Intelligent Items

[LoyalPaladin]

Hey everyone,
I am playing a smite based Paladin right now and eventually I'll be picking up some pretty great loot. But I did have some questions about intelligent items.
I've had my eyes on the Iron Gauntlet of War (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Iron_Gauntlet_of_War) for a while, but it looks like I overlooked that is is Lawful Evil. Now, I've prestiged into Fist of Raziel. So I would think that by the class feature that I get that gives me a permanent magic circle against evil, I cannot be dominated. Can intelligent items withhold their bonuses? Is it possible to convince the item to change it's alignment through diplomacy rolls? It's got a decent intelligence, so I'd think it would be open to reason.

[GreatDane]

I don't believe item alignments can be changed; the item is created/imbued with its alignment and not prone to changing. Always ask your DM, though.

An intelligent item can withhold its abilities if it gains dominance over its wielder, which it does if the wielder fails a Will save (DC = item's ego). For the iron gauntlet of war, this Will save would have to be made by your character:

Once per day, when the item can try to reestablish dominance.
Whenever a major event (such as a battle or dangerous situation) occurs.
Any time your character disagrees with the item about its superiority over all people and things.



Other notes:

1) If you can't get the item's alignment changed, your character will be stuck with a negative level (no save) as long as you wield the item, even if you can resist its attempts to gain dominance.

2) Only somewhat related, but: what source is the iron gauntlet of war from? I don't know if it matters for your purposes whether the item is homebrew or not, but its source isn't noted on the page you linked, and DnDwiki is notoriously bad at differentiating between official and homebrew content.

[LoyalPaladin]

I don't believe item alignments can be changed; the item is created/imbued with its alignment and not prone to changing. Always ask your DM, though.

An intelligent item can withhold its abilities if it gains dominance over its wielder, which it does if the wielder fails a Will save (DC = item's ego). For the iron gauntlet of war, this Will save would have to be made by your character:

Once per day, when the item can try to reestablish dominance.
Whenever a major event (such as a battle or dangerous situation) occurs.
Any time your character disagrees with the item about its superiority over all people and things.


I've got Soulfire armor, so I believe I am immune to the negative level and with Fist of Raziel it cannot dominate me, so I am pretty safe. So I guess it will be serving Torm for the time being.


Only somewhat related, but: what source is the iron gauntlet of war from? I don't know if it matters for your purposes whether the item is homebrew or not, but its source isn't noted on the page you linked, and DnDwiki is notoriously bad at differentiating between official and homebrew content.
It looks like Thurbane posted (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=18693094) about it a little while ago... not sure where it came from. It says SRD on the wiki, but I know how reliable they can be there.

[torrasque666]

2) Only somewhat related, but: what source is the iron gauntlet of war from? I don't know if it matters for your purposes whether the item is homebrew or not, but its source isn't noted on the page you linked, and DnDwiki is notoriously bad at differentiating between official and homebrew content.
if you read the link at all, or the tags at the bottom, you'd note its from the srd(the epic artifacts section specifically).

Seriously, just because you guys don't want to take the 5 seconds to read either the links or the tags at the bottom does not mean that its bad at differentiating.

[LoyalPaladin]

Seriously, just because you guys don't want to take the 5 seconds to read either the links or the tags at the bottom does not mean that its bad at differentiating.
I saw that it said SRD, but unfortunately they don't site where it is from. I think D&DWiki's bad rep comes from that their Homebrew stuff is super easy to sift through, while they've made anything SRD hard to use at all. Their search function also increases difficulty between the two categories.

[torrasque666]

I saw that it said SRD, but unfortunately they don't site where it is from. I think D&DWiki's bad rep comes from that their Homebrew stuff is super easy to sift through, while they've made anything SRD hard to use at all. Their search function also increases difficulty between the two categories.
Then I must be a wizard because I never have problems with it. The simple fact that it lists it as being from the srd then means that if you want to know the exact​ location, you can go to the srd and look.

[LoyalPaladin]

Then I must be a wizard because I never have problems with it. The simple fact that it lists it as being from the srd then means that if you want to know the exact​ location, you can go to the srd and look.
I'm not exactly sure what all the salt is about, but this isn't a thread about whether D&DWiki is a good tool or not.

On topic, I'll look around to see if I can find out more about the Gauntlet. Since it is a singular gauntlet I will see if I can make a successful diplomacy roll with my DM to wear another singular gauntlet!

[GreatDane]

I'm not exactly sure what all the salt is about,
+1

I did find the gauntlet here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/magicItems/artifacts.htm#ironGauntletofWar).


Since it is a singular gauntlet I will see if I can make a successful diplomacy roll with my DM to wear another singular gauntlet!
Cool if you can, but it is RAW that each of the listed body slots can accommodate only a single active magic item (MIC 218).

While your Fist levels prevent the gauntlet from mentally dominating you, an intelligent item "gaining dominance" is something different. Intelligent magic items have a will of their own that they exert whenever the wielder's personality/interests conflict with their own. This conflict manifests as the Will save I talked about earlier. If the wielder fails, the magic item becomes the dominant party in their relationship as wielder+item, and can withhold its powers, activate them on its own, etc.

Normally a dominant intelligent item can also force the wielder to do things (remove other magic items, attack someone the item doesn't like), but since your Fist levels protect you from that kind of thing, the gauntlet will most likely just refuse to work for you or activate its powers at inopportune times.

[Karl Aegis]

Join us in the deep end of the alignment pool. It's just as warm and you can ruthlessly slaughter even more people than you already do.

[Khedrac]

And I would not count on the Soulfire enchantment protecting you from the negative level.

For a normal aligned item (eg holding an unholy weapon while good):
1. It's a penalty not a drain
2. It is not necessarily a negative energy effect

For the Gauntlet:
3. It's an artifact which means normal defences won't necessarily work
4. the SRD description (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/magicItems/artifacts.htm#ironGauntletofWar) makes no mention of a negative level...

[Bronk]

There are rules for redeeming evil magic items in the Book of Exalted Deeds, but I'd imagine you'd need your DM to be on board with that.

[LoyalPaladin]

Cool if you can, but it is RAW that each of the listed body slots can accommodate only a single active magic item (MIC 218).
That is unfortunate. I think we have a house rule about being double epic for such an instance.


Normally a dominant intelligent item can also force the wielder to do things (remove other magic items, attack someone the item doesn't like), but since your Fist levels protect you from that kind of thing, the gauntlet will most likely just refuse to work for you or activate its powers at inopportune times.
Great, the last thing I need is to walk into Baldur's Gate and have the thing implode the local ruler.


Join us in the deep end of the alignment pool. It's just as warm and you can ruthlessly slaughter even more people than you already do.
I'm afraid I cannot do that. But if you allow Torm to be your shepherd, I will gladly be the rod with which he guides you back to green pastures...



4. the SRD description (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/magicItems/artifacts.htm#ironGauntletofWar) makes no mention of a negative level...
Score one for the Paladin train I guess.


There are rules for redeeming evil magic items in the Book of Exalted Deeds, but I'd imagine you'd need your DM to be on board with that.
I was literally just reading that. It will come to serve Torm yet.

[Bronk]

That is unfortunate. I think we have a house rule about being double epic for such an instance.


There's also an epic feat called 'additional magic item space' that does that as well.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

First of all, the Iron Gauntlet of War is a major artifact (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/magicItems/artifacts.htm#majorArtifacts). Artifacts don't follow the standard rules that magic items do, specifically, "Evil artifacts, like most evil outsiders, are beyond redemption. The best option for a good character who discovers an evil artifact is to seek its destruction." For a Paladin to discover the Iron Gauntlet of War and not destroy it would almost certainly cause him to fall. Furthermore, Only one such item exists in the entire game world (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/artifacts.htm#majorArtifacts), and it's more than likely that an incredibly powerful (read: epic level) villain already possesses it.

Artifacts don't have a price tag, because you can never ever buy them. Artifacts are in the DMG, not the PHB, they are not available for PCs to peruse as though from a shopping catalog. It's extremely likely that your character has absolutely no idea that such an item even exists, so seeking to acquire it is nothing short of terrible metagaming. "Artifacts are extremely powerful. Rather than merely another form of magic equipment, they are the sorts of legendary relics that whole campaigns can be based on. Each could be the center of a whole set of adventures—a quest to recover it, a fight against a opponent wielding it, a mission to cause its destruction, and so on. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/artifacts.htm)" Basically, they only exist in the game world if the DM puts one in the game world as an adventure hook for a drawn out campaign. You don't just pick one up at the supermarket.

[LoyalPaladin]

There's also an epic feat called 'additional magic item space' that does that as well.
That would also do it.


First of all, the Iron Gauntlet of War is a major artifact (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/magicItems/artifacts.htm#majorArtifacts). Artifacts don't follow the standard rules that magic items do, specifically, "Evil artifacts, like most evil outsiders, are beyond redemption. The best option for a good character who discovers an evil artifact is to seek its destruction." For a Paladin to discover the Iron Gauntlet of War and not destroy it would almost certainly cause him to fall. Furthermore, Only one such item exists in the entire game world (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/artifacts.htm#majorArtifacts), and it's more than likely that an incredibly powerful (read: epic level) villain already possesses it.
This saddens me. If I mention it to my DM, it is always a slight possibility that we could run into it someday. We are going 1-30 currently, but as a super smite based Paladin this item screams "use me". I'd like nothing more than to redeem it. It could be the Iron Gauntlet of Tormly Might!


It's extremely likely that your character has absolutely no idea that such an item even exists, so seeking to acquire it is nothing short of terrible metagaming."
I do agree with this. I've just been eyeing this item for about four campaigns now and I finally can smite again, so its more of a want than a need. Sort of like you know you want to ride a bullette, but do you really need to?


You don't just pick one up at the supermarket.
Well we are on good terms with the multiverse trading company and they did say they could get us anything we want. For the right price.

[Vhaidara]

Artifacts are in the DMG, not the PHB, they are not available for PCs to peruse as though from a shopping catalog.

To be fair, a +1 longsword is in the DMG, not the Player's Handbook. So on that basis, the PCs shouldn't be able to buy one of those. Not disagreeing with your whole point, just this part of it.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

To be fair, a +1 longsword is in the DMG, not the Player's Handbook. So on that basis, the PCs shouldn't be able to buy one of those. Not disagreeing with your whole point, just this part of it.

That's true, but the sections about artifacts are worded as though speaking directly to the DM: "...these items should only enter a campaign through deliberate choice on your part (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/artifacts.htm)."

[Vhaidara]

That's true, but the sections about artifacts are worded as though speaking directly to the DM: "...these items should only enter a campaign through deliberate choice on your part (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/artifacts.htm)."

Like I said, I was just disagreeing that just because they were in the DMG instead of the PH that players should not have automatic access to them.