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Qc Storm
2015-02-12, 11:05 PM
I think it's common knowledge that Double Weapons are pretty bad. Although the ability to TWF or 2H at will is nice, it is hardly worth a feat. I've brainstormed a way to make them more appealing, and I'd like opinions.

First up, remove all current double weapons from the game. Except maybe the quarterstaff. No more Urgroshes, gnome hammers and dire flails.

Now only one weapon exists, Double Weapon itself. By taking Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Double Weapon), you are proficient with all double weapons you may come across.

You can make a double weapon by combining any 2 light or one-handed weapons together, keeping their special abilities and stats exclusive to each head. This can be done with the two chosen weapons, a relatively easy craft check and a few hours. You expertly manage the heft of each head onto a large shaft, making it wield-able by experts such as yourself.

Thus you could make a Morning Star/Longsword, or a Flail/Heavy Mace. You still need the relevant proficiency for each separate head, or suffer standard penalties. One side is always considered a light weapon (chosen while attacking).

At any time, using the same rules for creating a Double Weapon, you may replace one or both heads on your double weapon with another one. So if you currently own a Katana/Scimitar, but come across a really neat +1 Flaming Longsword, you can spend a few hours reworking your double weapon to replace the Scimitar head with the new, magical Longsword one. The scimitar is repaired back to its original form and can be used normally.

As an added bonus, Weapon Focus (Double Weapon) and similar feats now exists, and apply to both heads of a double weapon, no matter what they are.


So how is it? Players can make it silly, but remember that the Dire Flail is a genuine double weapon intended to be used in play, so arguments for realism don't hold much ground. A player willing to spend a feat on the proficiency would benefit from increased versatility. The choice of TWF, 2Handing, combining heads with interesting bonus abilities, and most of all, the ability to pick up all those magical weapons that are normally vendor trash, and put them to good use.

Vhaidara
2015-02-12, 11:54 PM
Sounds fun. I might mention this idea to one of my layers whose character just likes to tinker.

Oh, and you didn't actually mention the silliest double weapon: Arms and Equipment Guide's Gyrespike. Also known as "I'm attaching a flail to the back of my longsword"

Also, double ended kusarigama.

Fouredged Sword
2015-02-13, 11:42 AM
See, I think it would be cool to make it it's own spin on TWFing, something that blends the power of THFing with TWFing at the expense of feats and MAD. It would be a str/dex intensive build, but potentially interesting.

Double weapon Prof
Requires TWFing, BAB+1
- Reduce the penalty for TWFing while wielding both sides of a double weapon by 2.

Shifting Palms
Requires Double Weapon Prof, str 16, dex 16, bab +6
- You treat the primary end (the side not wielded as an offhand weapon) of a double weapon as a two handed weapon whenever it would benefit you.

Mirror Strike
Requires Double Weapon prof, Improved Uncanny Dodge
- When you are between a pair of opponents who would be flanking you but are prevented from doing so due to improved uncanny dodge, and you make an attack with your double weapon at one of the pair, you simultaneously gain a free extra attack aimed at the other. There is no cap on the number of free attacks you gain this way, except that you may not use then to qualify for additional attacks using this feat. These extra attacks are made at the same bonus as the original attack -5. You must make this attack with the opposite head you used to make the initial attack.

One blade, Four edges
Prerequisite - Double Weapon Prof, BAB +12, Shifting Palms
- You ignore the penalties to your attacks caused by two weapon fighting, even those caused by wielding a non-light weapon in your off hand. You treat all attacks with your double weapon as attacks with a two handed weapon whenever it would benefit you. (this does not prevent the penalties to iterative attacks caused by IMPROVED TWFing or such feats, just the initial penalty caused by TWFing)

Qc Storm
2015-02-13, 02:42 PM
See, I think it would be cool to make it it's own spin on TWFing, something that blends the power of THFing with TWFing at the expense of feats and MAD. It would be a str/dex intensive build, but potentially interesting.

Double weapon Prof
Requires TWFing, BAB+1
- Reduce the penalty for TWFing while wielding both sides of a double weapon by 2.

Shifting Palms
Requires Double Weapon Prof, str 16, dex 16, bab +6
- You treat the primary end (the side not wielded as an offhand weapon) of a double weapon as a two handed weapon whenever it would benefit you.

Mirror Strike
Requires Double Weapon prof, Improved Uncanny Dodge
- When you are between a pair of opponents who would be flanking you but are prevented from doing so due to improved uncanny dodge, and you make an attack with your double weapon at one of the pair, you simultaneously gain a free extra attack aimed at the other. There is no cap on the number of free attacks you gain this way, except that you may not use then to qualify for additional attacks using this feat. These extra attacks are made at the same bonus as the original attack -5. You must make this attack with the opposite head you used to make the initial attack.

One blade, Four edges
Prerequisite - Double Weapon Prof, BAB +12, Shifting Palms
- You ignore the penalties to your attacks caused by two weapon fighting, even those caused by wielding a non-light weapon in your off hand. You treat all attacks with your double weapon as attacks with a two handed weapon whenever it would benefit you. (this does not prevent the penalties to iterative attacks caused by IMPROVED TWFing or such feats, just the initial penalty caused by TWFing)


I like those.

I was also thinking about Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Extreme Double Weapon), with STR and Double Weapon prof as prereqs, allowing you to stick 2Handed weapons on a double weapon. Yet still making them count as one-handed/light for TWF purposes. Don't know how it would work with reach weapons, but combinations would get pretty intense. Probably a bit too extreme. That's like Dynasty Warriors tier.

It's just a thought out there.

Glorius Nippon
2015-02-13, 04:17 PM
Not only is it far more viable to use a double weapon, it's also more hilarious

"So I'm going to full attack using both ends of my double flail."

Greenish
2015-02-13, 04:28 PM
Not only is it far more viable to use a double weapon, it's also more hilarious

"So I'm going to full attack using both ends of my double flail."I don't see how double flail is any more hilarious than a dire flail (given they're the same thing).


[Edit]: Gaining proficiency with any weapon by gluing two of them together should come in handy. I kinda want to see a double kusari-gama.

PaucaTerrorem
2015-02-13, 05:59 PM
The 2 headed spiked chain? Can that be a thing?