[3.5] paladin help

[Raezeman]

Greetings forum,

previous session basically started with my raptoran sorcerer dying due to arrows to the face (near party wipe in general), i'm in need of a new character, and my choice has fallen onto the paladin (of freedom, the chaotic good variant). And i would like the help of you gents and ladies with that. I have looked up stuff already, and please no 'paladin sucks, take something else' advice please, nor the 'just two levels for divine grace' either.

The advice i am looking for is more specific for what to do with the stats i have rolled, and what race i have chosen. I have a current 'build' ready, but it could use some improvement and suggestions, though i'm not needing to optimize. So here goes:

As the stats are not that good, i thought taking the holy warrior variant from complete champion (which replaces the spellcasting with certain bonus feats at 4th, 8th, 11th and 14th level) in order to not need wisdom at all. My current thought is to distribute them as such.

STR: 18
DEX: 10
CON: 12
INT: 9
WIS: 10
CHA: 15

As race, i was thinking wild elf (+2 DEX, -2 INT). I would prefer being some sort of elf or half-elf, for story and roll play purposes, so the wild part is not set in stone.

And finally, i was thinking being a two-hander power attacker. With this in mind, current feat build to be:

1: chaos devotion
3: good devotion
4: power attack
6: awesome smite
8: extra smite
9: extra turning
11: divine might


So, what say you? I repeat, the above is my current thinking, but nothing final yet. Any suggestions on what to chance, or maybe multi class or prestige class? Basically all prestige classes i found are with spellcasting, so that doesn't swing well. Also, what feats to take next, we start at level 9, so i'm 'set' for now, but i'd rather be prepared for future levels. Suggestions?

[Afgncaap5]

If the goal is to not need Wisdom at all, I'd almost suggest switching Wisdom and Intelligence. But that's more because I'm a fan of the "crafty warrior" archetype and not for any game benefit. Apart from, like, skill points.

[The Park Ranger]

Paladin sucks, just dip two for Divine Grace.





Kidding. I play a Paladin in Pathfinder, who uses a greatsword and heavy armor. He's fairly optimized, although I could probable squeeze some more damage out of him if I min/maxed, but that's not really my thing. Because of some difference between Pathfinder and 3.5, some of my advice might not be perfectly accurate, so just bear with me. I'm just advising from my experience of playing a Paladin.

At this point, you need to decide what exact build you want. Power Attack is gold, and I'd probably advise you to get it at first level, and then Chaos and Good Devotion. Cleave is good at lower levels, when you're fighting mobs of goblins, but loses some effectiveness later on. If you can take it now and sub it out later, I'd consider it.

As for stats, they look alright. I'd swap the Wisdom and Intelligence, as having a few more skills is good. Because of your amazing saves as a Paladin, the extra Will is going to come in handy less than having more skills. Going for Half-Elf would probably be a good choice, because your Constitution is a bit low for someone who's going to be in the middle of a fight, so I'd put the +2 into Con.

With your 2-3 skill points per level, I'd max Diplomacy, which always comes in handy. Otherwise, my approach is to put a point into most of my class skills and pick another skill to put the rest of your points into. My Paladin has good Intelligence, so I'm able to have good bonuses in several skills, which are always handy. However, if you're only starting with 9/10 Intelligence, I wouldn't try too hard to raise the Paladin's Intelligence. 10 should be fine.

Anyways, since my Paladin is in Pathfinder, take this with a pinch of salt. I've been playing him for a while, so this is just what I've learned from experience.

[Blackhawk748]

Honestly you look ok, generally i would recommend a Lion Spirit Totem Barbarian dip (cuz pounce and Rage are sweet) but other than that, i have little to add.

[Raezeman]

Paladin sucks, just dip two for Divine Grace.


you had me there



Kidding. I play a Paladin in Pathfinder, who uses a greatsword and heavy armor. He's fairly optimized, although I could probable squeeze some more damage out of him if I min/maxed, but that's not really my thing. Because of some difference between Pathfinder and 3.5, some of my advice might not be perfectly accurate, so just bear with me. I'm just advising from my experience of playing a Paladin.


I play pathfinder with a different group, so i know what advice i can use and what advice will need some tweeking.



At this point, you need to decide what exact build you want. Power Attack is gold, and I'd probably advise you to get it at first level, and then Chaos and Good Devotion. Cleave is good at lower levels, when you're fighting mobs of goblins, but loses some effectiveness later on. If you can take it now and sub it out later, I'd consider it.


As we will be starting at level 9, it doesn't really matter what i take first. I did make it as a build however for some realism, and as the bonus feats for holy warrior variant don't allow anything, but power attack is one of the ones that is allowed for it, it's placed at level 4. The devotion feats are not allowed however, so they are the 'regulars' at level 1 and 3. Also, cleave will thus already have lost it's potency.



As for stats, they look alright. I'd swap the Wisdom and Intelligence, as having a few more skills is good. Because of your amazing saves as a Paladin, the extra Will is going to come in handy less than having more skills. Going for Half-Elf would probably be a good choice, because your Constitution is a bit low for someone who's going to be in the middle of a fight, so I'd put the +2 into Con.


Unfortunately, half-elfs in 3.5 don't get to chose an ability to get +2 to. They don't get any bonus to ability at all. Also the reason i don't want to play a standard elf is that they get -2 to CON.



With your 2-3 skill points per level, I'd max Diplomacy, which always comes in handy. Otherwise, my approach is to put a point into most of my class skills and pick another skill to put the rest of your points into. My Paladin has good Intelligence, so I'm able to have good bonuses in several skills, which are always handy. However, if you're only starting with 9/10 Intelligence, I wouldn't try too hard to raise the Paladin's Intelligence. 10 should be fine.


I also prefer a +1 to Will (even if devine grace already gives me a boost there) over the extra skill point. And if i take the wild elf, i will get a -2 to INT, but you get 1 skill point per level minimum, so there is not much difference between a 9 and a 7 on that score (to me atleast). So i think i'll stick with the 9 on int (what will become 7 for wild elf)



Anyways, since my Paladin is in Pathfinder, take this with a pinch of salt. I've been playing him for a while, so this is just what I've learned from experience.

Thanks for the advice!

[Raezeman]

Honestly you look ok, generally i would recommend a Lion Spirit Totem Barbarian dip (cuz pounce and Rage are sweet) but other than that, i have little to add.

1 Level dip for pounce is unfortunately something my DM would never allow.

[Blackhawk748]

1 Level dip for pounce is unfortunately something my DM would never allow.

Aw :smallfrown: Well Whirling Frenzy is still sweet and Movement speed isnt bad, also cant argue with a d12 HD.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Go Cloistered Cleric 1/ Paladin of Freedom 19. Get the Inquisition domain, Knowledge Devotion, and Chaos Devotion from Cloistered Cleric, and put one rank in every skill that's used for Knowledge Devotion so it always gives you a +1 bonus against every opponent. Trade your Paladin turn undead for Divine Counterspell in CM, your knowledge devotion class skill should be Arcana and you should have at least five ranks in that for the bonus to divine counterspell. Get Practiced Spellcaster for one or the other, whichever one is up to personal preference, so you can take Divine Defiance from FC2. This allows you to spend one of your Cleric turn undead uses to attempt a counterspell as an immediate action, and you use Divine Counterspell for that attempt so you don't even need to make a Spellcraft check, plus your Inquisition domain power gives you a bonus to the check. This basically makes your character a superb anti-spellcaster without sacrificing any combat capabilities.

This build (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?275093-its-a-villain-sort-of#5) uses that plus a ton of other tricks, and here's the obligatory fear handbook (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=3809) to go with it.

Since you'll be starting at 9th level, I'll recommend using a level adjusted race and begin play with that level adjustment already bought off (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/reducingLevelAdjustments.htm). Draconic Creature in Draconomicon/RotD gives +2 to Str, Dex, and Cha, plus a few other benefits, and buys off for just 3k xp. Even better, you can gradually gain the Half-Fey template (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20040213a), each level counts as a point of level adjustment and you don't have to gain them in uninterrupted succession (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20030824a). Paladin 1/ Half-Fey 1/ Paladin 3 (buy off +1 LA for 4k xp)/ Half-Fey 1/ Paladin 3 (buy off +1 LA for 7k xp)/ Paladin 1+ will give you all the half-fey benefits and you'll only be down a total of 11k xp. You'll be at least a full level behind but you'll gain more xp per encounter and should catch back up, plus if you get Item Familiar (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/magic/itemFamiliars.htm) you'll get a 10% bonus to your current and future xp, which would have applied before spending that 7k, so for example starting at the minimum 36k you'll instead have 28,200 xp after buying off a gradually gained +2 LA and having an item familiar, which is still 8th level, and you'll catch up that much faster with the item familiar bonus.

[Raezeman]

Go Cloistered Cleric 1/ Paladin of Freedom 19. Get the Inquisition domain, Knowledge Devotion, and Chaos Devotion from Cloistered Cleric, and put one rank in every skill that's used for Knowledge Devotion so it always gives you a +1 bonus against every opponent. Trade your Paladin turn undead for Divine Counterspell in CM, your knowledge devotion class skill should be Arcana and you should have at least five ranks in that for the bonus to divine counterspell. Get Practiced Spellcaster for one or the other, whichever one is up to personal preference, so you can take Divine Defiance from FC2. This allows you to spend one of your Cleric turn undead uses to attempt a counterspell as an immediate action, and you use Divine Counterspell for that attempt so you don't even need to make a Spellcraft check, plus your Inquisition domain power gives you a bonus to the check. This basically makes your character a superb anti-spellcaster without sacrificing any combat capabilities.

This build (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?275093-its-a-villain-sort-of#5) uses that plus a ton of other tricks, and here's the obligatory fear handbook (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=3809) to go with it.


It's nice indeed, and i have made builds that use the '1 level cleric for turning and domain feats' before, made them just for fun. But i'd rather not use it for a character, unless it is somehow needed for a prestige class, as especially with the domain feats it feels like using a little overlooked flaw in the rules...



Since you'll be starting at 9th level, I'll recommend using a level adjusted race and begin play with that level adjustment already bought off (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/reducingLevelAdjustments.htm). Draconic Creature in Draconomicon/RotD gives +2 to Str, Dex, and Cha, plus a few other benefits, and buys off for just 3k xp. Even better, you can gradually gain the Half-Fey template (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20040213a), each level counts as a point of level adjustment and you don't have to gain them in uninterrupted succession (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20030824a). Paladin 1/ Half-Fey 1/ Paladin 3 (buy off +1 LA for 4k xp)/ Half-Fey 1/ Paladin 3 (buy off +1 LA for 7k xp)/ Paladin 1+ will give you all the half-fey benefits and you'll only be down a total of 11k xp. You'll be at least a full level behind but you'll gain more xp per encounter and should catch back up, plus if you get Item Familiar (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/magic/itemFamiliars.htm) you'll get a 10% bonus to your current and future xp, which would have applied before spending that 7k, so for example starting at the minimum 36k you'll instead have 28,200 xp after buying off a gradually gained +2 LA and having an item familiar, which is still 8th level, and you'll catch up that much faster with the item familiar bonus.

Afraid level adjusted race is also no-go.

[endur]

As the stats are not that good, i thought taking the holy warrior variant from complete champion (which replaces the spellcasting with certain bonus feats at 4th, 8th, 11th and 14th level) in order to not need wisdom at all.
STR: 18
DEX: 10
CON: 12
INT: 9
WIS: 10
CHA: 15


Assuming you can move your rolls around, I would probably go with:
STR: 15
DEX: 10
CON: 10
INT: 9
WIS: 12
CHA: 18

Yes, Str 18 means you will do more damage in combat, but Chr 18 means you survive more saving throws.
Wis 12, Con 10 vs Con 12, Wis 10 is pretty close. Pick wis 12 if going with the spellcaster variant, Con 12 if going with the bonus feats.

I like the spell casting better than the extra feats ... Yes, regular paladins don't have very many feats, but some of the pure paladin spells (bless weapon, holy sword) are very nice. If your campaign has magic item shops, purchasing scrolls and wands of the pure paladin spells can be one of the best uses of your gold.

Before making a final decision on the paladin of freedom class, talk to your GM and find out whether Holy Avengers exist in your campaign and whether a CG paladin can use one. If there is a holy avenger that your character can obtain, that is something to consider.

[Raezeman]

Assuming you can move your rolls around, I would probably go with:
Before making a final decision on the paladin of freedom class, talk to your GM and find out whether Holy Avengers exist in your campaign and whether a CG paladin can use one. If there is a holy avenger that your character can obtain, that is something to consider.

holy avenger would be from which book?

[Vhaidara]

holy avenger would be from which book?

Dungeon Master's Guide. +2 Cold Iron Longsword (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/magicWeapons.htm#holyAvenger) that gets badass when a paladin picks it up.

[Solaris]

Your DM won't let you take a dip of barbarian for pounce - what kind of restrictions does he have on dipping classes?

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

It's nice indeed, and i have made builds that use the '1 level cleric for turning and domain feats' before, made them just for fun. But i'd rather not use it for a character, unless it is somehow needed for a prestige class, as especially with the domain feats it feels like using a little overlooked flaw in the rules...

There's Prestige Paladin (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/prestigiousCharacterClasses.htm#prestigePaladin), which could be adapted to Paladin of Freedom, though it wouldn't work with the Divine Defiance/Divine Counterspell trick.

There's actually a few good Cha-based prestige class options, particularly Divine Crusader in CD, which is superb with the Wrath domain in SC. A build I'm fond of goes Paladin 4/ Bone Knight 4/ Divine Crusader 1 /Bone Knight 6/ (divine casting/extra domain PrCs) 5. Bone Knight is in Five Nations, but it could be adapted to other settings. Just going Paladin 7 into Divine Crusader is decent, you can pick up more domains from prestige classes to get access to additional spells. Be sure to include a dip in Seeker of the Misty Isle.

You could just stick with Paladin and go with a Charging Smite build. Charging Smite in PH2 adds an extra two damage per Paladin level, in addition to the normal one damage per Paladin level that Smite Evil normally gets. Paladins get Rhino's Rush on their spell list, which doubles the damage of your next charge attack. You can put it on a wand and have a wand chamber on your weapon, since Rules Compendium says wands have the same activation time as the spell's casting time. At 9th level with Rhino's Rush your Charging Smite ends up adding 54 damage to the attack. You can get a Valorous weapon from Unapproachable East (+1 bonus cost) which makes the weapon deal double damage on a charge, so combined with Rhino's Rush you'll triple your charging damage, so Charging Smite ends up giving you 81 damage. Though sticking with Paladin I would prefer the Cleric dip to also be good at counterspelling, especially considering how much of an underdog class it is, and it can easily be explained with the character having been raised in the church as a student of religion, but taking up arms out of necessity. It's your character though, build and play him how you want to.

[Raezeman]

Assuming you can move your rolls around, I would probably go with:
STR: 15
DEX: 10
CON: 10
INT: 9
WIS: 12
CHA: 18

Yes, Str 18 means you will do more damage in combat, but Chr 18 means you survive more saving throws.
Wis 12, Con 10 vs Con 12, Wis 10 is pretty close. Pick wis 12 if going with the spellcaster variant, Con 12 if going with the bonus feats.

As we start at level 9, we get 2 ability points already, one of which will turn that 15 into a 16. So the difference in modifier is only 1. I see your point of CHA>STR, but i will also take the budget for stat boosting items into account. I'm very surely going for the non-caster varient. I have a build for paladin going bone knight (which needs spellcasting), but that one will be when i have some better stats, so i don't have to 'waste' a decent stat on INT so i can get enough skill points to even be able to enter bone knight at a decent level.



I like the spell casting better than the extra feats ... Yes, regular paladins don't have very many feats, but some of the pure paladin spells (bless weapon, holy sword) are very nice. If your campaign has magic item shops, purchasing scrolls and wands of the pure paladin spells can be one of the best uses of your gold.

So yeah, non caster pretty sure by now. Caster paladin will become a bone knight and he needs 12 INT for enough skill points, meaning 10 WIS goes to WIS (if i don't want to bring crap to STR, CON and CHA) meaning i have to by a stat boosting item to even cast the spell. The bone knight will also probably not be an elf.



Before making a final decision on the paladin of freedom class, talk to your GM and find out whether Holy Avengers exist in your campaign and whether a CG paladin can use one. If there is a holy avenger that your character can obtain, that is something to consider.
Dungeon Master's Guide. +2 Cold Iron Longsword (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/magicWeapons.htm#holyAvenger) that gets badass when a paladin picks it up.

sweet. Pretty sure my DM would let that one work with a paladin of freedom.

Thanks for all!

[Raezeman]

Your DM won't let you take a dip of barbarian for pounce - what kind of restrictions does he have on dipping classes?

I think he would be fine for most dips, but one single level for pounce, i can more than understand why that is not allowed.

[Raezeman]

There's Prestige Paladin (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/prestigiousCharacterClasses.htm#prestigePaladin), which could be adapted to Paladin of Freedom, though it wouldn't work with the Divine Defiance/Divine Counterspell trick.

There's actually a few good Cha-based prestige class options, particularly Divine Crusader in CD, which is superb with the Wrath domain in SC. A build I'm fond of goes Paladin 4/ Bone Knight 4/ Divine Crusader 1 /Bone Knight 6/ (divine casting/extra domain PrCs) 5. Bone Knight is in Five Nations, but it could be adapted to other settings. Just going Paladin 7 into Divine Crusader is decent, you can pick up more domains from prestige classes to get access to additional spells. Be sure to include a dip in Seeker of the Misty Isle.

You could just stick with Paladin and go with a Charging Smite build. Charging Smite in PH2 adds an extra two damage per Paladin level, in addition to the normal one damage per Paladin level that Smite Evil normally gets. Paladins get Rhino's Rush on their spell list, which doubles the damage of your next charge attack. You can put it on a wand and have a wand chamber on your weapon, since Rules Compendium says wands have the same activation time as the spell's casting time. At 9th level with Rhino's Rush your Charging Smite ends up adding 54 damage to the attack. You can get a Valorous weapon from Unapproachable East (+1 bonus cost) which makes the weapon deal double damage on a charge, so combined with Rhino's Rush you'll triple your charging damage, so Charging Smite ends up giving you 81 damage. Though sticking with Paladin I would prefer the Cleric dip to also be good at counterspelling, especially considering how much of an underdog class it is, and it can easily be explained with the character having been raised in the church as a student of religion, but taking up arms out of necessity. It's your character though, build and play him how you want to.

OK, your mentioning of divine crusader changes everything. EVERYTHING! The wrath domain is great, but which god's can take it? i mean, can a chaotic good character get access to it? anyway, even without wrath domain, divine crusader seems to go very nice with the start of paladin. Though it takes the smite away... You've been great mate, thanks for all the help

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Joramy is the Greyhawk goddess of fire, volcanoes, wrath, etc., she's neutral aligned with neutral good tendencies, and allies herself with good aligned deities such as Pelor. She could be a fitting patron for a Paladin of Freedom/Divine Crusader with the Wrath domain.

[Raezeman]

Joramy is the Greyhawk goddess of fire, volcanoes, wrath, etc., she's neutral aligned with neutral good tendencies, and allies herself with good aligned deities such as Pelor. She could be a fitting patron for a Paladin of Freedom/Divine Crusader with the Wrath domain.

Neutral with neutral good tendencies is not really enough for 'allignment must match chosen diety' and chaotic good. However, Kord, the chaotic good god of strength seems to have the competition domain:
1.Remove Fear
2.Zeal
3.Prayer
4.Divine Power
5.Righteous Might
6.Zealot Pact
7.Regenerate
8.Moment of Prescience
9.Visage of the Deity, Greater

So how about this build then:
paladin 7/ divine crusader 10, with the competition domain

feats
1: chaos devotion
3: good devotion
4: power attack
6: weapon focus
9: extra turning
12: melee weapon mastery (specialisation from divine crusader 5)
15: quicken spell
18: divine might

I was also thinking 2 pious templar levels and thus only 5 paladin levels, but the true believer doesn't seem worth it, or does it?

[Lerondiel]

Neutral with neutral good tendencies is not really enough for 'allignment must match chosen diety' and chaotic good. However, Kord, the chaotic good god of strength seems to have the competition domain:
1.Remove Fear
2.Zeal
3.Prayer
4.Divine Power
5.Righteous Might
6.Zealot Pact
7.Regenerate
8.Moment of Prescience
9.Visage of the Deity, Greater

So how about this build then:
paladin 7/ divine crusader 10, with the competition domain

feats
1: chaos devotion
3: good devotion
4: power attack
6: weapon focus
9: extra turning
12: melee weapon mastery (specialisation from divine crusader 5)
15: quicken spell
18: divine might

I was also thinking 2 pious templar levels and thus only 5 paladin levels, but the true believer doesn't seem worth it, or does it?

When it buys Mettle to go with Divine Grace? worth it everytime...

love the 180 turn...."I'm very surely going for the non-caster varient." into "Ooooooh level 9 spells!" :D

nice build...with more reasons for your charisma to be #1 stat, the old polymorph wand under your buffs is looking pretty good!

[Raezeman]

When it buys Mettle to go with Divine Grace? worth it everytime...

Actually yeah, i don't think i really need extra turning, do i?



love the 180 turn...."I'm very surely going for the non-caster varient." into "Ooooooh level 9 spells!" :D
nice build!

yeah, 180 turn indeed. I have a paladin with casting build ready in the form of bone knight, which thus needs wisdom for casting and even some INT to get enough skill point for earliest entry, and with my stats these are not possible, but then a genius brought forth divine crusader, aka arcane caster with easy entry requirements en my eye fell on the competition domain, so yeah, casting baby!

[DMVerdandi]

I mean... Why not just play a cleric at this point.
If you are interested in the smiting, clerics can switch turn/rebuke for smiting. And then they can spontaneously cast domain spells.

Maybe play a cleric of competition and courage(or war).
Pick up intuitive attack feat, and take a monk's belt, then switch that 19 to wisdom.
THEN take two levels of prestige paladin[freedom variant] later, so can get divine grace, turn undead and then the serenity feat (wis to divine grace, turn undead)

And then maybe finish the rest with sacred exorcist.



Cleric 8/Prestige paladin 2/Sacred Exorcist 10

[Raezeman]

I mean... Why not just play a cleric at this point.
If you are interested in the smiting, clerics can switch turn/rebuke for smiting. And then they can spontaneously cast domain spells.

Maybe play a cleric of competition and courage(or war).
Pick up intuitive attack feat, and take a monk's belt, then switch that 19 to wisdom.
THEN take two levels of prestige paladin[freedom variant] later, so can get divine grace, turn undead and then the serenity feat (wis to divine grace, turn undead)

And then maybe finish the rest with sacred exorcist.



Cleric 8/Prestige paladin 2/Sacred Exorcist 10

I'm not going Cleric due to my stats of 18,15,12,10,10,9. If i put the 12 into CON (not really enough for my taste, but i let it slide this time) that leaves me with 2 stats to work with. A paladin with CHA casting synergy can work with this. A cleric needs more. I'm planning to wreck the world with a cleric going ordained champion one day, but not this guy.

[Sam K]

OK, your mentioning of divine crusader changes everything. EVERYTHING! The wrath domain is great, but which god's can take it? i mean, can a chaotic good character get access to it? anyway, even without wrath domain, divine crusader seems to go very nice with the start of paladin. Though it takes the smite away... You've been great mate, thanks for all the help

Smite is a pretty horrid ability: iconic, yes, but limited uses and fairly lackluster damage. Get yourself some level 9 goodness instead! :)

[Raezeman]

Smite is a pretty horrid ability: iconic, yes, but limited uses and fairly lackluster damage. Get yourself some level 9 goodness instead! :)

Let's just see if my divine palasader survives this long :P Though the fact that Kethro (my raptoran sorcerer that just died) leveled 9 times (from 1 all the way to 10) does give me some hope.

[atemu1234]

Check out my Sorcadin build here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?386567-Sorcadin-Build-Advice&highlight=sorcadin&p=18492208#post18492208). I like to think it works well.

[Vhaidara]

I'm not going Cleric due to my stats of 18,15,12,10,10,9. If i put the 12 into CON (not really enough for my taste, but i let it slide this time) that leaves me with 2 stats to work with. A paladin with CHA casting synergy can work with this.

I think you have this backwards. Paladins need more stats than Clerics. A Cleric with an 18 Wis and otherwise straight 10s is more powerful than a Paladin with straight 18s, because of the strength of spells.

[Raezeman]

I think you have this backwards. Paladins need more stats than Clerics. A Cleric with an 18 Wis and otherwise straight 10s is more powerful than a Paladin with straight 18s, because of the strength of spells.

Well sure, Cleric triumphs over paladin, that is true. But a 18 WIS straight 10s cleric doesn't seem, how do i say this, right somehow, i mean, if i play a battle cleric, I want him to have some STR to begin with, CHA to fuel those devotion and divine feats and ofcourse CON for all the obvious reasons. Having a paladin with (limited) CHA casting, combined with only 2 good attributes to STR and CHA and non-junk CON sounds much pleasanter here. And hey, otherwise i promise of this guy dies, the next guy will be a raptoran cleric-skypledged-ordained champion or something (the brother of my sorcerer raptoran that died, vowing vengeance for his fallen sibling).

[xkaliburr]

Actually, a great prestige class for paladins if you are looking for smite is Fist of Raziel from the Book of Exalted Deeds.

It gives you 5 smites over 10 levels, each with different special abilities. It advancing spelcasting for a divine caster. While this is not optimal for your build, as you are not looking at the spellcasting, you can take the holy mount feat from Dragon Magazine, which will advance your mount as though each divine spell casting class was a paladin level. It can get pretty silly delivering a smite with a lance on a charge with this class.