Succubus/Vampire Hybrid PC

[Gwazi Magnum]

Basically I'm looking to make a character modeled off of Succubus and Vampires in regards to manipulating and preying off people, perhaps even other succusbus and vampires.

Now to note I am not using the actual templates (LA is ridiculous). But rather an attempted immitation of the main features. The focus is towards flavor, not min/maxing. However the build should be usable/viable.

So any advice would be appreciated.

Now currently my planned build if the following.
Note: Book of Erotic Fantasy is in, therefore there are seven ability scores.

Race: Changeling

Classes:
2 Levels Generic Warrior
2 Levels Paladin of Slaughter (Extra Variants)
+Favored Enemy
-Lay on hands, Turn Undead, Cure Disease
1 Level City Brawler Barbian (Extra Variants)
+Rapid Shot & Favored Enemy
-Rage
10 Levels Soul Eater
3 Bloodline Levels (Planned custom, will use Vampire if not allowed though).

Templates: Unseelie Fey & Feral Creature.
->Feral has house ruled variant giving it a bite attack rather than a natural attack.

And that's mainly it so far.
I'm still debating on most feats, exact skill investment etc.

[Crake]

If it were me, I'd use changeling as the base race, as you already have, but get levels in beguiler until you have 5 bab, get a level in soul eater and a single level in the vampire savage progression. It gets you energy drain, blood drain, and no vulnerability to sunlight, plus a whole slew of charm abilities. Takes 12 levels to come online though.

If you want to speed up bab progression, taking 3 levels in ruathar would get you bab 5 by level 9, saving you a level.

Or alternatively, you could just play a full succubus using the succubus savage progression savage species, snagging a single level of vampire somewhere along the way.

[Karl Aegis]

I don't see how any of your class features mimic a succubus or a vampire at all. You might be able to get away with mimicking a wight with that build, but you're not getting very far into vampire/succubus. You need charm and dominate monster, immunity to electricity, cold resistance and a bonus to spot/listen at the very least.

[sideswipe]

you will have to convince your DM to allow generic classes alongside normal classes. they are stated to only be used if no normal classes exist.

[Gwazi Magnum]

Interesting Idea.

I went ahead and looked at Savage species. I can only find the succubus, not the vampire. Any idea where the vampire might be?

[Flickerdart]

Interesting Idea.

I went ahead and looked at Savage species. I can only find the succubus, not the vampire. Any idea where the vampire might be?
Online (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20030824a).

Also, the succubus progression in Savage Species is for the 3.0 succubus, and you'll need to update it for use in a 3.5 game.

[Gwazi Magnum]

@Posts that ninjad me.

Mixing Generic with others is already approved.

Also, I'm focusing on the main characteristics like energy drain, charismatic, etc.

I'll admit the lack of stuff like dominate is an issue I still need to work out.

But resistances? That's hardly what either of them is known for. Flavor wise its one if the things I can most afford to ignore.

[Gwazi Magnum]

Online (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20030824a).

Also, the succubus progression in Savage Species is for the 3.0 succubus, and you'll need to update it for use in a 3.5 game.

Thanks.

Though isn't 3rd edition content fine in 3.5 if there's been no 3.5 update to it?

[Urpriest]

Thanks.

Though isn't 3rd edition content fine in 3.5 if there's been no 3.5 update to it?

Fine with changes to make it 3.5-appropriate. In this case, Succubus has been explicitly updated, and the succubus monster class explicitly reproduces the succubus monster (since that's what all monster classes do) so if you don't update it the rules are contradictory.

[goto124]

I read the thread title and thought 'what a way to justify a sexy vampire'.

[Gwazi Magnum]

I looked at both the savage progressions now and I'm wondering, is it possible to take their levels 1 by 1 AND buy off the LA 1 by 1?

Ex: I reach level 3 and then take level 4 as a vampire. Can I buy it off instantly and treat myself as level 3? Or do I need to wait till level 5, and then buy it off? Or am I just not allowed to buy off LA from progression in small chunks like that?

Because if not I'll probably just dip into them.


Fine with changes to make it 3.5-appropriate. In this case, Succubus has been explicitly updated, and the succubus monster class explicitly reproduces the succubus monster (since that's what all monster classes do) so if you don't update it the rules are contradictory.

Alright.
And what was it about succubus that got updated in 3.5?

[Urpriest]

I looked at both the savage progressions now and I'm wondering, is it possible to take their levels 1 by 1 AND buy off the LA 1 by 1?

Ex: I reach level 3 and then take level 4 as a vampire. Can I buy it off instantly and treat myself as level 3? Or do I need to wait till level 5, and then buy it off? Or am I just not allowed to buy off LA from progression in small chunks like that?

Because if not I'll probably just dip into them.

The rules for LA buyoff were written without taking into account acquired templates, so the answer to your questions is somewhere between "who knows" and "probably by strict RAW, after a long argument about grammar".




Alright.
And what was it about succubus that got updated in 3.5?

IIRC not a lot, mostly having to do with Demon traits being standardized and spells being shuffled around a bit. You should probably go through it line by line anyway to check, though if you don't have access to the 3.0 MM and I have nothing better to do I could give it a shot.

[Debihuman]

My question is how is your PC going to fit in with others? If you have a character with awesome abilities but are at risk of being turned or destroyed, how does that work for you?

[With a box]

"Vampire" is an acquired template that can be added to any humanoid or monstrous humanoid creature

I don't think Succubus vampire is possible.

[Urpriest]

I don't think Succubus vampire is possible.

I think the overall idea is just to have a character with vampiric and succubus-like powers, the actual monster classes are presumably just being explored for convenience.

After all, as the Fiend Folio shows us, Vampiric Fiends are rather a different story from other vampires.

[Gwazi Magnum]

I also feel the need to say that I chose to scrap the Barbarian level for a level of Battle Dancer. The unarmed stuff was fairly pointless when my main method of combat is a bite attack.

+The CHA to AC will be a huge boon.

Edit: I also scrapped the bloodline levels cause it was too men and slowing me way too much. Especially with the now added vampire progression levels.


The rules for LA buyoff were written without taking into account acquired templates, so the answer to your questions is somewhere between "who knows" and "probably by strict RAW, after a long argument about grammar".

I'll probably do that then.
Looking at it I only really want the first 3 anyways. That's where I'll gain some sort of dominate, where level 4 and up starts to add annoying vampire penalties.

+I basically get the spawn ability anyways at level 9 of soul eater.



IIRC not a lot, mostly having to do with Demon traits being standardized and spells being shuffled around a bit. You should probably go through it line by line anyway to check, though if you don't have access to the 3.0 MM and I have nothing better to do I could give it a shot.

Thanks for the offer but it's fine.
I have access to the books myself.

Besides, after looking closely at the succubus progression I decided it better not touching it.

Reasoning being the second I start I'm trapped in all the levels, unlike vampire which let's me leave when I want.

Plus basically everything it has to offer minus high CHA and resistances I'm already gaining from Soul eater, Unseelie Fey and changeling.

While high CHA is easy to get. And resistances is honestly I don't mind losing out on. I mean when I go hybrid I need to pay some prices after all. :P


My question is how is your PC going to fit in with others? If you have a character with awesome abilities but are at risk of being turned or destroyed, how does that work for you?

I played an undead necromancer cleric with these same people before. We're already used to having people with such weaknesses.

[Gwazi Magnum]

I think the overall idea is just to have a character with vampiric and succubus-like powers, the actual monster classes are presumably just being explored for convenience.

After all, as the Fiend Folio shows us, Vampiric Fiends are rather a different story from other vampires.

^

I'm using other classes, templates, builds etc to help best simulate a hybrid in a way thats fun to play. Where any build loop holes will be fluffed over.

If I was simply using a Succubus and Vampire template and then calling it a day there would be no need for this topic.

+The LA ramp would make the character die very fast indeed.

[KillianHawkeye]

Have you considered the Half-Vampire template? It's pretty decent for 2 LA.

[Gwazi Magnum]

Have you considered the Half-Vampire template? It's pretty decent for 2 LA.

It looks nice. Especially the charm gaze ability. But otherwise it seems a lot like a duplicate of the progression levels, which seems a bit cheap.

Is there another way I can obtain a way to get Charm Monster without heavy investment in spellcasting classes?

[Belial_the_Leveler]

Have you tried convincing your DM to try Pathfinder? In Pathfinder, you could play an actual vampire succubus by lvl 9 as monsters and templates go by CR instead of LA.

[Gwazi Magnum]

Sadly our DM is rather adamant about treating pathfinder and d&d as separate games that don't mix.

[DMVerdandi]

Honestly, I would do this.


Create a necropolitan wizard.
>Take two flaws

>Take Lost Tradition feat with one of them and have Wizard cast off of appearance ability(you use spellcraft to decipher magical texts, but you cast them through the power of your physical magnetism.)

>Take Willing Deformity with the other, Then for one of your first level feats, take willing deformity (teeth)

>Take Smiting spell

>Take eidetic spellcaster ACF, and Spontaneous Divination ACF

>Take Dominator at level 10



So...
Wizard 10/Dominator 10
ACF: Spontaneous Divination & Eidetic Spellcaster

Feats
[Flaw] Lost Tradition (Appearance), Willing Deformity
[1] Smiting spell, Willing Deformity(Teeth)
[3]Iron Will
[6]Leadership
[9]Mentor
[10//Wizard Bonus] Extend Spell???


Now, as a wizard, you will be able to pick a host of spells. THIS is where your flavor comes from.
Pick up Enchantment, Necromancy, and illusion spells like crazy, Obtain ALL of the spells from the book of erotic fantasy, and then finally, take spells like Vampiric touch, enervation, dominate, peacocks beauty, and other things that vampires would do.

Flavor with the spells, not the class/racial features, which take longer to invest in and aren't as modular.
Use your Bite attack to deliver spells through Smiting Spell feat.

If you can, Take the spell point variant wizard.

[Gwazi Magnum]

Honestly, I would do this.


Create a necropolitan wizard.
>Take two flaws

>Take Lost Tradition feat with one of them and have Wizard cast off of appearance ability(you use spellcraft to decipher magical texts, but you cast them through the power of your physical magnetism.)

>Take Willing Deformity with the other, Then for one of your first level feats, take willing deformity (teeth)

>Take Smiting spell

>Take eidetic spellcaster ACF, and Spontaneous Divination ACF

>Take Dominator at level 10



So...
Wizard 10/Dominator 10
ACF: Spontaneous Divination & Eidetic Spellcaster

Feats
[Flaw] Lost Tradition (Appearance), Willing Deformity
[1] Smiting spell, Willing Deformity(Teeth)
[3]Iron Will
[6]Leadership
[9]Mentor
[10//Wizard Bonus] Extend Spell???


Now, as a wizard, you will be able to pick a host of spells. THIS is where your flavor comes from.
Pick up Enchantment, Necromancy, and illusion spells like crazy, Obtain ALL of the spells from the book of erotic fantasy, and then finally, take spells like Vampiric touch, enervation, dominate, peacocks beauty, and other things that vampires would do.

Flavor with the spells, not the class/racial features, which take longer to invest in and aren't as modular.
Use your Bite attack to deliver spells through Smiting Spell feat.

If you can, Take the spell point variant wizard.


I like it. :)
Though two questions.

1. What's the bite motivation?
As in it seems like something I'd only want to use for RP now. Where it's almost always more effective to just cast it normally.

2. Why Dominator?

[DMVerdandi]

I like it. :)
Though two questions.

1. What's the bite motivation?
As in it seems like something I'd only want to use for RP now. Where it's almost always more effective to just cast it normally.

2. Why Dominator?

You said you wanted something vampire like.
Honestly, it isn't extremely "optimal", and you could toss it aside. It's good enough without it to simply work as a mysterious, sultry seducer/seductress without biting, or yeah, you could just cast like Bite of the xxx, and be cool.

That is two free feats you can get if you drop it. One that is good is Collegiate Wizard (two free spells every level), and you could possibly add something else. Maybe Improved turning resistance.
Shore up against your weaknesses.


2. Well, I chose dominator out of the Book of Erotic Fantasy, since it has some interesting kink to it, pretty flavorful class abilities, and fully progresses spell casting.
Again, you can change it, but I would suggest something that fully progresses your casting.

-----------------

Essentially, this COULD simply be a necropolitan Spell point wizard 20, with both of those alternate class features and the Lost Traditions feat, and it would work excellent. The rest is up to you.



Then simply learning all of the wiz/sorc spells out of the BOEF, as well as mostly necromancy, Enchantment and Illusion, And it would work just fine. All you would have to do is prepare spells that give you the flavor you need.
Being able to cast from Appearance Just enhances the feeling that it's beauty and sexiness just bends reality.
It still has to learn HOW with Spellcraft, but once it learns the spells, Ero-beams activate.


ALSO, using the geas spells would really be flavorful, if you are interested in the whole, contract law thing that is in occult lore. This can also be shown as doing favors.

"Casts geas"
"Aw, baby...Don't you just want to be my slave? I promise to love you and feed you, so long as you kill my enemies."

"Of course, my lady"

[Gwazi Magnum]

I'll probably drop the biting feats then and look for a more powerful prestige class.

Thanks for the help. :)

[Gwazi Magnum]

Actually as confirmed in another thread t
I can alter snap into a humanoid as a Dragonwrought Kobold.

So in that case would switching to Sorcerer be viable? It means less spells known but it means more spells per day and higher spells sooner.

I know the whole 'Convert Sorcerer to Wizard' trick. But I can't maximize the level gain till level 6 and am unsure as to if its still valid then or not.

[DMVerdandi]

Actually as confirmed in another thread t
I can alter snap into a humanoid as a Dragonwrought Kobold.

So in that case would switching to Sorcerer be viable? It means less spells known but it means more spells per day and higher spells sooner.

I know the whole 'Convert Sorcerer to Wizard' trick. But I can't maximize the level gain till level 6 and am unsure as to if its still valid then or not.

It is what it is.
Your HD will drop to 4 from 12, so you are going to have less HP, Again, as you said more spells per day, but sorcerers actually learn spells behind wizards. Wizards learn spells before sorcerers.


Personally, from my perspective, sorcerers have NOTHING on Spell point wizards (They cast like Archivists. Pick your spells per day, cast any one of them all day, so long as you have points to pay for it.).


Furthermore, Vancian casting has nothing on Spell points, short of automatic die from damage spells, but as you probably already know, doing damage is a meat shield's job.


Again, if you are unfamiliar this is how a spell point wizard works.

Regular wizard.
Has 4 level 1 slots.
Prepares
1.Shield
2.Mage armor
3.Burning hands
4.Burning hands

Each time he uses one of those, they are unusable slots until he prepares again for the next day.
If he uses shield, it's gone. If he uses mage armor, it's gone. If he uses burning hands, he has to use the other burning hands, as the first is gone.


Spell point wizard
Has 4 spell points. Can prepare 4 spells in the level 1 spell slot.
Prepares
1.shield
2.Mage armor
3.Burning hands
4. HYPNOTISM

Each 1st level spell costs 1 spell point to cast. With the Variant, spells prepared = Spells known for the day.
That means, that this wizard can spontaneously cast any spell that it prepares. It can cast shield 4 times, or mage armor twice, and burning hands twice, or hypnotism 4 times, or one of each.

It simply spends the SP on whatever it wants.
Taking that with eidetic spell caster means you have supreme flexibility. It is simply the best casting mechanic in the game. You will always have the ability to gain and learn more wiz/sorc spells, but you cast them like a sorcerer, and you will never be without your book.

[Gwazi Magnum]

So basically even though I'll gain higher levels spells sooner it's still better to be wizard simply because of the sheer amount of spells known?

[DMVerdandi]

So basically even though I'll gain higher levels spells sooner it's still better to be wizard simply because of the sheer amount of spells known?

You won't gain higher level spells sooner.
Sorcerers gain spell levels one level behind. For example
Wizards gain access to 4th level spells at level 7
Socerers gain access to 4th level spells at level 8


But yes, it is better to be a wizard because of spells known.

[Necroticplague]

you will have to convince your DM to allow generic classes alongside normal classes. they are stated to only be used if no normal classes exist.

Huh? Where's it say that? The closest I could find was 'If you use these generic classes, you shouldn't also use the standard character classes (or variants of those classes).', which is a strong suggestion at best.

[Gwazi Magnum]

You won't gain higher level spells sooner.
Sorcerers gain spell levels one level behind. For example
Wizards gain access to 4th level spells at level 7
Socerers gain access to 4th level spells at level 8


But yes, it is better to be a wizard because of spells known.

Except Dragonwrought Kobolds can gain up to 4 additional sorcerer levels.

So where Wizard's gain access to 4th level spells at level 7, Sorcerers will gain access at Level 4.
Roughly speaking, because one of the 4 bonus levels can't be applied until Level 6.