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View Full Version : D&D 5e/Next Help building Divine/Healing-oriented Monk Discipline



Venardhi
2015-02-14, 12:26 AM
My party is short a healer, and the resident monk is considering multi-classing into Cleric to be more useful. He doesn't especially want to, but it is looking increasingly necessary with some of the shenanigans his party members get up to. I offered him the possibility of designing a healing/support Discipline for him to take, which better suits his character anyways. I honestly haven't even managed to fully learn all the rules and standards of this new edition yet, with only a few sessions under my belt. Hoping some of you can either make some suggestions or at least point out where I may be going way off base.

Here are my thoughts so far:

Way of Light:
Monks of the Way of Light follow a tradition of healing and protection. They have dedicated themselves to bringing peace and enlightenment to the darkness of the world around them. They may or may not kneel to a specific deity, but all are known for their selfless devotion to good. Monks of this tradition often live simple vagrant lives attempting to spread the teachings of the Way of Light. Using their abilities, they are able to heal themselves and others with their ki, as well as harness the power and speed of light into defensive and offensive forces to help them achieve their goals.

Radiant Arts: Starting when you choose this tradition at 3rd level, you can use your ki to duplicate the effects of certain spells. As an action, you can spend 2 ki points to cast Bane, Bless, Cure Wounds or Shield of Light* as 2nd level spells without providing material components. In addition, your Flurry of Blows may deal radiant attack damage if doing so is benefitial.

[*As "Shield of Faith" with both the caster and target gaining the benefits of the spell.]

Illumination: Starting at level 6, you are able to call upon the divine light within yourself to illuminate an area 60 feet in diameter for one minute with you as its source. Any magical darkness in the radius is dispelled and any hidden or invisible creatures within or entering the area under effect of Illumination are revealed. Enemies within the radius of Illumination at the time of use must make a saving throw against your ki or be blinded until a successful retest. In addition, this light reveals any magically hidden or disguised objects or passages within the radius. Concentration is required to maintain the effects of Illumination and you must have a short rest before using this ability again.

Coruscation: At 11th level, you can briefly transform yourself into a being of pure light to move faster than the eyes of your enemy can possibly follow.
- At the expense of 3 additional ki to perform Flurry of Blows, you gain advantage on all attack rolls this turn and deal additional radiant damage equal to your wisdom modifier.
- At the expense of 3 additional ki to perform Patient Defense, you may extend the bonuses of your Dodge action to all allies within 10 feet.
- At the expense of 3 additional ki to perform Step of the Wind, you may move in a straight unimpeded line to any unoccupied space without drawing attacks of opportunity. Attacks made against you before your next turn are at a disadvantage.

Brilliant Aura: Starting at 17th level, you may call upon your Radiant ki energies to surround you in an aura with a 30-foot radius centered on and moving with you for turns equal to your wisdom modifier. Attacks targeting non-hostile creatures within the aura are reflected back upon the attacker as radiant damage equal to half the damage of the original attack. In addition, the targeted creature is healed for HP equal to the same amount. Any creature under the effect of Healing light not attacked for the duration of Brilliant Aura is healed 5d10 HP when the effect ends. You must complete a long rest before using Brilliant Aura again.


Just about done here I think. Please give feedback.

- Vin

Ghost Dragon
2015-02-14, 06:26 AM
Hey mate, I like the idea of this and have already built a divine monk based off of 3.5 sacred fist PrC. Here is the link.

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?396545-Monk-Archetype-Way-of-the-Sacred-Fist

It's still got some combat focus with its powers due to me wanting to keep close to the original feel of the PrC, but it's got access to cleric spells (as per Eldritch Knight spell progression) and channel divinity healing so there may be some things there you want to use. Feel free to pick at it and take anything of use for ya ;)

Cheers

DiBastet
2015-02-14, 09:32 AM
Hm, I wouldn't build this allowing for ki-based cure light wounds. I don't mind making a monk really good at healing, even better than a non-healing cleric, but ki-based healing would mean lots of cure wounds each short rest, and as I see it this system tries to limit the healing a little.

The way I see monk subclasses, they work more or less like this:

Level 3: Combat buff, good if you can weave more flurry-like options
Level 6: Utility
Level 11: Utility
Level 17: Damage combat buff

I did a healing subclass for the monk, based on chakra fluff. I'll post the skeleton here and maybe you can get some inspiration or steal stuff.

Level 3: Align Chakra: You may substitute one of your Flurry of Blows attack for a healing touch that heals your unnarmed dice plus your WIS modifier. You can't use it on yourself. You must attack a challenging creature to be able to use this healing touch. Design: It's a touch ability, your main way of healing. Allows you to heal while in the middle of combat and while still trading blows with the bad guys.
Level 3: Acupuncture: Exactly like the bard's Song of Rest ability, but as you may have guessed it uses your unnarmed damage dice. Design: Your main out of healing ability, it's a complement to the first ability that is a little weak by itself
Level 6: Kiss of the Dragon: You may spend 3 Ki to use something akin to Hold Person, but with the following changes: range of touch, CON saving throw, and it ends if the opponent takes damage. Design: Based on the elemental monk, you spend 3 Ki for a 2nd level spell. Hold person is more useful and powerful than most elemental monk options, so it has some limitations. My intention is to allow for a single strike against the enemy, but mostly to work as some kind of "CC" ability, taking the opponent out for some rounds
Level 11: Ki Flux: You may use Align Chakra on youself and on allies up to half your land speed away. Design: Simple buff to iconic ability, you may use it in different ways now, nothing crazy
Level 17: Ki of Life: You may cast Greater Restoration or Ressurrection by spending 5 ki. Design: Based on the elemental monk again, spend ki for a thematic effect. As the capstone I made it not too expensive ki-wise and gave two spells. It comes in pretty late after all


As you can see your main healing is limited in size but scales using the class existing framework. You can't save ki to heal out of combat and then short rest because you must be in combat to use it. Hope it helps, and if needed feel free to steal anything you want.

Leuku
2015-02-14, 10:32 AM
Radiant Arts: Starting when you choose this tradition at 3rd level, you can use your ki to duplicate the effects of certain spells. As an action, you can spend 1 ki point to cast Bane, Bless, Cure Wounds or Shield of Faith without providing material components. In addition, you also know the Light cantrip if you don't already know it.

Take it from the Elemental Monk: Spells cast by monks require a number of ki points equal to 1 greater than the the level of the spell. So Bane, Bless, Cure Wounds, and Shield of Faith should cost 2 ki points each.


Light of all Life: Starting at 6th level, you are able to channel the ki of those around you, reducing the AC of an enemy by your wisdom bonus and increasing the AC of an ally by the same. You may change the targets of this ability as an action once per turn. In addition, you are able to spend 2 ki points to cast Cure Wounds as a second level spell on the ally under the effect of Light of all Life as if you were touching them.

Too strong for certain. Being able to Cure Wounds from a distance is already great. Being able to cast it at higher levels is Greater. And THEN you can channel AC from an enemy to an ally consequence free? No saving throw? No Concentration? Haul this feature in.


Illumination: Starting at level 11, you are able to call upon the divine light within yourself to illuminate an area 60 feet in diameter with you as its source. Any hidden or invisible creatures within this radius are revealed and all enemies must make a saving throw against your ki or be blinded for 1d4 turns. In addition, this light reveals any magically hidden or disguised objects or passages within the radius. You must have a short rest before using this ability again.

1d4 turns blinding is (potentially) too much. Just have them repeat their saving throw at the end of each of their turns.

Venardhi
2015-02-14, 06:00 PM
Thanks for the tips Ghost Dragon and DiBastet. I may just borrow some of those.


Take it from the Elemental Monk: Spells cast by monks require a number of ki points equal to 1 greater than the the level of the spell. So Bane, Bless, Cure Wounds, and Shield of Faith should cost 2 ki points each.

The Way of Shadow offers 4 level 2 spells for 2 ki points each. Which was my starting point, but I realized that I could find 4 level 1 spells that suited the flavor better than I could find level 2 spells. 1 does feel a little light, but 2 makes the cost prohibitive using by-the-book ki numbers. Forcing a level 4 player to not use any of their other ki-based abilities because they have to save their measely 4 ki for healing if the next fight comes sooner than expected is going to seriously diminish the efficacy and fun of the monk. At the same level, a Cleric would be casting something like 7 spells per day. Perhaps each time they cast it before a short rest it increases the ki cost by 1? Would that be an adequately balancing compromise?


Too strong for certain. Being able to Cure Wounds from a distance is already great. Being able to cast it at higher levels is Greater. And THEN you can channel AC from an enemy to an ally consequence free? No saving throw? No Concentration? Haul this feature in.

I was pretty sure this one was too much. Thanks for the confirmation. Do you think I should focus on the healing/defensive aspect of this or the debuff side? Maybe a ki cost to reforge the connection each time the monk loses concentration or the enemy resists the connection? A standard ki saving throw? Remove the debuff aspect and just focus on giving one ally the AC buff and potential healing? I'd rather not make this one another big ki sink given how little of it there is to spend freely.


1d4 turns blinding is (potentially) too much. Just have them repeat their saving throw at the end of each of their turns.
That seems fair and more in keeping with existing material.

Venardhi
2015-02-15, 06:08 AM
I was thinking it might be pretty neat to have some sort of life leach ability and the ability to transfer their own HP into other players. As a combo, the abilities would allow the monk to still be primarily a damage dealer but also heal (to the short-term detriment of themselves).

Does anything like this exist in the current system?

DiBastet
2015-02-15, 07:59 AM
Well no, but I've seen a "sacrifice" spell that healed as much as cure wounds while being swift, but caused the damage on yourself. I don't see this as being troublesome since there's no fast healing this edition except for high level fighters

Venardhi
2015-02-15, 08:04 AM
How about something like a flurry of blows with an additional ki cost which allows you to convert the damage into healing for yourself, and then a separate ability to transfer HP from yourself to another creature, or an ability to form a bond with an ally where you absorb their damage? Any thoughts?

DiBastet
2015-02-15, 09:57 AM
Well you could use my idea of trading one exta attack from flurry of blows for a healing touch that heals unarmed dice + wis. I believe I based it on the shadowsun ninja prc that had something similar.

A mechanic based on the shield other spell from this edition would be cool too.

Leuku
2015-02-15, 07:13 PM
The Way of Shadow offers 4 level 2 spells for 2 ki points each. Which was my starting point, but I realized that I could find 4 level 1 spells that suited the flavor better than I could find level 2 spells. 1 does feel a little light, but 2 makes the cost prohibitive using by-the-book ki numbers. Forcing a level 4 player to not use any of their other ki-based abilities because they have to save their measely 4 ki for healing if the next fight comes sooner than expected is going to seriously diminish the efficacy and fun of the monk. At the same level, a Cleric would be casting something like 7 spells per day.

The Monk regains Ki at the end of every Short rest, as opposed to the Cleric regaining spell slots at the end of every Long rest. If the average adventuring day has 2 short rests, then the Cleric will have 7 slots to spread over the day, about 2.3 spells between short rests, whereas the Monk will have 12 Ki points spread throughout the day, 4 between short rests. So if those 4 spells for the Monk costs 1 each, that is 12 spells he can cast in the day, as opposed to the Cleric's 7. But if each of those spells costs 2 Ki points, then that is the Monk casting 6 in the day, which is now comparable to the Cleric.

Have Cure Wounds be cast at 2nd level and consume 2 ki points. That way the Monk gets the right bang for his buck, is comparable to the Shadow monk, and is not casting 12 spells in a 2-short-rest day. Do the same for Bane, Bless, and Shield.


Perhaps each time they cast it before a short rest it increases the ki cost by 1? Would that be an adequately balancing compromise?

That would be too much bookkeeping, something 5e tries strenuously to avoid.


I was pretty sure this one was too much. Thanks for the confirmation. Do you think I should focus on the healing/defensive aspect of this or the debuff side? Maybe a ki cost to reforge the connection each time the monk loses concentration or the enemy resists the connection? A standard ki saving throw? Remove the debuff aspect and just focus on giving one ally the AC buff and potential healing? I'd rather not make this one another big ki sink given how little of it there is to spend freely.

This entire feature is already replicated by your spells Cure Wounds and Shield of Faith. Why not do something that the Paladin could do in 4e? As a reaction, allow an ally within 30 feet to reroll a saving throw, keeping the second result. Name it: Saving Grace.

Venardhi
2015-02-15, 10:35 PM
Fair points.

Made some pretty major changes and added a possible candidate for the 17th level which suits the flavor of this discipline deliciously well and expands the base ki abilities to be more interesting in the later levels.

Venardhi
2015-02-16, 04:36 PM
Hoping I can get a few more thoughts on this before I offer it to the player in a couple days. Especially regarding the later level additions and how long the 6th level ability should last.

Leuku
2015-02-16, 11:38 PM
Hoping I can get a few more thoughts on this before I offer it to the player in a couple days. Especially regarding the later level additions and how long the 6th level ability should last.


6th level: Make it up to 1 minute.

17th level: Not that interesting a feature. Doesn't have much to do with the nature of the class. You could make his flurry of blows deal Radiant damage at 11th level, alongside the existing 11th level feature, for free.

Here's an alternative 17th level feature:

You can transform in to a beacon of holy energy. Using your action, you can undergo a transformation. When you do so, allies within 30 feet of you gain 20 temporary hit points. And for 1 minute, you gain the following benefits:

Allies within 30 feet of you can deal radiant damage with their weapon attacks alongside their normal damage types
You can spend a bonus action to heal a creature within 30 feet of you 1d10 + your wisdom modifier
You can use a bonus action to dispell any magical darkness
As an action, you can cast the spell Greater Restoration



You can use this feature once between long rests.

Venardhi
2015-02-17, 02:14 AM
Well the idea is to improve all of the base Monk ki abilities with the theme of the Discipline. The Patient Defense improvement in particular is very defensive and could easily be the saving grace of a party in certain circumstances. Step of the Wind improvement is also situationally very useful for coming to the aid of a party member at a distance further than one might normally be able to get to them from. The flurry of blows one is useful for the advantage when necessary, but not really the focus of the overall package. The monk taking this discipline should still get some level of combat improvements from it considering most the other ones have significant combat benefits. I do think I'll borrow the dispersing magical darkness thing for Illumination though. Thanks!

Venardhi
2015-02-18, 12:33 AM
Just about done, but I could really use more feedback on A. refining the 17th level abilities and B. the Shield of Faith conundrum.

DiBastet
2015-02-18, 07:34 AM
I can't exactly help with the capstone since I don't get the thing of the class. The function, sure, but not the thing. I don't know if this guys is a dedicated healer, if he's a guy with some healing powers, if he's a wuxia light-weaver or something like that. I like dealing radiant damage; I would even make it a base ability gained earlier.

However, I like the Shield of faith part. I believe you could create your own At Higher Levels, and list it as a separate ability by the way, something like "you shield another target at level x, and more targets at levels y and z". But I would only do that if shielding people was the class "thing". If not then just keep as it is.

Venardhi
2015-02-18, 12:58 PM
I can't exactly help with the capstone since I don't get the thing of the class. The function, sure, but not the thing. I don't know if this guys is a dedicated healer, if he's a guy with some healing powers, if he's a wuxia light-weaver or something like that. I like dealing radiant damage; I would even make it a base ability gained earlier.

However, I like the Shield of faith part. I believe you could create your own At Higher Levels, and list it as a separate ability by the way, something like "you shield another target at level x, and more targets at levels y and z". But I would only do that if shielding people was the class "thing". If not then just keep as it is.
He is still a monk, so I didn't want to make all of his abilities strictly "shieldy" in nature. Clearly he isn't going to be a replacement for a Cleric in the party with only a handful of Cure Wounds a day at best, and even fewer on days when he has to spend his ki for offense and defense in more difficult fights. He also shouldn't feel like he should be using all of his time healing and defending rather than fighting, so I want to give him a nice combo of healing, defense and offensive utility powers. I'd honestly kind of like to move his 17th level up to be his 11th level power but then I feel like the existing 11th level power would be a pretty disappointing capstone compared to the "instantly kill enemy" or "attack adjacent enemies whenever they take damage", etc. abilities of the other domains. Then again, it is the least in keeping with his "light" theme anyways, so I may be best off revisiting it anyways.

So far, the abilities he has are:
Healing: Cure Wounds.
Offensive: Flurry of Blows upgrade.
Defensive: Shield of Faith, Patient Defense upgrade.
Utility: Bane, Bless, Illumination, The Light of Moirai, Step of the Wind upgrade.

So it is definitely more on the utility side of things, with most abilities helping the entire party or specific members of the party in some way.

Venardhi
2015-02-18, 08:18 PM
How would you guys respond to something like this as a capstone with the current 17th level abilities shifted to the 11th level slot?

Brilliant Aura - Radiant Ki Energy surrounds you in an aura with a 30-foot radius centered on and moving with you for turns equal to your wisdom modifier. Attacks targeting non-hostile creatures within the aura are reflected back upon the attacker as radiant damage equal to half the damage of the original attack. In addition, the targeted creature is healed for HP equal to the same amount. Any creature under the effect of Healing light not attacked for the duration of Brilliant Aura is healed 5d10 HP when the effect ends. You must complete a long rest before using Brilliant Aura again.

Admiral Squish
2015-02-18, 08:52 PM
Hmm. I could definitely imagine some sort of healer monk thing, it could be interesting. I'd want to make it work based on heal checks, with like chiropractic stuff, pressure points, chi alignment, and stuff like that, so you do most of the healing out of combat, or maybe give it some sort of healing over time so you can start an effect and let it run its course while you get back into the fight, or jump around from one injured individual to another.
Maybe something that uses stunning first uses, or ki, or whatever the term is. You touch an ally, disrupt harmful energy patterns and unleash the body's healing power, and they gain fast healing equal to their hit die which lasts for one round per class level.

Venardhi
2015-02-18, 09:22 PM
Does anything else in the books currently make use of skills for that sort of thing?

Admiral Squish
2015-02-18, 09:54 PM
Skill-based healing? No, I don't think so. It would be easy enough to design, though.
Say, the base check is DC 10, takes one hour, and heals damage equal to the healer's ranks in heal. Maybe build in a limit that you can only use it on a creature once/day/target's hit die (so, a 1-HD creature can only take one healing/day, but a 5 HD creature could survive five, or you can't use it on them again for an hour.
You can attempt more difficult, aggressive treatments to increase the healing, adding 1d6 HP healed for every 5 points you raise the DC by.
If you fail by <5, it just doesn't work.
If you fail by >5, something goes wrong. Target takes 1d6 damage/DC increase.

Then throw in some DCs for removing conditions, diseases, poisons, healing ability damage, maybe sprinkle in some exotic material component stuff to allow the healer to remove supernatural effects like ability drain or negative levels.

Venardhi
2015-02-18, 10:04 PM
Seems to go against some of the design philosophy of the game, which as far as I can tell is: "Does this mechanic make the game more fun or is it just complexity for complexity's sake?" In this case, the flavor of the Discipline is about the Monk being a channel and manipulator of this radiant divine ki energy and I think that kind of chakra manipulation and more medicinal flavor is probably best used for a different creation.

Admiral Squish
2015-02-18, 10:10 PM
Seems to go against some of the design philosophy of the game, which as far as I can tell is: "Does this mechanic make the game more fun or is it just complexity for complexity's sake?" In this case, the flavor of the Discipline is about the Monk being a channel and manipulator of this radiant divine ki energy and I think that kind of chakra manipulation and more medicinal flavor is probably best used for a different creation.

Well, it's your call, ultimately, I was just pondering on the idea of monk healing. If you wanna go the supernatural route and have it be magic divine healing, that's cool. I was just thinking some sort of chakra-manipulating/acupressure/ki-regeneration kinda thing would dovetail nicely into the base monk's flavor.

Venardhi
2015-02-18, 10:30 PM
I appreciate the idea, certainly. I'm just coming up on a bit of a time limit since the party is going to hit level 3 during the next session and I want it to be all out on the table for my player so he knows what he is getting/giving up by choosing it.

It does make me wonder about the potential for a "Physicker" class. Oriented around that sort of system. Not sure what its offensive abilities could be though. I'd be happy to contribute if you decide to expand on such an idea.

DiBastet
2015-02-19, 04:50 AM
I'll probably post my chakra and pressure point based healing monk today, so you might want to take a look at that.

Venardhi
2015-02-19, 05:36 AM
I certainly will, would still appreciate feedback on the changes to this discipline above though.