Acquiring the Dragon type.

[TheCrowing1432]

Looking over the half dragon template it mentions racial hit dice as a source of some of their abilities.

which means that standard races dont get much from half dragons.

Is there any optimal way to get the dragon type in order to qualify for the dragon feats in the Draconomicon that the standard races can acquire without eating racial hit dice?

[Aegis013]

The ever mired in debate Dragonwrought Kobold is Dragon type. It's the easiest way to obtain the type, and probably has the most potential for being optimized.

It eats a feat, but that's probably better than RHD or LA.

[Crake]

The ever mired in debate Dragonwrought Kobold is Dragon type. It's the easiest way to obtain the type, and probably has the most potential for being optimized.

It eats a feat, but that's probably better than RHD or LA.

worth noting to avoid confusion that the debate mentioned has nothing to do with this question. Dragonwrought kobolds are very clearly dragons in type, there is no arguing against this.

[M Placeholder]

worth noting to avoid confusion that the debate mentioned has nothing to do with this question. Dragonwrought kobolds are very clearly dragons in type, there is no arguing against this.

If youre playing as a melee combat styled class (fighter, barbarian), then Kobolds are a challenge, but for bards, sorcerers, rangers and clerics, then Kobold PC's have a lot to offer in 3.5 and Pathfinder. Check out Races of the Dragon.

In addition, there are several classes and races that can be played that have a lot to offer.

For another alternative, check out Dragon Magic. for more options. You can play as a Dragon descended as any of the standard races.

[Andezzar]

For another alternative, check out Dragon Magic. for more options. You can play as a Dragon descended as any of the standard races.You are probably thinking about Races of the Dragon. None of the dragon descended races in that book are of the dragon type. As far as I can tell here are no player suitable creatures in Dragon Magic.

[Greenish]

As far as I can tell here are no player suitable creatures in Dragon Magic.How are the silverbrow humans, fireblood dwarves, and the others not suitable for players? You're probably thinking of Draconomicon.

[Andezzar]

Woops I couldn't find them in the index. Still neither of those have the Dragon type.

[Bronk]

Looking over the half dragon template it mentions racial hit dice as a source of some of their abilities.

which means that standard races dont get much from half dragons.

Is there any optimal way to get the dragon type in order to qualify for the dragon feats in the Draconomicon that the standard races can acquire without eating racial hit dice?

Standard races get just as much out of the half-dragon template as anything else, because special abilities are keyed off of total HD per the Rules Compendium, not just racial HD.

Also, class levels on an already draconic race wouldn't have counted as racial levels, and you would have run into the same problem as with the half dragon anyway.

So.. you're good to go!

[Twurps]

Woops I couldn't find them in the index. Still neither of those have the Dragon type.

OP wanted to qualify for Dragon feats. Silverbrow human and the like do just that. Where dragonwrought kobold takes a 1 feat investment, silverbrow human nets you 1 bonusfeat, just like regular human.

[Andezzar]

Silverbrow Human and the other options only let you qualify for feats requiring the dragonblood subtype. They do not let you qualify for feats that require you to be a dragon (i.e. dragon type). Many of the Dragon Feats on p. 66-75 of the Draconomicon require the dragon type. Others can be taken without any connection to dragons. There are no feats there that require the dragonblood subtype. The feats designed for PCs in that book don't require the dragonblood subtype either.

[TheCrowing1432]

If youre playing as a melee combat styled class (fighter, barbarian), then Kobolds are a challenge, but for bards, sorcerers, rangers and clerics, then Kobold PC's have a lot to offer in 3.5 and Pathfinder. Check out Races of the Dragon.

In addition, there are several classes and races that can be played that have a lot to offer.

For another alternative, check out Dragon Magic. for more options. You can play as a Dragon descended as any of the standard races.

I was looking for the more melee styled class, I wanted to be a physical powerhouse using the dragons natural attacks, breath weapon and special abilities such as frightful presence.


How are the silverbrow humans, fireblood dwarves, and the others not suitable for players? You're probably thinking of Draconomicon.

Those are the Dragonblood subtype, they do not qualify for the feats in Draconomicon which specifically call out for the Dragon type.




Standard races get just as much out of the half-dragon template as anything else, because special abilities are keyed off of total HD per the Rules Compendium, not just racial HD.

Also, class levels on an already draconic race wouldn't have counted as racial levels, and you would have run into the same problem as with the half dragon anyway.

So.. you're good to go!

I read somewhere that non racial HD races dont get the Half Dragons breath weapon because they dont have racial hit dice.


OP wanted to qualify for Dragon feats. Silverbrow human and the like do just that. Where dragonwrought kobold takes a 1 feat investment, silverbrow human nets you 1 bonusfeat, just like regular human.

As above, those races arent actual Dragons.

[Andezzar]

I read somewhere that non racial HD races dont get the Half Dragons breath weapon because they dont have racial hit dice. That is not true. Every Half-Dragon gets the breath weapon, but the DC for the Reflex save is based on the creature's RHD. Without them the DC will be pretty low:
A half-dragon retains all the special attacks of the base creature and gains a breath weapon based on the dragon variety (see table), usable once per day. A half-dragon’s breath weapon deals 6d8 points of damage. A successful Reflex save (DC 10 + ½ half-dragon’s racial HD + half-dragon’s Con modifier) reduces damage by half.

[TheCrowing1432]

That is not true. Every Half-Dragon gets the breath weapon, but the DC for the Reflex save is based on the creature's RHD. Without them the DC will be pretty low:

hmm, better pump the con as high as i can then...

[Greenish]

Those are the Dragonblood subtype, they do not qualify for the feats in Draconomicon which specifically call out for the Dragon type.I didn't claim they did, I was just pointing out they're suitable for PCs.

[Bronk]

hmm, better pump the con as high as i can then...

Always a decent idea! But yeah, all racial abilities key off of total Hit Dice now, not just racial hit dice. The rule is in the Rules Compendium, under 'special abilities', on page 118.

[Glimbur]

I was looking for the more melee styled class, I wanted to be a physical powerhouse using the dragons natural attacks, breath weapon and special abilities such as frightful presence.

You can take a melee character into Dragon Disciple. Just dip a level of sorc (or maybe bard) and you're a spontaneous arcane caster. The +strength kind of makes up for the lost BAB, and you get that tasty dragon flavor. It's far from optimal, but it's not awful either.