Building a Shadow Monklock, need feedback

[JonIrenicus]

So I got it in my head a Monk warlock could be a good pairing if done right, and some of the tricks seem intriguing to me

Level 10
Human variant
Monk 6/ Warlock 4
Rolled stats:
Str 8
Dex 18
Wis 16
Con 10
Char 14
Shadow Monk/ Archfey pact
Pact blade

Feats:
Polearm Master
Sentinel
Alert

using quarter staff, classifies monk weapon so can use dex instead of str for attack, pairs nicely with those feats for locking enemies in place, plus will never be surprised

Invocations:
Devil Sight
Armor of Shadows

This lets's me see in darkness, magical or otherwise, and get 13+dex+wis AC thanks to the spell, unless i am wrong about that

I will be able to teleport in darkness, create darkness, and see through the darkness for some nice flair, plus teleport when hit once per long rest as reaction

any thoughts on what i should do differently, or combos i could be missing, i was hoping thirsting blade and extra attack stacked, but i understand that they dont, i will still have eldrict blast in case i need ranged

Overall it seems like a solid concept, will prolly go monk 14/warlock 6

[CyberThread]

Do you think your expending allot of resources for one trick?

[Easy_Lee]

If you go warlock 12 / monk 8, you can declare unarmed strike as your pact weapon and get CHA + DEX to as many as four attacks per turn, on top of having extra spell casting options, more invocations, and a longer lasting Hex. That's a bit of an endgame build, though, as it will be tricky along the way to make use of it. The best way to do it would be to take the warlock levels first, then start going up the monk class.

For monk 14/warlock 6, I suspect that more monk levels would be better. You're giving up stunning fist DC, higher wisdom saves and perception, more ki, and several useful features such as shadow monk 17, just for a shadowstep trick. The trick can probably be copied with some items anyway; see how your DM feels about dark vision goggles and smoke bombs.

Edit: I didn't even notice your bit about 13+dex+wis AC. As the others said, that's wrong. Would it make sense? Maybe, but it breaks bounded accuracy.

[Callin]

You are wrong about the AC. You have to pick either 13+Dex or 10+Dex+Wis. Formulas that make your AC dont stack you have to pick one to use.

[SharkForce]

armor of shadows doesn't add 3 to your AC, it sets your AC to 13 + dex. likewise, unarmored ability from monk doesn't give you +wis to AC, it just sets your AC to 10 + dex + wis.

you may use whichever one gives you a better result, but you don't get to combine them.

[JonIrenicus]

Do you think your expending allot of resources for one trick?
Maybe, but the goal to me, is since we will mostly be either underground or in darker places, to get to the ranged enemy asap, and keep them locked down, in darkness making them unable to attack effectively, imposing disadvantage on rolls, while the party takes care of the other mobs, as a bonus it seems like it would be fun, but until playtested, it's all theory


If you go warlock 12 / monk 8, you can declare unarmed strike as your pact weapon and get CHA + DEX to as many as four attacks per turn
this means the polearm/sentinel trick would go away and i rather like making sure my enemies cant get away, especially when they are surrounded by darkness


You are wrong about the AC
I had a feeling i was........damn :smallfrown:

[Easy_Lee]

this means the polearm/sentinel trick would go away and i rather like making sure my enemies cant get away, especially when they are surrounded by darkness

You mean the sentinel trick, right? Everyone gets an OA for targets trying to run away without disengaging first. Sentinel alone means disengage doesn't stop your OAs, and reduces the target's speed to zero if you hit with an OA.

The sentinel + polearm master trick is to gain a 10' OA against targets as they approach (polearm mastery plus polearm with reach), freezing them in their tracks before they get close enough to hit you (sentinel). It requires two feats, and probably isn't worth it on anyone but a dedicated fighter (single attribute dependence and bonus feats). It doesn't work at all on a Monk, since your polearm doesn't have reach.

So all you actually need for that is sentinel.

[JonIrenicus]

since your polearm doesn't have reach
I will need to check the handbook when i get home but since when does a quarterstaff not get reach? and in the pole arm feat at the start of the feat talks about capitalizing on your reach and lists quarterstaff as an applicable weapon.....so if it does not have reach that is plain dumb, but i should have checked that

[Easy_Lee]

I will need to check the handbook when i get home but since when does a quarterstaff not get reach? and in the pole arm feat at the start of the feat talks about capitalizing on your reach and lists quarterstaff as an applicable weapon.....so if it does not have reach that is plain dumb, but i should have checked that

Q-staff has gone through some changes since beta, but it does not have reach as of now (evidenced by the free pdf). That said, if you want to keep people inside a darkness spell, it's probably a better idea to keep your reach limited so foes have a smaller bubble in which to move around you.

In all honesty, the darkness trick is really only effective if your whole party is in on it. If everyone takes two levels of warlock for devil's sight, and multiple people have ways to cast darkness, then it becomes an effective strategy. Otherwise you're cutting off your allies' sight of the enemy, and really pissing off your melees.

An all drow warlock party could be fun.

[Joe the Rat]

Personally I'm just tickled at someone using the term Monklock. He should have a pet.

Going Q-staff doesn't kill the Polearm/Sentinel combo, but it does severely curtail your control range. In theory, you could bladepact a polearm, as your pact makes you proficient. Conduct your normal business with unarmed strikes (since you can martial arts/flurry from there), and only use your glaive for the reach on inbound opportunity attacks. But not with those stats.

[ArchangelAzrael]

Food for thought

If you start playing from lvl 1 multiclassing has more "cost". At lvl 1 to 5 multiclassing delays the interesting features of the monk as well as the extra attack. Level 6 of course is juicy for the shadow monk in particular. You also want level 2 warlock for devils sight to get the combo working. ( I am torn as to when i should get those 2 levels but i am leaning to after level 6).

If you plan to multiclass warlock Human variant for mobility is an interesting pick as the lack of darkvision gets covered by devil sight (but that gives you even more incentive to not delay going warlock 2)

For warlock since I assume you would have the minimum cha to multiclass, I only see the old one as good for a short dip. The temp HP, will be 3 from the fiend and as such not really worth it, and i don't like the archfey much either (saves dc would be bad). Besides devil sight I would pick the one that lets you change your appearance (flavorable and lets you use friends ( i think warlock can grab it) without too much trouble) or the one that gives you proficiency with persuasion and deception (away from books at then moment so apologies for any mistakes)

Lastly I would personally not go warlock 6 and just dip for 2 levels. Monk 18 has an awesome feature that might as well serve as a capstone. Shadow monks level 17 feature is not half bad either.

PS: Grable can be an effective way to keep the inside Darkness as well just don't dump str all that hard and have the appropriate skill proficiency.

[JonIrenicus]

If you plan to multiclass warlock Human variant for mobility is an interesting pick as the lack of darkvision gets covered by devil sight (but that gives you even more incentive to not delay going warlock 2)
This can be overcome by the shadow monk ability to grant yourself darkvision 60ft for 2 ki points until the devil sight is gained, so going monk 6 at first then bargaining for power from hell later to make myself more of a master of shadow


Lastly I would personally not go warlock 6 and just dip for 2 levels
The 6 levels was for the teleport reaction from Archfey pact, in the event a boss mob hits me through the darkness and has multiple attacks i can get out of the way, but it may be better for a 2 dip, but my DM might ask for a minimum 5 levels since i am selling my soul, from a contractual standpoint a minimum amount of corruption would seem legit


Q-staff has gone through some changes since beta, but it does not have reach as of now (evidenced by the free pdf). That said, if you want to keep people inside a darkness spell, it's probably a better idea to keep your reach limited so foes have a smaller bubble in which to move around you
You were right about the Q-staff, this originally upset me but this was some sound advice, and i want to thank you for your input, that will allow me to either put more into stats or look into other feats that might add to the flavor