Martial training I for a gunslinger

[Halflens]

Hey, i got a doubt that needs to be cleared:

As the title says: is good for a gunslinger to take martial training I (from PoW) at 3rd level?

I mean, I saw Phantom Sun Stance and it's like a second Rapid Reload, but better. No more worries for alchemical cartridges, no increased misfire, no need for ammo AND another maneuver (been playing a pistolero, so I would probably go for the range increment or the extra d6 of fire damage)

Is it worth?

[ghanjrho]

Yes, you qualify. MT1 only requires a +3 BAB OR 3 ranks in knowledge(martial)

However, you don't pick up a stance until MT2.

[Halflens]

Damn, you're right. Well, can a progression like this be viable?

Human gunslinger

lvl 1: point blank shot, rapid reload
lvl 3: martial training I (steady hand, curving ray shot/solar sting)
lvl 4: deadly shot/rapid shot
lvl 5: martial training II (phantom sun stance, solar lance)

[Callin]

It will take 3 feats for you to be able to use that stance with a Gun, because guns are not on the list for weapons usable by that discipline. So Martial Power 1, and 2, and then the one that lets you use Guns with it. (my bad thats just for the Maneuvers) Just does not seem worth it and ALSO it only gives you mundane regular shot. No Alchemical or anything like that.

"Magical properties, alchemical properties, or special materials of the ammunition are not copied, only the base properties of the ammunition (as if they were made of mundane steel with no special abilities or properties)."

[stack]

Phantom sun only gets you to swift action reloading anyhow, so I'm not sure its worth it most of the time. Could work if you focus on strikes so don't need to worry about rapid shot and getting free action reloads. You'd still be able to load as a move as well, free up swifts for boosts and counters.

Am I the only one that thinks it is odd that swifts are more valuable to an initiator than moves in many cases?

[Red Fel]

Am I the only one that thinks it is odd that swifts are more valuable to an initiator than moves in many cases?

It's not odd. In terms of the action economy alone, a swift action is often more valuable. First off, if you have no mechanics that make use of a swift action, that's a wasted opportunity (although PF was better about more swift action options, I think); swift action maneuvers give you not only an option, but multiple options. By contrast, you always have an option for your move action; that's never going to waste. Second, using a swift still leaves you with your move and standard actions. Want to move and attack? You can. Full attack? You can. A move action, as opposed to a swift, limits your options - all you have left is your standard, which you're probably going to use to attack, use a maneuver, or cast a spell.

In terms of the action economy alone, swifts are more valuable. In terms of the benefits of specific swift action maneuvers... Well, that varies.

[stack]

I was specifically thinking about a number of builds that don't much care for using their move actions unless they need to actually move (which is seldom for some, such as archers), which makes their move actions 'meh, flush that one', though your analysis is solid.

[Halflens]

It will take 3 feats for you to be able to use that stance with a Gun, because guns are not on the list for weapons usable by that discipline. So Martial Power 1, and 2, and then the one that lets you use Guns with it. (my bad thats just for the Maneuvers)

But aren't maneuvers usable with firearms too? It says: "All maneuvers of this discipline require the use of a weapon in these groups or the firearms weapon group."


Just does not seem worth it and ALSO it only gives you mundane regular shot. No Alchemical or anything like that.

"Magical properties, alchemical properties, or special materials of the ammunition are not copied, only the base properties of the ammunition (as if they were made of mundane steel with no special abilities or properties)."

That is true. Soooooo I can't hope to stack the stance and the paper cartridges to make the reload a free action. Still, I can reload as a swift action and the cartridges do not increase the misfire value. Also I do not have to spend 1gp per cartridge for reloading as a swift action.

[stack]

You can use firearms with solar wind maneuvers. There was some confusion about this at some point, but I believe the final word is that firearms are supposed to be valid.