Blighter

[Shadowscale]

How would one go about making a blighter 10 a decent character concept? Does the class advance animal companions, or do you lose them after becoming an ex druid. Also is this a type of character a pc could just run in a campaign without causing too much trouble or making the class itself central to the plot? Do any feats exist to help with their abilities or magic items?

Also kinda unrelated but just to satisfy a curiosity, can blighters become liches? Sorry, was just interested.

[black-jack]

Not sure exactly what concept you want, but as far as I know it doesn't advance your animal companion (although you still have one, so natural bond can fix this if you're desperate) and they can become liches, because their caster level stacks with previous druid levels. Wouldn't recommend because you get undead wildshape anyways, but still possible.

[TheCrowing1432]

Blighters are one of the worst Prestige classes in the game and knocks Druid down to tier 3 or worse.

It doesnt advance animal companion or wildshape, in fact Blighters LOSE their animal companion since they are considered EX Druids.

They get access to spells, sure but they're no where near as powerful as the druids spell list.

Its a good idea but a horrible execution.

[Shadowscale]

Blighters are one of the worst Prestige classes in the game and knocks Druid down to tier 3 or worse.

It doesnt advance animal companion or wildshape, in fact Blighters LOSE their animal companion since they are considered EX Druids.

They get access to spells, sure but they're no where near as powerful as the druids spell list.

Its a good idea but a horrible execution.

So, it makes a horribly broken class not horribly broken and has awesome fluff? That's why I'm trying to make it as good as possible. Its not all about playing the best thing, otherwise classes like the healer and sorcerer would never exist.

[HammeredWharf]

Blighter isn't a bad class. It's just a straight downgrade from Druid, so usually it's a bad thing to pick optimization wise. One can be an evil druid, too, so RP wise Blighter is only a good choice if you want to burn forests for some reason. However, the downright silly deforestation requirements are sure to derail your campaign. You could circumvent them by using your deforestation on an area no one really cares about, but that can be tricky.

[Shadowscale]

Blighter isn't a bad class. It's just a straight downgrade from Druid, so usually it's a bad thing to pick optimization wise. One can be an evil druid, too, so RP wise Blighter is only a good choice if you want to burn forests for some reason. However, the downright silly deforestation requirements are sure to derail your campaign. You could circumvent them by using your deforestation on an area no one really cares about, but that can be tricky.

That's why I was wondering how to actually go about optimizing one and all the things they can take to make themselves better.

[Karl Aegis]

Good fluff? You're a petulant child that throws a temper tantrum because mommy weaned you off her milk. I wouldn't exactly call that good fluff.

[Shadowscale]

Good fluff? You're a petulant child that throws a temper tantrum because mommy weaned you off her milk. I wouldn't exactly call that good fluff.

Similar to blackguards.

[squiggit]

Its spell list should be a bit bigger. It should co-opt and alter Druid class features like the Blackguard to the Paladin to a greater extent. As is your first blighter level if you take the class normally is worse than not taking a level at all. It needs a less insane spell recovery mechanic too.

Blightfire is pretty boring. Unbond is kinda cool, but way too niche.

Also probably needs more uses of everything.

[TheCrowing1432]

So, it makes a horribly broken class not horribly broken and has awesome fluff? That's why I'm trying to make it as good as possible. Its not all about playing the best thing, otherwise classes like the healer and sorcerer would never exist.

WOTC doesnt really balance their classes well.

In the 3.5 play test the Druid used a scimitar, didnt wildshape.

The wizard only used blast spells, and the tier list is player generated, not by WOTC.

Healer and Sorceror exist because WOTC wanted them to. Not to balance the better classes.

As far as being a Blighter goes, well I dont think theres any real way to optimize them other then pumping up your Wisdom in order to make your spells more powerful.

You do get some wildshape things, but turning skeletal isnt very useful especially when going up against paladins and clerics.

But according to RAW you can only wildshape into animals. Which...there arent really that many that are useful.

Plus theres the cavet of having to deforest an entire section of forest to recover your spells, which would cause tons of angry druids, elves and who knows what else after you.

Blightfire isnt terribly impressive and the rest of your abilities will only be situationally useful.

[Troacctid]

You can cheat a bit on the prerequisites if you have some way of heightening your spells for free, such as Improved Sigil (Krau). That way you can cast 3rd level spells with only 3 levels of Druid, so you have fewer wasted ex-Druid levels. Ex-Druid 3/full BAB class 2 or average BAB class 3/Blighter 10 is going to be significantly better than Ex-Druid 6/Blighter 10. If you can double up on free Heightening, you could potentially get away with only a single ex-Druid level, but that's probably going to be feat-intensive enough to require flaws.

[HammeredWharf]

The main problem with the Blighter is that its abilities are so weak, niche or self-destructive your main objective when optimizing one is becoming as un-Blighter as possible. In other words, you end up picking the anti-druid just to try being an anti-anti-druid. It's a fruitless endeavor. Sure, you could probably find a way not to rely on destroying plants every day. Yes, you could expand the spell list. Yes, you could turn into an undead bear and pretend it's noticeably better than a normal bear. But you could also just pick another caster class, say you hate plants, avoid the hassle and end up with essentially the same character in the end.

I'd say that being a Blighter is worth it only if you don't care about optimization and WANT it to influence your campaign. Otherwise, it's pointless.

On a related note, have you seen the Walker in the Waste PRC? It's similar to Blighter in many ways, but doesn't suck. It also turns you into a lich in the end.

[eggynack]

On a related note, have you seen the Walker in the Waste PRC? It's similar to Blighter in many ways, but doesn't suck. It also turns you into a lich in the end.
I prefer talontar blightlord from unapproachable east. The prerequisites are annoying, but the flavor is a pretty great fit for anyone who wants to be a blighter, and the actual class is basically a variant holt warden if you ditch out after a level or two. Best of all, you don't have to ditch any caster levels.

[Shadowscale]

I really hate when you want to try to optimize something that isn't good in comparison to other things, that you can't ever really get any help for it other than being told you shouldn't do something because its not as good as x, y, or z.

You can cheat a bit on the prerequisites if you have some way of heightening your spells for free, such as Improved Sigil (Krau). That way you can cast 3rd level spells with only 3 levels of Druid, so you have fewer wasted ex-Druid levels. Ex-Druid 3/full BAB class 2 or average BAB class 3/Blighter 10 is going to be significantly better than Ex-Druid 6/Blighter 10. If you can double up on free Heightening, you could potentially get away with only a single ex-Druid level, but that's probably going to be feat-intensive enough to require flaws.

I like where you are going with this, do you have any idea how to go about it with 1 druid level? Afterwords what should be taken once blighter is finished? Any feats after all is said and done by the way?

[Seto]

If you're not the DM, that probably won't be useful to you, but deforestation is what really kills it for me. So I'd advise houseruling to alleviate the penalty in case of non-deforestation from "no spells' to "spells at CL -1".

[TheCrowing1432]

I really hate when you want to try to optimize something that isn't good in comparison to other things, that you can't ever really get any help for it other than being told you shouldn't do something because its not as good as x, y, or z.


I like where you are going with this, do you have any idea how to go about it with 1 druid level? Afterwords what should be taken once blighter is finished? Any feats after all is said and done by the way?

What exactly are you trying to optimize about the Blighter?

Spells? Pump your wisdom and find plenty of trees to destroy. Theres metamagic feats abound.

Wildshape? You're limited to animals, skeletal animals at that. Animals suck. Most druids wildshape into something else as soon as they are able to, or they wildshape into dire animals, or something with good abilities.

Their limited niche abilities?

Deforestation is limited to the amount of trees in your campaign.

Blightfire is weak, you'd honestly be better served casting fireball.

Sustenence can be bought in a ring

Speak with Dead Animals is only fractionally useful.

Contagious touch isnt that good.

Animate dead animals is terrible, as there are few animals worth animating, i suppose you could animate a tiger or something with cool abilities, but its a once per day ability.

Unbond is too niche, useless 90% of the time.

Plague is again situationally useful.

You're asking us to optimize a class that really isnt that useful.

its abilities are too niche and ultimately dont do anything. There are no Blighter feats that can be done to optimize them.

Best you can hope for is to optimize your spell casting, and theres already thousands of ways to do that. One of which is dont take blighter levels.

[HammeredWharf]

I really hate when you want to try to optimize something that isn't good in comparison to other things, that you can't ever really get any help for it other than being told you shouldn't do something because its not as good as x, y, or z.

Ok, so you want to optimize a Blighter. What's the best thing about this class? Its fast casting progression. Early entry tricks make it even better, obviously. Now, how can one avoid the bad things of Blighter? By getting out as soon as possible.

So, get in early, as described above. Generally, I dislike early entry tricks, so can't offer much advice there. Then, pick a good PRC with solid class features that suffers from caster level loss. Like Void Disciple. Now you've got decent class features. As a bonus, your Deforestation isn't as potent (its scaling is based on your Blighter level), so you're easier to sustain. Advance normally from there. So something like Ex-Druid 3 / Full BAB class 2 / Blighter 3 / Void Disciple 12. Looks like a decent character. Gets the cool stuff from Void Disciple and 9th level spells. To optimize further, try to expand your spell list via feats and/or items.

The problem, as I mentioned earlier, is that you're barely a Blighter at that point.

[Grim Reader]

How would one go about making a blighter 10 a decent character concept?

Blighter 10 is difficult to optimize. The class really has only two things going for it; 9th level spells in 9 levels and the ability to switch between Undead and alive. But the 9th level casting is limited by a poor spell list, and the Wildshape is also substandard. Most builds would expand on one or the other with PrCs, as there aren't much in the way of interesting abilities coming in after Undead Wildshape. You can do a bit with the Wildshape with feats I guess.

As for making it "decent" that depends on the party you are playing with, and your way of qualifying.


Does the class advance animal companions, or do you lose them after becoming an ex druid. Also is this a type of character a pc could just run in a campaign without causing too much trouble or making the class itself central to the plot? Do any feats exist to help with their abilities or magic items?

The class, as I remember, does not advance animal companions. In fact, one of the high-level abilities is to detach animal companions. In terms of fitting in with the other characters, any group than can handle evil alignments should be able to accept it.


Also kinda unrelated but just to satisfy a curiosity, can blighters become liches? Sorry, was just interested.

I don't see why not, but you'd not gain as much as other spellcasters. You've already got the ability to be undead at your fingertips, and you'd lose the ability to not be Undead when its inconvenient.

[Kraken]

You could try to theurge with one I suppose, but there's really not much to optimize with blighter10 I don't think, I tried looking at the class features, but I just couldn't think of a use for them. So I'll give it a try without going blighter10. As above though, you want as few druid levels as possible. Druid1/wizard8/blighter2/theurge9, for instance, if you can somehow finagle a feat based way to be able to hit the 3rd level druid spells requirement of blighter. Ekes out 17th level wizard casting and full blighter casting. You might even be able to eke out 18th level wizard casting if you can figure out a way to qualify for mystic theurge with only one level of blighter: Druid1/wizard8/blighter1/theurge10

[Grim Reader]

How many ways are there to expand the spell list without PrCs anyway? Any inspired notions here?

[HammeredWharf]

How many ways are there to expand the spell list without PrCs anyway? Any inspired notions here?

Initiate feats, but most of them require Cleric levels. Feats like Mother Cyst, but they tend to be irrelevant optimization wise. In this case, domain staves from Complete Champion are a good option, but they're only viable later on due to their price.

[Urpriest]

Blighters are supposed to be able to qualify for Planar Shepherd, as per the latter's description. They aren't, but if you houserule that they can it solves a few of their issues and makes for a more balanced Planar Shepherd entry.

[Grim Reader]

Yes, Domain Staves are probably the best option without PrCs.

Btw, does anyone know if the Blighters Deforestation spell-like ability is considered Arcane or Divine? Spell-like abilities normally default to arcane, but the references seem to only apply to spell-like abilities that mimic named spells, and I don't think there is a Deforestation spell anywhere.

[Shadowscale]

Blighters are supposed to be able to qualify for Planar Shepherd, as per the latter's description. They aren't, but if you houserule that they can it solves a few of their issues and makes for a more balanced Planar Shepherd entry.

Would taking a bunch of levels in both classes be a decent character for tier 3-4?

[Grim Reader]

Would taking a bunch of levels in both classes be a decent character for tier 3-4?

No. Planar Shepherd does things like take ten turns to everyone elses one turn and would have 9th level casting and planar wild shape in addition.

What you'd want is about three levels of Blighter, and then some PrC that full-advances spellcasting. Extra domains is good. Also, remember you're a blighter, you don't give a dead fig what the Hd of the class is, its all d12 to you. You also want to qualify for Blighter in some manner that leaves you with all your Druid levels lost rather than dead.

Good feats are Natural Spell, Enervating Touch etc Turn into a skeletal giant Octopus (What ever that looks like. Octopuses don't have skeletons) and go to town.
Also the wild shape feats. Aberrant, Dragon etc. You may well need extra Wild Shape too.

For example Elan (was a druid before falling and becoming an aberration Elan): Duskblade 4 (with Arcane Disciple Summoning Domain)/Blighter 4/Nar Demonbinder 2/Mystic Theurge 6. Replacing Mystic Theurge with Arcane Hierophant is tempting, but there are issues with trackess step and AH wildshape specifically working of your Druid levels.

[Shadowscale]

No. Planar Shepherd does things like take ten turns to everyone elses one turn and would have 9th level casting and planar wild shape in addition.

What you'd want is about three levels of Blighter, and then some PrC that full-advances spellcasting. Extra domains is good. Also, remember you're a blighter, you don't give a dead fig what the Hd of the class is, its all d12 to you. You also want to qualify for Blighter in some manner that leaves you with all your Druid levels lost rather than dead.

Good feats are Natural Spell, Enervating Touch etc Turn into a skeletal giant Octopus (What ever that looks like. Octopuses don't have skeletons) and go to town.
Also the wild shape feats. Aberrant, Dragon etc. You may well need extra Wild Shape too.

For example Elan (was a druid before falling and becoming an aberration Elan): Duskblade 4 (with Arcane Disciple Summoning Domain)/Blighter 4/Nar Demonbinder 2/Mystic Theurge 6. Replacing Mystic Theurge with Arcane Hierophant is tempting, but there are issues with trackess step and AH wildshape specifically working of your Druid levels.

Is it essential to be an Elan to do your build?

[Urpriest]

Would taking a bunch of levels in both classes be a decent character for tier 3-4?

If you don't do any of the more stupid Planar Shepherd tricks (Dal Quor, Efreet Wildshape) then probably. Quite swingy still though.

[Grim Reader]

Is it essential to be an Elan to do your build? Either that or some other way of satisfying the ex-druid requirement without being lumbered with dead levels.

[ExLibrisMortis]

You might even be able to eke out 18th level wizard casting if you can figure out a way to qualify for mystic theurge with only one level of blighter: Druid1/wizard8/blighter1/theurge10

Illumian (improved krau sigil) gets you second level spells on both druid and blighter. You can change which spells are heightened every time you gain a new level of spells to cast, and the first time you gain first-level blighter spells, that's a new level of spells.

Then, with Earth Sense and Earth Spell, you get another heighten, for a druid orison, cast from a first-level spell slot, counting as a third-level spell.

So in the end you need three feats, but you only need them after the wizard levels. So you can go:

wizard 8 - pick up improved krau sigil at 1, earth sense at 3, earth spell at 6
druid 1 - feat here
blighter 1 - heightened orison with earth spell & krau sigil
theurge 10 - same trick, easy entry at this point



Now, you could also do barbarian 2/paladin of slaughter 2/battle dancer 1/fighter 2/bard 1/druid 1/blighter 1/sublime chord 2/fochluchan lyrist 8.

Yes, the alignment is borked, I'm not even going to try to fix it. You need three feats for the heightening (using it both on bard and druid casting to get into blighter and sublime chord, respectively), and two for the evasion for Fochluchan Lyrist (shape soulmeld and open least chakra), which just about fits, but your skill ranks are going to be slightly difficult. Also, that feat that makes druid casting charisma-based (which is less third-party than the alignment this guy has). More difficult than skill ranks and alignment is figuring out how you are going to hide your blighty, slaughtery and barbarian-y tendencies while at the Fochluchan college. However, you do get 18 base attack (16 only if you don't use fractional), pounce, cha to saves and ac and double ninths, and one of those ninths doesn't come from a terrible list.

I originally had more bard levels and mystic theurge, but there's really no point in getting real second-level spells when you're abusing early entry so badly. There are probably better melee options, too.

[Starbuck_II]

Either that or some other way of satisfying the ex-druid requirement without being lumbered with dead levels.

Oh, I see, since you were once a Druid, even though you lost the levels you still qualify. Genius.

[Grim Reader]

Oh, I see, since you were once a Druid, even though you lost the levels you still qualify. Genius.

My one, personal contribution to the vast mountains of D&D lore:) However, while you can argue that being an ex-Druid qualifies, you can also be an Ex-Druid. For example, the act of becoming an Elan, an immortal aberration outside the cycle of life and death would probably cause you to fall as a Druid as well. But people have done worse things and fallen further in the pursuit of immortality.