Assume Supernatural Ability

[Lloyd-Starbuck]

Hi i was looking through savage species and saw the Assume Supernatural Ability feat. after reading it over and over again i can't tell if it lets you chose a different Supernatural Ability every time you wildshape, or you have to chose a monster and only pick one of their Supernatural Ability and be restricted to that ability. I already look at other forums about this topic but really did not answer the question. I would say that it lets you chose a different Supernatural Ability every time you wildshape due to how its worded in savage species

"You learn to use a single supernatural ability of another kind of creature while assuming its form through a polymorph self spell or a similar effect."

To me this does not mean i'm restricted to one creature Supernatural Ability, because it does not specifically state that. then there the part where you can take the feat multiple time but my opinion is that can gain another one of the monster Supernatural Ability. I know this could maybe break the game. i just what to know whats you guys opinion on this feat are, does it work the way i think it does or i'm not looking at it right.

[WhamBamSam]

My reading is that it's one Su ability of one creature, not one ability per creature. However, Metamorphic Transfer does explicitly let you choose a Su ability with each transformation, and can be qualified for on a non-Psionic class with a little chicanery.

[Chronos]

It says "you learn to use a single supernatural ability". That's what the feat gives you: A single ability. That single ability you learn is then only usable when in the appropriate form.

As WBS said, though, Metamorphic Transfer clearly does not have this restriction, and even lets you choose multiple abilities on a single day. So you could, for instance, use Alter Self to become a changeling and gain its Minor Change Shape ability, then use Minor Change Shape to become a zodar and gain its Wish ability.

[Lloyd-Starbuck]

It says "you learn to use a single supernatural ability". That's what the feat gives you: A single ability. That single ability you learn is then only usable when in the appropriate form.

I understand what your saying but it says "You learn to use a single supernatural ability of another kind of creature while assuming its form through a polymorph self spell or a similar effect." it does not say (chose a supernatural ability of a creature, you may only use this supernatural ability). it says nothing of being restricted to one creature.

[Crake]

It says "you learn to use a single supernatural ability". That's what the feat gives you: A single ability. That single ability you learn is then only usable when in the appropriate form.

As WBS said, though, Metamorphic Transfer clearly does not have this restriction, and even lets you choose multiple abilities on a single day. So you could, for instance, use Alter Self to become a changeling and gain its Minor Change Shape ability, then use Minor Change Shape to become a zodar and gain its Wish ability.

That's a bit arguable, since minor shape change doesn't change your form, merely how you look.

Honestly, I would say ask your DM to homebrew an arcane version of metamorphic transfer, since assume supernatural ability is 3.0, save yourself the hassle.

[Invader]

I understand what your saying but it says "You learn to use a single supernatural ability of another kind of creature while assuming its form through a polymorph self spell or a similar effect." it does not say (chose a supernatural ability of a creature, you may only use this supernatural ability). it says nothing of being restricted to one creature.

At best with your interpretation you could use a single SA that multiple creatures share. Any way you read it, it says you get a single SA ability.

[Lloyd-Starbuck]

Honestly, I would say ask your DM to homebrew an arcane version of metamorphic transfer, since assume supernatural ability is 3.0, save yourself the hassle.

Just wondering, how would an arcane version of metamorphic transfer work if i'm druid which is a divine spellcaster class.:smallconfused:

[Lloyd-Starbuck]

At best with your interpretation you could use a single SA that multiple creatures share. Any way you read it, it says you get a single SA ability.

sorry miss written my interpretation.

"You learn to use a single supernatural ability of another kind of creature while assuming its form."

what my interpretation of this feat is that I gain a single supernatural ability when assume a creatures form. it does not say that i'm restricted to that supernatural ability next time i assume the creature's form.

[Invader]

sorry miss written my interpretation.

"You learn to use a single supernatural ability of another kind of creature while assuming its form."

what my interpretation of this feat is that I gain a single supernatural ability when assume a creatures form. it does not say that i'm restricted to that supernatural ability next time i assume the creature's form.

Personally I see how it can be taken either way and it really probably should come down to your DMs decision. I think the problem is that if it only applies to a single SA then it's not really worth it (aside from a few broken instances that can be abused) and if it applies every time you take a new form then it's probably too strong. I think there's a happy medium somewhere but I don't think it's going to be RAW either way.

[Lloyd-Starbuck]

I agree with you that it either weak or powerful depending on how you look at it. I sorry if I seem to be persistent on my view, I'm building a druid/master of many form character and would like to get SA with it, i understand that most people would say this feat only works on one SA, it's just the "while assuming its form" part of the sentence that make believe that it changes every time you wildshape.

[Flickerdart]

I agree with you that it either weak or powerful depending on how you look at it. I sorry if I seem to be persistent on my view, I'm building a druid/master of many form character and would like to get SA with it, i understand that most people would say this feat only works on one SA, it's just the "while assuming its form" part of the sentence that make believe that it changes every time you wildshape.
So are you asking how it works, or are you telling us that you've decided it works this way? For a rules question, you seem to have presupposed what the answer is quite early on.

[Crake]

Just wondering, how would an arcane version of metamorphic transfer work if i'm druid which is a divine spellcaster class.:smallconfused:

I said arcane because sometimes i forget divine spellcasters are a thing. I meant a spellcaster version, as opposed to a psionic version. Same requirements, except the ML is replaced with a CL requirement

[Lloyd-Starbuck]

So are you asking how it works, or are you telling us that you've decided it works this way? For a rules question, you seem to have presupposed what the answer is quite early on.

Sorry about that. when i wrote this question i was asking how it works, but i guess i was hoping it worked the way i wanted it to. so if it only works on one specific SA, then i geuss it only works that way, it just make it a poor feats then, unless you chose OP SA.

On a side note, does anyone know how the Master of many form's Gargantuan size works with it's dragon wildshape ability, because i thought a druid could not wildshape into a creature that has a higher HD than his level, and all Gargantuan dragons are above 20 HD.

[WhamBamSam]

Sorry about that. when i wrote this question i was asking how it works, but i guess i was hoping it worked the way i wanted it to. so if it only works on one specific SA, then i geuss it only works that way, it just make it a poor feats then, unless you chose OP SA.

On a side note, does anyone know how the Master of many form's Gargantuan size works with it's dragon wildshape ability, because i thought a druid could not wildshape into a creature that has a higher HD than his level, and all Gargantuan dragons are above 20 HD.There are, to be fair, a ton of broken Su abilities. But yes, even though it's a loss of a feat compared to a human, you're better off being a Kalashtar or something so you can sneak your way to qualifying for Metamorphic Transfer. Or, if you're primarily interested in Dragons, take Dragon Wild Shape, as it gives you the Ex and Su abilities of any dragon you Wild Shape into, even if you go beyond the normal small and medium size limitations of the feat through Master of Many Forms.

Not all of them. The Ibrandlin in Monsters of Faerun is a 10HD Gargantuan Dragon, which I'm somewhat fond of for purposes that demand size and very little else. But in general, it just means you can't assume the forms of Gargantuan dragons, since nothing about that ability lets you break your Wild Shape HD cap.

[Lloyd-Starbuck]

I got one last question about Assume Supernatural Ability. Can i chose breath attack as the SA and gain breath attack of all creatures that have it(all dragons, Hydra, Hellhound), or do you have to chose a specific creature and breath attack(Red dragon-fire breath attack).

[WhamBamSam]

I'd say the latter. It does say another creature, after all. You might even have to choose the specific age of Red Dragon whose breath weapon you want to emulate, though that's a little more of a grey area.