Weapon Burst Enchantments. Flaming/Icy/Shocking burst

[ObnoxiousKender]

So I making a level 20-30 fighter and I am looking through weapon enchantments and I see that Flaming, Icy, and Shocking burst are +2 enchantments. (I am using the Magic Item Compendium.) I then wondered if I could stick all three enchantments on my 15-20 crit range Flachion. Can I do this, or is there some secret law of the universe that prevents me from doing this? Money is not an issue.

[The Random NPC]

So I making a level 20-30 fighter and I am looking through weapon enchantments and I see that Flaming, Icy, and Shocking burst are +2 enchantments. (I am using the Magic Item Compendium.) I then wondered if I could stick all three enchantments on my 15-20 crit range Flachion. Can I do this, or is there some secret law of the universe that prevents me from doing this? Money is not an issue.

Nope nothing stops you. Though it is a bit sub optimal, especially for an epic character.

[goto124]

Not to mention the DM asking you how and why in the world the weapon does both Flaming and Icy...

[Jay R]

I would not allow Icy Burst and Flaming together. I might allow a sword that could do either one on command, but if the sword is already flaming when it does a critical hit, there will be no icy burst.

By contrast, in my world there is a near-artifact level sword waiting to be found, called the Sword of Storms. It is a Thundering, Shocking Burst sword, with the once-daily Thunderclap and Lightning Shock powers of a Rod of Thunder and Lightning.

[Elricaltovilla]

Note that by RAW, you can totally have Flaming Burst, Icy Burst and Shocking Burst on your weapon, and anyone telling you they wouldn't allow it is essentially citing a houserule.

[Tragak]

Note that by RAW, you can totally have Flaming Burst, Icy Burst and Shocking Burst on your weapon, and anyone telling you they wouldn't allow it is essentially citing a houserule. Plus, when I hear cool ideas like this, I find that spending creative energy coming up with reasons why they do work is more interesting in the long run than spending creative energy inventing reasons why they don't work (especially in a sci-fi and/or fantasy game).

Right off the top of my head: D&D takes place in a world where hot and cold are their own types of energy, rather than one being "too much of one energy" and the other "not enough of the same energy," and the two coming together would be more like "Fire (matter) + Ice (antimatter) = explosion" rather than "Fire (+heat) + Ice (-heat) = nothing."

See how easy that was, Jay?

[Elricaltovilla]

Plus, when I hear cool ideas like this, I find that spending creative energy coming up with reasons why they do work is more interesting in the long run than spending creative energy inventing reasons why they don't work (especially in a sci-fi and/or fantasy game).

Right off the top of my head: D&D takes place in a world where hot and cold are their own types of energy, rather than one being "too much of one energy" and the other "not enough of the same energy," and the two coming together would be more like "Fire (matter) + Ice (antimatter) = explosion" rather than "Fire (+heat) + Ice (-heat) = nothing."

See how easy that was, Jay?

Or a rapid cycling between extreme heat and cold, resulting in increased cellular damage due to rapid expansion and contraction.

[Tragak]

Or a rapid cycling between extreme heat and cold, resulting in increased cellular damage due to rapid expansion and contraction. You're right, that's also a good one :smallbiggrin:

[Elricaltovilla]

You're right, that's also a good one :smallbiggrin:

My gross misinterpretation of wikipedia articles never fails to lead to interesting results :smalltongue:

[Jay R]

Plus, when I hear cool ideas like this, I find that spending creative energy coming up with reasons why they do work is more interesting in the long run than spending creative energy inventing reasons why they don't work (especially in a sci-fi and/or fantasy game).

Right off the top of my head: D&D takes place in a world where hot and cold are their own types of energy, rather than one being "too much of one energy" and the other "not enough of the same energy," and the two coming together would be more like "Fire (matter) + Ice (antimatter) = explosion" rather than "Fire (+heat) + Ice (-heat) = nothing."

See how easy that was, Jay?

Of course. Inventing rationalizations is always easy. But I don't think that we are inventing what either ice or fire is. While there is a lot of fantasy involved, some basic ideas are already in place. "Fire" and "ice" have actual meanings.

If people want to play with arbitrary rules that change what fire is, then there is no reason why they shouldn't. But I play the game to try to get the feeling of classic fantasy, and fire is what it is, not something else. Sure, it's fantasy, and dragons breathe fire, unlike any real creature. But once we establish that a dragon breathes fire, or that a sword is flaming, then it's fire, and we already know what it is.

If you want to use forces that act unlike fire and ice, fine. Have fun with it. But why not call them "iklohadfg" and "deyrt", instead of deceiving people with the words "fire" and "ice"?

Feel free to play differently. I have no say in your games. But equally, you have no say in my games, and I repeat: I would not allow Icy Burst and Flaming together.

[Thrice Dead Cat]

Feel free to play differently. I have no say in your games. But equally, you have no say in my games, and I repeat: I would not allow Icy Burst and Flaming together.

And has already been mentioned, doing such is a houserule. If you the issue with a magic item doing both fire and cold damage, do you also prevent mages from casting energy admixture'd cold fireballs? Or how about the epic spell hellball? It does all the energy types, so clearly the authors have put some thought into this.

If you let the spells work, what's different from them and a magic item? Magic A is Magic A, after all.

[Troacctid]

There's no reason fire and ice couldn't be used together. There are plenty of existing things that deal fire and cold damage together. Rimefire is a thing, for example.

[Snowbluff]

Right off the top of my head: D&D takes place in a world where hot and cold are their own types of energy, rather than one being "too much of one energy" and the other "not enough of the same energy," and the two coming together would be more like "Fire (matter) + Ice (antimatter) = explosion" rather than "Fire (+heat) + Ice (-heat) = nothing."


Well, you want to grab Toxin and mix it with Electricity to make Corrosive, which works well against the Heavy Gunners and Ancients in the Void.

[AmberVael]

And its not even like you have to be dumb and design the weapon so the fire and ice cancel each other out. Why would you do that? Have one side radiate fire, the other ice. Have it be wreathed in an aura of flame, but the weapon itself freezing. Have it so the weapon basically absorbs heat- when you're hit with it its crazy hot, but the moment it moves away you're chilled because it took all the heat with it. This isn't even getting into the possibilities of wacky rimefire/coldfire/whatever cool weirdness you want.

[Thrice Dead Cat]

Well, you want to grab Toxin and mix it with Electricity to make Corrosive, which works well against the Heavy Gunners and Ancients in the Void.

I prefer 4x corrosive projection with toxic and cold damage on my weapons for the status effect. Maybe also have heat for the stun it can provide.

[Brookshw]

I prefer 4x corrosive projection with toxic and cold damage on my weapons for the status effect. Maybe also have heat for the stun it can provide.

This is a video game reference? :smallconfused:

[Snowbluff]

I prefer 4x corrosive projection with toxic and cold damage on my weapons for the status effect. Maybe also have heat for the stun it can provide.

I don't have it yet. The Energy Siphon has been helping me, since I use a lot of caster frames a lot. I'm like 60k rep from a Synoid Gammacor, so energy will stop being a problem. :smalltongue:

[Vhaidara]

This is a video game reference? :smallconfused:

Warframe. Which I'm actually glad to know some playgrounders also play. Roller Senpai ftw.

[Almarck]

Hey, wait, are you guys actually citing Warframe. I roll Viral damage myself. Gets through Corpus shields.

Anyways. As cool as it is to mix elements, it's probably not the smartest thing to in 3.5 or derivates. Point is, it's easy for monsters to get energy resist and over investing isn't practical depending on what you're fighting. The notion while cool and works on the material plane, once you get into outsiders with elemental resistances at 10 each, such a weapon becomes a liability.

Each damage procs against its resistance individually, leading to more reduced damage. As a result, it's usually a smart idea to have one element.

[Snowbluff]

Warframe. Which I'm actually glad to know some playgrounders also play. Roller Senpai ftw.

I have a nova prime. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TAyjB9oA04w)

[Thrice Dead Cat]

Almarck does bring up a solid point about the resistances. Just another reason why the collision and magebane enhancements are so much better.



I have a nova prime. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TAyjB9oA04w)

Snowbluff, if you weren't before, you definitely are now one of my favorite people. :smallbiggrin: Makes me miss the days of Vauban vortex air walking. At least Valkyr still has ripline, too.

[Troacctid]

https://img1.etsystatic.com/022/0/7550022/il_570xN.485440379_oy79.jpg

[The Random NPC]

Remember guys this is the burst enchantment, when you crit it explodes with the energy rather than just having the energy all the time.

[AmberVael]

Remember guys this is the burst enchantment, when you crit it explodes with the energy rather than just having the energy all the time.

You mean, when you crit it explodes with energy as well as having the energy all the time.

[The Random NPC]

You mean, when you crit it explodes with energy as well as having the energy all the time.

Right, forgot that.

[PaucaTerrorem]

Fluff it so the fire damage hits first, super heating the target, than the cold damage hits potentially shattering the target.

[LoyalPaladin]

Warframe. Which I'm actually glad to know some playgrounders also play. Roller Senpai ftw.
Warframe is a ton of fun. It'll be no surprise to you when I say I play Oberon.

As far as the topic goes, I bet our DM would not allow it.

[Vhaidara]

You know, I was handling it via PMs, but to avoid further Warframe derails, I'll just post this here.
Warframe in the Playground (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?398335-Warframe-In-the-Playground)

[jjcrpntr]

Not to mention the DM asking you how and why in the world the weapon does both Flaming and Icy...

It's a shocking frost fire sword bro!

[Oddman80]

[unessesary snark]

Not to mention the DM asking you how and why in the world the weapon does both Flaming and Icy...
Not to mention the DM asking your wizard how he thinks throwing a tiny ball of bat guano mixed with sulfur at someone while simply saying the word "fireball" would do anything other than make your wizard have to pay for the guy's dry-cleaning bill.


Of course. Inventing rationalizations is always easy. But I don't think that we are inventing what either ice or fire is. While there is a lot of fantasy involved, some basic ideas are already in place. "Fire" and "ice" have actual meanings.

If people want to play with arbitrary rules that change what fire is, then there is no reason why they shouldn't. But I play the game to try to get the feeling of classic fantasy, and fire is what it is, not something else.
Of course. Inventing rationalizations is always easy. But I don't think that we are inventing what either bat guano or sulfar is. While there is a lot of fantasy involved, some basic ideas are already in place. "bat guano" and "sulfur" have actual meanings.

If people want to play with arbitrary rules that change what stinky poop balls are, then there is no reason why they shouldn't. But I play the game to try to get the feeling of classic fantasy, and stinky poop balls are what they are, not something else.
[/unessesary snark]

[Necrovosh]

I'm actually working on a homebrew set of synergy "bursts" that do fun things with combo energy types, like psychokinetic+flame=splosions and cold+hot=steamblast. Most of them cause a secondary effect, like d6 dex damage on the hyper-conducting shock+frost, or paralysis for 1 round on the acid+sonic toxin surge. There's a lot of combos, though, and they still feel weak for anyone who isn't a crit fisher, but the party duskblade is probably looking forward to them (Thri-kreen multi-weapon crit-aholoic, looking forward to that level 13 massive damage spike.)

As for not allowing fire+frost, remember that each round is a six second interval. A lot of nasty things can happen in a six second period, even if each wound doesn't immediately have the full effect of the damage. Combat in D&D is already super abstract, and unless you have all cold spells countering and dispelling equal level fire spells, it's just an arbitrary nerf to the melee fighters of your party.