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Suzaku
2007-04-06, 12:59 AM
I been looking at Star Wars d20 and it looks like Jedis could be adapted and play into a D&D world. The Lightsaber could start out as 1d8 and then become more powerful as you gain Jedi levels, the force skills could like magic but uses up HP. But how does it compare to other classes besides Fighter and CoDzilla and Wizard?

TheElfLord
2007-04-06, 01:07 AM
I been looking at Star Wars d20 and it looks like Jedis could be adapted and play into a D&D world. The Lightsaber could start out as 1d8 and then become more powerful as you gain Jedi levels, the force skills could like magic but uses up HP. But how does it compare to other classes besides Fighter and CoDzilla and Wizard?

I always saw a strong conectiion between Jedi and psychic warriors. Use of the mind/will to perform powers, decent fighting skills, love of crystals etc.

Starsinger
2007-04-06, 02:17 AM
Isn't the idea of the d20 system that you can mix and match things? Personally I think Jedi could be placed into D&D if that's what you want to do.

Accolon
2007-04-06, 02:23 AM
The Soul Knife from the Expanded Psionic's Handbook is actually a near perfect Jedi, especially if combined in multi-class with a Psion. A Soul Knife conjures what is called a Mind Blade at 1st level with a bonus, weapon focus. The initial blade does 1d6, but improves to 1d8 at 3rd, +1 at 4th, and continues to rise in "enchantment bonuses" and other powers through the levels. At 2nd level, the Soulknife can throw the mind blade and just make up another one for his next turn, giving him a ranged attack. At 3rd level, the Soulknife can add "Psychic Strike" to his blade as a move action and deal an additional 1d8 of damage. This damage rises as he rises in level also. Starting at 6th level he can add weapon specific abilities defending, keen, etc (there is a list in the book) His BAB starts at +0, but then rises +1; it skips every 3rd level, so levels 4 and 5 are both +3, but it's not bad.

To add the Jedi's force powers, though, you would have to have a level of Psion for the pyschic power points, or Wilder.

The EPH also has a more melee orientated class called the Psychic Warrior, who can manifest a limited number of power points and powers, but uses a regular melee weapon. It could be a good jedi class as well.

Duskwither
2007-04-06, 02:53 AM
I've been tempted to just throw one in on a whim, and see how he compares to everyone else. I think he'd be pretty balanced in comparison to CoDzilla, but may make the Fighter look bad.

Their Force Abilities come in the form of skills, so using them frequently is pretty flexible. However, handling the Dark Side points will be DM discretion, depending if there is a 'Dark Side' in whatever place the Jedi is thrown into.

LCR
2007-04-06, 03:02 AM
I don't know, but I think 1d8 for a lightsaber might be a bit weak. A lightsaber seems to be much better than, say, a longsword.

Holocron Coder
2007-04-06, 07:25 AM
Wouldn't the lightsaber be more of a +1 Flaming Brilliant Bastard Sword at the minimum? Given that it ignores most material (armor), and burns upon contact...

Otherwise, could probably work. Don't see why not.

martyboy74
2007-04-06, 07:44 AM
Unfortunately, (d20-)realistically modeling Jedi makes them far, far, too powerful.

Holocron Coder
2007-04-06, 07:47 AM
Unfortunately, (d20-)realistically modeling Jedi makes them far, far, too powerful.

See Star Wars d20 RPG. Unless you're implying that they are too powerful even in that manual.

martyboy74
2007-04-06, 07:50 AM
See Star Wars d20 RPG. Unless you're implying that they are too powerful even in that manual.

In D&D. They work in d20, because the system is designed to hold them. However, D&D doesn't have nearly the level of tech required, so a lightsaber would end up being a +X brilliant flaming blah bastard sword. It wouldn't be balanced.

Flawless
2007-04-06, 07:50 AM
I always thought of the sword sage as the DnD Jedi Knight. I think they are pretty close.

elliott20
2007-04-06, 09:45 AM
I've been tempted to just throw one in on a whim, and see how he compares to everyone else. I think he'd be pretty balanced in comparison to CoDzilla, but may make the Fighter look bad.

that's because EVERYTHING makes the fighter look bad.

Zincorium
2007-04-06, 09:46 AM
that's because EVERYTHING makes the fighter look bad.

'Cept warrior.

martyboy74
2007-04-06, 09:50 AM
NPC classes don't count; anyways, WotC made the warrior by stripping the fighter's feats.

Catch
2007-04-06, 09:51 AM
You could make a Jedi-esque tutelage of Psychic Warriors. Pretty much the same sort of thing in terms of power and fighting ability, though you'd have to tailor the powers list if you were focused on exactly duplicating all the various Force abilities.

Kultrum
2007-04-06, 09:55 AM
'Cept warrior.

or a pally that screwed up

talsine
2007-04-06, 11:01 AM
d20 SW is a very bland game. that assid,e your best bet would be to build a PsiWar and just use the Jedi code for your character. It would work after a fasion. Me, i can't play SW, my personal outlook is in conflict with the black/white of good/evil in the SW world. My characters fall to the dark side too often.

the_tick_rules
2007-04-06, 11:15 AM
it could happen, all those D&D wizards creating portals to odd places, all of a sudden Mace Windu shows up.

Latronis
2007-04-06, 11:17 AM
Well you could have a Psionic Warrior\Monk\Psionic Fist with a Flaming Brilliant Energy Quarterstaff and say its a jedi with a doublesaber

elliott20
2007-04-06, 01:01 PM
it could happen, all those D&D wizards creating portals to odd places, all of a sudden Mace Windu shows up.
Was I the only one who always felt Mace Windu should have been more like Jules Winnfield in Pulp Fiction?

"Does Darth Vader look like a b**** to you?!?"

wookie: "wrrrlll?"

"Then why are you trying to f*** him like one!?!"

wookie: "wrrrlll"

"say wrrllll one more time! Say wrrrrlll one more time!!"

AmoDman
2007-04-06, 01:04 PM
I've never seen the Star Wars D20 material, but I think it might be an interesting idea to create a homebrewed Psi War/Soulknife class...in fact, I might do just that!

Latronis
2007-04-06, 01:17 PM
Was I the only one who always felt Mace Windu should have been more like Jules Winnfield in Pulp Fiction?

"Does Darth Vader look like a b**** to you?!?"

wookie: "wrrrlll?"

"Then why are you trying to f*** him like one!?!"

wookie: "wrrrlll"

"say wrrllll one more time! Say wrrrrlll one more time!!"

Been watching some YTMND have we?

elliott20
2007-04-06, 01:27 PM
there was a YTMND page for this? man, I am out of touch.

Latronis
2007-04-06, 01:31 PM
I'll PM it to you since its a 'not safe for work'

Suzaku
2007-04-06, 03:07 PM
can I get the pm also? But you can always edit the light saber not to be brilliant energy.

Latronis
2007-04-06, 03:11 PM
you could just... answer me on msn >_<

elliott20
2007-04-06, 03:14 PM
I'll PM it to you since its a 'not safe for work'
damn, that's so awesome

BabbageCliolog
2007-04-06, 03:30 PM
I been looking at Star Wars d20 and it looks like Jedis could be adapted and play into a D&D world. The Lightsaber could start out as 1d8 and then become more powerful as you gain Jedi levels, the force skills could like magic but uses up HP. But how does it compare to other classes besides Fighter and CoDzilla and Wizard?

I ran a D20 Multi-Verse game, mixing D20 SW, Farscape, Stargate SG-1, and D&D, just to name a few D20 games (see my campaign design 'zine (http://1001nightsand1night.110mb.com) for more info).

I used the D20 SW system as the base system, with Wounds and Vitality Points (instead of hit points). If there was a problem with the rules, I fudged as necessary. So dropping a Jedi into a D&D world is not really that much of a problem. Adjust as necessary.

Also, why bother with reducing the lightsaber damage? Just adjust the bad guys as necessary. So what if he can walk through goblins at 1st level? It's not like they can't hit him back!

/BC

Gamebird
2007-04-06, 03:31 PM
I haven't played Star Wars d20, but I'd think most of what the Jedi do in the movie adapts well to D&D. One issue is that in the movies, we're seeing the best-of-the-best of Jedi warriors, so it's difficult to tell their range of ability. Are all of the bad-asses? Or are some of them a bit gooberish? Judging from the reactions of the non-central-characters in the movies, all Jedi are feared bad-asses.

That poses a bit of a problem for D&D as it relates to PCs. D&D posits that PCs go from being weak to powerful. If a PC is playing a Jedi in D&D, then they have start at some level of power and get more powerful.

On a similar vein, Jedi in the movies all come equipped with a brilliant energy flaming vorpal weapon. A starting PC would have to be pretty high level to get one of these within standard WBL. Even if he does get it, what does the DM do when he wants to upgrade it or get something better?

Latronis
2007-04-06, 03:41 PM
On the otherhand its very rare to see Jedi in the movies with the type of power lv20 wizards have at there fingertips

Turcano
2007-04-06, 03:43 PM
Was I the only one who always felt Mace Windu should have been more like Jules Winnfield in Pulp Fiction?

Not really. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vn8MZgZmeT4)

Nowhere Girl
2007-04-07, 12:58 AM
On the otherhand its very rare to see Jedi in the movies with the type of power lv20 wizards have at there fingertips

In the same way that it's "very rare" to see a toy poodle with the strength and mass to knock down brick walls, yes. The most powerful Force-user ever would simply start crying on realizing what a level 20 wizard can do.

Compared to magic, the Force is a joke. In fact, if D&D magic were only as powerful as the Force, it might actually be balanced ...

Kel_Arath
2007-04-07, 12:10 PM
psion (telepath) / soulblade all the way for a jedi!

fireinthedust
2007-04-07, 12:35 PM
That poses a bit of a problem for D&D as it relates to PCs. D&D posits that PCs go from being weak to powerful. If a PC is playing a Jedi in D&D, then they have start at some level of power and get more powerful.

On a similar vein, Jedi in the movies all come equipped with a brilliant energy flaming vorpal weapon. A starting PC would have to be pretty high level to get one of these within standard WBL. Even if he does get it, what does the DM do when he wants to upgrade it or get something better?


That doesn't make sense: what about wizards? they're feared and powerful. Ditto early-level fighters.

Lightsabres in DnD are an exotic weapon that does 2d8 points of damage, ignoring hardness. That's it. So, just like an Adamantium blade, they cut through just about anything eventually. You could argue that they have the flaming ability, or at least that their regular damage does Fire damage, but that's unnecessary unless they're fighting fire-vulnerable creatures.

The d20 SW Jedi would work, except that they use vitality points to power the force skills. You can mind trick as many folks as you want, but you loose temporary HP when you do it. That's what keeps you from directly swapping.

The Psychic warrior would work fine, using power points. Just give them an exotic weapon that's adamantium, and as they gain levels let them deflect spells in ray or line patterns (ie: a feat that lets them do that, or something).

Otherwise, that's it. they're approximate to a psychic warrior. Without the lightsabres (like a priest or druid without a magic focus/holy symbol), they go right down in power level.

fireinthedust
2007-04-07, 12:36 PM
Also: fighters rock. whoever says differently just doesn't know how to build them... but that's a discussion for another thread, I'm sure.

Latronis
2007-04-07, 12:38 PM
well originally i wasn't going to mention the movies at all, then i realised there was some crazy stuff around at the very upper eschelons of force users, so i changed it to specifically mention the movies and just forgot to remove the very rare bit.

Latronis
2007-04-07, 12:41 PM
eh i still say a combination of monk and psychic warrior fits better then the psychic warrior alone... you just need to use a badass weapon as a lightsabre replacement that is a speciality weapon

sikyon
2007-04-07, 01:04 PM
I think that a level 1 Jedi wouldn't really start as a Jedi... ie. they wouldn't get to start with a light saber and would just begin to manifest the force. All those Jedi and Jedi apprentices you see in the movies have gone through years and years of formal training built around millenia of experience from master Jedi... a D&D Jedi that starts at lv 1 shouldn't get that (though one that starts at a higher level, maybe).

Mewtarthio
2007-04-07, 05:33 PM
I think that a level 1 Jedi wouldn't really start as a Jedi... ie. they wouldn't get to start with a light saber and would just begin to manifest the force. All those Jedi and Jedi apprentices you see in the movies have gone through years and years of formal training built around millenia of experience from master Jedi... a D&D Jedi that starts at lv 1 shouldn't get that (though one that starts at a higher level, maybe).

The little childr--I'm sorry, younglings--had lighstabers.


In the same way that it's "very rare" to see a toy poodle with the strength and mass to knock down brick walls, yes. The most powerful Force-user ever would simply start crying on realizing what a level 20 wizard can do.

Compared to magic, the Force is a joke. In fact, if D&D magic were only as powerful as the Force, it might actually be balanced ...

You've clearly never heard of something called the "Expanded Universe." Darth Nihilus of KotoR II fame could drain the life of entire worlds, and I'm fairly certain there were a couple other Dark Siders who could cause destruction on similar scales.

anphorus
2007-04-07, 06:53 PM
You've clearly never heard of something called the "Expanded Universe." Darth Nihilus of KotoR II fame could drain the life of entire worlds, and I'm fairly certain there were a couple other Dark Siders who could cause destruction on similar scales.

I have no clue whether this is true, or weather I just conjured it out of my own imagination but I remember hearing that Luke Skywalker could gravitationally move planets using the force

Fawsto
2007-04-07, 11:07 PM
You Can always be an epic Kensai/Master of the Invisible hand, to get near to a Jedi... Or just buy a Ring of Telecinesis. XD

Dark
2007-04-08, 02:01 AM
In the same way that it's "very rare" to see a toy poodle with the strength and mass to knock down brick walls, yes. The most powerful Force-user ever would simply start crying on realizing what a level 20 wizard can do.
The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the power of the Force!

Tola
2007-04-08, 02:11 AM
Eh.

One of the pieces of Force teachings that always stuck was 'A person with the Force can rule as a king if he is the only one who knows the Force'.

There's a hell of a lot that's possible, as it's basically raw, untapped energy. You just need imagination and the skill to do it. Palpatine-one of the strongest Dark-Siders there IS-CAN destroy planets and space fleets should he choose, using his Force Storm. He just doesn't do so.

I'd like to see a fighter or a wizard block 12-20 melee attacks per second(That is the speed of General Grievous with his four arms).

ZekeArgo
2007-04-08, 08:28 AM
I'd like to see a fighter or a wizard block 12-20 melee attacks per second(That is the speed of General Grievous with his four arms).

Fighter = squish

Wizard = Celerity, timestop, and after that either teleport to prepare whatever he would need (in case he'd already been through 5-6 encounters already), or proceed through the normal "attack routine of ultimate destruction"

sikyon
2007-04-08, 11:32 AM
The little childr--I'm sorry, younglings--had lighstabers.


Training sabers.


Well... are you just looking to drop jedi into D&D? Or are you looking to have, say, either characters in D&D have some sort of backplot as to why they're there, like a crashed spaceship that made the person amnesic or something?

Vaynor
2007-04-08, 11:41 AM
Me and my friend are actually working on two classes for the consular and guardian. Pretty much the guardians are warriors with special abilities, and a few limited powers, the consulars get mind tricks and can control objects, with a power list too. Not exactly a jedi thing, but it's based off of it.

Tack122
2007-04-08, 01:03 PM
Just get a hold of KotOR or KotOR two and copy down the numbers, it is basically a d20 game.
Lightsabers, blasters and everything all have their damage expressed in dice.
The classes are all logically progressing. You can even look them up 1-20 on the online guides.

Its a good starting point.

(KotOR = Knights of the Old Republic)

urodivoi
2007-04-08, 01:41 PM
The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the power of the Force!

:smallbiggrin: I was waiting for that quote.

Ever Phasm
2007-04-08, 02:22 PM
I actually sat down and worked this out once...

The best combination (in my opinion) was a multiclass monk/telepath. The psion powers are more jedi-like (again in my opinion) and the monk offers deflect arrows, evasion etc.

To make a separate class you would use a combination of them. Allowing flurry of blows with a lightsaber, lightsaber damage progression could be the same as unarmed strike (representing the jedi learning how to land better hits with his weapon of distruction).

We could crop the psion-psychic warrior power down to only the most jedi-like ones and give him the power-points of a psychic warrior.

kailin
2007-04-08, 02:59 PM
All this talk of "building a Jedi" using existing D&D classes is well and good, but I think the original question was about porting d20 Star Wars Jedi classes and powers into D&D.

Someone up there made a good point about the tech level in d20 Star Wars, but as long as the lightsaber was adapted to a D&D-appropriate level of awesome (I believe someone raised the suggestion of starting it at 1d8 dmg and increasing with level) then I don't see any problems.

However, keep in mind that d20 Star Wars uses a different hit point system, and Force Powers are linked to hit points. Star Wars characters are much more fragile than d20 ones--and only partly because the weapons in Star Wars are deadlier. You'd have to do some serious work adapting them to D&D, but I'd be really interested in seeing it happen.