[D&D 3.5] Questions on holding the charge on touch attack spells.

[ShadowfireOmega]

I was re-reading the rules on spells and touch attacks, and I must say I came out more confused than when I went in.

Please tell me if this is correct:

1. A spellcaster making a touch attack against an opponent that misses looses the spell.
2. A spellcaster can hold the charge of a touch spell indefinitely.
3. If a spellcaster touches anything with the hand they are holding the charge, the spell acts upon whatever was touched, if applicable, either way spell is discharged and lost.
4. A spellcaster can make an unarmed attack with the hand with the normal rules for an unarmed attack, and if they hit they deal damage as normal and add the spells effect, if the attack misses the charge is still held.

Now assuming the above four are correct are the following correct or incorrect?

5. A spellcaster who misses their opponents full AC but hits their touch AC DOES NOT apply the spell and gets to keep the charge.
6. A spellcaster who tries to touch their opponent but does not looses the charge.

If I have 5 correct, does that not contradict with 3?

[Ogh_the_Second]

The SRD says:


Touch Spells and Holding the Charge
In most cases, if you don’t discharge a touch spell on the round you cast it, you can hold the charge (postpone the discharge of the spell) indefinitely. You can make touch attacks round after round. If you cast another spell, the touch spell dissipates.

So, it seems your premise #1 is incorrect - if the caster misses his touch attack, he can choose to hold the charge.
Premise #2 is correct.
Premise #3 I cannot find, but it may be in the PHB somewhere?
Premise #4 is correct.

So, it's rather simple, really. If you cast a touch spell (disregarding the multiple-targets variant for now), you may try to make it land on a target with:
(a) a touch attack or
(b) an unarmed strike (or (c) a natural attack, I guess?)
time after time, until:
(1) you hit,
(2) you decide to no longer hold the charge, for whatever reason, or
(3) you cast any other spell.

[Rijan_Sai]

Touch Spells in Combat
Many spells have a range of touch. To use these spells, you cast the spell and then touch the subject, either in the same round or any time later. In the same round that you cast the spell, you may also touch (or attempt to touch) the target. You may take your move before casting the spell, after touching the target, or between casting the spell and touching the target. You can automatically touch one friend or use the spell on yourself, but to touch an opponent, you must succeed on an attack roll.

Touch Attacks
Touching an opponent with a touch spell is considered to be an armed attack and therefore does not provoke attacks of opportunity. However, the act of casting a spell does provoke an attack of opportunity. Touch attacks come in two types: melee touch attacks and ranged touch attacks. You can score critical hits with either type of attack. Your opponent’s AC against a touch attack does not include any armor bonus, shield bonus, or natural armor bonus. His size modifier, Dexterity modifier, and deflection bonus (if any) all apply normally.

Holding the Charge
If you don’t discharge the spell in the round when you cast the spell, you can hold the discharge of the spell (hold the charge) indefinitely. You can continue to make touch attacks round after round. You can touch one friend as a standard action or up to six friends as a full-round action. If you touch anything or anyone while holding a charge, even unintentionally, the spell discharges. If you cast another spell, the touch spell dissipates. Alternatively, you may make a normal unarmed attack (or an attack with a natural weapon) while holding a charge. In this case, you aren’t considered armed and you provoke attacks of opportunity as normal for the attack. (If your unarmed attack or natural weapon attack doesn’t provoke attacks of opportunity, neither does this attack.) If the attack hits, you deal normal damage for your unarmed attack or natural weapon and the spell discharges. If the attack misses, you are still holding the charge.


Regarding premises 3 & 4.
The two bolded parts above address those directly:
#3 is correct, "If you touch anything or anyone while holding a charge, even unintentionally, the spell discharges."
#4 is incorrect; you are considered armed while holding a touch spell, and follow the rules for armed combat. You are mearly striking at the Touch AC of the target, rather then the full AC.

[ShadowfireOmega]

4. A spellcaster can make an unarmed attack with the hand with the normal rules for an unarmed attack, and if they hit they deal damage as normal and add the spells effect, if the attack misses the charge is still held.


Alternatively, you may make a normal unarmed attack (or an attack with a natural weapon) while holding a charge. In this case, you aren’t considered armed and you provoke attacks of opportunity as normal for the attack. (If your unarmed attack or natural weapon attack doesn’t provoke attacks of opportunity, neither does this attack.) If the attack hits, you deal normal damage for your unarmed attack or natural weapon and the spell discharges. If the attack misses, you are still holding the charge.

This is what I was referring to.

[Khedrac]

5. A spellcaster who misses their opponents full AC but hits their touch AC DOES NOT apply the spell and gets to keep the charge.
6. A spellcaster who tries to touch their opponent but does not looses the charge.

If I have 5 correct, does that not contradict with 3?

5 is correct.
6 is incorrect - nothing has been touched.

5 does not contradict with 3 because hitting/missing with an attack is not related to actually touching an opponent. Depending on which fluff is being applied one can take an opponent down from 100hp to 10hp by melee without ever touching them - instead they are being worn down with near misses etc.

So neither attacking and hitting nor attacking and missing actually implies touching the opponent (even if using a poison bite and successfully -failed save - delivering the poison, but let's not go there).