Tiny Mess

[bootzin]

Hey Guys!
So, I want to make a build focusing on the feat Confound the Big Folk, because it really seems to be awesome, and I want your help with it

I decided to make a Muckdweller, and applied the Feral, and these are my stats:
12/14/8/14/10/16 -> 6/20/8/14/8/14

Some feats I'm considering:
Faerie Mysteries Initiate
Confound the Big Folk
Stand Still

Some classes I've thought about:
Marshal, Crusader, Pyrokineticist, Lasher

So, what do you suggest me? Later on I'll explain my reasons for the classes.

I was thinking about something using Iaijutsu Focus, tips are welcome (:

[bootzin]

Ok, so here are my explanations to the classes and feats I've chosen:

Pyrokineticist: One level dip grants me a whip that deals 1d8 dmg and gets me a reach of 15ft, regardless of my size. Which means I threaten 15ft even being small

Lasher: This class is from 3.0, but it is a must to any whip build. It allows you to overcome the biggest problems of a whip: you deal your choice of lethal or non lethal damage, you threaten normally with a whip, and you do not provoke AoO for attacking in melee, it is a must.

Crusader: Now that I have a 15ft threaten area, I really want to use Thicket of Blades. A crusader is an overall good battlefield control class, and that is pretty much what I'm looking for with at least 2 level dips

Marshal: This is an overall good support class, and it gives me all knowledge skills as class skills, so I think it is good for getting Faerie Mysteries Initiate without being an elf

As for feats:
I have a penalty to con, and I need some skills, so I think that FMI will replace my con dependency nicely

As for Confound the Big Folk, I want it so that I make opponents flat footed, and I also have a lot of bonuses when occupying my enemies square, this would combo well with a rogue or Iaijutsu

Stand Still grants me that the enemies won't be able to move out of my square when I'm getting my bonuses from them. I'll get an AoO from their movement out of my square, and with that I'll prevent them from moving, granting me the bonuses from being inside his square

Now to what I need:
I need some advices on my build. Some classes for me to take, some feats, strategies

I need a psionic class to qualify for Pyrokineticist, preferably before level 8

I also think that a dip in fighter would give me a bonus feat and hit n run variant, granting me some good bonuses on damage

Iaijutsu master may be good, but the prereqs are harsh, and I don't know if I should get 5 levels in it

Rogue seems to go very good, as my opponents will most likely be flat footed or flanked

Knight is good, but has the problem of not hitting flat footed enemies due to his code

Paladins have a similar problem, but are a good choice overall

What do you guys thin about monks? Should I take a one level dip?

Please help me guys, I'm really lost with this build :/
I can start at level 4

[kellbyb]

Most of this is outside my area of expertise, but I can tell you all you need for pyrokineticist is the wild talent feat.

[prufock]

I need a psionic class to qualify for Pyrokineticist, preferably before level 8
Psychic Warrior 1 gets you a bonus fighter feat and access to the Compression power, which is perfect for the Underfoot Combat/CTBF combo.

Have you looked up the I May Be Tiny, But You're Dead thread? Plenty of good ideas there.

[ShurikVch]

Instead Pyrokineticist, use Sonokineticist (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040625e) - resistance/immunity sonic is much rarer then to fire, and full damage to objects may be useful

Exotic Weapon Master PrC: select stunts Exotic Reach, Trip Attack, and Stunning Blow (if you have Stunning Fist)

Fighter-Exoticist (from Dragon #310) 2-level dip, take abilities "Exotic Attack" (+2 on Trip/Disarm), and "Strange Strike" (+1 Competence on attack, unless enemy proficient with whip)


I need a psionic class to qualify for Pyrokineticist, preferably before level 8 Psychic Rogue (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040723b), or Psionic Assassin (from Secrets of Sarlona)

[Zaq]

Marshal is good on a Confound the Big Folk build, but not for the reason you might be thinking. Confound the Big Folk requires Underfoot Combat as a prereq, and Underfoot Combat has the boneheaded prereq of 10 ranks in Tumble, so you can't take it as your level 6 feat, since you need to be level 7+ to get 10 ranks in Tumble. You see how you get Skill Focus: Diplomacy as a bonus feat at Marshal 1? And you see how it says you can take a different feat you qualify for if you already have SF: Diplomacy? Yeah. Take SF: Diplomacy early on, then take your first level of Marshal at 7th level or higher (making sure you max out Tumble in the process!), thereby getting Underfoot Combat at 7th level, which means you can take Confound the Big Folk at 9th level. Without Marshal (or the DCFS, I suppose), you have to wait until 12th level to take Confound the Big Folk, which is dumb.

[Firest Kathon]

Pyrokineticist: One level dip grants me a whip that deals 1d8 dmg and gets me a reach of 15ft, regardless of my size. Which means I threaten 15ft even being small.
The whip created by the Pyrokineticist (both 3.5 (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/prestigeClasses/pyrokineticist.htm) and Pathfinder (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/psionics-unleashed/psionic-prestige-classes/pyrokineticist#TOC-Fire-Lash-Ps-)) does not threaten, not even 5 ft (unless you already factored in the Lasher...). It is a ranged attack.

Lasher: This class is from 3.0, but it is a must to any whip build. It allows you to overcome the biggest problems of a whip: you deal your choice of lethal or non lethal damage, you threaten normally with a whip, and you do not provoke AoO for attacking in melee, it is a must.
I do not have the book in front of me, so double-check (especially with your DM) if the Fire Whip of the Pyrokineticist qualifies as a whip for the Lasher. I personally would allow it, don't really see any reason why not.

I need a psionic class to qualify for Pyrokineticist, preferably before level 8
You do not need a psionic class for Pyrokineticist, you can qualify with the Wild Talent (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/psionics-unleashed/feats/wild-talent) feat. The Pyrokineticist does not require you to be a Manifester. A Soulknife (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/psionics-unleashed/classes/soulknife), by the way, gets it for free and at least in Pathfinder can use the whip as its Mind Blade.

[Darrin]

This gets most everything in place by ECL 9:

1) Fighter 1. Feat: Faerie Mysteries Initiate. Bonus: EWP Whip.
2) Fighter 2. Bonus: Weapon Finesse.
3) Psychic Warrior 1. Feat: Skill Focus Diplomacy. Bonus: Weapon Focus Whip.
4) Psychic Warrior 2. Bonus: Combat Reflexes.
5) Crusader 1. Mountain Hammer.
6) Pyrokineticist 1. Feat: Stand Still.
7) Marshall 1. Bonus: Underfoot Combat.
8) Crusader 2. Thicket of Blades.
9) Lasher 1. Feat: Confound the Big Folk.

It doesn't get sneak attack, though. If you're willing to wait a little longer on Combat Reflexes, you can get it in by replacing Fighter 1/2 with Sneak Attack Fighter 1/Swashbuckler 1.

Rogue: Tricky, not sure how you fit this in early without delaying Lasher more.

Iajutsu Master: Tricky, but might be doable later if you replace Fighter 2 with OA Samurai 2. This gets you Iajutsu Focus as a class skill, but you probably won't have the prereq feats until ECL 15ish.

Knight: No. I don't see how it would help much here.

Monk: No. Maybe taking Invisible Eye style (Unearthed Arcana) gets you Combat Reflexes after Lasher, or maybe Sleeping Tiger style helps you get into Iajutsu Master, but it might hurt the build more than it helps it.

[bootzin]

Thanks all for all your replies, they're really useful!

First of all, sonokineticist seems really better, but what would his special prereq be? listened to loud rock just for pleasure? hahaha NVM, I found it :P

I have looked the I may be tiny but you are dead thread, but I was rather not being a gnome..

Soulknife seems to be a nice option, but Pathfinder and Dragon Mag are really hard to get approved in our campaign, and I wouldn't use his mind blade as whip because of reach concerns

My DM has approved Fire lash to qualify as a whip for the Lasher

Regarding your build suggestion, Darrin, I have some comments to make:

1. I can use Weapon Groups so I don't need EWP
2. I already get Weapon Finesse from my race (muckdweller)
3. We use the PF feat system, so it is one feat every odd level, that allows me to get Underfoot combatant at 7th even without Marshal
4. I thought about monk using the carmendine feat, so that I add a small bonus to AC.
5. I was thinking about using Iaijutsu Focus or some other precision damage to combo with the fact that I'll get enemies flat footed quite often, any ideas on this?
6. I believe that theHit and Run fighter variant is better In the build
7. What do you think about Warblade? His aptitude could be useful If I used quickrazors for the Iaijutsu, and if I got Soulknife, I could change his Weapon Focus bonus feat to be WF (Whip)
8. Maybe change my initial stats to make this less MAD? Like dumping Cha or something
9. Craven is also nice since I get a Sneak Attack from Lasher