Prepared caster vs. spontaneous caster list for Ultimate Magus Shenanigans

[daremetoidareyo]

BASE
CLASSES


Prepared Caster /(source)/ ability
Spontaneous Caster / (Source) / ability


Wizard (PHB) int
Sorcerer (PHB) cha


Death Master (DrComp) int
Bard (PHB) cha


Wu Jen (ComArc) int
Beguiler (PHB2) int


**TelflammarShadowlord (UE) int
Dread Necromancer (HoH) cha


**Thayan Slaver (UE) int
Spell thief (ComAdv) cha


**Beholder Mage (LoM) int
Warmage (CompArc) cha


**Corrupt Avenger (HoH) cha
Duskblade (PHB2) int


**Cultist of SP (LEoF) int
Hex Blade (ComWar) cha


**Ebonmar Infiltrator (CS) int
Jester (DrComp) cha


**Hoardstealer (Draco) int
**Assassin (DM3.5) int


**Prime underdark Guide (U) int
**Court Herald (PoF) cha


**Merchant Prince (PoF) int
**Demonologist (BoVD) cha


**BladeSinger (RoF) int
**Fatemaker (PlanHB) cha



**Harper Scout (FRCS) cha



**Knight of the Weave (CoV) cha



**Nar Demonbinder (UE) cha



**Shadehunter (CoR) int



**Sublime Chord (CompArc) cha



**Suel Arcanamach (CompArc) cha



**Trapsmith (Dunscape) int



**Vigilante (Comp adv) cha



**Celebrant of Sharess (PGtF) cha







Not sure if I can lump Dragonfire adepts & warlocks into the spontaneous caster categories, probably not.

[Greenish]

Ultimate Magus entry requirements specify preparing and casting 2nd level arcane spells from a spellbook, which means you can't use, for example, savant or sha'ir to qualify.

[daremetoidareyo]

Ultimate Magus entry requirements specify preparing and casting 2nd level arcane spells from a spellbook, which means you can't use, for example, savant or sha'ir to qualify.

Thanks, I missed that. edited to reflect the new knowledge

[Amphetryon]

Ultimate Magus entry requirements specify preparing and casting 2nd level arcane spells from a spellbook, which means you can't use, for example, savant or sha'ir to qualify.

Which unfortunately (or fortunately, depending on perspective) eliminates Unseelie Dark Hunter, too.

[Afgncaap5]

Ultimate Magus entry requirements specify preparing and casting 2nd level arcane spells from a spellbook, which means you can't use, for example, savant or sha'ir to qualify.

Would that also mean you can't qualify with classes that give wizards alternates to spellbooks? Like spellshards? Or can we assume "spellbook" to be a generic enough term?

[daremetoidareyo]

Peeling through this:

Wu jen 5/assassin 1/Ultimate magus 10
You avoid a bunch taboos, get some sweet ranger type spells, Single attribute casting.

Beguiler 1/Deathmaster 3/ Ultimate magus 10
Huge spell list, thematically pretty consistent

Wizard 1 Conjuration (precocious apprentice)/Archivist 4/ Mystic Theurge 1/demonologist 3/ nar demonbinder1/ Ultimate magus 10
This assumes that you can use mystic theurge to fulfill the casting from books requirement: due to the spellbook wielding status of both wizards and archivists. At level 11, this wizard can summon CE demons:
1st level slots: 8 summon monster 3
2nd level slots: 7 summon monster 4
3rd level slots: 4 summon monster 5
4th level slots: 4 summon monster 6
5th level slots: 2 summon monster 7

Roughly, At level 20: 12 dretches, 12 howlers, 11 fiendish tigers, 14 huge fiendish monstrous spiders, 12 babau, 9 vrocks, 5 bebiliths, 3 summon Monster Xs. give or take.

[Crake]

Would that also mean you can't qualify with classes that give wizards alternates to spellbooks? Like spellshards? Or can we assume "spellbook" to be a generic enough term?

Aren't those typically referred to as "alternative spellbooks"? so they shoudl technically count

[Jack_Simth]

What about one of the methods by which to spontaneously cast spells as a prepared caster?

A Diviner-5 with the Spontaneous Divination Alternate Class feature (Complete Champion, p. 52), say. Spontaneously cast 1st level Arcane Spells? Check. Able to prepare and cast 2nd level Arcane spells from a spellbook? Also check. In addition, it's specifically a class feature, and thus it's from your class, and thus subject to advancement from UM's spontaneous side.

Theoretically, at character level 10, you'd have increased your Wizard spells per day and spells known by 8 levels (to 13th, for 7th level spells), added +2 to your caster level above that (to 15th), increased your ability to spontaneously cast spells (one arbitrary 1st level, one arbitrary 2nd level, rather than just your divinations), picked up a bonus feat (which, you know, makes up for the one you missed by not taking Wizard-10), and you'd have the ability to Persist 2nd level spells by expending a 6th level spell slot (which you'd have a few of at that point) in addition to the one you're actually casting.

At character level 14, you'd have increased your Wizard spells per day and spells known by 15 (to 20th), your caster level by +3 above that (to 23rd), be one up on feats above a pure Spontaneous Diviner-14 (but not for long), and have up to 4th level spontaneous non-divinations on hand.

At character level 15, you'd be casting as a Wizard-22, with a caster level of 26, have your 5th level spontaneous non-divination spell, and still have five levels to go to 20th for things like, oh, Archmage, Abjurant Champion, Initiate of the Seven-fold veil, Mage of the Arcane Order, or what-have-you.

[daremetoidareyo]

What about one of the methods by which to spontaneously cast spells as a prepared caster?

A Diviner-5 with the Spontaneous Divination Alternate Class feature (Complete Champion, p. 52), say. Spontaneously cast 1st level Arcane Spells? Check. Able to prepare and cast 2nd level Arcane spells from a spellbook? Also check. In addition, it's specifically a class feature, and thus it's from your class, and thus subject to advancement from UM's spontaneous side.

Theoretically, at character level 10, you'd have increased your Wizard spells per day and spells known by 8 levels (to 13th, for 7th level spells), added +2 to your caster level above that (to 15th), increased your ability to spontaneously cast spells (one arbitrary 1st level, one arbitrary 2nd level, rather than just your divinations), picked up a bonus feat (which, you know, makes up for the one you missed by not taking Wizard-10), and you'd have the ability to Persist 2nd level spells by expending a 6th level spell slot (which you'd have a few of at that point) in addition to the one you're actually casting.

At character level 14, you'd have increased your Wizard spells per day and spells known by 15 (to 20th), your caster level by +3 above that (to 23rd), be one up on feats above a pure Spontaneous Diviner-14 (but not for long), and have up to 4th level spontaneous non-divinations on hand.

At character level 15, you'd be casting as a Wizard-22, with a caster level of 26, have your 5th level spontaneous non-divination spell, and still have five levels to go to 20th for things like, oh, Archmage, Abjurant Champion, Initiate of the Seven-fold veil, Mage of the Arcane Order, or what-have-you.

dang. you broke it.

[Grim Reader]

What about one of the methods by which to spontaneously cast spells as a prepared caster?

A Diviner-5 with the Spontaneous Divination Alternate Class feature (Complete Champion, p. 52), say. Spontaneously cast 1st level Arcane Spells? Check. Able to prepare and cast 2nd level Arcane spells from a spellbook? Also check. In addition, it's specifically a class feature, and thus it's from your class, and thus subject to advancement from UM's spontaneous side.

Theoretically, at character level 10, you'd have increased your Wizard spells per day and spells known by 8 levels (to 13th, for 7th level spells), added +2 to your caster level above that (to 15th), increased your ability to spontaneously cast spells (one arbitrary 1st level, one arbitrary 2nd level, rather than just your divinations), picked up a bonus feat (which, you know, makes up for the one you missed by not taking Wizard-10), and you'd have the ability to Persist 2nd level spells by expending a 6th level spell slot (which you'd have a few of at that point) in addition to the one you're actually casting.

At character level 14, you'd have increased your Wizard spells per day and spells known by 15 (to 20th), your caster level by +3 above that (to 23rd), be one up on feats above a pure Spontaneous Diviner-14 (but not for long), and have up to 4th level spontaneous non-divinations on hand.

At character level 15, you'd be casting as a Wizard-22, with a caster level of 26, have your 5th level spontaneous non-divination spell, and still have five levels to go to 20th for things like, oh, Archmage, Abjurant Champion, Initiate of the Seven-fold veil, Mage of the Arcane Order, or what-have-you.

The qualifying method is legal and one of the ways of getting the single-advancement levels out of the way. However, to qualify Wizard as a spontaneous casting class, you must be able to cast all Wizard spells you know spontaneously. So you end up advancing casting at the normal pace, since you only get prepared class advancement at the double advancement levels.

[darksolitaire]

Peeling through this:

Wu jen 5/assassin 1/Ultimate magus 10
You avoid a bunch taboos, get some sweet ranger type spells, Single attribute casting.


How do you get hide and move silently as class skills? I guess Bloodline/Heritage feat or something?

[ShurikVch]

The qualifying method is legal and one of the ways of getting the single-advancement levels out of the way. However, to qualify Wizard as a spontaneous casting class, you must be able to cast all Wizard spells you know spontaneously. So you end up advancing casting at the normal pace, since you only get prepared class advancement at the double advancement levels. Is it possible to qualify for UM as a single-class sorcerer with Corrupt Arcana feat from HoH and tome of corrupt spells?

[Grim Reader]

Is it possible to qualify for UM as a single-class sorcerer with Corrupt Arcana feat from HoH and tome of corrupt spells?

It would appear so. Once again, that would let you get through the single advancement level at level 1.

[Jack_Simth]

The qualifying method is legal and one of the ways of getting the single-advancement levels out of the way. However, to qualify Wizard as a spontaneous casting class, you must be able to cast all Wizard spells you know spontaneously. So you end up advancing casting at the normal pace, since you only get prepared class advancement at the double advancement levels.
Then that's solvable with a single feat: Alarcritous Cogitation from Complete Mage. Leave a spell slot open of your highest level, and you can spontaneously cast any spell in your spellbook.

Or better: Exemplars of Evil has Uncanny Forethought, which lets you do that with [Int mod] spell slots... has some slight caveats, but nothing major (one extra feat requirement, standard action if it's a spell you know via Spell Mastery, full-round and -2 caster level if it's just somewhere in your spellbook).

Any spell you know, you can now cast spontaneously.

[Grim Reader]

Then that's solvable with a single feat: Alarcritous Cogitation from Complete Mage. Leave a spell slot open of your highest level, and you can spontaneously cast any spell in your spellbook.

Or better: Exemplars of Evil has Uncanny Forethought, which lets you do that with [Int mod] spell slots... has some slight caveats, but nothing major (one extra feat requirement, standard action if it's a spell you know via Spell Mastery, full-round and -2 caster level if it's just somewhere in your spellbook).

Any spell you know, you can now cast spontaneously.

Alarcritous Cogitation is a bit of a DMs call. You can only use it once per day, so you'd take a long time to cast all your spells known of it. If a PrC required the ability to cast two third level spells, would a fift h level Wizard qualify from doing it over two days?

Uncanny Forethought seems better. You'd need an Int modifier at lest equal to the number of spell levels you have, but that is not that difficult.

[Necroticplague]

The qualifying method is legal and one of the ways of getting the single-advancement levels out of the way. However, to qualify Wizard as a spontaneous casting class, you must be able to cast all Wizard spells you know spontaneously. So you end up advancing casting at the normal pace, since you only get prepared class advancement at the double advancement levels.

Can I get a source on that bolded part? It seems that being able to cast any of your spells spontaneously makes you a spontaneous caster.

[Grim Reader]

Can I get a source on that bolded part? It seems that being able to cast any of your spells spontaneously makes you a spontaneous caster.

I am away from books, but from memory, Rules Compendium, ca. page 139

[Jack_Simth]

I am away from books, but from memory, Rules Compendium, ca. page 139
Let's see....


Spontaneous Casting
Some characters can cast spells, but they don’t need spellbooks, nor do they prepare their spells. They can cast any spell they know using a daily allotment of spell slots. These characters are called spontaneous spellcasters. Such a spellcaster’s class level limits the number of spells he can cast. A high ability score might allow such spellcasters to cast a few extra spells, and the class defines the ability score that governs spellcasting. A spellcaster must have a score of at least 10 + a spell’s level in the ability score that governs spellcasting to cast that spell.

So... Uncanny Forethought from Exemplars of Evil qualifies readily (don't need a spellbook due to the Spell Mastery requirement; can cast any spell the caster knows; uses a daily allotment of spell slots... high ability score lets the caster cast a few extra spells... full match).

[gorfnab]

Bladesinger (Races of Faerun) is a prepared arcane spellcaster with a spellbook.

[Troacctid]

If your casting class is both a spontaneous casting class and a prepared casting class, then every time you level up in your base class, you are already gaining a level in a spontaneous casting class and a prepared casting class to which you belonged before taking that level. You don't need to take Ultimate Magus for that.

[daremetoidareyo]

Bladesinger (Races of Faerun) is a prepared arcane spellcaster with a spellbook.

edited to include that. Thanks.

[darksolitaire]

Bladesinger (Races of Faerun) is a prepared arcane spellcaster with a spellbook.

Bladesinger in RoF was from March 2003 and was promptly updated to 3.5 in Complete Warrior in December 2003. It now advances existing casting. The bugger originally appeared in Tome and Blood which came out in 2001.

[ShurikVch]

More spontaneous casters:
**Celebrant of Sharess (PGF) cha
**Mortal Hunter (BoVD) cha
**Fiend Slayer (Dr#287) cha
**Master of the South Wind (Dr#314) cha
**Rage Mage (Dr#276) cha
**Royal Herald (Dragon Annual 5) cha
**Sinker (Dr#287) cha
**Taker (Dr#287) cha

(Possible) prepared caster with spellbook:
**Psi-Hunter (Dr#281) int
"A psi-hunter learns, prepares, and casts spells just as a wizard does, but only from the psi-hunter spell list."
It doesn't say Psi-Hunter use a spellbook, but it also doesn't deny it, so, since wizards usually use spellbooks to prepare their spells...

[daremetoidareyo]

Can a paladin or ranger be considered a prepared caster if they have the sword of the arcane order feat?