Elemental Familiar Questions

[McThunderpants]

Hello Playground, first time poster, long time lurker here with a question. I'm sorry if this is the wrong place or if this question was asked recently, I couldn't find any info anywhere on this topic. So one of my players is a very fire-based sorcerer (half red dragon, almost all fire based spells, pyromaniac, etc), and as such, he chose a fire elemental as a familiar. My question is, does a fire elemental grow in size if it's a familiar? According to the Monster Manual, elementals grow bigger based on HD, and a familiar uses its master's HD for special effects related to HD, but I was wondering if this counts. The DM's guide lists an example of one that's still small size at five HD, but I know that dragon familiars can grow bigger if they age enough, so I was unsure.
My second question is, if the familiar doesn't grow bigger, would a homebrew feat that allows it to do such be too over-powered? I'm unsure, because while he would get bigger and do more damage, he'd also be a bigger target and would still only have half his master's health. Thank you guys for the help in advance!

[Thrice Dead Cat]

Familiars do not actually gain HD, so no.

[malonkey1]

My second question is, if the familiar doesn't grow bigger, would a homebrew feat that allows it to do such be too over-powered? I'm unsure, because while he would get bigger and do more damage, he'd also be a bigger target and would still only have half his master's health. Thank you guys for the help in advance!

I'd say that it wouldn't be too OP...Provided it was limited to one size gain.

[sideswipe]

i would allow improved familiar to let it gain size and HD. since you only get to the CR 7 one pre epic. give it new stats as it reaches the HD of the next biggest elemental.

[Bronk]

Hello Playground, first time poster, long time lurker here with a question. I'm sorry if this is the wrong place or if this question was asked recently, I couldn't find any info anywhere on this topic. So one of my players is a very fire-based sorcerer (half red dragon, almost all fire based spells, pyromaniac, etc), and as such, he chose a fire elemental as a familiar. My question is, does a fire elemental grow in size if it's a familiar? According to the Monster Manual, elementals grow bigger based on HD, and a familiar uses its master's HD for special effects related to HD, but I was wondering if this counts. The DM's guide lists an example of one that's still small size at five HD, but I know that dragon familiars can grow bigger if they age enough, so I was unsure.
My second question is, if the familiar doesn't grow bigger, would a homebrew feat that allows it to do such be too over-powered? I'm unsure, because while he would get bigger and do more damage, he'd also be a bigger target and would still only have half his master's health. Thank you guys for the help in advance!

They wouldn't normally gain size, since they don't gain any actual HD. They 'effects' that a familiar uses the master's HD for are spells and things like that. As the DM, you could change that rule in your game though. Oh, or you could use that spell that turns a regular familiar into an elemental version!

Dragons as familiars follow their own rules, age normally, and actually stop being familiars once they age out of being a wyrmling (5 years old)...

[Bad Wolf]

Hello Playground, first time poster, long time lurker here with a question. I'm sorry if this is the wrong place or if this question was asked recently, I couldn't find any info anywhere on this topic. So one of my players is a very fire-based sorcerer (half red dragon, almost all fire based spells, pyromaniac, etc), and as such, he chose a fire elemental as a familiar. My question is, does a fire elemental grow in size if it's a familiar? According to the Monster Manual, elementals grow bigger based on HD, and a familiar uses its master's HD for special effects related to HD, but I was wondering if this counts. The DM's guide lists an example of one that's still small size at five HD, but I know that dragon familiars can grow bigger if they age enough, so I was unsure.
My second question is, if the familiar doesn't grow bigger, would a homebrew feat that allows it to do such be too over-powered? I'm unsure, because while he would get bigger and do more damage, he'd also be a bigger target and would still only have half his master's health. Thank you guys for the help in advance!

How'd he get the familiar?

[McThunderpants]

Thank you all for the help. I guess I should have mentioned earlier that I have plans for this campaign to go epic after this part is complete, sort of a time skip thing, so when that starts off, the master would have enough HD, if I do that homebrew feat thing, for the familiar to be an Elder Fire Elemental. It would make him very powerful for a familiar, but since they'd be epic anyway, I don't know if he'd be too strong by comparison.

[Bronk]

Thank you all for the help. I guess I should have mentioned earlier that I have plans for this campaign to go epic after this part is complete, sort of a time skip thing, so when that starts off, the master would have enough HD, if I do that homebrew feat thing, for the familiar to be an Elder Fire Elemental. It would make him very powerful for a familiar, but since they'd be epic anyway, I don't know if he'd be too strong by comparison.

Well, if you don't care about him having a powerful familiar, and he already has a fire elemental familiar... maybe you could devise a special elemental familiar spell...

https://www.wizards.com/dnd/article.asp?x=dnd/sb/sb20011109a

...that, instead of turning a regular familiar into an elemental that looks like the old familiar, could turn his fire elemental familiar into the shape of another one! Maybe a bird that could actually fly? (The spell as is would turn the bird into a fire elemental that looks like a bird but can't fly, because fire elementals can't fly) Then, when he jumps forward in time, it could look like a giant phoenix. Wait, I think that's a plot point from the old Conan the Barbarian cartoon. Still, something like that.

[JDL]

As per the opening paragraph for familiars:


Familiars
A familiar is a normal animal that gains new powers and becomes a magical beast when summoned to service by a sorcerer or wizard. It retains the appearance, Hit Dice, base attack bonus, base save bonuses, skills, and feats of the normal animal it once was, but it is treated as a magical beast instead of an animal for the purpose of any effect that depends on its type. Only a normal, unmodified animal may become a familiar. An animal companion cannot also function as a familiar.

The paragraph which follows regarding effects related to hit dice mean any spell or other ability that works based on the hit dice of a creature, such as the Sleep spell. The creature itself remains the same as the base form it was when taken as a familiar, merely gaining the bonuses appropriate for the master's class level. Familiars, unlike animal companions or cohorts, do not gain additional hit dice or the benefits related to them (such as increased skill ranks, BAB etc).

[Zaydos]

I'd allow a feat to get larger and larger elementals in a heart beat. Whether I'd allow Elder depends somewhat on level, and I might make it an Epic Feat for that, but it's 2 eats for something that still needs heavy buffs to be useful in combat, though with Elder Elemental it no longer needs to be polymorphed/shapechanged. That said sub-epic I'd make you have a few levels penalty (not medium till ~8th level, large till ~12th, maybe huge at 16th maybe a delay).

[Milo v3]

How'd he get the familiar?

The Improved Familiar feat allows you to get Small Elemental familiars.

[lsfreak]

For the record, UA allows a wizard to trade their familiar for a druid's animal companion at half-druid level, then CM allows a druid to trade their animal companion for an elemental. For a druid:
1st level: Small
4th level: Medium
10th level: Large, or +2HD, +2Str, +2Con, DR5/-.
16th level: Huge, or +4HD, +4Str, +4Con, DR5/- (DR is non-stacking).

I'd say for the price of feat, you could easily count it as a full druid level. Maybe even at +1 level or something, or with additional minor bonuses.
EDIT: I guess there is already a feat to make animal companions count as +3 druid levels, up to your character level (Natural Bond, CAdv). But I wouldn't say just making you count as full druid is breaking anything.

[Solaris]

I'd say that it wouldn't be too OP...Provided it was limited to one size gain.

One size gain per time taking the feat would be a good thing, I think, though having the feat scale with caster level might not be a bad idea either. Remember, this is a feat tax to essentially let the character's biggest vulnerability do something in combat where it's most vulnerable.

If you have the Revised Bestiary of Krynn, McThunderpants, elemental minions might be a good idea, too. They're similar to elementals, but are configured more along the lines of warriors.

[Mr Adventurer]

He's a sorcerer with the half-dragon template, he needs any help he can get...

[McThunderpants]

Thanks again for all the help everyone. I think I'm going to make the feat that allows the familiar to grow bigger as the master increases in power a thing if he really wants to make it stronger. I figure that since they'd be epic level anyway, an elder fire elemental won't be too much help, especially since it wouldn't have nearly as much health as a normal elder fire elemental and those are only CR 11. If he's willing to burn a feat on making it a bit tougher, I'm willing to make that a thing for him.