Advice on further optimizing my airship?

[gadren]

Okay, so my artificer, Byon wants to make an airship unlike the purely magic ships flown by House Lyrandar (which he kind of has a feud with) that rely on enchanted soarwood and enslaved elementals. We are playing an Eberron campaign, but the DM lets us use both 3.5 and pathfinder rules (pathfinder versions are used over 3.5 versions when it applies)
He wants to make a ship that flies with SCIENCE, and uses magic only to enhance the vessel's capabilities. A Lyrandar ship can be brought down with Dispel Magic (and possibly release an angry elemental in the process), but a Byonic ship will only be temporarily inconvenienced by such tactics.

Detailed below is my plan for his airship. If you have any suggestions on how to optimize it further, please let me know.

Stage 1:
For stage 1 Byon will simply construct a dirigible from page 55 of the Arms and Equipment guide. The cabin is 30 feet long and 10 feet wide, so he'll basically furnish it fairly similarly to a Winnebago of the same size (http://www.motorhome.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/SE30A12.jpg) (don't know if you add extra gp for that). He'll also add a figurehead to the front of the gondola, very similar to this (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/38/Ocean_1790_Model_Musem_Paris_mp3h9289.jpg/1920px-Ocean_1790_Model_Musem_Paris_mp3h9289.jpg)(there are actually practical reasons for the figurehead down the road), and an inside ladder leading up to 3-foot high crawlspace (*cough* Jeffries tube) that goes across the top of the cabin.
The list price is 35,000gp.

Stage 2:
For Stage 2, Byon will need to acquire a 16th level Animate Objects scroll and a 14th level Permanency scroll (costing 2400 gp and 1750 gp, respectively). Byon is willing to pay more than marketprice for these scrolls if necessary. Once he has those scrolls, he'll need to spend the 15,000 gp in Infusion Dust to permanize the pathfinder version of Animate Objects (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/constructs/animated-object) on the dirigible. The animated dirigible will have the flammable flaw, and then all CP will be spent toward its fly speed, giving it a fly speed of 80 ft (clumsy)... still slower than a Lyrandar ship, BUT, because of permanent animate objects, the ship is now treated as a creature (specifically a construct) instead of an object. This means it is subject to any spells that would work on a construct, and can use some magic items. Also, the ship follows Byon's commands, and thus does not need a pilot or crew if Byon is on hand.

Stage 3:
Byon will stock the ship with scrolls or other items that cast beneficial spells on the ship, such as haste, displacement, protection from arrows, resist energy, featherfall, etc. The ship will always be stocked with scrolls/wands of the Cloud Wings spell. With its low level and long duration, it'll be easy to keep the ship's speed regularly boosted to 110ft, outrunning the Lyrandar ships, or briefly up to 140 ft with Haste.

Stage 4:
Byon will craft items for the ship to wear. Most of them should be place-able on the figurehead, I imagine, which would be animate with the rest of the ship. Most importantly, the decorative spear would be replaced with the spear "Rapid Wrath" from Ghostwalk, which will increase the ship's base flight speed from 80ft to 160ft (190ft with Cloud Wings, 220 ft with Haste... **** you, Lyrandar). Adding the returning quality to the Rapid Wrath javelin will also give the ship its own attack besides ramming into ****. If possible, Byon will also put a magic helm, bracers, necklace, rings, etc. on the figurehead if they have benefits beneficial to the ship (like a ring of protection, cloak of resistance, bracers of armor, etc.)

Stage 5:
Build small quarters (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/CreonRex/media/PortableHoleAppartment-2.jpg.html) inside portable holes, close portable hole, reapply holes in the crawl space of the ship (there should be room for 5). Put big warning signs up about taking bags of holding into e-d quarters. Install a ring gate on the bridge, and another at HQ.

[gadren]

Also, the airship model Byon is competing with can be found here: http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20050803a&page=2

[Seclora]

I think the simple answer is, talk to your DM. Not because I think anything you're doing is rules questionable, but because this is awesome and I'd hate to see it vetoed.

Are you familiar with an item called 'Pectoral of Maneuverability' from the Draconomicon? It's based on the spell Wings of Air, from the same, which improves your maneuverability by one step for 12k GP. Also comes in greater for two steps and 90k GP. You'll be glad of it first time you have to fight another airship, and it sounds like you might choose to do that. Good maneuverability is critical when your vessel's primary attack is ramming things with its prow. Speed helps too, charging is good, but maneuverability lets you position yourself to do that more and better.

Secondly, Consider using Craft Construct if possible. And then use the Rudimentary Intelligence feat to give it Int equal to 1/2 your caster level. This will get your Dirigible feats and probably just the one skill. If that skill were, say, Use Magic Device then it would be able to cast some of its own buffs, or even provide air support while you heroically rappel through the ornate skylight belonging to that guy you hate who's holding the girl you think you have a chance with, or just steal stuff. It's your call really.

Lastly, find a way to negate that fire vulnerability. It's mentioned that the Lyander Airships ring deals either fire or bludgeoning on contact, which could get bad pretty quickly. Try redundant layering, so the ship doesn't crash after the first flaming arrow or alchemist's fire. On which note, find a way to see above the ship, so you don't get ambushed.

Again, this sounds awesome!

[Doctor Awkward]

The big problem with trying to compete with Eberron airships using their rules is that their rules are bonkers.

The official published rules for airships are scattered, inconsistent, and almost always unclear, sort of like they were written by several different people all under pressure to meet a specific deadline or something...

Anyway, let's take a look at that stat block again:


Airship: Colossal vehicle; Airworthiness +6; Shiphandling -4; Speed Fly 100 ft. (poor), Overall AC -3; Hull sections 1,000 (crash 250 sections); Section hp 60 (hardness 5); Section AC 3; Ram 12d6; SA fire ring; SQ resistance to fire 10, hover; Space 90 ft. by 300 ft.; Height 50 ft. (fire ring has 110-ft. diameter); Watch 20; Complement 150; Cargo 30 tons; Cost 92,000 gp.

Hover: Despite its maneuverability rating, an airship can hover and has no minimum speed required to maintain air travel. It cannot turn in place, however.

Ring: An airship can use either a fire or an air elemental. A burning fire elemental bound into a ring deals 3d8 points of fire damage to any creature or object passing it touches. When an air elemental is used, the damage is bludgeoning.

Aura: Strong conjuration, CL 15th.

Construction: Bind Elemental, greater planar binding, 46,000 gp, 3,680 XP, 92 days.

Price: 92,000 gp.

That stat block is extremely similar to what you see in Stormwrack. The first thing to notice is in regard to airship speed and carrying capacity: they are already treated like creatures.

According to Eberron Campaign Setting, pg 267, airships have a speed of "roughly 20 miles per hour". Well, 100 ft. per round, multiplied by 600 rounds in an hour gets us 60,000 feet. Divide that by the number of feet in a mile (5,280) and you get roughly 11.3 mph, about half that speed.
However, treating the airship as a creature means it can hustle every round (presumably without tiring), which increases it's speed to over 22 mph, more than sufficient to line up with ECS.

I'm mostly point this out to let you know that while you can do the same thing, I wouldn't count on the DM not reaching the same conclusions a lot of other people have.

As far as carrying capacity goes, take a look at the firesled from Secrets of Xen'drik, which the book says to "treat as a large quadruped with 18 strength".
A firesled is about the size of a rowboat, which, according to Stormwrack, is a large vehicle. Since the airship is listed as a colossal vehicle, a similar sized quadruped with 34 strength can carry 67,200 lbs, or about 33 tons.
As you can see this all lines up very nicely.

The Explorer's Handbook also reproduces the maneuverability chart from Stormwrack, which is derived from the Aerial Maneuverability chart in the DMG, pg 20, so it's probably best to just use that. Whie we're on the subject, see that Ram stat listed at 12d6? According to Stormwrack, ramming speed is listed for every 10 feet of speed the vessel is moving. Even before hustling that's 120d6 of damage from an airship plowing into you.


I still like the idea. But I worry that a single Dispel that suppresses your Permanent Animated Objects spell will also cause every other effect to go away unless it also affects objects.

[gadren]

I think the simple answer is, talk to your DM. Not because I think anything you're doing is rules questionable, but because this is awesome and I'd hate to see it vetoed.

Yes. The DM has tentatively approved everything in my initial post.


Are you familiar with an item called 'Pectoral of Maneuverability' from the Draconomicon? It's based on the spell Wings of Air, from the same, which improves your maneuverability by one step for 12k GP. Also comes in greater for two steps and 90k GP. You'll be glad of it first time you have to fight another airship, and it sounds like you might choose to do that. Good maneuverability is critical when your vessel's primary attack is ramming things with its prow. Speed helps too, charging is good, but maneuverability lets you position yourself to do that more and better. Hmm. Yes that might be useful, if my DM is willing to rule that my animate airship is a winged creature. Depends if he considers those stabilizers to be wings or not, I guess.[/quote]


Secondly, Consider using Craft Construct if possible. And then use the Rudimentary Intelligence feat to give it Int equal to 1/2 your caster level. This will get your Dirigible feats and probably just the one skill. If that skill were, say, Use Magic Device then it would be able to cast some of its own buffs, or even provide air support while you heroically rappel through the ornate skylight belonging to that guy you hate who's holding the girl you think you have a chance with, or just steal stuff. It's your call really. Also a good suggestion, though I'm a bit feat starved.


Lastly, find a way to negate that fire vulnerability. It's mentioned that the Lyander Airships ring deals either fire or bludgeoning on contact, which could get bad pretty quickly. Try redundant layering, so the ship doesn't crash after the first flaming arrow or alchemist's fire. On which note, find a way to see above the ship, so you don't get ambushed.

Again, this sounds awesome! Well, like I mentioned one of the benefits of it being a creature is that it makes it much easier to grant it energy resistance or immunity. I definitely plan on making that a priority.



The big problem with trying to compete with Eberron airships using their rules is that their rules are bonkers.

The official published rules for airships are scattered, inconsistent, and almost always unclear, sort of like they were written by several different people all under pressure to meet a specific deadline or something...

Anyway, let's take a look at that stat block again:



That stat block is extremely similar to what you see in Stormwrack. The first thing to notice is in regard to airship speed and carrying capacity: they are already treated like creatures.

According to Eberron Campaign Setting, pg 267, airships have a speed of "roughly 20 miles per hour". Well, 100 ft. per round, multiplied by 600 rounds in an hour gets us 60,000 feet. Divide that by the number of feet in a mile (5,280) and you get roughly 11.3 mph, about half that speed.
However, treating the airship as a creature means it can hustle every round (presumably without tiring), which increases it's speed to over 22 mph, more than sufficient to line up with ECS.

I'm mostly point this out to let you know that while you can do the same thing, I wouldn't count on the DM not reaching the same conclusions a lot of other people have.

Well, the vehicles rules in the Arms and Equipment guide specifically say that vehicles get two move actions and "generally take a double move". The only assumption I'm making about vehicle movement is that they can't use the Run action, but I'll have to ask my DM.

However, once the ship is animated, it instead uses the movement rules as a construct with a fly speed, and CAN use the run action, which will give me yet another speed advantage. When the afterburners Haste is going, this puppy should reach 100 mph.


As far as carrying capacity goes, take a look at the firesled from Secrets of Xen'drik, which the book says to "treat as a large quadruped with 18 strength".
A firesled is about the size of a rowboat, which, according to Stormwrack, is a large vehicle. Since the airship is listed as a colossal vehicle, a similar sized quadruped with 34 strength can carry 67,200 lbs, or about 33 tons.
As you can see this all lines up very nicely.
I'm a little confused on what point you are trying to make here. How is this relevant to my airship? (I don't mean that in a rude way, I honestly am not sure what you're getting at.)


The Explorer's Handbook also reproduces the maneuverability chart from Stormwrack, which is derived from the Aerial Maneuverability chart in the DMG, pg 20, so it's probably best to just use that. Whie we're on the subject, see that Ram stat listed at 12d6? According to Stormwrack, ramming speed is listed for every 10 feet of speed the vessel is moving. Even before hustling that's 120d6 of damage from an airship plowing into you. Well, I'll have to make it a point to not get rammed. I don't have Stormwrack on hand, but the Arms and Equipment guide says that the ramming ship takes the same amount of damage it deals in a ram, so I honestly don't really understand the point. Considering how hard of a time House Lyr has getting ahold of the proper materials for its ships, I'm going to assume they'll be as about as enthused about ramming as I am, and combat will mostly be done with ranged weapons and spells. Especially spells.[/quote]



I still like the idea. But I worry that a single Dispel that suppresses your Permanent Animated Objects spell will also cause every other effect to go away unless it also affects objects. That is true, though it will require a DC 27 caster level check. I will make sure to give the animated ship a ring of counterspells (or two) loaded with dispel magic.

[Doctor Awkward]

I'm a little confused on what point you are trying to make here. How is this relevant to my airship? (I don't mean that in a rude way, I honestly am not sure what you're getting at.)

It was mostly just to help emphasize the point that, in a lot of ways, Eberron airships are already treated like creatures, and to warn that, if the DM okays everything you want to do to your ship, to not be surprised if he turns around and allows regular airships to be subject to the same rules.

Hell by RAW, you can even charm monster the bound elemental by touching the Khyber shard, and then control the airship without the need for the proper dragonmark.

Incidentally, while the Explorer's Handbook also says that airships can be controlled with a Profession (sailor) check, this completely contradicts the ECS, which states that basic control must be established, via a Charisma check, every round you want to make the ship do something.


As far as defending your zepplin, consider ballistae on swivel mounts, which you can just treat as gargantuan crossbows and price accordingly, and then operate as siege weapons (rules for them everywhere), and spell turrets from the DMGII.

[gadren]

Hmm, I just noticed I missed the A&E guide's section on masterwork vehicles. Because the dirigible crew size is only 6, it would only cost 5000 gp to increase its speed by 25% and add 5 to its hardness!

[gadren]

I've been making illustrated log entries about different things my artificer does. Here's the one on the stage 1 airship.
https://images.plurk.com/m7bU9sdi6dQKnJ1S5s5DB.jpg