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Tehnar
2007-04-06, 10:38 AM
Using UMD to activate wands/scrolls and so forth is pretty straightforward, but what happens when a charcter with UMD tries to use a staff?

So to use a staff the character needs to make a DC 20 UMD check (as using a wand (spell trigger)), emulate the required ability score (UMD check -15) and the caster lvl (UMD check -20). Since staffs use the users caster lvl and ability score (and any feats the character has) what happens when a character uses UMD to activate a staff?

For example John the lvl 12 rogue with a total of +25 to UMD tries to activate a staff that has cone of cold. If he took skill mastery UMD and can take 10 on UMD checks, he can always emulate a caster lvl of 15 and a ability score of 20. If John uses that staff will the cone of cold do 15d6 dmg with a save DC of 10+4 (4th lvl spell) + 5 (emulated ability score)=19, or will it do 8d6 dmg (minimun staff caster lvl 8) with a save DC of 10+4+2(minimum ability score (14) to use a 4th lvl spell) = 16

Indon
2007-04-06, 10:43 AM
Yes, you can get a very high caster level on a staff with a high UMD check.

Since most spells have caster level caps on most of their variables (though, you could get a 10d6 Fireball with a reeeeeeally long range if you're running around with enough +UMD stuff), it's not all _that_ exploitable.

Hmm. You'd need a caster level of 122 to be able to fire a long-range spell a full mile.

Edit: Not to mention staves have charges. I guess it'd be kinda screwed up if you were using a staff with infinite charges, though.

Tehnar
2007-04-06, 12:16 PM
A lvl 12 could get +30 to UMD without breaking a sweat, which emulates CL 20; a staff of holy word raised to CL 20 would be kind of broken.

Jasdoif
2007-04-06, 12:23 PM
It doesn't work that way. UMD lets you use the staff as if you had the caster level necessary, but it doesn't actually give you a caster level. You would use the staff's CL, not whatever emulated result you got.

EDIT: Just realized...since we're talking about a spell trigger item, UMD doesn't even let you emulate a caster level, it just lets you emulate having a particular spell on your class spell list.

Indon
2007-04-06, 12:28 PM
It doesn't work that way. UMD lets you use the staff as if you had the caster level necessary, but it doesn't actually give you a caster level. You would use the staff's CL, not whatever emulated result you got.

That is certainly a valid interpretation, but another one is:



Emulate a Class Feature
Sometimes you need to use a class feature to activate a magic item. In this case, your effective level in the emulated class equals your Use Magic Device check result minus 20. This skill does not let you actually use the class feature of another class. It just lets you activate items as if you had that class feature. If the class whose feature you are emulating has an alignment requirement, you must meet it, either honestly or by emulating an appropriate alignment with a separate Use Magic Device check (see above).

You need to be a caster to use a staff, and when using the staff, it uses your caster level. So emulating a higher caster level allows you to activate items _as if you had a higher caster level_, which would make a staff more powerful.

Of course, there's probably something on some Wizards FAQ which someone will come by and cite soon.

Jasdoif
2007-04-06, 12:35 PM
Yay for concurrent edit & post! Is that, like, some subtree of ninja?

Anyway.

Caster level is not a class feature. Neither is activating a magic item. You can't emulate those things with Emulate Class Feature, because they're not class features. That's why there's the Use Wand use of UMD (which applies to all spell trigger items, like staffs). And Use Wand just emulating having a spell on your spell list for the sake of using a spell trigger item.

Indon
2007-04-06, 03:56 PM
Yay for concurrent edit & post! Is that, like, some subtree of ninja?

Anyway.

Caster level is not a class feature. Neither is activating a magic item. You can't emulate those things with Emulate Class Feature, because they're not class features. That's why there's the Use Wand use of UMD (which applies to all spell trigger items, like staffs). And Use Wand just emulating having a spell on your spell list for the sake of using a spell trigger item.

I disagree that caster level isn't a class feature (for say, a magical item which would require X caster level, such as picking up this item (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/artifacts.htm#talismanoftheSphere) without taking damage), but I do see your point about the Use Wand use of UMD.

I guess a really high UMD check really won't let you use a staff at a higher level. Pity.