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Tindragon
2015-02-13, 09:43 PM
So, this is the full description and everything of a race I am working on for my current homebrew. It's something the PCs are gonna be intro'd to next session.

I am thinking LA +3 with a CR of HD +2. It's something akin to a half giant/Mul idea I'd been tossing around for sometime. Any who here it is, any help/reason for adjusting LA and CR figures would be appreciated. Thanks

Gigoth
Draconic lore speaks of some arcane lords of some long lost empire who bred giants with humans and infused those offspring with frighteningly hardy hides, in an attempt to create the perfect slave warrior race. The lost empire of a past age fell to the dragon high-lords who came and coveted their lands and treasure. This slave race then hunted to near extinction and driven into hiding. With so very few of them left, and not accepted by the new draconic masters, they hid, and ran, and hid in far and wide lands. For thousands of years they clung to a pitiful existence living in fear. Some say a leader rose among them eventually, some say a cloud giant wizard came upon them and took interest. But either way, for the last few centuries they have taken up self governance without fear in far lands where no dragon high-lords reside. Where giants still rule, and have carved a place in that land all their own.

Personality: Gigoths are typically brutish and dull. They have no artistic culture outside their own tattoos, most of which hold some personal meaning, and those who are fortunate enough to find a caster of proper skill, are even magically enchanted, and all gigoths covet those magical tattoos.

Physical Description: A gigoth is medium sized, yet powerfully built, lean and tone. Standing 6'6” to 7' high, weighing 270 to 350 lbs both males and females strike an imposing figure of solid muscle (females can be just as tall as the males, and only slightly lighter). They prefer form fitted clothing, that is functional and sparse. Showing their physique and displaying all manner tribal designed tattoos of all colors and sorts, some prefer tattoos with meaning, broken chains, blades, and hammers shattering shields that tell the story of the triumphs of that gigoth. Gigoths Mature at about 20 years of age, and can live to be about 150 years old.

Alignment: Gigoths are a fiercely independent lot, they recognize the need for some structure as it relates to the good of their collective race and continued survival, but only the strongest and bravest should lead, and that leader should be challenged anytime he or she shows weakness or causes the tribe to suffer any loss. The strong wills and oral history of slavery and near extinction drive them toward Neutral or Chaotic as individuals, but overall most will follow the strongest faithfully, till he must be challenged and cast down. Good and evil hold sway as with humans.

Lands: Gigoth have no kingdom, instead many tribes have taken up a migratory pattern following animal prey, deer, elk, bison or whatever is plentiful. Some, live in mountains, in complex, shallow cave systems, raiding and trading. Most of these are in primarily giant controlled lands, and usually pay some sort of tribute to the ruling power of giants.

Magic: Gigoths have a distrust of arcane magic, with the exception of tattoo magic, and their creators. Gigoths with pay handsomely for these magical tattoos to give them more power. Over the last few thousands years, the mental toughness of the gigoths have gown as their independence has, and they resist mental intrusions very well. Gigoth wizards are very rare, but not unheard of, those who can get the training, do so in the pursuit of being a magic tattoo crafter, with other things secondary. Sorcerers, bards and the like are nearly unheard of.

Psionics: Although not unheard of, gigoths typically do not have the mental capacity of such disciplines, the few who do tend to be psi warriors.

Religion: Gigoths prefer to worship Kord. Some even credit Kord as the savior of their race, and adopted benefactor. Worship of Hextor is less common, but is favored by evil gigoths. To a lesser degree some venerate lesser giant deities, and then other deities even less.

Names: Gigoths are given names at birth in a Nordic manner, like Hrof Helfson, but upon maturity and becoming warriors in their own right, will then add descriptive titles, such as trollbane, or shield breaker, and will continue to ad to these as they gain in standing. It's not unheard of for an elder gigoth who has survived many battles and campaigns or adventures to need a few minutes to introduce himself formally when the need arises.

Classes and feats: Although gigoths seem a perfect fit for barbarian, they prefer to train in combat, and fight in units. Barbarians are not uncommon, but fighter is typically preferred on the whole, and young gigoths, both male and female, usually begin some form of martial training in a strict regiment by age 9. Rangers are typically more common than barbarians, and almost all take favored enemy dragon and usually hold a higher place in the tribe, but rarely take primary leadership, except in very harsh or lean circumstances. Monks are an anomaly to be sure. Sorcerers, bards, favored souls, warlocks and the like are nearly unheard of. True Clerics are also rare, with Druids being more a fit for gigoths tribal society. A gigoth Paladin is a true rare thing indeed, rivaling sorcerer for rarity. Rogues are uncommon, and typically masquerade as warriors. Gigoths prefer martial PrCs that give them and their tribe any edge in their battle to survive. Gigoths prefer mobility and maneuverability in combat, doing their best to train feats that allow for that with their larger weapons, preferring focus and specialization in over sized great axes, great swords, mauls, long spears, and even pole-arms. One mountain tribe has developed a great 2 handed war pick that it's best warriors have used to great effect defending their mountain territory!

+6 Str, +4 Con, -2 Int, -2 Wis, -4 Chr
Medium Giant
Base speed 40
Low Light Vision

Powerful Build:EX The physical stature of gigoths lets them function in many ways as if they were one size category larger. Whenever a gigoth is subject to a*size modifier*or special size modifier for an opposed check (such as during*grapple checks,*bull rush*attempts, and*trip*attempts), the gigoth is treated as one size larger if doing so is advantageous to him. A gigoth is also considered to be one size larger when determining whether a creature’s special attacks based on size (such as*improved grab*or*swallow whole) can affect him. A gigoth can use weapons designed for a creature one size larger without penalty. However, his space and reach remain those of a creature of his actual size. The benefits of this racial trait stack with the effects of powers, abilities, and spells that change the subject’s size category.

Thick Hide:EX Gigoths start with +4 to AC, this is a natural armor bonus from their extremely thick hides. This bonus increases as they increase HD. They receive another +1 bonus at every even HD (2,4,6 etc...). Due to their ever thickening hide, Gigoths begin play able to wear only light armor of a non metallic type. Once they reach a total of +6 bonus to AC from thickening hide, they may no longer wear any armor of any type. Special: Thick Hide stacks with magical bonuses that add to natural armor. Due to this many Gigoths covet amulets of natural armor.

Iron Hide:EX When a Gigoth reaches 12 HD his hide has become so tough, thickened and hardened from years of battle, scarring and re healing, that Gigoths gain DR 1/Adamantine, this increases by 1 every time the Hide thickens further. Upon reaching this point a gigoths skin is also able to be enchanted like magical armor via tattoo magic. Any caster with the creation feat Craft: Magic Tattoo and Craft: Magic Arms and Armor may spend the appropriate costs for the desired enchantment bonus on special inks and salves, then take the ½ the normal time to craft in preparing them, and 1 day per +1 applying them. In a similar manner, all kinds of armor enchantments are possible on an Iron Hide gigoth. There is a draw back from this however, curative spells, magical healing and potions of all kind are reduced in effectiveness by 50%, when a Gigoth reaches 16 HD it is further reduced to only 25%, and at 20HD it is reduced to only 10%, with a possibility of lesser curatives having no beneficial affect at all.

Tireless:EX Gigoths get a +4 racial bonus to checks for performing a physical action that extends over a period of time (running, swimming, holding breath, and so on). This bonus stacks with the Endurance feat. This bonus may also be applied to savings throws against spells and magical effects that cause weakness, fatigue, exhaustion or enfeeblement
Nonlethal Damage Resistance 3/–. Gigoths are difficult to subdue, and do not notice minor bruises, scrapes, and other discomforts that pain creatures of other races, this is increased to 5/- at 9HD, and to 10/- at 15 HD

+2 racial bonus on*saving throws*against spells and*spell-like*effects, this bonus is +4 for any enchantment, charm, or mind affect.

Automatic Languages: Common, Giant Bonus Languages: Orc, Goblin

Favored Class: Fighter


Gigoth Long Pick (large two handed exotic reach weapon)
Two handed Melee Weapon
Gigoth Long Pick

Exotic Weapon
Cost 80
Dmg (L) 3d6
Critical x4
Range Increment -
Weight1 24 lbs (Large)
Type2 Piercing

A reach weapon is a melee weapon that allows its wielder to strike at targets that aren’t adjacent to him or her. Most reach weapons double the wielder’s natural reach, meaning that a typical Small or Medium wielder of such a weapon can attack a creature 10 feet away, but not a creature in an adjacent square. A typical Large character wielding a reach weapon of the appropriate size can attack a creature 15 or 20 feet away, but not adjacent creatures or creatures up to 10 feet away.
Special {A gigoth proficient using a large gigoth long pick falls under the large category of reach in spite of it's Powerful Build EX reach rule}

Karl Aegis
2015-02-13, 09:48 PM
Probably only a +1 Level adjustment due to powerful build and base 40 movement speed.

Hazrond
2015-02-13, 10:07 PM
So, this is the full description and everything of a race I am working on for my current homebrew. It's something the PCs are gonna be intro'd to next session.

I am thinking LA +3 with a CR of HD +2. It's something akin to a half giant/Mul idea I'd been tossing around for sometime. Any who here it is, any help/reason for adjusting LA and CR figures would be appreciated. Thanks

Gigoth
Draconic lore speaks of some arcane lords of some long lost empire who bred giants with humans and infused those offspring with frighteningly hardy hides, in an attempt to create the perfect slave warrior race. The lost empire of a past age fell to the dragon high-lords who came and coveted their lands and treasure. This slave race then hunted to near extinction and driven into hiding. With so very few of them left, and not accepted by the new draconic masters, they hid, and ran, and hid in far and wide lands. For thousands of years they clung to a pitiful existence living in fear. Some say a leader rose among them eventually, some say a cloud giant wizard came upon them and took interest. But either way, for the last few centuries they have taken up self governance without fear in far lands where no dragon high-lords reside. Where giants still rule, and have carved a place in that land all their own.

Personality: Gigoths are typically brutish and dull. They have no artistic culture outside their own tattoos, most of which hold some personal meaning, and those who are fortunate enough to find a caster of proper skill, are even magically enchanted, and all gigoths covet those magical tattoos.

Physical Description: A gigoth is medium sized, yet powerfully built, lean and tone. Standing 6'6” to 7' high, weighing 270 to 350 lbs both males and females strike an imposing figure of solid muscle (females can be just as tall as the males, and only slightly lighter). They prefer form fitted clothing, that is functional and sparse. Showing their physique and displaying all manner tribal designed tattoos of all colors and sorts, some prefer tattoos with meaning, broken chains, blades, and hammers shattering shields that tell the story of the triumphs of that gigoth. Gigoths Mature at about 20 years of age, and can live to be about 150 years old.

Alignment: Gigoths are a fiercely independent lot, they recognize the need for some structure as it relates to the good of their collective race and continued survival, but only the strongest and bravest should lead, and that leader should be challenged anytime he or she shows weakness or causes the tribe to suffer any loss. The strong wills and oral history of slavery and near extinction drive them toward Neutral or Chaotic as individuals, but overall most will follow the strongest faithfully, till he must be challenged and cast down. Good and evil hold sway as with humans.

Lands: Gigoth have no kingdom, instead many tribes have taken up a migratory pattern following animal prey, deer, elk, bison or whatever is plentiful. Some, live in mountains, in complex, shallow cave systems, raiding and trading. Most of these are in primarily giant controlled lands, and usually pay some sort of tribute to the ruling power of giants.

Magic: Gigoths have a distrust of arcane magic, with the exception of tattoo magic, and their creators. Gigoths with pay handsomely for these magical tattoos to give them more power. Over the last few thousands years, the mental toughness of the gigoths have gown as their independence has, and they resist mental intrusions very well. Gigoth wizards are very rare, but not unheard of, those who can get the training, do so in the pursuit of being a magic tattoo crafter, with other things secondary. Sorcerers, bards and the like are nearly unheard of.

Psionics: Although not unheard of, gigoths typically do not have the mental capacity of such disciplines, the few who do tend to be psi warriors.

Religion: Gigoths prefer to worship Kord. Some even credit Kord as the savior of their race, and adopted benefactor. Worship of Hextor is less common, but is favored by evil gigoths. To a lesser degree some venerate lesser giant deities, and then other deities even less.

Names: Gigoths are given names at birth in a Nordic manner, like Hrof Helfson, but upon maturity and becoming warriors in their own right, will then add descriptive titles, such as trollbane, or shield breaker, and will continue to ad to these as they gain in standing. It's not unheard of for an elder gigoth who has survived many battles and campaigns or adventures to need a few minutes to introduce himself formally when the need arises.

Classes and feats: Although gigoths seem a perfect fit for barbarian, they prefer to train in combat, and fight in units. Barbarians are not uncommon, but fighter is typically preferred on the whole, and young gigoths, both male and female, usually begin some form of martial training in a strict regiment by age 9. Rangers are typically more common than barbarians, and almost all take favored enemy dragon and usually hold a higher place in the tribe, but rarely take primary leadership, except in very harsh or lean circumstances. Monks are an anomaly to be sure. Sorcerers, bards, favored souls, warlocks and the like are nearly unheard of. True Clerics are also rare, with Druids being more a fit for gigoths tribal society. A gigoth Paladin is a true rare thing indeed, rivaling sorcerer for rarity. Rogues are uncommon, and typically masquerade as warriors. Gigoths prefer martial PrCs that give them and their tribe any edge in their battle to survive. Gigoths prefer mobility and maneuverability in combat, doing their best to train feats that allow for that with their larger weapons, preferring focus and specialization in over sized great axes, great swords, mauls, long spears, and even pole-arms. One mountain tribe has developed a great 2 handed war pick that it's best warriors have used to great effect defending their mountain territory!

+6 Str, +4 Con, -2 Int, -2 Wis, -4 Chr
Medium Giant
Base speed 40
Low Light Vision

Powerful Build:EX The physical stature of gigoths lets them function in many ways as if they were one size category larger. Whenever a gigoth is subject to a*size modifier*or special size modifier for an opposed check (such as during*grapple checks,*bull rush*attempts, and*trip*attempts), the gigoth is treated as one size larger if doing so is advantageous to him. A gigoth is also considered to be one size larger when determining whether a creature’s special attacks based on size (such as*improved grab*or*swallow whole) can affect him. A gigoth can use weapons designed for a creature one size larger without penalty. However, his space and reach remain those of a creature of his actual size. The benefits of this racial trait stack with the effects of powers, abilities, and spells that change the subject’s size category.

Thick Hide:EX Gigoths start with +4 to AC, this is a natural armor bonus from their extremely thick hides. This bonus increases as they increase HD. They receive another +1 bonus at every even HD (2,4,6 etc...). Due to their ever thickening hide, Gigoths begin play able to wear only light armor of a non metallic type. Once they reach a total of +6 bonus to AC from thickening hide, they may no longer wear any armor of any type. Special: Thick Hide stacks with magical bonuses that add to natural armor. Due to this many Gigoths covet amulets of natural armor.

Iron Hide:EX When a Gigoth reaches 12 HD his hide has become so tough, thickened and hardened from years of battle, scarring and re healing, that Gigoths gain DR 1/Adamantine, this increases by 1 every time the Hide thickens further. Upon reaching this point a gigoths skin is also able to be enchanted like magical armor via tattoo magic. Any caster with the creation feat Craft: Magic Tattoo and Craft: Magic Arms and Armor may spend the appropriate costs for the desired enchantment bonus on special inks and salves, then take the ½ the normal time to craft in preparing them, and 1 day per +1 applying them. In a similar manner, all kinds of armor enchantments are possible on an Iron Hide gigoth. There is a draw back from this however, curative spells, magical healing and potions of all kind are reduced in effectiveness by 50%, when a Gigoth reaches 16 HD it is further reduced to only 25%, and at 20HD it is reduced to only 10%, with a possibility of lesser curatives having no beneficial affect at all.

Tireless:EX Gigoths get a +4 racial bonus to checks for performing a physical action that extends over a period of time (running, swimming, holding breath, and so on). This bonus stacks with the Endurance feat. This bonus may also be applied to savings throws against spells and magical effects that cause weakness, fatigue, exhaustion or enfeeblement
Nonlethal Damage Resistance 3/–. Gigoths are difficult to subdue, and do not notice minor bruises, scrapes, and other discomforts that pain creatures of other races, this is increased to 5/- at 9HD, and to 10/- at 15 HD

+2 racial bonus on*saving throws*against spells and*spell-like*effects, this bonus is +4 for any enchantment, charm, or mind affect.

Automatic Languages: Common, Giant Bonus Languages: Orc, Goblin

Favored Class: Fighter


Gigoth Long Pick (large two handed exotic reach weapon)
Two handed Melee Weapon
Gigoth Long Pick

Exotic Weapon
Cost 80
Dmg (L) 3d6
Critical x4
Range Increment -
Weight1 24 lbs (Large)
Type2 Piercing

A reach weapon is a melee weapon that allows its wielder to strike at targets that aren’t adjacent to him or her. Most reach weapons double the wielder’s natural reach, meaning that a typical Small or Medium wielder of such a weapon can attack a creature 10 feet away, but not a creature in an adjacent square. A typical Large character wielding a reach weapon of the appropriate size can attack a creature 15 or 20 feet away, but not adjacent creatures or creatures up to 10 feet away.
Special {A gigoth proficient using a large gigoth long pick falls under the large category of reach in spite of it's Powerful Build EX reach rule}

i am just going to mention that the "reduced healing" stipulation in the Iron Hide ability is TERRIBLE, it makes this practically as bad as a warforged only they at least gain the abilityy to heal normally from make whole and such, also, i am having a hard time understanding exactly WHY having a thick hide would make you unable to magically heal your wounds, or make potions (Which are consumed, thereby not coming into contact with the hide at all) havve a random chance of failure, it basically sounds like SR vs beneficial effects, and that sounds horrible to me

Invader
2015-02-13, 10:12 PM
This should probably be in the homebrew forum.

J-H
2015-02-13, 10:18 PM
LA2, or LA1 with 3HD (since class levels are better).

Solaris
2015-02-14, 11:13 AM
Around LA +2 due to natural armor and stats, but it really needs to lose the reduced healing thing. That's punishing players for advancing in level without adequate recompense. It's worse than a warforged, because those can still be healed by the repair X damage series of spells. The gigoth doesn't even have that.

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2015-02-14, 12:23 PM
I'd put it at +3 LA, or maybe +2 LA with two racial HD. Something to keep in mind about the prohibition on armor is that they can still benefit from effects that grant an armor bonus to AC, so (Greater) Mage Armor, Bracers of Armor, (Greater) Luminous Armor, Inertial Armor, and similar effects will still be beneficial to them. If you made their Thick Hide more similar to the Dragonscale Husk ACF in Dragon Magic with regards to not stacking with armor bonuses, I would put it at a +2 LA. You could also make it weaker or stronger based on armor proficiency, or make it initially weaker but have racial feats that can upgrade it, which would also put it solidly at +2 LA.

Furthermore, their type is giant, and there's a +0 LA template in Secrets of Xendrik called Primordial Giant. A Primordial Giant Gigoth would have the following changes:
+2 Str, +0 Con, +2 Int, -2 Wis, +0 Chr; +1 caster level for spell-like abilities (such as warlock invocations); One of the following spell-like abilities at will: Invisibility, Invisibility Purge, or Levitate; +2 to Spellcraft and Use Magic Device checks; gains Warlock as an additional favored class. This is in addition to all the standard Gigoth racial traits, and you can even throw on Magic-Blooded for an additional -2 Wis, +2 Cha.

Also keep in mind that other creatures of the giant type can use Alter Self to turn into a Gigoth and benefit from their natural armor bonus. It probably wouldn't be much better than a humanoid turning into a Crucian (+8 natural), but it's still something to consider.

Solaris
2015-02-14, 04:49 PM
That race is not worth three levels of any class, except maybe commoner. It's not worth three levels of barbarian or fighter, and it's definitely not worth three levels of any primary spellcasting class. The race is just worth LA +2, and then only because it has powerful build and its natural armor increases with level and it has +4 Con (which is a good thing; every LA +2 should have something to compensate for its lower Hit Die). You can make a pretty decent argument for making it LA +1; Strength is just about the weakest ability score, and its effects the easiest to replicate.

Shenaniganery from splatbooks that may or may not be in the campaign isn't something to take into account when ascertaining a race's level adjustment, either. That's a problem with the templates, not the race. In fact, with the Primordial Giant template added on to this race at LA +2, then it's worth considering - without it, it's completely worthless as a primary spellcaster due to losing too much spell progression.

Tindragon
2015-02-14, 07:45 PM
Thanks for the input!

Likely going for +2 LA now.




I'd put it at +3 LA, or maybe +2 LA with two racial HD. Something to keep in mind about the prohibition on armor is that they can still benefit from effects that grant an armor bonus to AC, so (Greater) Mage Armor, Bracers of Armor, (Greater) Luminous Armor, Inertial Armor, and similar effects will still be beneficial to them. If you made their Thick Hide more similar to the Dragonscale Husk ACF in Dragon Magic with regards to not stacking with armor bonuses, I would put it at a +2 LA. You could also make it weaker or stronger based on armor proficiency, or make it initially weaker but have racial feats that can upgrade it, which would also put it solidly at +2 LA.




Solaris
Around LA +2 due to natural armor and stats, but it really needs to lose the reduced healing thing. That's punishing players for advancing in level without adequate recompense. It's worse than a warforged, because those can still be healed by the repair X damage series of spells. The gigoth doesn't even have tha


Hazrond

i am just going to mention that the "reduced healing" stipulation in the Iron Hide ability is TERRIBLE, it makes this practically as bad as a warforged only they at least gain the abilityy to heal normally from make whole and such, also, i am having a hard time understanding exactly WHY having a thick hide would make you unable to magically heal your wounds, or make potions (Which are consumed, thereby not coming into contact with the hide at all) havve a random chance of failure, it basically sounds like SR vs beneficial effects, and that sounds horrible to me


I purposefully want the stacking AC bonuses, it's sort of a payoff for the reduced healing later, while at the same time, being able to scale AC to higher levels without stacking plate mail et al on them. The reduced healing, is primarily there to make in UN attractive as a PC race. It's not random non healing, it's simply math, like CLW on a roll of 1 +5 for 6 at 10% would be less than 1, and rounded to 0. Higher healing, still affects them, just less. This was on purpose, and designed to keep my players from being attracted too it.

Why does thicker hide mean no magical healing? Hrmm, mostly because of the ability to enchant it like magical armor. Not limited to just +5, but, resistances, slick, shadowed, etc... I suppose if I were really worried about it, I could make the healing detriment not kick in, till the Iron Hide is enchanted. (Hence Iron Hide, being something separate from Thick Hide)

The race as a hole is not evil, but they are being intro'd to evil invaders working with some evil giants working for a cleric of Hextor.

ZamielVanWeber
2015-02-14, 08:13 PM
Blocking their ability to wear armor can cause treasure issues. Enchanting armor requires significant downtime so being able to enchant your skin is not a huge upside, especially if at some point you want to change your mind about enchantments. Blocking healing means eventually your character will be impossible to sustain without acquiring regeneration or fast healing. Increasing AC is a small benefit at higher levels; miss chance is a much better defence. Honestly I wouldn't play this race at +2, I wouldn't even play it at +1. Eventually my race will get in the way of its own functionality.

The fluff is very cool, but you at least must cut the healing reduction. It is somewhat random and makes the race unplayable at high levels. I would better off with many +1 templates and several +2.

OldTrees1
2015-02-14, 09:06 PM
Isn't this almost the same as a Goliath? I mean there are significant differences but those differences are differences in kind not differences in scale for the most part.

Somewhere between (0 RHD & LA +1) and (3 RHD & LA +0).

Tindragon
2015-02-15, 01:09 PM
Blocking their ability to wear armor can cause treasure issues. Enchanting armor requires significant downtime so being able to enchant your skin is not a huge upside, especially if at some point you want to change your mind about enchantments. Blocking healing means eventually your character will be impossible to sustain without acquiring regeneration or fast healing. Increasing AC is a small benefit at higher levels; miss chance is a much better defence. Honestly I wouldn't play this race at +2, I wouldn't even play it at +1. Eventually my race will get in the way of its own functionality.

The fluff is very cool, but you at least must cut the healing reduction. It is somewhat random and makes the race unplayable at high levels. I would better off with many +1 templates and several +2.

Again, I really don't want it as a PC race....


I purposefully want the stacking AC bonuses, it's sort of a payoff for the reduced healing later, while at the same time, being able to scale AC to higher levels without stacking plate mail et al on them. The reduced healing, is primarily there to make in UN attractive as a PC race. It's not random non healing, it's simply math, like CLW on a roll of 1 +5 for 6 at 10% would be less than 1, and rounded to 0. Higher healing, still affects them, just less. This was on purpose, and designed to keep my players from being attracted too it.

Komatik
2015-02-15, 01:14 PM
The only LA that's ever correct is +0, so the system won't contaminate actual games.

Tindragon
2015-02-15, 01:16 PM
Isn't this almost the same as a Goliath? I mean there are significant differences but those differences are differences in kind not differences in scale for the most part.

Somewhere between (0 RHD & LA +1) and (3 RHD & LA +0).

Ha, never got into RoS before, have had pdf for a while.... A lot of the culture is similar, I can see that. But no.

ZamielVanWeber
2015-02-15, 01:36 PM
Again, I really don't want it as a PC race....

Then give it LA- and your players cannot use it. No need to falsely tempt them.

Thatwarforged
2015-02-15, 01:37 PM
If this is a monster to the party, then create its race without the penalty and not offer it to the party as race. Just don't give it this penalty to stop players from taking it. Yeah its not inheritenly evil dosen't make it not a monster I mean they have angle stats in the MM.

OldTrees1
2015-02-15, 02:49 PM
Ha, never got into RoS before, have had pdf for a while.... A lot of the culture is similar, I can see that. But no.

I meant that it was mechanically comparable to the Goliath race (both in the major features of powerful build/non humanoid/ability modifiers and in overall strength) and thus deserves a RHD/LA that is comparable to a Goliath. I distinctly said nothing about their cultures/fluff since that was irrelevant to the question at hand. This race is mechanically distinct from Goliath but not in a way that I feel would impact RHD/LA ("differences in kind, not in scale").

So since it is slightly more powerful than a Goliath, it should have RHD/LA but not much.

Thurbane
2015-02-16, 03:39 PM
Depends whether you want a WotC style LA (which tend to be too high, at a minimum +2), or a Playground style LA (which rarely tend to go over +1 - often +0)...

Savannah
2015-02-16, 05:45 PM
The Mod One Out: Moved to Homebrew subforum. Can't help with the LA question, sorry!