How to death knight

[Shadowscale]

As Death knights are the melee equivalent of liches, I was curious if there was a way to become one through either ritual or class. With Walker in the wastes and dread necromancer existing for liches and etc.

[atemu1234]

Nope. Not as far as i know. In essence, like all melee in d&d it's less loved than its spellcasting equivalent.

[TheTeaMustFlow]

The Bone Knight PrC from Five Nations would be a pretty good way to emulate a Death Knight stylistically. It's a Full BaB, 9/10 divine caster that wears armour made out of bones (that eventually fuses to their body) and gets undead-related abilities, including most of the immunities.

Incidentally, it's also one of the only ways for a good-aligned character to get rebuking.

[Reprimand]

As Death knights are the melee equivalent of liches, I was curious if there was a way to become one through either ritual or class. With Walker in the wastes and dread necromancer existing for liches and etc.

Are we talking wc3/WoW deathknight here?

It may be possible to just refluff the character as sentiant undead without changing anything rules wise. I know pathfinder has a "lich" template for warriors I'll see if I can find it.

EDIT: found it http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/templates/graveknight-cr-2

[torrasque666]

Are we talking wc3/WoW deathknight here?

It may be possible to just refluff the character as sentiant undead without changing anything rules wise. I know pathfinder has a "lich" template for warriors I'll see if I can find it.

EDIT: found it http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/templates/graveknight-cr-2

I think OP was talking about the Death Knight (MM2, p 207)

[Shadowscale]

The Bone Knight PrC from Five Nations would be a pretty good way to emulate a Death Knight stylistically. It's a Full BaB, 9/10 divine caster that wears armour made out of bones (that eventually fuses to their body) and gets undead-related abilities, including most of the immunities.

Incidentally, it's also one of the only ways for a good-aligned character to get rebuking.

Would the necropolitian template on a full Bone knight Blackguard be fitting flavor and ability wise?

[Murmaider]

Would the necropolitian template on a full Bone knight Blackguard be fitting flavor and ability wise?

The only thing going for a Bone Knight is that he gets more(not stronger) undead to control in exchange for a caster level. The stylish armor won't help much if you're already undead, because it just gives resistances and immunities to stuff you already had resistances and immunities to.
Bone Knight only has 3/4 BAB as well.

[Shadowscale]

The only thing going for a Bone Knight is that he gets more(not stronger) undead to control in exchange for a caster level. The stylish armor won't help much if you're already undead, because it just gives resistances and immunities to stuff you already had resistances and immunities to.
Bone Knight only has 3/4 BAB as well.

So let's assume say a human blackguard 10/Bone knight 10

Is this a bad build due to lower BAB? Its the closest to the fluff and crunch of a deathknight I can think of.

[WhamBamSam]

Would the necropolitian template on a full Bone knight Blackguard be fitting flavor and ability wise?A lot of Bone Knight class abilities are redundant for an actual undead. The horse and the undead army stuff is nice, so it could work, but if you're going to be Necropolitan anyway, I'd reccommend the Horned Harbinger prestige class from Faiths and Pantheons.

Or, as far as "melee Lich" type templates go, I'm a big fan of Dracolich. You can even acquire it as a standard race if you have Polymorph or Essence of the Dragon cast on you for a duration long enough to drink Dracolich Brew. It claims to be a template for spellcasters, but that's clearly nonsense, as the coolest things about it are the snazzier Paralyzing Touch which goes off on any physical attack, and the ability to possess a new body quickly if your old one is destroyed and reappear quickly in a form in which you can fight pretty well, but can't cast spells.

[Shadowscale]

A lot of Bone Knight class abilities are redundant for an actual undead. The horse and the undead army stuff is nice, so it could work, but if you're going to be Necropolitan anyway, I'd reccommend the Horned Harbinger prestige class from Faiths and Pantheons.

Or, as far as "melee Lich" type templates go, I'm a big fan of Dracolich. You can even acquire it as a standard race if you have Polymorph or Essence of the Dragon cast on you for a duration long enough to drink Dracolich Brew. It claims to be a template for spellcasters, but that's clearly nonsense, as the coolest things about it are the snazzier Paralyzing Touch which goes off on any physical attack, and the ability to possess a new body quickly if your old one is destroyed and reappear quickly in a form in which you can fight pretty well, but can't cast spells.

Never heard of horned harbinger, will need to look into it. Thanks for the help. Sorry to keep bringing it up, but is blackguard a fitting class for undead at all? I like how you can shift all 10 paladin levels into it therefore having no base class, then again paladins of slaughter are things as well.

Curiously, can the deathknight template (if it is one) be taken by a PC?

[DeltaEmil]

You have to be a level 11 paladin at least, and you can only trade in up to 10 levels of paladin for blackguard (unless you're playing with epic rules), so you'll always have at least one paladin level remaining, and gain the extra smite good ability.

Generally, your GM is to decide if it's okay or not, but by the rules (and according to the update booklet that details how stuff changes from 3e to 3.5), the Death Knight template would be legal.

It would also impose on you a level adjustment of +5...

[torrasque666]

It would also impose on you a level adjustment of +5... As does the lich template and the Spectral Savant(psionic lich) template

[DeltaEmil]

The lich and spectral savant template are "only" +4.

The Death Knight template is most effective for a NPC cleric BBEG, as always, instead for puny melee-warriors or half-baked casters like blackguards.

[Reprimand]

As does the lich template and the Spectral Savant(psionic lich) template

Paladin of tyranny or slaughter would also be good if you can't take the 11 levels in paladin to convert to blackguard.

[ShurikVch]

Warcraft the RPG have Death Knight PrC (in Alliance & Horde Compendium)


As does the lich template and the Spectral Savant(psionic lich) template Actually, both aforementioned are LA +4, one less than Death Knight
(Also, Grim Psion (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20030628b), IMHO, make better "psionic lich" than Spectral Savant)

[Shadowscale]

Would you say the deathknight template is too awful to justify the LA? how would y'all make a half caster blackguard like high BAB undead one?

[OldTrees1]

Graveknights (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/templates/graveknight-cr-2) from Pathfinder are closer to Lichdom for Warriors and does have rules for becoming one. The template also has the same adjustment as the Pathfinder Lich.

[supersonic29]

Started looking at Death Knight after seeing this thread... is "damage reduction 15/+1" actually damage reduction except to +1 weapons and only +1 weapons or have I forgotten something about DR?

[M Placeholder]

Graveknights (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/templates/graveknight-cr-2) from Pathfinder are closer to Lichdom for Warriors and does have rules for becoming one. The template also has the same adjustment as the Pathfinder Lich.

Its also an upgrade from the Death Knight, as if you are reduced to 0hp, you can regenerate from your armour, which serves as the phydactery.

[DeltaEmil]

Started looking at Death Knight after seeing this thread... is "damage reduction 15/+1" actually damage reduction except to +1 weapons and only +1 weapons or have I forgotten something about DR?It meant that a magic weapon with a +1 enhancement bonus or better could ignore the 15 points of damage reduction. And in 3.0, a +1 weapon also ignored damage reduction that could be penetrated by silvered weapons (making DR xx/silver one of the most worthless types of damage reduction, as everyone had magic weapons sooner or later).

Converted to 3.5, the Death Knight's DR 15/+1 becomes DR 15/magic.

[Thurbane]

As Death knights are the melee equivalent of liches, I was curious if there was a way to become one through either ritual or class. With Walker in the wastes and dread necromancer existing for liches and etc.

Sounds like a great idea for a PrC, with a capstone of becoming a Death Knight.

Good for fallen Paladins, I would imagine.

[WhamBamSam]

Started looking at Death Knight after seeing this thread... is "damage reduction 15/+1" actually damage reduction except to +1 weapons and only +1 weapons or have I forgotten something about DR?That's a 3.0 thing. You used to need higher enhancement bonuses to pierce some DR. In 3.5 it's all DR/magic, and therefore basically meaningless.


Would you say the deathknight template is too awful to justify the LA? how would y'all make a half caster blackguard like high BAB undead one?Probably.

If I absolutely had to use the Death Knight template I might do something like Death Knight Paladin of Tyranny 4/Crusader 2/Ruby Knight Vindicator 9 or Death Knight Crusader 6/Blackguard 4/RKV 5, most likely trying to do some flanking chicanery involving the use of Island of Blades while mounted. Try to use your minions as best you can, because the template isn't worth half of its price tag on its own.

Alternately, if you really want the template, but are willing to do away with the Blackguard part, something like Death Knight Martial Wizard 1/Totemist 14 might be cool. The Wizard level gives you access to a familiar so you qualify for Share Soulmeld. Your Death Knight mount doesn't qualify you for the feat because you can't share spells with it, but it is explicitly a mount, so you should be able to share soulmelds with it per the text of the feat. It's a little cheesy though.