLA at 11. This will let you practically auto-succeed on a few grapple checks per day (the ones you really need to land.)

One big benefit to Grabbing Style is that it lets you wield a Dan Bong in your other hand for added grappling bonuses without a penalty. You can however pick both styles, and use Combat Style Master to switch to Snapping Turtle at the end of your turn for the AC/CMD boost and immediate-action clutch.

For items - you'll want Necklace of Ki Serenity, A Ring of Ki Mastery and a Ki Mat. You'll also want Gauntlets of the Skilled Maneuver (grapple), and possibly a Bodywrap of Mighty Strikes with a relevant property or properties.

MightyPirate
2015-02-11, 09:09 AM
A 2 level dip in white hair witch allows for final embrace shenanigans even earlier. See if your GM will allow it as a Hairloom Weapon (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/traits/equipment-traits/heirloom-weapon). Wield rope and the dan bong, no style required. Plays nicely with combat reflexes and size/reach enlargements.

Combo this with Hamantula Strike (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/hamatula-strike-combat) to trigger three grapples on any one hit. Note that all three will benefit from constrict and final embrace horror stacks with itself due to not using Intimidate rules. Now any strike will have a chance to panic non immune foes for a round. The cruel enchantment goes well with this. Panicked and Sickened debuffs make for easy stunning fist attempts.


Armbands of the Brawler (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/wondrous-items/a-b/armbands-of-the-brawler) are a good low cost item. A Thorny Ioun Stone and a Dusty Rose Prism Ioun Stone in a wayfinder also give a good boost. I recommend a shining, tireless, vanishing, or ebon wayfinder.

Pinning Knockout (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/pinning-knockout-combat) is a good way up your damage but it needs feral combat training to combine with white hair shenanigans. Sadly feral combat training is a lot more attractive if you don't give up flurry of blows but it's still good for ability to do nonlethal and scaling damage.

Edit: Almost forgot the Deific Obedience (http://www.archivesofnethys.com/FeatDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Deific%20Obedience) to Falayna (http://www.archivesofnethys.com/DeityDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Falayna) how silly of me.