View Full Version : D&D 5e/Next (PEACH) 5E Psion with Complete Power List

2015-02-12, 03:19 PM

I've been working on this for a while, and I thought it was ready to share.

This is using the Wizard class as a template.

2015-02-12, 03:45 PM
This is using the Wizard class as a template.

Just a random concern:

I'm not particularly well-versed on 5e, but I do know that the spells per day are kept intentionally low at the higher levels to avoid the sort of rocket-tag nova combat that 3.5 became full of. This class doesn't follow that design. Even assuming you keep the increasing cost from 3.5 (17 points for a 9th level power) I can still fire off seven of those if I care to, while the Wizard gets...is it one 9th level spell? Maybe 2?

Sure, he has other options...but my ability to hard-focus on the higher level effects will probably get overpowering.

2015-02-12, 04:05 PM
As written in the document, it follows the Spell Point tules in the 5E DMG. In those, you can't cast more than one spell each of levels 6-9 per Long Rest.

2015-02-12, 04:32 PM
As written in the document, it follows the Spell Point tules in the 5E DMG. In those, you can't cast more than one spell each of levels 6-9 per Long Rest.

Ah. My apologies. I must have overlooked that part.

2015-02-14, 01:47 PM
Anyone else have any thoughts?

2015-02-15, 01:17 PM
Wow. Thanks for doing all this, dude. I haven't had a chance to look at it in depth, but a few things stick out to me:

1) The egoist seems super unbalanced for a couple reasons. Nothing else in the game gives a flat +3 to AC, which kind of breaks bounded accuracy. At level 3 you can have a character with AC 23. Having this be a level 2 ability just makes for a semi-mandatory dip for almost all characters. (Also, just as a stylistic note: base AC doesn't exist in 5e. Everything sets your AC to a formula. Plate mail isn't +8 AC, it sets your AC to 18. Same with the barbarian class feature; it doesn't give +con to AC, it sets your AC to 10+dex+con.). I'd make this like the draconic sorcerer ability- your AC is 13+dex. Still strong, but not OP.

Also, Psychofeedback is ridiculously overpowered. If Thick Skin sort of breaks BA, this does away with it altogether. For 10 minutes you can either have such a high save DC that no character can make it or are a significantly better melee combatant than any actual melee class. Also devalues the barbarian capstone- he gets 24 Strength and Con at level 20, while you've been able to to have 25-30 strength and con since level 10. Limit it to increasing the score to 20.

2) Time pop has no explanation of what it does. What does "reset to the state it was in" mean? As written, it's basically up to the DM what it does.

3)Temporal shift seems too strong for an at-will ability- it's basically banishment but better. I'd limit it to once a short rest at least, if not once per long rest.

4) Mind probe seems to have no game effect. Again, it's basically a DM fiat ability. I'd have it do something concrete.

Overall, the class seems really cool- I'll look through the powers and stuff more when I have more time.

2015-02-15, 02:38 PM
Time Pop essentially resets a creature's health, status conditions, etc. to what it was up to one minute beforehand.

I edited Thickened Skin.

What character would have any stat above 12 that they wouldn't use? Plus, this requires concentration, and reducing any stat to dangerously low levels is the only way that this could be ridiculously overpowered. Plus, capping it at 20 completely diminishes almost any point to using this feature. I'll cap it at 26.

Temporal Shift is already only usable once per Long Rest.

2015-02-15, 04:21 PM
Wow, this is an insane amount of work. I'll have to browse through this soon. Looks great at first glance.

2015-02-16, 07:45 PM
Though I can't exactly comment on the mechanics, I think this class is a fantastic idea! Still can't believe Wizards didn't add a Psion to the PH line-up. Ah well, that's what us Playgrounders are here for :smallbiggrin:

Bovine Colonel
2015-02-16, 08:43 PM
Minor correction: the section on hit points (2nd page) says wizard instead of psion.

2015-06-16, 05:13 AM
Okay, so first let me agree with all the other posters that this is a phenomenal and really impressive amount of work and I'm kinda in awe at the sheer amount of powers you've converted here. I do have a few concerns: mainly, the disciplines just don't seem balanced between each other, in terms of some of the features they get and in the powers themselves.

Firstly, the PP discount for the favoured discipline definitely does more for some than for others. I've sat down and done a count of how many powers each discipline gets and there's overwhelmingly more choices for Telepaths, and Kineticists, and the distribution in any given level is even more unbalanced, though that's less of an issue since these guys use power points by default. This was the case in previous editions too, obviously, but the fact that there was a much greater surplus of powers written back then made this less of an issue.

I've quickly run some numbers on this, although I'm tired and this was done at haste, so errors may have occurred:

Talents: 0 clairsentience, 2 metacreativity, 3 psychokinesis, 1 psychometabolism, 3 psychoportation, 2 telepathy (11 total)
1st level: 4 clairsentience, 2 metacreativity, 1 psychokinesis, 1 psychometabolism, 0 psychoportation, 3 telepathy (11)
2nd level: 0 clairsentience, 1 metacreativity, 2 psychokinesis, 4 psychometabolism, 1 psychoportation, 5 telepathy (13)
3rd: 1 clairsentience, 1 metacreativity, 6 psychokinesis, 2 psychometabolism, 1 psychoportation, 1 telepathy (11 total, one double)
4th: 2 clairsentience, 1 metacreativity, 1 psychokinesis, 0 psychometabolism, 1 psychoportation, 3 telepathy (8 total)
5th: 0 clairsentience, 1 metacreativity, 1 psychokinesis, 1 psychometabolism, 0 psychoportation, 3 telepathy (6 total, one double)
6th: 1 clairsentience, 0 metacreativity, 0 psychokinesis, 3 psychometabolism, 3 psychoportation, 0 telelathy (7 total)
7th level: 2 clairsentience, 0 metacreativity, 2 psychokinesis, 1 psychometabolism, 2 psychoportation, 1 telepathy (8 total, one double type, one entry missing)
8th level: 0 clairsentience, 1 metacreativity, 0 psychokinesis, 3 psychometabolism, 0 psychoportation, 1 telepathy (4 total, one double type)
9th level: 1 clairsentience, 0 metacreativity, 0 psychokinesis, 1 psychometabolism, 0 psychoportation, 2 telepathy (4 total)
Overall: 11 clairsentience, 9 metacreativity, 16 psychokinesis, 17 psychometabolism, 11 psychoportation, 19 telepathy (83 total)

I'd strongly advise pilfering the existing spell list in order to enrich the available options a bit; for example, Nomads could benefit from the addition of Haste, Banishment, Plane Shift, etc, and these can pretty much be carried over in whole cloth. Egoists are notably missing anything like Metamorphosis, which could be balanced against existing Polymorph options or, if made a discipline feature like the Astral Construct, against the Druid's Wild Shape. Psychic Vampire seems too strong, especially if gained at level 6.

Secondly, there are a few individual powers in really not sure of. I love the fact that most of the kineticist blasts get additional control effects, but I think their damage could stand to be compared to spell options at the equivalent levels a bit more closely; these additional effects make them compare very favourably with most of the evoker's options, and I'd pick them even over something that did better damage as a result. I do plan to play my own homebrew kludge for a Psion based more closely on the Sorcerer chassis than your own, which seems to owe a lot to the wizard, and I'll be playing it alongside a traditional Evoker, so I'll have a good chance to take a better look at some of these in play.

Then there's some notable disparities between the Egoist healing spells. Body Adjustment is listed at 3rd level and heals 10d4 HP+2d4/augment, making it ridiculously better than any available healing spells; Cure Wounds comes in at 1d8 HP+stat+1d8/level. True Metabolism comes in at 8th and heals 5d6 HP+1d6 (avg 17.5 or 21) each round for a full minute and makes a mockery of Regeneration one level below it, which does 4d8 HP+15 (avg 33) once and then 1 HP/round for another 10 rounds plus regrowing limbs etc.

There's a few others where your Psion gets access to some effects earlier than his spellcasting equivalent. Some of this has always been a feature of the Psion compared to the wizard, which I like as a flavour contrast and think should be retained if possible, as long as this earlier access doesn't negatively impact the different balancing of 5e.

I think Temporal Acceleration is done well, as it scales up to Time Stop at the appropriate level; wiser heads than I can weigh in on whether being able to do those things at level 11 would break the game. I'm unsure about Moment of Prescience giving Foresight-lite two levels early but winding up lasting one hour as opposed to 8 when it is cast at 9th level.

Crystal Shard is a Talent that does less damage than Firebolt with 40ft less range and piercing as opposed to fire damage, but only if the target fails a Dex save? And then there's poor Aura Sight, which does what Detect Alignment did but three levels later, and I just want to hug it and tell it everything will be okay. I'd definitely make it more like Arcane Eye instead. Phase Shift was missing altogether, but judging by its name and its level seems to have been intended to correspond to Etherealness?

These are just my initial impressions, and I plan to look more closely as my own foray into 5e Psionics draws nearer, so I'll post additional thoughts and further analysis as I go on. I just want to close by saying that while this looks like it needs a lot of work to me, I am deeply impressed by the love and effort that's gone into it; there's very few pieces of homebrew this extensive out there this early in the game's lifecycle, and this particular one is nothing short of fantastic.

M Placeholder
2015-10-27, 05:01 PM
This is really impressive.

Two Questions -

1 - any chance of adding the other powers not converted from 3.5?
1 - any chance of a Pyschic Warrior or a Wilder class?

Thank you.

2015-11-02, 05:27 PM
I don't have plans to make a Psychic Warrior, but I already made a Wilder Sorc subclass that uses the Psionics rules I made for this.

Granted, I do like the direction WotC was going with the Mystic, but feel that it should be given a lot more of a "sharp" psychic feel instead of a "soft" psychic typical of standard fantasy.

Ilorin Lorati
2015-11-03, 02:30 PM
An easy psychic warrior would be to take Eldritch Knight and swap out the wizard spell list for this power list, then swap over to spell points by taking the value on page 289 of the DMG and dividing it by 3 to determine the EK's power points.

M Placeholder
2015-11-03, 05:03 PM
An easy psychic warrior would be to take Eldritch Knight and swap out the wizard spell list for this power list, then swap over to spell points by taking the value on page 289 of the DMG and dividing it by 3 to determine the EK's power points.

Thats exactly what I will do at the weekend, so I can present a Pyschic Warrior class to my players.

2015-11-03, 08:14 PM
You can make any edits to balancing you feel are needed and post them in any collections you might have.

Here's the Wilder: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?410394-Sorcerous-Origin-Wilder

2015-11-03, 10:33 PM
cool, cool, cool.