Bleach X: Deicide (this time for real)

[-D-]

Bleach (blēch)

v. bleached, bleach·ing, bleach·es
v.tr.



a. To remove the color from, as by means of chemical agents or sunlight: Over time, the exposure to sunlight bleached the rug in front of the window.

b. To make white or colorless: Dawn bleached the mountains.
To whiten by causing the death or expulsion of algal symbionts from (coral).

v.intr.

To act as or use a bleach.
To become white as a result of the loss of algal symbionts, usually following an environmental stress such as increased water temperature. Used of coral.

n.

A chemical agent used for bleaching.


a. The act of bleaching.
b. The degree of bleaching obtained.

A Shōnen weekly manga written and illustrated by Tite Kubo, which follows the adventures of Kurosagi Ichigo.



Ichigo attempts to save them all, fails, and dooms them all! To be continued! Dun Dun Dun. He also killed Soul King the titular god of that place, hence the title.

Bleach IX:This isn't even my final thread! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?337232-Bleach-IX-This-isn-t-even-my-final-thread!)
Bleach VIII: ...All along... (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=15959416#post15959416)
Bleach VII: "Ichigo, you're a ."
(http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=275941)
Bleach VI: We Want Our Baby Bach Ribs (Aizen pull) (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=258585)
Bleach V: Well that was a waste of time (Fullbring? What's that?) (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=228437)
Bleach IV: Swords, Stains & Donuts (Problem, Ichigo?) (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=202921)
Since When Were You Under The Impression There Wasn't a Bleach III?
(http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=173692)Bleach II: I can't believe its not Butterflaizen!
(http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=162988)[S]the first thread still eludes me, sadlyBleach: (Formerly Gin Speculation, now general) (Spoilers) (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=147423)

[Rater202]

Yay. My suggestion won.

[-D-]

Yay. My suggestion won.
Funny enough I still read it sometimes as Decide.

[danzibr]

Hey, I'll repost what I said last time here, since I got no responses. Maybe nobody wanted to respond... in which case, feel free to not respond again.
I'll be pretty unhappy if Bleach pulls a Matrix. Or whatever.

Also the thought hit me... Yhwach said, according to the version I read, ``The Soul King was created by Soul Society to bring stability to the staggering, chaotic mass of traffic caused by souls traveling in and out! Now that he's gone, SS will return to its former existence.'' Along with everything else (except maybe Hell, as pointed out).

But if it just returns to how it was before he was there, it's not like it'll be obliterated. I mean, earlier it sounded like everything will unravel. Now it sounds like it's going to return to an earlier, more chaotic state, but in that earlier state SS was able to create the SK to bring stability. So uhh, not a total loss?

[LaZodiac]

Hey, I'll repost what I said last time here, since I got no responses. Maybe nobody wanted to respond... in which case, feel free to not respond again.
I'll be pretty unhappy if Bleach pulls a Matrix. Or whatever.

Also the thought hit me... Yhwach said, according to the version I read, ``The Soul King was created by Soul Society to bring stability to the staggering, chaotic mass of traffic caused by souls traveling in and out! Now that he's gone, SS will return to its former existence.'' Along with everything else (except maybe Hell, as pointed out).

But if it just returns to how it was before he was there, it's not like it'll be obliterated. I mean, earlier it sounded like everything will unravel. Now it sounds like it's going to return to an earlier, more chaotic state, but in that earlier state SS was able to create the SK to bring stability. So uhh, not a total loss?

Ah, sorry, didn't notice that.

I'll have to wait until I hear what the official translation for the line says, because my version said he created the Soul Society, while yours is the opposite. So...it'll be interesting to see which is which!

But yeah, if the series pulls an "everyone is dead, Dave" type twist, that'll be kind of awful, but also I think a really interesting twist.

[-D-]

Hey, I'll repost what I said last time here, since I got no responses. Maybe nobody wanted to respond... in which case, feel free to not respond again.
I'll be pretty unhappy if Bleach pulls a Matrix. Or whatever.

Also the thought hit me... Yhwach said, according to the version I read, ``The Soul King was created by Soul Society to bring stability to the staggering, chaotic mass of traffic caused by souls traveling in and out! Now that he's gone, SS will return to its former existence.'' Along with everything else (except maybe Hell, as pointed out).

But if it just returns to how it was before he was there, it's not like it'll be obliterated. I mean, earlier it sounded like everything will unravel. Now it sounds like it's going to return to an earlier, more chaotic state, but in that earlier state SS was able to create the SK to bring stability. So uhh, not a total loss?
Yeah, I'd be pretty strongly upset if they do that.
That kind of twist would feel lame and a copout.

I interpreted that as Soul King building the town, so that might get destroyed as well. I don't think the ENITRE world will unravel.

[Durkoala]

Hey, I'll repost what I said last time here, since I got no responses. Maybe nobody wanted to respond... in which case, feel free to not respond again.
I'll be pretty unhappy if Bleach pulls a Matrix. Or whatever.

Also the thought hit me... Yhwach said, according to the version I read, ``The Soul King was created by Soul Society to bring stability to the staggering, chaotic mass of traffic caused by souls traveling in and out! Now that he's gone, SS will return to its former existence.'' Along with everything else (except maybe Hell, as pointed out).

But if it just returns to how it was before he was there, it's not like it'll be obliterated. I mean, earlier it sounded like everything will unravel. Now it sounds like it's going to return to an earlier, more chaotic state, but in that earlier state SS was able to create the SK to bring stability. So uhh, not a total loss?

I think it means 'chaotic' as in 'primordial chaos'. All that will be left would be a great expanse of ghost-hydrogen, with who knows how long before another Soul King appeared to re-order it. What that would mean for the normal world which isn't made of spirit matter is an interesting question. Of course, my attempts at guessing Bleach haven't gone very well before...

Basically, the way I see it is everthing spiritual will unravel to the point of just being atomic particles: there will still be something there, but practically, everything is gone.


Ah, sorry, didn't notice that.

I'll have to wait until I hear what the official translation for the line says, because my version said he created the Soul Society, while yours is the opposite. So...it'll be interesting to see which is which!

But yeah, if the series pulls an "everyone is dead, Dave" type twist, that'll be kind of awful, but also I think a really interesting twist.

Spoiler: everybody is actually dead. They're all ghosts.

.... I'm still not sure how the reincarnation cycle works, actually. People die in the mundane world and travel to Soul Society intact in mind and body or become Hollows and move to Hueco Munedo. Souls can be fully converted to Shingami or Quincies. When any of these die, they apparently are reborn back in the mundane world, but we never see any evidence of this: no leftover memories, no powers from a previous life. Then there's the fact that people can be born in SS, and that Hell is said to be a place where the evil are contained forever, Yhwach's soul-eating everything and the whole thing becomes hopelessly confused.

[HandofShadows]

I think it means 'chaotic' as in 'primordial chaos'. All that will be left would be a great expanse of ghost-hydrogen, with who knows how long before another Soul King appeared to re-order it. What that would mean for the normal world which isn't made of spirit matter is an interesting question.

I think we are seeing what happens to the material world at the start of the latest chapter. The material world is suffering an extended earthquake. Will the whole planet shake apart? :smalleek:

[-D-]

I think we are seeing what happens to the material world at the start of the latest chapter.
Fool! Everyone knows only material world is Japan! And it's been shaking for some time now. DUN DUN DUN.

[Rater202]

Fullbring is Hollow Powers, and Hollow Powers are representations of one's heart's desire, yes?

So if a Fullbringer really really really wanted to be a fictional character, would their Fullbring be similar the abilities of that character?

[HandofShadows]

Hollow's are souls that have LOST their hearts, not their hearts desire. Hollow related powers absorb spiritual energy around them in some way to be used by the person that absorbed it.

[Rater202]

Hollow's are souls that have LOST their hearts, not their hearts desire. Hollow related powers absorb spiritual energy around them in some way to be used by the person that absorbed it.

Hollows don't lose their hearts.

The Hollow's heart just takes a new form-the Mask.

Hollow Powers, and by extension, Fullbring, come from the heart. Explicitly. Reread the lost Agent Arc.

[ben-zayb]

What I don't get is what Bach will get from this. Does he plan to remake the world? Why? And with how? Because as I remember it, the reishi he took from the humans still came from the Soul King. With his death, everything he created are implied to be in the brink of destruction/inexistence.

[Rater202]

He's a Super Powered Sociopath with a God Complex who just killed God. He has the power to omnomnom things he kills and thus gain their power. What do you think he gains from it?

[ben-zayb]

He's a Super Powered Sociopath with a God Complex who just killed God. He has the power to omnomnom things he kills and thus gain their power. What do you think he gains from it?

Depends on if what you omnomnom suddenly disappears into oblivion. At least from the way I understood the consequences of SK's death

[Rater202]

Depends on if what you omnomnom suddenly disappears into oblivion. At least from the way I understood the consequences of SK's death

Chances are he just omnomnomed the soul king.

Meaning he could, um, take the Soul Kings place once the world reverts to the primal Chaos.

Meaning he could upgrade from "Super Powered Sociopath who thinks he's God" to "Super Powered Sociopath that is God".

[ben-zayb]

Chances are he just omnomnomed the soul king.

Meaning he could, um, take the Soul Kings place once the world reverts to the primal Chaos.

Meaning he could upgrade from "Super Powered Sociopath who thinks he's God" to "Super Powered Sociopath that is God".
But it's exactly the God Complex being an end in itself that I don't get, and I don't exactly know the perks of being a God aside from possibly shaping the world the way you want it. And that's also assuming that there is even a "primal Chaos" composed of reishi or what-have-you to shape anyway.

[Rater202]

He's a Sociopath with a God Complex.

Becoming God literally, means he goes from being crazy to being legitimate, and Sociopaths tend to get off on the power, so if he takes the Soul King's Place, he effectively becomes the most powerful thing there is.

He doesn't need a motivation to kill and nom the Soul King beyond "his existence proves my delusions wrong".

His refering to the Soul King as Father might not even mean anything.

[ben-zayb]

Yeah, I get that. Just figured that Ywhach was far more entertaining when it seems the arc was about "Quincies vs Shinigamis", instead of Ywhach turning out to be another Aizen except with a 'stache that has a disturbingly high growth rate (seriously, I'd pay good money to know the secret).

[LaZodiac]

The Soul King is Bach's Dad, so maybe he's trying to ascend to god hood?

[danzibr]

One thing that wasn't mentioned in this thread so far, is it seems he wanted revenge pretty badly. Maybe he has no intention of/can't take the place of SK. Just wanted his revenge regardless of the fact (?) that everything was crumble.

[ben-zayb]

One thing that wasn't mentioned in this thread so far, is it seems he wanted revenge pretty badly. Maybe he has no intention of/can't take the place of SK. Just wanted his revenge regardless of the fact (?) that everything was crumble.

Well, the "quincy vs shinigami" I mentioned seems to be that at face value. I hoped Kubo built up on that more instead.

[Codyage]

Well, this was...not what I was expecting to say the least. Except for the last part, but I think a lot of people were expecting that to happen some time soon.

[danzibr]

I wonder if the main event was foreshadowed. The end we saw coming, but that Mimihagi-sama stuff? Other than that one panel recently, I didn't see this coming at all. Feels like an ass-pull.

[lord_khaine]

Well.. that was actually a pretty nice chapter this week.

Liked where the plot is headed even though its hard to see where :P

[ben-zayb]

I wonder if the main event was foreshadowed. The end we saw coming, but that Mimihagi-sama stuff? Other than that one panel recently, I didn't see this coming at all. Feels like an ass-pull.

Pretty sure plenty of people are already speculating on Ukitake doing something with the Soul King with Kamikake, so this chapter is more of confirmations than twists. You can't go wrong on something translatable as"God Bet" having a relation to the SK.Most speculation is that Ukitake will be the Soul King, or his vessel. The Mimihagi part was the slight change.
EDIT: can't remember if those speculations are on this forum, though. I'm on multiple bleach threads but those appeared at least on three threads/forums.

Still liked the visual, though. Mimihagi's eye reminded me of Prismo (for those who know) for some reason.

[Rater202]

So, Ulitake's illness and coffing was because his parents sacrificed his lungs to a minor god to keep him alive from a deadlier illness? Did I read that right?

And now Ukitake scarified the rest of his organs to merge with that god, hoping that their combined self will be able to take the Soul Kings place?

And Head Captain Alchy has gone to speak with Aizen...

Well, what are the chances that "Ichigo becomes the new Soul King" will be jossed?

[LaZodiac]

I wonder if the main event was foreshadowed. The end we saw coming, but that Mimihagi-sama stuff? Other than that one panel recently, I didn't see this coming at all. Feels like an ass-pull.

It's a 100% asspull, we've never heard of this before that I'm aware.

Also, Captain Eyepatch has his eyepatch on in that scene. It really does seem like Kubo just...FORGOT to put his eyepatch on.

[HandofShadows]

Part of me gets the feeling that this was all planned ahead of time. Or more likely a contingency plan. And Hat & Clogs got caught flat footed for once. :smalleek:

[LaZodiac]

So the official english translation says that the Spirit King was created to stabilize the worlds...so yeah, that's interesting. Especially considering today's chapter.

Kubo do you even care anymore?

[ben-zayb]

Part of me gets the feeling that this was all planned ahead of time. Or more likely a contingency plan. And Hat & Clogs got caught flat footed for once. :smalleek:

It is. This chapter is basically the reveal of what the senior duo were up to, and the kamikake's purpose and the central46 trip were well speculated before.

[danzibr]

So the official english translation says that the Spirit King was created to stabilize the worlds...so yeah, that's interesting. Especially considering today's chapter.

Kubo do you even care anymore?
Iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiinteresting. I really wonder about the Mimihagi thing. Maybe SK was ``made'' in a similar way, like how maybe now Ukitake is being made into a new SK.

But really, the Mimihagi thing is feeling more and more like an donkeypull. I'll have to reread the manga when this is all over and see how much I appreciate Kubo's ability to foreshadow.

[LaZodiac]

Iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiinteresting. I really wonder about the Mimihagi thing. Maybe SK was ``made'' in a similar way, like how maybe now Ukitake is being made into a new SK.

But really, the Mimihagi thing is feeling more and more like an donkeypull. I'll have to reread the manga when this is all over and see how much I appreciate Kubo's ability to foreshadow.

The only thing I can really accept as foreshadowing is Ichigo's quincy powers and the mysteriousness of Old Man Getsu vs White Zangetsu. Everything else just seems incredibly poorly executed. We were lead to believe the entire time that Ukitake was sick because of his tuberculosis, but instead it's because a giant hand shaped god with an eyeball on it that's secretly the right arm of the Spirit King took his lungs and is slowly taking every other part of him...except his eyes.

And again Kubo keeps on forgetting Captain Eyepatch's eyepatch so I'm PRETTY sure he's just stopped caring. Unless it's some really stupid twist like "You need both eyes to see Aizen's release to be affected by it so I only wear my eyepatch in certain situations" and so on.

[danzibr]

The only thing I can really accept as foreshadowing is Ichigo's quincy powers and the mysteriousness of Old Man Getsu vs White Zangetsu. Everything else just seems incredibly poorly executed. We were lead to believe the entire time that Ukitake was sick because of his tuberculosis, but instead it's because a giant hand shaped god with an eyeball on it that's secretly the right arm of the Spirit King took his lungs and is slowly taking every other part of him...except his eyes.

And again Kubo keeps on forgetting Captain Eyepatch's eyepatch so I'm PRETTY sure he's just stopped caring. Unless it's some really stupid twist like "You need both eyes to see Aizen's release to be affected by it so I only wear my eyepatch in certain situations" and so on.
True, Ichigo being super hybrid was foreshadowed well, methinks.

And when was his eyepatch not drawn? Not saying you're wrong, but I checked the most recent chapter and he fer sher had it on.

In other news... even though we knew Aizen was going to come back, I'm excited about it. My two favorite characters about to join the fray :)

And I just realized that Kubo said we'd see everyone's bankai before the end. So... Ukitake can't go now.

[LaZodiac]

True, Ichigo being super hybrid was foreshadowed well, methinks.

And when was his eyepatch not drawn? Not saying you're wrong, but I checked the most recent chapter and he fer sher had it on.

In other news... even though we knew Aizen was going to come back, I'm excited about it. My two favorite characters about to join the fray :)

And I just realized that Kubo said we'd see everyone's bankai before the end. So... Ukitake can't go now.

The chapter before last, he had both eyes. I'd get some specific examples but I'm sleepy.

[Starwulf]

Can someone please link me to a site that has the newest(616) issue of Bleach? All the normal ones I'd visit seem to no longer carry, and even narutomanga.org does not have the newest one up. Getting on my nerves. At first I thought maybe it just hadn't been released, but then I come here, opened up a few of the spoilers, see something about Ukitake and other things and now I'm more annoyed then before >< So, please, for the love of god, link me a site someone! :)

[Mato]

I've been using mangapanda lately.

[Starwulf]

Thanks to those who sent me a link :) Oddly enough some of them still wouldn't work, no idea why, it's like my browser decided it didn't want to let them load. But one of them did work and I finally got to read this weeks issue ^^ Interesting stuff, especially The One-Eyed god stuff with Ukitake. Not sure exactly how it's going to work out, but it's interesting nonetheless. Hate that action was pulled away from Ichigo and the others though.

[Starwulf]

New Chapter!

Oooook, soo, it appears that they are freeing on crazy, evil insane megalomaniac, in order to fight another crazy, evil insane megalomaniac. Does anyone else feel that this is a momentously bad idea, or is it just me?

[HandofShadows]

I think we have hit the Godzilla Threshold. :smalleek:

[some_geek]

New Chapter!

Oooook, soo, it appears that they are freeing on crazy, evil insane megalomaniac, in order to fight another crazy, evil insane megalomaniac. Does anyone else feel that this is a momentously bad idea, or is it just me?


If one of the crazy, evil insane megalomaniacs (Yuwa Bach) tries to destroy everything in existence and the other one (Aizen) is just trying to rule everything or whatever, maybe the chances for everyone would be better if the second one (Aizen) wins. Its kind of a desperate move, but in the case of Aizen winning, they might buy more time.

It is interesting to see the epic illusionist (Aizen) and epic divination specialist (Yuwa Bach) fighting, their powers might cancel each other out.

[LaZodiac]

Nothing about this makes any sense. Juha Bach can see the future of everything...except for guessing what Kubo will pull out of his ass to beat him. Aizen is apparently just a mouth, if unsealing his mouth apparently set him free like that. THAT BEING SAID, I do like the super elaborate bondage death seal they have on Aizen. I'd rather he be, you know, dead, but "literally sealed every last bit of him under seperate locks" is a pretty good way of assuring Aizen doesn't...like, get out of good behavior.

[Rater202]

Nothing about this makes any sense. Juha Bach can see the future of everything...except for guessing what Kubo will pull out of his ass to beat him. Aizen is apparently just a mouth, if unsealing his mouth apparently set him free like that. THAT BEING SAID, I do like the super elaborate bondage death seal they have on Aizen. I'd rather he be, you know, dead, but "literally sealed every last bit of him under seperate locks" is a pretty good way of assuring Aizen doesn't...like, get out of good behavior.

If his fight with murder Monk is accurate, he needs to know about something to work the Almighty's powers uponit.

If he didn't know Ukitake had Eyeball Hand head in him, then he wouldn't have been able to forsee him sacrificing his life in exchange for hand head cyclops temporarily taking the Soul King's place.

As for Aizen, I figured it as as simple as Aizen's transcendental power being so great that as soon as part of him is unsealed, he can break some of the other seals himself.

Alternatively-it's an illusion. Cause he does those.

[LaZodiac]

If his fight with murder Monk is accurate, he needs to know about something to work the Almighty's powers uponit.

If he didn't know Ukitake had Eyeball Hand head in him, then he wouldn't have been able to forsee him sacrificing his life in exchange for hand head cyclops temporarily taking the Soul King's place.

As for Aizen, I figured it as as simple as Aizen's transcendental power being so great that as soon as part of him is unsealed, he can break some of the other seals himself.

Alternatively-it's an illusion. Cause he does those.

Raioh is Bach's Dad, I think he'd know if his Dad's arm fell off and and became a different God. But I get your point.

Aizen's completely sealed except for his mouth. He shouldn't be able to do anything but speak. But then he can apparently speak with his Reitsu so maybe he could make his illusions and stuff. Which...is really bad and stupid considering it's AIZEN.

[Rater202]

Raioh is Bach's Dad, I think he'd know if his Dad's arm fell off and and became a different God. But I get your point.

Aizen's completely sealed except for his mouth. He shouldn't be able to do anything but speak. But then he can apparently speak with his Reiatsu so maybe he could make his illusions and stuff. Which...is really bad and stupid considering it's AIZEN.

This assumes that Handclops is literally the Soul King's Right arm, and not his "Right hand man", so to speak.

And knowing of his existence does not mean he knows it, or it's powers, or that it was living in Ukitake's lungs.

If "The Almighty" only works on things Yhwach understands, then not knowing that Ukitake had handclaps, or not knowing what handclops powers were would mean he couldn't foresee handclops holding soul society togetherAizen had some way of saying "No" to Yhwach's offer and doing that "perception of time" illusion to him, so even with his mouth locked up, he wasn't completely sealed.

If it's a seal network, removing one could have weakened the rest, allowing Aizen, who's power is literally godlike, to break the next few weakest seals on his own.

[danzibr]

I too found it odd Yhwach didn't see the big hand coming. I wonder if, as others speculated, it's due to him having to know about it/understand it.

Likewise, I wonder what's up with Aizen. Part of me gets the feeling he's so bamf he was able to break free (like Rand al'Thor in... I forget the exact book, when he's shielded and breaks free), or if Kyouraku is under his spell, so to speak.

Regardless, I'm happy about Aizen's return :)
EDIT: Also, 'dat picture (http://mangahead.com/index.php/Manga-English-Scan/Bleach/Bleach-617-English-Scan/02.jpg?action=big&size=original).

[Lethologica]

So what I'm hearing is, Bach's power is total mastery over anything that has been given exposition in his presence. Given that this is Bleach, that should make him invincible. :smalltongue:

[-D-]

So what I'm hearing is, Bach's power is total mastery over anything that has been given exposition in his presence. Given that this is Bleach, that should make him invincible. :smalltongue:

Given that Aizen power is generating powers per second, I'd say they are evenly matched.

[danzibr]

So what I'm hearing is, Bach's power is total mastery over anything that has been given exposition in his presence. Given that this is Bleach, that should make him invincible. :smalltongue:

Given that Aizen power is generating powers per second, I'd say they are evenly matched.
Actually... I think it depends on what Lethologica's explanation means, exactly. If Aizen shows something false to him...

[LaZodiac]

Actually... I think it depends on what Lethologica's explanation means, exactly. If Aizen shows something false to him...

Why would he lie though? He's Aizen, beating someone who doesn't fully understand his power is BORING. It's what DUMB people do, like Gin.

*vomits*

I hate Aizen so much.

[Rater202]

Well here's hoping that my theory is right, and he's going to be fed to Ichigo in order to make Ichigo strong enough to kill Yhwach and/or take the Soul Kings place.

[ben-zayb]

I have no idea what Aizen did, but that wasn't how KS worked before.

Unless Aizen pulled a Danzou on Shunsui, which would imply that the capn commander is too stupid to live.

[Rater202]

KS disappeared.

Aizen said he didn't need the sword to use his powers anymore.

He was right.

We know this already, because he illusioned Yhwach.

[ben-zayb]

His sword not being needed doesn't necessarily mean it wasn't KS (or its bankai) though. For all we know, he could be in a state not unlike a permanent resurreccion--you have your abilities without the sword.

[Rater202]

...basically what I was trying to say.

remember, the Zanpakuto Spirit and the Zanpakuto sword are different things-the sword is just a tool the Shinigami bonds with in order to use the powers of the Spirit, and the spirit is literally just an aspect of themselves.

Aizen claimed he didn't need the sword because he didn't need to use the sword-he might well be able to use KS, which is his power, without a sword as a focus.

[ben-zayb]

Eh? Of course we already know that the sword and the spirit are different, so what's the point in saying KS (the spirit) disappeared when it doesn't seem to be the case. It appears that you are the one who confused KS for Aizen's asauchi, which is what disappeared.

Anyway, that's not even what I'm talking about earlier, which was how Aizen's type of illusion (KS), substitution/disguise of what one is sensing (e.g. mosquito looks like a dragon), isn't compatible to what Aizen did to Shunsui unless it's specifically akin to what happened to Danzou (in Naruto).

By the same logic, it's incompatible to the illusion he did to Bach unless Kubo actually realized that there are more than 5 senses, and "sense of time" is one of those that can be affected.

[Rater202]

I was specifically referring to KS the sword, not KS the Spirit.

Aizen no longer needs KS the sword to use his powers of illusion, as he has become one with KS the spirit.

Or at least that's what Aizen claimed.

[Ramza00]

So what do you want to bet that Mimihagi and Bach are literally the same kind of entity. A spawn off the original soul king who can give live but also take it away. Currently Mimihagi has power for Ukitake is giving up his life but without a host Mimihagi is not sustainable. Just like Bach must continuously give power and take away or else he goes blind. If Bach were to have any part of the soul king I guess it would be the soul kings eyes.

If so is Bach really the soul kings son or just a human who can manipulate the essence of the soul king he has come into contact like a fullbring?

[ben-zayb]

So what do you want to bet that Mimihagi and Bach are literally the same kind of entity. A spawn off the original soul king who can give live but also take it away. Currently Mimihagi has power for Ukitake is giving up his life but without a host Mimihagi is not sustainable. Just like Bach must continuously give power and take away or else he goes blind. If Bach were to have any part of the soul king I guess it would be the soul kings eyes.

If so is Bach really the soul kings son or just a human who can manipulate the essence of the soul king he has come into contact like a fullbring?

One of the prevalent speculation is that Mimihagi is literally the right hand of SK (not surprising if ever). It would make sense if the three other limbs are just, if not just a bit less, powerful. Bach could be the left hand, while the two others may be embedded in another person, is a person itself, locked or hidden somewhere, or placed in one of those fancy artifacts.

[Thrawn183]

KS disappeared.

Aizen said he didn't need the sword to use his powers anymore.


What makes you think Aizen hasn't had his sword all along?

[Rater202]

I know you're joking, but the sword disintegrated on screen, where Ichigo was the only one present to see it, and Ichigo is not under 100% Hypnosis, so it couldn't have been an illusion.

[TechnoWarforged]

If I'm allow to speculate:


I think Strawhat's decision is to rather have Aizen become the new SK rather then having Bach destroy all existence. In a way it does explain why we currently exist in this cruel cruel world and why Tibo is such a fricking troll.

[danzibr]

If I'm allow to speculate:


I think Strawhat's decision is to rather have Aizen become the new SK rather then having Bach destroy all existence. In a way it does explain why we currently exist in this cruel cruel world and why Tibo is such a fricking troll.
Huh...

I can see it. Was Aizen's original motivation to become SK? I mean, supposedly SS *needs* one.

[Rater202]

Huh...

I can see it. Was Aizen's original motivation to become SK? I mean, supposedly SS *needs* one.

His original plan was "Become god, kill soul king, replace soulking".

He complete step one,but then he got arrogant due to being high on his newfound divinity, allowing Ichigo to kick his ass and break his spirit, thus allowing Urahara to seal his power, thus defeating Aizen.

[danzibr]

His original plan was "Become god, kill soul king, replace soulking".

He complete step one,but then he got arrogant due to being high on his newfound divinity, allowing Ichigo to kick his ass and break his spirit, thus allowing Urahara to seal his power, thus defeating Aizen.
Kyouraku: So... Aizen. SK's dead. Want to take his place?
Aizen: Sure.

[Rater202]

I'm still hoping the plan is "feed him to Ichigo".

Aizen did say that he was intending to consume Ichigo, which makes sense-Ichigo's soul is all four kinds of soul Simultaneously, meaning that Ichigo has the potential to use every kind of spiritual power.

His power is(was?) transcendental without using the Hogyoku to become a god, and that was before he awakened his Quincy Power of perfectly master his Zanpakuto.

combine that power/potential with Aizen's transcendental divine power, and you're guaranteed to have something on the Soul King's Level.

I'm honestly expecting that Ichi and the gang are going to lose and have to flee, right after Ichi shows off his new bankai and/or hollowfication.

[HandofShadows]

New Chapter

Ok, (re?)making the Soul King, Aizen playing games and Ichigo tells Bach to basically go ^$%# himself and gets into "I'm going to protect people mode." And that is when Ichigo is at his most dangerous as we well know. I wonder what that armor like stuff in? Quincy or Hollow based?

[LaZodiac]

You know...this was just a really good chapter. It had some issues due to the previous chapters being awful but...well, this one wasn't bad.

[Rater202]

I just hope that next chapter we see like, Ichigo's new bankai, or maybe see him use his hollow mask, since he's accepted that it's part of himself.

[danzibr]

I like how Kubo brought back the whole I'm-so-bamf-if-you-come-near-me-you'll-die thing. That guy's poor hands :(

[Cyber Punk]

At last, Aizen shows his face again. This chapter was good. Better than the last ones.

What I want to see as well is Ichigo's new bankai.

[Razade]

New Chapter. Nothing to spoiler. Just the worst.

[chainer1216]

why all the extreme close ups? i don't need to see how perfect bach's teeth are Kubo.

[ryuplaneswalker]

I do sorta want to see Bach get his head kicked in now simply for that "Your mother's death was YOUR FAULT, cause you were like 5 at the time and that is totally not a legitimate reason for your mother getting killed by a heartless demon soul thing!"

[ben-zayb]

So...Kubo really wants to hammer down the idea of Ywach being another Aizen, while at the same time unleashing the original back to the fray. Ooh boy, SS will be further reduced to nothing but crossfire casualties.

[ryuplaneswalker]

So...Kubo really wants to hammer down the idea of Ywach being another Aizen, while at the same time unleashing the original back to the fray. Ooh boy, SS will be further reduced to nothing but crossfire casualties.

That or Ywach/Aizen OTP happens.

[HandofShadows]

I do sorta want to see Bach get his head kicked in now simply for that "Your mother's death was YOUR FAULT, cause you were like 5 at the time and that is totally not a legitimate reason for your mother getting killed by a heartless demon soul thing!"

I think he is trying to mess with Ichigo's head when he said that. To try and play on his guilt. IMO that is a VERY bad move. Ichigo knows damn well it wasn't his fault and that the REAL fault is Ywach's. All he did was tick Ichigo off (which is usually a VERY bad thing to do.) and shows that Ywach isn't as good with head games as he thinks he is.

[ryuplaneswalker]

I think he is trying to mess with Ichigo's head when he said that. To try and play on his guilt. IMO that is a VERY bad move. Ichigo knows damn well it wasn't his fault and that the REAL fault is Ywach's. All he did was tick Ichigo off (which is usually a VERY bad thing to do.) and shows that Ywach isn't as good with head games as he thinks he is.

Oh I realize that, it is still just a really petty and stupid thing to say at this point in the plot, it would be like Mingo telling Luffy "Hey you failed to save Ace!"

The dude is trying to destroy reality to replace it with his own vision, now mind you I haven't CARED about that really and am reading sheerly through inertia, sure he needed to be killed before..but now he is just deserves a kick to the head.

[Rater202]

Oh I realize that, it is still just a really petty and stupid thing to say at this point in the plot, it would be like Mingo telling Luffy "Hey you failed to save Ace!"

The dude is trying to destroy reality to replace it with his own vision, now mind you I haven't CARED about that really and am reading sheerly through inertia, sure he needed to be killed before..but now he is just deserves a kick to the head.

The Translation I read (http://readms.com/r/bleach/619/2715/9)said that Ichigo was weak becuase he was saying "I will stop you" and not "I will kill you", implying that he's not even willing to kill the man who murdered his mother.

I also dont' think he's bieing an Aizen Expy as much as talking out of his ass to enrage Ichigo.

Though Ichigo survived the Auschwallen... Unless he wasn't on the list of Quincy to be depowered. That might be what Yhwach meant by everything Ichigo did was with his consent becuase they have the same "blood"

Yhwach has some kind of ability to sense those with his blood-that's th only way he could, as he claimed, personally check off that it would only be the impure Quincy that died.

At any time Yhwach could have performed his Auschwallen again and depowered Ichigo...

And he's telling this to Ichigo deliberately to piss him off...

I'd kind of like to see him try to Aushwallen Ichigo only to fail because of just how well Ichigo's Quincy Powers are integrated with his Shinigami Powers.

[LaZodiac]

Guys. It finally happened. It finally ****ing happened.

The chapter title is on THE VERY LAST PAGE OF THE CHAPTER! We have reached peek Kubo Tite. Abandon all hope ye who enter here.

[Lurkmoar]

Guys. It finally happened. It finally ****ing happened.

The chapter title is on THE VERY LAST PAGE OF THE CHAPTER! We have reached peek Kubo Tite. Abandon all hope ye who enter here.

I like how it's supposed to be a surprise. Or maybe it's just Ichigo's Scooby gang realizing that Uryuu isn't with them or something.

[TechnoWarforged]

Guys. It finally happened. It finally ****ing happened.

The chapter title is on THE VERY LAST PAGE OF THE CHAPTER! We have reached peek Kubo Tite. Abandon all hope ye who enter here.

"Peak Kubo Tite: Abandon all hope ye who enter here" Would make a nice title to the next thread... assuming there will be one.


I guess Yhwach forgot Ich knew his mother died because of Auschwallen.

Also it's Ichgo vs Uryuu and everyone else vs Yhwach... and that everyone else would (hopefully) include Azien.

[Rater202]

I guess Yhwach forgot Ich knew his mother died because of Auschwallen.

Again, Yhwach said Ichigo was weak because he didn't say he would kill the man who killed his mother.

At least in the translation I read.

[Ramza00]

We do not know why but Ichigo and Uryu Ishida are different. Both of them should have lost their quincy powers but they did not. Furthermore both of them survived Auswahlen when Bach used it 9 years ago. Now you can survive Auswahlen even if your powers are removed (as evidenced by Ichigo's Mother, who survived but later died to the grand fisher, and a couple steinreitters in manga 604 such as Bazz B (the fire quincy) that said according to Bach's right hand man Haschwalth you are not supposed to be able to survive Auswahlen but evidently you can.

So what makes Ichigo and Uryu different we do not know. Ichigo probably has Urahara, Aizen, and his parents to thank for this for Urahara and his parents made a shell to hide Ichigo's quincy self from his internal hollow that he inherited from his mother. When he was born from his mother the hollow, the shell, and the reishi string binding him to his father was transferred to him and covered up his quincy soul. Ichigo could not communicate with the old man quincy until he actually died by having his soul chain removed by urahara which then cut the reishi string binding him to his papa. Ichigo could then communicate to old man quincy via entering his inner world and he had to become more than a dying human or else he would perish, thus even though the old man quincy did not want Ichigo to become a shinigami he took the first step with Ichigo willingly, yet during all the remaining time he tried to suppress the true shinigami/hollow half but during Ichigo's battle with elite opponents such as Renji, Zaraki, and Byakuya he had to let the hollow reiatsu and powers leak out or both of them would perish.

----

Now why would Bach ever care about Ichigo? He can gain his own unlimited power just by giving his power out and then taking more back. They do not need to be his blood but that just helps the process, he can do this the soul reapers he kills merely by them touching his reiatsu.

And Bach has the power to kill the soul king himself.

My only theory is that he is going to try to pull a body switch with Ichigo or Ishida. Not for the potential of more power, but instead for the potential of stable power. Currently Bach can not sustain himself indefinitely, first he has to sleep and close his eyes (and this is why he did not take Ichigo with him before due to Aizen messing with his sense of time), second his power stealing needs to be continued indefinitely or he will become the crippled blind baby again.

The fact that Ichigo and Ishida could not get their powers stolen from them perhaps means they infact have stable human bodies which if he were to transfer himself into perhaps his powers will be completely stable. Powers can not be stolen from these bodies, then perhaps they do not leak out and have to be completely maintained by stealing other people's abilities.

[danzibr]

Half the chapter was a lame brain game of Yhwach's, another fourth was weird art where I couldn't tell what was going on (what ruined Yoruichi's arm?), and the last fourth was a not-surprising-in-the-least reveal.

I usually defend Kubo, but man this was not a great chapter for me.

[LaZodiac]

Half the chapter was a lame brain game of Yhwach's, another fourth was weird art where I couldn't tell what was going on (what ruined Yoruichi's arm?), and the last fourth was a not-surprising-in-the-least reveal.

I usually defend Kubo, but man this was not a great chapter for me.

It was The Compulsory that broke her arm. He just kinda...talked at it, cause that's what he does.

[ryuplaneswalker]

The Translation I read (http://readms.com/r/bleach/619/2715/9)said that Ichigo was weak becuase he was saying "I will stop you" and not "I will kill you", implying that he's not even willing to kill the man who murdered his mother.

I also dont' think he's bieing an Aizen Expy as much as talking out of his ass to enrage Ichigo.

Though Ichigo survived the Auschwallen... Unless he wasn't on the list of Quincy to be depowered. That might be what Yhwach meant by everything Ichigo did was with his consent becuase they have the same "blood"

Yhwach has some kind of ability to sense those with his blood-that's th only way he could, as he claimed, personally check off that it would only be the impure Quincy that died.

At any time Yhwach could have performed his Auschwallen again and depowered Ichigo...

And he's telling this to Ichigo deliberately to piss him off...

I'd kind of like to see him try to Aushwallen Ichigo only to fail because of just how well Ichigo's Quincy Powers are integrated with his Shinigami Powers.

I want to see him Aushwallen Ichigo..get the Shinigami powers..and get taken over by Hollow/Shinigami/What the heck ever he is now Ichigo

[Rater202]

I want to see him Aushwallen Ichigo..get the Shinigami powers..and get taken over by Hollow/Shinigami/What the heck ever he is now Ichigo

If you're talking about who I think you're talking about, then I think he's just "Zangetsu" now.

[ben-zayb]

Implying each Quincy might have their own version of an inner world Ywhach Bach

[Rater202]

Implying each Quincy might have their own version of an inner world Ywhach Bach

I'm not seeing what you're talking about.

I'm pretty sure he was talking about Ichigo's inner hollow, who is also his Zanpakuto Spirit, and thus is named "Zangetsu"

Ichigo is just calling the Old Man Zangetsu, and asked the real Zangetsu if that's alright.

[ben-zayb]

Ack. What I meant was more of realization than implication. If Ichigo can talk to his inner power source(s), then the quincies could've too.

[Rater202]

And it comes from where?

[ben-zayb]

And it comes from where?

Because Ichigo isn't special as far as his quincy power is concerned (unless we take the "blood" relation literally), and he can talk to his inner Bach.

[danzibr]

Because Ichigo isn't special as far as his quincy power is concerned (unless we take the "blood" relation literally), and he can talk to his inner Bach.
Yeah actually... Ichigo doesn't seem to get much from his Quincy powers. Gobbling up reiatsu and blut, is that it?

[ben-zayb]

He didn't even have that blue ribbon stuff back then, which should indicate a hint of quinciness. They were mostly white (reflecting his human side) and that lone red ribbon (for "Zangetsu" representing his shinigaminess supposedly, so it's funny how that worked out).

On the flip side, it's weird that he can manifest Blut all of a sudden, while we never had anything similar from Ishida before (and until now, so far). I swear, if Ichigo's snowflake get any more special...

[Calemyr]

One question from the uninitiated (I don't keep up on the manga) - Could IchiBach simply choose not to return when Bach called for him back then? I mean, IchiBach is sitting square in the heart of Human/Shinigami/Quincy hybrid with a Hollow for a roommate. That's some rather unique circumstances, worth sticking around for, don't you think? Or could it simply be that sharing a soul with a Hollow changed IchiBach enough over the years that He was sentient enough (or corrupted enough) not to respond?

Or is it possible that Ichigo's composite nature is such that, impure a Quincy as he may be, he wraps right back around to being the closest in nature to Bach in the first place?

[Rater202]

Yeah actually... Ichigo doesn't seem to get much from his Quincy powers. Gobbling up reiatsu and blut, is that it?
When he got his Own Ausachi, he willed The Old Man to become Part of his Zanpakuto. That's why he has two swords ow.

Other than that, all we've seen is that his Quincy sword is the one that does Getsuga Tensho now, unless he does that double Getsuga thing.

HE might have the abillity to manifest as Spirit Weapon, but he doens't have a cross or pentacle to manifest one from and he doesn't really have much reason too since he Has Zangetsu.

He didn't even have that blue ribbon stuff back then, which should indicate a hint of quinciness. They were mostly white (reflecting his human side) and that lone red ribbon (for "Zangetsu" representing his shinigaminess supposedly, so it's funny how that worked out). Nit-Pick, it's entirely possible that The Old Man manifesting to Ichigo while the real Zangetsu was held dormant would mean that their woldn't be an quincy ribbons.

alternatively, there weren't any because his Quincy nature was suppressed by that protection that kept his mother's hollow-side from manifesting and killing her.


On the flip side, it's weird that he can manifest Blut all of a sudden, while we never had anything similar from Ishida before (and until now, so far). I swear, if Ichigo's snowflake get any more special...
Explicitly it's not so much "all of a sudden" as it is "it's just now awakened Quincy abillities" which happened from him somehow absorbing some power Opie's jail.

He awakened his powers by absorbing power from a pure Quincy and IIRC Yhwach said something about Ichigo's blut coming from his mother and Isshin said something about Masaki sealing her skill in blut into him, but I might be misremembering that.

either way, Old Man Zangetsu helped him use some kind of pseudo blut during his fight against Kenpachi, which might be what leeds ichigo to be able to use the real thing now.

Ishida is an impure Quincy. For Pure Quincy, Blut is instinctive, but impure Quincy have to learn it. Ishida's grandfather might not have gotten around to teaching it too him, and of course his father isn't going to teach him.

He might not have learned it till after he joined the Vandenreich.

One question from the uninitiated (I don't keep up on the manga) - Could IchiBach simply choose not to return when Bach called for him back then? I mean, IchiBach is sitting square in the heart of Human/Shinigami/Quincy hybrid with a Hollow for a roommate. That's some rather unique circumstances, worth sticking around for, don't you think? Or could it simply be that sharing a soul with a Hollow changed IchiBach enough over the years that He was sentient enough (or corrupted enough) not to respond?
It wasn't so much sharing a soul with a hollow as it was living inside someone part hollow-Zangetsu is't Just Ichigo's inner hollow, but Ichigo's Zanpakuto, and since the Zanpakuto is literally just a part of the Shinigami.

Ichiback is part of Zangetsu now though, meaning that he too is one with Ichigo's Shinigami and Hollow Powers, meaning it might not even be possible to call Ichigo a Shinigami, or a Hollow, or a Quincy anymore, technically, based on power.

So what would happen if Yhwach tried to Aushwallen Ichigo is a matter of debate.

Or is it possible that Ichigo's composite nature is such that, impure a Quincy as he may be, he wraps right back around to being the closest in nature to Bach in the first place?

If Bach's power is similar to the Soul King's, then it's likely that Ichigo's nature is also similar or has potential to be similar.

Ordinary Quincy don't count as human as far as souls are concerned, but Ichigo does-so he has that human malleability in his soul, combined with all three(four?) kinds of spiritual power, meaning that he could potentially become anything.

[ben-zayb]

Pseudo-blut? You don't mean the same reason why Ichigo can't initially cut down Kenpachi, right? Cause that is sheer reiatsu + killing/fighting conviction. Or was it the magic badge / hollow mask? If the "dweomer" is any indication, the whole kenpachi battle conclusion was all courtesy of the Hollow/Shinigami Zangetsu, which explains the badge

[danzibr]

and of course his father isn't going to teach him.
This reminds me... when is Uryuu's dad going to be important?

And Isshin?

[Rater202]

When Ichigo was leaning on the power of the Old Man during the Kenpachi fight, the old man said something about compressing Ichigo's Wounds.

That was the old Man using the properties of Blut Vene to keep ichigo from bleeding out.

Ichigo can use Blut vene because incredible skill with it runs in the family and he'd already been taught how to use it in practice before he awoke the power to use it for real.

Isshin is more backstory important than now important, though Ryuken might get involved if Soul society calls in Everyone-they have to know about Isshin by now, since Head Captain Drunky gave Ichigo's friends and families those passes to get into Soul Society. If he or Hat and clogs sent somebody to get him(which would be an excusable ass pull) it's likely that he might try to get Ryuken to come with him.

[LaZodiac]

This reminds me... when is Uryuu's dad going to be important?

And Isshin?

Last chapter was the first actual ACTION Ishida took this entire arc. I imagine his father will never be important, considering how vital it should of been to have Ishida in the thick of the action for this arc about his literal race.

[Rater202]

Last chapter was the first actual ACTION Ishida took this entire arc. I imagine his father will never be important, considering how vital it should of been to have Ishida in the thick of the action for this arc about his literal race.

I disagree that it was important to have Ishida in the thick of the action: We still don't know for sure what the hell his motivation is.

[ben-zayb]

Hmm...I'm not seeing any "Blut Vene markings" in the part you pointed out, so it's not any more remarkable or special than what we've already seen from other characters. If anyone's real good at not bleeding out for a long time despite large, nasty, critical wounds, that'd be Kenpachi. Dude's became Nnoitra's used up pincushion before he even thought of the possibility of bleeding to death.

[Rater202]

Go back and reread the chapters where Ichigo's new Zanpakuto was forged-it's explicitly said that Old Man Zangetsu was using Blut Vene way back, when Ichigo realizes all of the hints towards the old man't true nature now that he knows for sure.

[HandofShadows]

So what would happen if Yhwach tried to Aushwallen Ichigo is a matter of debate.


If he could to Aushwallen Ichigo he probably won't due to Ichigo's Hollow powers. Hollow power does something to a Quincy and we assume it's really bad. If Yhwach drained Ichigo it may well be like drinking poison.

[Rater202]

If he could to Aushwallen Ichigo he probably won't due to Ichigo's Hollow powers. Hollow power does something to a Quincy and we assume it's really bad. If Yhwach drained Ichigo it may well be like drinking poison.

He Auschwallen'd Masaki and was fine-he Aushwallened her because she was part hollow, since she was otherwise pure blooded and the first auschwallen nine years ago only took out impure Quincy.

I'm wondering if Yhwach's line about everything Ichigo did was with Yhwach's consent might mean that Ichigo and his siblings weren't killed in the first selection because Yhwach intentionally spared them-by all means, Ichigo is a living contradiction. He might be interesting, to Yhwach.

He could have Auschwallen'd him at any time, after all, and for a sociopath with a god complex, not killing someone is to give your consent for their existence.

[ben-zayb]

Go back and reread the chapters where Ichigo's new Zanpakuto was forged-it's explicitly said that Old Man Zangetsu was using Blut Vene way back, when Ichigo realizes all of the hints towards the old man't true nature now that he knows for sure.
Hmm..so that was described as such, albeit from just Ichigo's own PoV of what happened, which still didn't address why the powerup dweomer is that of the hollow's mask instead of some pentacle of sorts.

[Rater202]

If you mean the battle aura, it's a hollow mask because despite Old Man Zangetsu suppressing it, Ichigo's dominant power is his Shinigami/Hollow power.

[Durkoala]

So, I read the latest chapter. It's pretty much the same: Yhwach shouts at people, Ichigo shouts at villain people, explosions happen.

I'm not sure what the point of the Mimihagi was if it's just been torn down in a couple of chapters with no consquences (maybe Ukitake will die, but otherwise we're back to square one). I'm also not sure what Yhwach's trying to say about Ichigo's quincy blood. It's not the same as Aizen's claim of planning everything, because he doesn't seem to actually be trying to manipulate Ichigo. 'You aren't doing what I want? I'll go do something sort of important. Somebody shoot this guy, please'. He's also too unfazed by Ichigo not beng under his control to be stating an objective fact. I wouldn't be surprised if he's just trying to see what's so fun about spouting exposition, but is too pragmatic to let slip anything actually important so he just says broadly-true statements about his power as dramatically as he can.

I actually found a theory that sounds pretty interesting. In this, Yhwach is a creation of the Soul King made to kill the king and free him from his existance. If this is the case, Yhwach may not really want to kill the king and end all the worlds but is compelled to do it anyway. His attempts to Ichigo may be deliberate attempts to anger him enough to kill Yhwach before it's too late and his talk of being compelled by blood a hidden reference to his own curse.

Talking of Yhwach's 'You killed your mother' taunt, he may have a point. We've already seen with Kenpachi and Hitsugaya that those with earth-shaking power generally manifest it at a young age. If Ichigo's powers weren't sealed he may have been powerful enough to fight off Grand Fisher. Of course, we then get into the topic of what effect the seal had on Yhwach's knowledge and powers.

My take on what Zangetsu think of Yhwach is that the whole thing is moot because neither Zangetsu exists as a thinking being any more. Ichigo's forging of his sword had him accept that both Zangetsus are different parts of himself and this realisation let him make them into his new zanpakutos. Ichigo outright says that he won't see or argue with or plead with them again because he's become aware that the spirits are reflections of his own mind.

[Rater202]

Talking of Yhwach's 'You killed your mother' taunt, he may have a point. We've already seen with Kenpachi and Hitsugaya that those with earth-shaking power generally manifest it at a young age. If Ichigo's powers weren't sealed he may have been powerful enough to fight off Grand Fisher. Of course, we then get into the topic of what effect the seal had on Yhwach's knowledge and powers.Again-that's not what Yhwach said: He said that Ichigo was weak because he was declaring that he would "Stop" yhwch and not "kill" him, then that Ichigo is weak for no even being willing to kill the man responsible for his mothers death.


My take on what Zangetsu think of Yhwach is that the whole thing is moot because neither Zangetsu exists as a thinking being any more. Ichigo's forging of his sword had him accept that both Zangetsus are different parts of himself and this realisation let him make them into his new zanpakutos. Ichigo outright says that he won't see or argue with or plead with them again because he's become aware that the spirits are reflections of his own mind.
Read that chapter again-Ichigo manifested both Spirits around the time he said that.

Realizing your liver is part of you doesn't make your liver disappear-why would it work with part of your soul.

[Durkoala]

Again-that's not what Yhwach said: He said that Ichigo was weak because he was declaring that he would "Stop" yhwch and not "kill" him, then that Ichigo is weak for no even being willing to kill the man responsible for his mothers death.

The translation I read doesn't have that bit. Yhwach just asks why Ichigo is fighting him and that setting him as Ichigo's main enemy (or root of his resentment) is hypocritical as Ichigo is responsible for his mothers death by being too weak. Then Yorichi Yoruchi Cat lady gets shot by Ishida.


Read that chapter again-Ichigo manifested both Spirits around the time he said that.

Realizing your liver is part of you doesn't make your liver disappear-why would it work with part of your soul.

I felt like that was more of a memory as Ichigo's speech was about never needing to ask for the Zangetsus' help again because he had realised that their power was his power all along. He was through asking what were basically anthromorphisisations (Spelling...) of his heritage and had taken full command of his powers, without being hampered by self-doubt or inner conflict.

The big difference between a liver and a zanpakuto spirit is that the spirit is made from.... I know what I mean, but I can't find the right words right now. Basically, the spirit is part of your psyche looked at in a different way, and by gaining self-understanding the shinigami has no need for this guiding/obstructing sock puppet any more.


Also, Yhwach-Zangetsu doesn't have any noticeable spirit ribbons leading to him. He just let Ichigo find the red ribbon to the Zangetsu box, then said 'Yep, that's definitely me'. Ichigo had no reason to be looking for other ribbons or powers and really needed to find a red one, so it worked.

[Rater202]

I felt like that was more of a memory as Ichigo's speech was about never needing to ask for the Zangetsus' help again because he had realised that their power was his power all along. He was through asking what were basically anthromorphisisations (Spelling...) of his heritage and had taken full command of his powers, without being hampered by self-doubt or inner conflict.

http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130712005708/bleach/en/images/6/6e/542Ichigo_senses.png

Note the fact that his swords are vanishing-that's a sign of manifestation of the Zanpakuto Spirits.

[Durkoala]

This is really vague due to Kubo's art choices, but that seems to be in Ichigo's inner world judging by the sideways cloud. Ichigo is calling up Zangetsu one last time to say goodbye. Notice that he's looking at the swords in his hands as he talks to them before looking up as he prepares to move on. Never does he directly look at the spirits, and they seem to have disappeared on the next page as he tells them that he won't argue with them, plead for their aid or ask for their alliance ever again, but will fight on as himself.

Also, I don't remember swords disappearing when the sprits manifested. Renji had his sword clearly visible both times Zabimaru manifested, Yangetsu's manifestation didn't make Ichigo's sword disappear and Ichigo's swords have always been present in both the physical world and the mental one during his inner battles. I don't think that there have been any other cases of manifested Zanpakuto spirits aside from that filler arc, where there was an outside force interfering (and it was, you know, filler).

[LaZodiac]

The official translation says Bach says "You can't kill me, even though I killed your Mom"

Just lettin' you guys know!

[-D-]

This week's issue - **** got real.

[HandofShadows]

A hole is blown under our hero's feet for them to fall to their deaths. Does ANYONE really think that would work? I think this is an act.

In semi related news, it looks like Tenmanga has been shut down.

[ryuplaneswalker]

A hole is blown under our hero's feet for them to fall to their deaths. Does ANYONE really think that would work? I think this is an act.

In semi related news, it looks like Tenmanga has been shut down.


Considering we have seen that you can gather spiritual energy to create platforms for you to stand on No, nobody should think this at all should work.

especially the tactical genius of the series.

[Rater202]

Considering we have seen that you can gather spiritual energy to create platforms for you to stand on No, nobody should think this at all should work.

especially the tactical genius of the series.

I do believe that's the general idea. Ishida knows non of the others will actually die from it, and more importantly knows that they have good chances of getting back up.

Remember, it was implied that Ishida joined so he could Kill Yhwach. He could be pulling a Gin and is trying to earn enough trust that he can get into position to kill him.

[danzibr]

So it really sounds like Mimihagi is Yhwach's mom.

EDIT: Oh, and Ishida reveals himself as a good guy, as expected.

[Thrawn183]

So it really sounds like Mimihagi is Yhwach's mom.

EDIT: Oh, and Ishida reveals himself as a good guy, as expected.


I'm not entirely certain about that. Monk-guy pretty clearly seemed to think that throwing Bach-guy a long ways would somehow be effective as well. Maybe everyone's getting depowered to the point where fall damage is a thing? I mean, probably not...

[Mato]

A hole is blown under our hero's feet for them to fall to their deaths. Does ANYONE really think that would work? I think this is an act.

It's probably an act. Ichigo just flew at top speed face first into the ground from the SK's place a few issues ago and complained he couldn't slow down in time.

However it's entirely possible they never once stood of fought in the air as the anima depicts. Tite could have just skipped drawing the background and we just assumed they were in the air. :smallwink:

[SlyGuyMcFly]

However it's entirely possible they never once stood of fought in the air as the anima depicts. Tite could have just skipped drawing the background and we just assumed they were in the air. :smallwink:

*snrk* We can't dismiss this possibility, no.

[LaZodiac]

It honestly feels like nothing happened in this chapter.

[Rater202]

I'd like to remind people that Spirits can only stand on the air in the human world-they obey a semblance of real physics in spirit worlds(though Quincy can do it anywhere and presumably so can fullbringers)

[Calemyr]

I'd like to remind people that Spirits can only stand on the air in the human world-they obey a semblance of real physics in spirit worlds(though Quincy can do it anywhere and presumably so can fullbringers)

Actually, that reminds me: Is Ichigo still an active Fullbringer? Does he leave his body behind anymore or does he fight while in his body like Chad and Orihime?

[Mato]

Actually Chad and Orihime have their physical bodies converted over to spiritual ones when they go to Soul Society by Urahara's gate.

Word of God says Ichigo still has his Fullbring through. And we were teased with seeing them again *shrugs*

[Calemyr]

Actually Chad and Orihime have their physical bodies converted over to spiritual ones when they go to Soul Society by Urahara's gate.

Word of God says Ichigo still has his Fullbring through. And we were teased with seeing them again *shrugs*

That's a fair point, but not exactly what I meant. As a Shinigami Ichigo leaves his body to fight, be it through Rukia's gloves, Urahara's cane, Ukitake's badge, or Kon's candy. He leaves the body behind, sometimes with comedic consequences and sometimes with Kon in control. He is a purely spirit being in that form and most people are not aware of him at all. As a Fullbringer Ichigo remains in his body. People can see a Fullbringer, even if they can't see the energies that are being brought to bear. Chad and Orihime likewise maintain their physical bodies while fighting. Even in the spirit realms, their bodies are "converted" rather than discarded. It's still their body, regardless of the particular plane of reality.

So the question I'm asking is: Does Ichigo leave his body behind (like a Shinigami) or fight in his body (like a Fullbringer)?

[HandofShadows]

Or does his Soul Reaper form has his Fullbring abilities.

[Rater202]

Consider that his Zanpakuto and Shinigami uniform both changed after her learned Fullbring?

The abilities are clearly in his Shinigami form, which is fitting since Fullbring is basically hollow powers used by a human, and Ichigo's Hollow Powers and his Shinigami powers are one and the same.

[Mato]

So the question I'm asking is: Does Ichigo leave his body behind (like a Shinigami) or fight in his body (like a Fullbringer)?I see where you're going now, it's a good question.

I think normally, to prevent his powers from spilling, he probably exits his body and lets his badge limit him otherwise. Right now through, Oetsu opened a gate to kick Ichigo back to the human realm and his assistant kidnapped him back he appeared in his normal body so I'm leaning towards Ichigo is using his (converted) human body like the rest are.

[ben-zayb]

New Naruto Chapter!Apparently the soul king is actually so powerful that 1. even Ywhach can't even contain it, 2. instead of just having one living hand off its body, it spawned a swarm of living mini-Jyuubi-like critters.

Kubo's talent of stretching out a page or two worth of content to 15-16 pages is just extraordinary. At least I can finally look forward to God-Complex 1.0 being pitted against God-Complex 2.0.

[danzibr]

New Naruto Chapter!Apparently the soul king is actually so powerful that 1. even Ywhach can't even contain it, 2. instead of just having one living hand off its body, it spawned a swarm of living mini-Jyuubi-like critters.

Kubo's talent of stretching out a page or two worth of content to 15-16 pages is just extraordinary. At least I can finally look forward to God-Complex 1.0 being pitted against God-Complex 2.0.
Yeah, that surprised me. The Almighty wavering. So he's attempting to absorb *all* of Seireitei, right? But he can't handle the SK's power. Then again, maybe it's more telling of the SK than it is of Yhwach.

Also... did they bring Aizen up in his chair? That's what it seemed like. Or was he communicating to them from beneath?

Speaking of stretching content, the mini-Mimihagi things felt like filler to me.

[LaZodiac]

Yeah, that surprised me. The Almighty wavering. So he's attempting to absorb *all* of Seireitei, right? But he can't handle the SK's power. Then again, maybe it's more telling of the SK than it is of Yhwach.

Also... did they bring Aizen up in his chair? That's what it seemed like. Or was he communicating to them from beneath?

Speaking of stretching content, the mini-Mimihagi things felt like filler to me.

We can't tell because now all of Soul Society has a pure black background. I mean...at least it's not a pure white background!

God damnit Kubo this chapter felt like...two pages of content. Nothing happened, but I suppose that's just how Bleach rolls.

[HandofShadows]

New Chapter
Spent the whole time in the SS with Aizen playing games.

[LaZodiac]

I want there to be another Bleach fighting game that includes Chaizen.

[Spacewolf]

Doesn't this make everything hat and clogs has been doing up until this point utterly pointless?

[LaZodiac]

Doesn't this make everything hat and clogs has been doing up until this point utterly pointless?

Yes. You're implying that matters to Kubo.

[HandofShadows]

Doesn't this make everything hat and clogs has been doing up until this point utterly pointless?

No, just his plan to get to the Royal realm. His other plan(s) are so far untouched and we don't know what his master plan is at the moment, just that it involves the Hollow realm.

[Spacewolf]

I'm more implying that considering the amount of chapters that was built up and the speed at which the plot is currently progressing it seems like we are actually going backwards in terms of plot.

[danzibr]

I want there to be another Bleach fighting game that includes Chaizen.
I'd love to see this.
So... Aizen collapsed the portal to the Royal Palace? And why?

Also, I found the line about him getting stronger the past 2 years pretty crap. Or maybe... everything is going according to his plans.

[TechnoWarforged]

Chapter #622: Oh trollzen. You are so awesome. This is all the works of Kyōka Suigetsu, and Aizen is really the true hero of soul society and bleach!

[danzibr]

Chapter #622: Oh trollzen. You are so awesome. This is all the works of Kyōka Suigetsu, and Aizen is really the true hero of soul society and bleach!
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-q1b19wAsgjQ/VPAEGghjNYI/AAAAAAAAD7w/LK9FJAFj164/w220-h229/images%2B%252827%2529.jpg

[Ramza00]

Doesn't this make everything hat and clogs has been doing up until this point utterly pointless?

Has anything from Aizen reveal to Aizens Invasion of Karakura been anything but filler? (4 years 2005 to 2009) All you need was the introductions of the vaizards, turn back the arc, and some temporary rival to ichigo

This is followed by 2 years of taking down Aizen and going on 4 years of the quincy war, aka the wars that never end.

[Spacewolf]

Eh I didn't have to wait through that since I only started reading at the start of the thousand year arc.

[Lethologica]

Has anything from Aizen reveal to Aizens Invasion of Karakura been anything but filler? (4 years 2005 to 2009) All you need was the introductions of the vaizards, turn back the arc, and some temporary rival to ichigo

This is followed by 2 years of taking down Aizen and going on 4 years of the quincy war, aka the wars that never end.
retroactive filler hooraaaaaaaaaaaaaay :smallsigh: Only Kubo.

[ben-zayb]

Meh. At least Kubo spared Urahara this chapter the indignity of having a WTF look on his face.

[Anteros]

Just because a plot point isn't pertinent at every single point in a story doesn't make it "filler". Past events such as Aizen's reveal certainly do not qualify as filler.

I rather like having Aizen back in the story. He's one of the best characters in Bleach.

[Rater202]

It would be hilarious if Aizen's Plan to shoot Down the Soul King's palace failed because Ichigo is in the way.

As for Aizen getting stronger-If Reiatsu is like a muscle, i gets stronger when you strain it, and if Aizen was straining against the seals on his spiritual Energies, then it would make sense that it would get stronger.

[LaZodiac]

It would be hilarious if Aizen's Plan to shoot Down the Soul King's palace failed because Ichigo is in the way.

As for Aizen getting stronger-If Reiatsu is like a muscle, i gets stronger when you strain it, and if Aizen was straining against the seals on his spiritual Energies, then it would make sense that it would get stronger.

Rater no look what you've made me do.

Ichigo falls from the sky. The bullet from the X-Axis hit him, though he had managed to avoid the head shot. He can't see his friends but he can sense they're alright. But as he falls, the Soul King's Palace slowly fading away, he knows that as safe as his friends are, he's just as equally unsafe. He closes his eyes, wondering how he'll get out of it this time.

Thud. Ichigo doesn't open his eyes, afraid to see his body twisted. But then he hears a familiar voice. "Ah, Ichigo. I like the new outfit. Open your eyes, you're safe now...my friend."

Ichigo opens his eyes and finds himself in Aizen's arms. That crafty bastard, sitting in a chair soaring to the heavens on Reitsu. Ichigo blushes and looks away.

"Just because I understand you, doesn't mean I like you, Baka Aizen."

[Rater202]

Rater no look what you've made me do.

Ichigo falls from the sky. The bullet from the X-Axis hit him, though he had managed to avoid the head shot. He can't see his friends but he can sense they're alright. But as he falls, the Soul King's Palace slowly fading away, he knows that as safe as his friends are, he's just as equally unsafe. He closes his eyes, wondering how he'll get out of it this time.

Thud. Ichigo doesn't open his eyes, afraid to see his body twisted. But then he hears a familiar voice. "Ah, Ichigo. I like the new outfit. Open your eyes, you're safe now...my friend."

Ichigo opens his eyes and finds himself in Aizen's arms. That crafty bastard, sitting in a chair soaring to the heavens on Reitsu. Ichigo blushes and looks away.

"Just because I understand you, doesn't mean I like you, Baka Aizen."

You now, there is at least one Fanfic were the War ended because Gin forged a marriage contract between Ichigo and Aizen...

[LaZodiac]

You now, there is at least one Fanfic were the War ended because Gin forged a marriage contract between Ichigo and Aizen...

I was not aware of this. I kind of wish I wasn't honestly.

[danzibr]

Rater no look what you've made me do.

Ichigo falls from the sky. The bullet from the X-Axis hit him, though he had managed to avoid the head shot. He can't see his friends but he can sense they're alright. But as he falls, the Soul King's Palace slowly fading away, he knows that as safe as his friends are, he's just as equally unsafe. He closes his eyes, wondering how he'll get out of it this time.

Thud. Ichigo doesn't open his eyes, afraid to see his body twisted. But then he hears a familiar voice. "Ah, Ichigo. I like the new outfit. Open your eyes, you're safe now...my friend."

Ichigo opens his eyes and finds himself in Aizen's arms. That crafty bastard, sitting in a chair soaring to the heavens on Reitsu. Ichigo blushes and looks away.

"Just because I understand you, doesn't mean I like you, Baka Aizen."
I rater like the idea of Ichigo falling on Aizen.

[Rater202]

I was not aware of this. I kind of wish I wasn't honestly.

Don't worry, it happens towards the end of a very long series of Crack (https://www.fanfiction.net/s/5982232/1/Please-Stop-Eating-The-Hell-Butterflies)

[SlyGuyMcFly]

I rather like having Aizen back in the story. He's one of the best characters in Bleach.

I know, right? Sure nothing much happened but Aizen can make even that entertaining. At least, he can when he's being all hammy and smug :smallbiggrin:

[LaZodiac]

I still want Chairzen to be a playable character in a Bleach fighting game.

[danzibr]

I still want Chairzen to be a playable character in a Bleach fighting game.
This is a Bleach game I would actually buy.

[danzibr]

A thought just occurred to me.

Does Ichigo ever indicate he likes someone? There are at least a few instances where someone more or less professes his/her love (Orihime->Ichigo, Rangiku->Gin, Gin->Rangiku, Rukia->Kaien, Aizen->Ichigo, etc.), but I can't think of Ichigo doing do.

[danzibr]

Yet *more* people join the good guys!

And what a short amount of showtime for a baddie.

[Spacewolf]

So next two chapters will be the Fullbringers arriving, then four chapters after that will be getting the group to the palace where they will do precisely jack.

[danzibr]

So next two chapters will be the Fullbringers arriving, then four chapters after that will be getting the group to the palace where they will do precisely jack.
Oh yeah, forgot about them.

We should take a quick tally of remaining good guys v. bad guys. (I'm using the term ``good guys'' loosely.)

For bad guys, we have... Yhwach, his right hand man, Ishida, and his elite 4?

Oooooh, maybe after Yhwach goes, Aizen becomes the main bad guy again.

Speaking of which, I found the line about being unable to kill the people in mugen interesting.

[ben-zayb]

Whoa, I actually liked this chapter despite not much happening.

Probably Bazzbee. Dangit, dude just shouldn't die the generic villain death. He had more personality than the four dweebs up there with Ywhach.

[danzibr]

Whoa, I actually liked this chapter despite not much happening.

Probably Bazzbee. Dangit, dude just shouldn't die the generic villain death. He had more personality than the four dweebs up there with Ywhach.
And that mohawk ;)

[LaZodiac]

I am happy this chapter happened because I have an enormous and inexplicable les crush on Liltotto. Giselle is also just extremely fascinating as a character because she's basically a Zombie Powder character who fell into Bleach and decided to continue having sex with corpses and being really just...weird as ****. Bazz-B is also just kind of cool in general I suppose.

Nanana Najakoop still has the best name though. I suppose his power, the Underbelly, lets him scan your Reitsu and then poison it?

[danzibr]

No Bleach this week!? Kubo sick again? Poor guy.

So, for an earlier question of mine which went by unnoticed (or at least, unrespondedto):

A thought just occurred to me.

Does Ichigo ever indicate he likes someone? There are at least a few instances where someone more or less professes his/her love (Orihime->Ichigo, Rangiku->Gin, Gin->Rangiku, Rukia->Kaien, Aizen->Ichigo, etc.), but I can't think of Ichigo doing do.

[HandofShadows]

Only a character from the Memories of Nobody movie Senna. But that's a non-continuity story.

[LaZodiac]

No Bleach this week!? Kubo sick again? Poor guy.

So, for an earlier question of mine which went by unnoticed (or at least, unrespondedto):

A thought just occurred to me.

Does Ichigo ever indicate he likes someone? There are at least a few instances where someone more or less professes his/her love (Orihime->Ichigo, Rangiku->Gin, Gin->Rangiku, Rukia->Kaien, Aizen->Ichigo, etc.), but I can't think of Ichigo doing do.

Naw it was just a break week for him, and no one seemed to really notice I guess. Also Golden Week is coming up soon oh man.

[Durkoala]

This must be the next step in Kubo's exercise in plot progression speed. Instead of a week with a couple of pages' events, we get a week with no pages at all.:smalltongue:

[Mato]

And then next week you do.
And then the next week you don't.
And then maybe the week after that you do depending on the whims of Tite and his weekly paycheck.

[ben-zayb]

What do you mean there's no bleach this week? This week's chapter is perfectly on par with Kubo's many other chapters, as far as story progression is concerned!

[danzibr]

What do you mean there's no bleach this week? This week's chapter is perfectly on par with Kubo's many other chapters, as far as story progression is concerned!
Hey, epsilon is strictly bigger than 0.

[Ramza00]

I just realized why we had 20+ chapters with the name deicide. I been reading the word as decide and not the real word used which was deicide (notice the extra I letter)

Both Deicide and Decide come from Latin but the change of one letter is a big deal

Decideis to come to a decision, to make a choice. This meaning was originally a judge pronouncing a sentence on a person. This meaning roots ies the Latin decidere "to decide, determine," from the rootsliterally "to cut off," from de- "off" (see de-) + caedere "to cut" (see -cide).

De I cide (Done for emphasis) meaning to decide is god killer as in Deus aka god and -cīda aka killer. Now the cida root has multiple meanings but to kill, slaughter, cut, are the main ones

Here is Wikipedia on the god killer meaning for the decide word has lots of religious undertones due to the Catholic Church using Latin as their prime language connected to their religion and the life, sentencing, death and resurrection of their god Jesus is one of the big deals for the catholic church (I am a agnostic and do not care about religion, these comments are not about religion but more of a history language discussion)

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deicide

Gin's zanpukto is also related for its name means sacred spear its shika's release is shoot to kill and its true bankai form is god killing spear. Just like Jesusm was stabbed by the holy lance also known as the lance of the roman solider Longinus. (Jesus was either near death and the stabbed him to put him out of his misery, or they thought he was dead and they just wanted to confirm so)

So now we have aizen one who became god soon going against Bach the literal some of god and with a name that means god (technically it is Ywach but I prefer Bach)

[danzibr]

I just realized why we had 20+ chapters with the name deicide. I been reading the word as decide and not the real word used which was deicide (notice the extra I letter)

Both Deicide and Decide come from Latin but the change of one letter is a big deal

Decideis to come to a decision, to make a choice. This meaning was originally a judge pronouncing a sentence on a person. This meaning roots ies the Latin decidere "to decide, determine," from the rootsliterally "to cut off," from de- "off" (see de-) + caedere "to cut" (see -cide).

De I cide (Done for emphasis) meaning to decide is god killer as in Deus aka god and -cīda aka killer. Now the cida root has multiple meanings but to kill, slaughter, cut, are the main ones

Here is Wikipedia on the god killer meaning for the decide word has lots of religious undertones due to the Catholic Church using Latin as their prime language connected to their religion and the life, sentencing, death and resurrection of their god Jesus is one of the big deals for the catholic church (I am a agnostic and do not care about religion, these comments are not about religion but more of a history language discussion)

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deicide

Gin's zanpukto is also related for its name means sacred spear its shika's release is shoot to kill and its true bankai form is god killing spear. Just like Jesusm was stabbed by the holy lance also known as the lance of the roman solider Longinus. (Jesus was either near death and the stabbed him to put him out of his misery, or they thought he was dead and they just wanted to confirm so)

So now we have aizen one who became god soon going against Bach the literal some of god and with a name that means god (technically it is Ywach but I prefer Bach)
... Right. Deicide with 2 i's.

[Razade]

This chapter. This. @#$!. Chapter.

Oh look. It's Kon. No one cares about Kon. Oh look, an attempt at humor. Oh look, Grimmjow. Not a surprise in the least. Cliffhanger. Keep dragging it out Kubo. Keep bloody dragging it out. Just absolute garbage. The Naruto Reboot was better than this.

[Starwulf]

Sigh

So, two things to take away from the new chapter. #1: Panty shot of Yoirichi. #2: Grimmjow has returned. Beyond that, this chapter was quite the waste :-(.

[ben-zayb]

...seeing Grimmjow and Bazzbee interact with, and by that I include attempts to threaten and kill, each other

[danzibr]

Sigh

So, two things to take away from the new chapter. #1: Panty shot of Yoirichi. #2: Grimmjow has returned. Beyond that, this chapter was quite the waste :-(.
I too was going to comment on the fan service.

So... are Ichigo & co. still in SKP? Or did they fall all the way down to SS? From what I can tell, Yoruichi used like a grappling hook or something to hold them up and Inoue lifted them with her powers.

One thing I found interesting was what Ichigo said about using his reiatsu to make steps. Maybe it just takes a certain amount of relative strength? Like any old Shinigami can do it in the real world, but only really strong ones can in SS?

[ryuplaneswalker]

Sigh

So, two things to take away from the new chapter. #1: Panty shot of Yoirichi. #2: Grimmjow has returned. Beyond that, this chapter was quite the waste :-(.

Fanservice for the dudes, then Fanservice for the Ladies.

[HandofShadows]

Sigh

So, two things to take away from the new chapter. #1: Panty shot of Yoirichi.

What makes you think she wears them? :smallconfused:

[LaZodiac]

What makes you think she wears them? :smallconfused:

We literally see a panty shot of them.

Anyway, Bleach chapter! Literally not one ****ing thing happens in this episode. It'd be a good 3 minutes of the anime, if it wasn't cancelled for the Rock Lee's Springtime of Youth spinoff comedy series.

[TechnoWarforged]

This Trope again...

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DefeatMeansFriendship

[LaZodiac]

This Trope again...

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DefeatMeansFriendship

I'm okay with this since the Good Guy Quincies are being really Tsundere about their friendship, and because I legitimately have the biggest lady crush on Liltotto for reasons I'm not quite sure of.

[HandofShadows]

This Trope again...

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DefeatMeansFriendship

Actually considering how he reacted to the possibility he heard Ichigo on the phone back when and called him a bastard, don't be so sure.

[Anonymouswizard]

We literally see a panty shot of them.

Anyway, Bleach chapter! Literally not one ****ing thing happens in this episode. It'd be a good 3 minutes of the anime, if it wasn't cancelled for the Rock Lee's Springtime of Youth spinoff comedy series.

Why do you think she even understands them? Tite could just be using very unusual censorship.

Okay, my actual theory is that she's wearing a leotard.

[danzibr]

Or she doesn't shave, and grooms well.

Sorry <.<

[LaZodiac]

Or she doesn't shave, and grooms well.

Sorry <.<

I want to say this is disgusting but a few months ago we had someone trying to sex corpses in series so I don't think I can say so in good faith.

[danzibr]

I want to say this is disgusting but a few months ago we had someone trying to sex corpses in series so I don't think I can say so in good faith.
Hey, nothing wrong with a little hair. Or a lot of hair.

[Anonymouswizard]

Hey, nothing wrong with a little hair. Or a lot of hair.

Yep, I think this is the best theory we've got. Makes perfect sense with the character as well.

If anyone is squicked out by it, they can a) imagine it's left over from the cat form or b) stop getting worked up over how humans are supposed to look.

[ryuplaneswalker]

Yep, I think this is the best theory we've got. Makes perfect sense with the character as well.

If anyone is squicked out by it, they can a) imagine it's left over from the cat form or b) stop getting worked up over how humans are supposed to look.


You mean how Disembodied Souls...that can be born since they have noble family bloodlines, but have sorta blood (way too much really) are supposed to look.


BLEACH IS WEIRD.

[LordRahl6]

BLEACH IS WEIRD.

How is that news to any of us any more than the return this week of a Long Dormant Character?:amused:

[ryuplaneswalker]

How is that news to any of us any more than the return this week of a Long Dormant Character?:amused:

Oh it is not news, but sometimes things need to be re-stated for clarity.

[Starwulf]

Yep, I think this is the best theory we've got. Makes perfect sense with the character as well.

If anyone is squicked out by it, they can a) imagine it's left over from the cat form or b) stop getting worked up over how humans are supposed to look.

Or Option C: It's really just panties :) And, I don't know of any woman, even ones who don't shave at all that would have fur that covers EVERYTHING.

[Mato]

Or Option C: It's really just panties :) And, I don't know of any woman, even ones who don't shave at all that would have fur that covers EVERYTHING.I have no idea what I just walked into but yep, right back out into the sunlight for me.

[ben-zayb]

This week on Bleach: nothing much, so let's just talk about Yoruichi's money shot.

[LaZodiac]

This week on Bleach: nothing much, so let's just talk about Yoruichi's money shot.

At least Grimmjow is back. And if I need talk about something other then the ninja girl's panty shot, at least we have the comedic bit of Aizen really trying to move but just kinda wiggling his head.

Also, again, Liltotto and Giselle (also Baz-B I guess) are on team good guy now.

[ben-zayb]

Carry on with the discussion, though. I was just pointing out the rather obvious emptiness of your usual Bleach chapter.

[Infernally Clay]

Just having Grimmjow back is fun enough, although it only reinforces that something twisty must happen soon. There's no way in hell all those Shinigami, several Quincy, an Arrancar and maybe even some Fullbringers are going up to the Royal Palace to fight four Stern Lichter, Haschwalt and Uryu. Even if the Royal Guard are forced to protect Yhwach, that's only eleven of them.

Aizen did say something about how the Shinigami were going up to the Royal Palace before him, so I assume he has some big plan in mind and the arc will go on even longer. If Yhwach is the Quincy son of the Soul King, maybe Aizen really is his Shinigami son. Yay plot twist! :smalltongue:

[LaZodiac]

My only guess is that either some of them are going to die (please no not Liltotto) or Bach's going to use his newfound god hood to bring back some fan favorite Quincies.

So like Mask De Masculine comes back to fight a tag match with Asnodt, against Chad and Grimmjow.

[Rater202]

Part of me is still hoping that the plan is to feed Aizen to Ichigo's hollow side.

[Cyber Punk]

My headcanon for all this jazz is that Kubo doesn't want Bleach to end yet and so is trying to get away with lengthening the arc. I mean, the last few chapters could have been one chapter!

[Rater202]

He did say, back on tenth anniversary, that he wanted to keep writing bleach for another 10 years.

How long ago was that, again?

[Infernally Clay]

He did say, back on tenth anniversary, that he wanted to keep writing bleach for another 10 years.

How long ago was that, again?

About four and a half years ago, interestingly enough.

[Cyber Punk]

5.5 more years to go. Joy.

I wonder if he's aware that he's padding the manga at this rate.

[ben-zayb]

New Chapter
Yeah, the joke's gotten old. *shrugs*

[danzibr]

New Chapter
Yeah, the joke's gotten old. *shrugs*
Huh?

I was quite afraid to click this until I realized... there's no chapter. Perhaps that's the joke?

[Anonymouswizard]

Or Option C: It's really just panties :) And, I don't know of any woman, even ones who don't shave at all that would have fur that covers EVERYTHING.

I assumed it was pixelated.


Huh?

I was quite afraid to click this until I realized... there's no chapter. Perhaps that's the joke?

At least it's moving faster than last week's chapter.

[Starwulf]

New Chapter
Yeah, the joke's gotten old. *shrugs*

You evil bastard-sword! I just spent 20 minutes trying to find a "new" chapter >< LOL

[ben-zayb]

Huh?

I was quite afraid to click this until I realized... there's no chapter. Perhaps that's the joke?

It's related to this idea of yours that I disagree with.:smallwink:

Hey, epsilon is strictly bigger than 0.

[danzibr]

It was a bit too silly for my taste. Seeing Nel was nice. And I wonder if Kubo planned the Yukio + Riruka thing.

[HandofShadows]

When Nel is around things will always get a little silly. Unless she gets mad. Then you better run for cover.

[Spacewolf]

I'm honestly not sure what Orihime and Chad were talking about when Nel showed up were they implying Hat and Clogs is a loli?

[LaZodiac]

I'm honestly not sure what Orihime and Chad were talking about when Nel showed up were they implying Hat and Clogs is a loli?

A lady which huge tits jumped onto Ichigo. Orohime likes Ichigo. The end.

This chapter was alright. Grimmjow is back yay. The Fullbringers are back, DIE.

[Infernally Clay]

I'm honestly not sure what Orihime and Chad were talking about when Nel showed up were they implying Hat and Clogs is a loli?

Huh?

The joke was that Urahara created a device that keeps Nel in her adult form because he's a pervert.

[Spacewolf]

Huh?

The joke was that Urahara created a device that keeps Nel in her adult form because he's a pervert.

Right I did think that it was either that or the Loli one but considering how put out Hime looked and since it came back right after the return to child form line I went with the more questionable answer.

[ben-zayb]

I would've preferred Urahara doing his plotmancy with Shishigawara instead of Yukio...I guess Riruka's okay, and at least more interesting than Yukio or butler dude.

For a second I was hoping to see another badass espada, but it's the girl with saliva-inducing throat-****. As if Yoruichi and Orihime are not enough fanservice already. :smallsigh:

[Spacewolf]

Eh I would have preferred Starrk to Grimjow at least, Nel is basically a requirement since she started this whole mess off.

[danzibr]

I'm honestly not sure what Orihime and Chad were talking about when Nel showed up were they implying Hat and Clogs is a loli?
I think implying he's a perv, that he prefers her in that form. Same thing regarding Orihime's outfit.

[LordRahl6]

My one question about this week's chapter is where's the rest of Xecution group? Isn't it more power the better, and aren't they hanging around the Shiba residence in the Rukongai?:smallconfused:

[Rater202]

Jackie lost her powers, Tsukishima, Ginjo, and watch man are dead, and Gullbring goes away when you die so they're basically just ordenary souls now.

Even if the Fullbring effects being undone with the bringer's death didn't mean they lost power, those three all died to Zanpakuto, meaning their souls would have been cleansed, so no hollow powers. And since Fullbring is hollow powers...

At most, Ginjo might be a shinigami, but without an Asauchi to bond with he can't channel his powers.

And jackpot knuckle man is incredibly underpowered in this circumstance-really all of the bringers are, but Riruka and PSPboy have powers that are useful in Noncombat situations-They're here for Support.

[HandofShadows]

Eh I would have preferred Starrk to Grimjow at least, Nel is basically a requirement since she started this whole mess off.

Naw, everything would have happened anyway. In fact Nel involving Ichigo probably helped quite a bit rather than hurt. I like Nel, she's is a nice person (despite acting childish and the fanservice) and likely has an fairly important part to play. She is a very powerful opponent and a smart one was well. She has the added advantage of knowing two Vice Captains so there should be little if any friction with the SS people. I have a feeling the armband Hat & Clogs gave her does little more than prevent her power from leaking out from her old injury.

[Spacewolf]

Naw, everything would have happened anyway. In fact Nel involving Ichigo probably helped quite a bit rather than hurt. I like Nel, she's is a nice person (despite acting childish and the fanservice) and likely has an fairly important part to play. She is a very powerful opponent and a smart one was well. She has the added advantage of knowing two Vice Captains so there should be little if any friction with the SS people. I have a feeling the armband Hat & Clogs gave her does little more than prevent her power from leaking out from her old injury.

I meant that since she was the one who sent of Ichigo to HM it would be weird if they had had another Arrancar show up and not had her there as well since she's obviously active.

[LaZodiac]

Jackie lost her powers, Tsukishima, Ginjo, and watch man are dead, and Gullbring goes away when you die so they're basically just ordenary souls now.

Even if the Fullbring effects being undone with the bringer's death didn't mean they lost power, those three all died to Zanpakuto, meaning their souls would have been cleansed, so no hollow powers. And since Fullbring is hollow powers...

At most, Ginjo might be a shinigami, but without an Asauchi to bond with he can't channel his powers.

And jackpot knuckle man is incredibly underpowered in this circumstance-really all of the bringers are, but Riruka and PSPboy have powers that are useful in Noncombat situations-They're here for Support.

We don't have evidence that Fullbring dies when you die. The dead Fullbringers WHERE helping Ganju beat up Quincies but then they just kinda didn't show up when Ganju did for somereason.

[Rater202]

Reread the fullbringer arc: At the very end, when the final fights are going ion, Ginjo says that when a fullbringer dies, every active instance of their fullbring is reversed-specifically mentioned that all of Tsukishima's alterations to personal histories would revert when he died.

That's positive evidence that fullbring dies when the Fullbringer does.

If not, the fact that Fullbring is hollo powers and the Fullbringers were all killed by Zanpakuto...

Also, we never saw the dead Fullbringers fighting Quincy. We only saw them on Shiba property.

[LaZodiac]

Reread the fullbringer arc: At the very end, when the final fights are going ion, Ginjo says that when a fullbringer dies, every active instance of their fullbring is reversed-specifically mentioned that all of Tsukishima's alterations to personal histories would revert when he died.

That's positive evidence that fullbring dies when the Fullbringer does.

If not, the fact that Fullbring is hollo powers and the Fullbringers were all killed by Zanpakuto...

Also, we never saw the dead Fullbringers fighting Quincy. We only saw them on Shiba property.

I'd argue that's just a sign of "they died so their power stopped working". In the Soul Society they are "alive" for lack of a better term. But you have a point.

As you do with the Hollow thing, though if it's true why would they get Tsukishime to help? He's literally just a regular dude without his powers.

Well yeah but Ganju and them where gonna go bust some heads, was the idea.

[Rater202]

Tsukishime is a normal Dude who knows how to use a sword and has/had some kind of spiritual power.

Even if losing fullbring, if it did happen, cost him all of reiatsu, he still knows how to sword.

In a state of total war, knowing how to sword is a useful skill to have. At bare minimum he could serve as food for the cannons, so to speak.

If losing his fullbring only cost him his abilities but not his spiritual enery, then he has experience using energy and is thus a prime candidate for becoming a shinigami.

[Calemyr]

Didn't Tsukishima die of his injuries after the battle? If the zanpakto doesn't land a killing blow, not just a mortal one, can it purify the soul? If he isn't purified, then is it possible he brought his abilities with him?

[LaZodiac]

Didn't Tsukishima die of his injuries after the battle? If the zanpakto doesn't land a killing blow, not just a mortal one, can it purify the soul? If he isn't purified, then is it possible he brought his abilities with him?

This is a good point. Hooray for Bookmark!

[TechnoWarforged]

Eh I would have preferred Starrk to Grimjow at least, Nel is basically a requirement since she started this whole mess off.

Actually I'll rather have Ulquiorra come back. Considering Ichigo defeated him only in his berserk hollow form it'll make for interesting interaction...

[Infernally Clay]

I really wouldn't expect Ginjou or Tsukishima to show up any time soon. I don't really know if you keep your Fullbring after death, mostly because that'd imply there are a lot more Fullbringers in Rukongai and the ranks of the Shinigami than we thought. If all it takes to become a Fullbringer is for your mother to get attacked by a Hollow while she's pregnant with you, surely a lot of Shinigami would qualify?

[Rater202]

They were compared quite explicitly to Substitute Shinigami

Fullbringers are humans with Hollow Powers, Substitutes are Humans with Shinigami powers.

Presumably it's a funtion of the malleability of living human souls that allows for fullbringers to be created.

Even if they don't lose power after Death, already dead souls probably can't be born as fullbringers.

[Mato]

Reread the fullbringer arc:Reread Tite's love to recon Chad's power source is the same thing we're discussing now :p


http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20111122171802/bleach/en/images/thumb/9/9b/Book_of_the_End.png/190px-Book_of_the_End.png
Tsukishima's Book of the End

http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20131224222709/bleach/en/images/thumb/9/9c/C518p15_Ganju%2C_Ginjo%2C_Giriko_Tskushima.jpg/190px-C518p15_Ganju%2C_Ginjo%2C_Giriko_Tskushima.jpg
Tsukishima still holding the Book of the End while dead.

The phasing used was all traces of their ability vanishes from the world. Easily requantified to mean "from Earth" without nearly as bad of a change as we've seen Tite do out of boredom.

But I wouldn't be surprise if things did change, Tsukishimi is using a Urahara invention that unleashes latent detergent powers allowing him to wipe away his enemy's past, the background, and speech bubbles.
And now you know why it's called 'Bleach'.

[Rater202]

There's not enough detail to prove it's the same sword.

And Chad's powers being fullbring isn't a retcon, it's perfectly consistent with everything that's been said about where his powers came from and have been told about them. We've been over this.

[Mato]

There's not enough detail to prove it's the same sword.First reaction to everything, "That's not proof!" lol. Hey guess what, saying it wasn't a retcon doesn't prove it wasn't. :smallbiggrin:

Bleach is full of retcons, don't believe me if you like I could care less. I'm waiting for the day Orihime is confirmed to be part of one of the SK's recently sliced off arms.

[LaZodiac]

First reaction to everything, "That's not proof!" lol. Hey guess what, saying it wasn't a retcon doesn't prove it wasn't. :smallbiggrin:

Bleach is full of retcons, don't believe me if you like I could care less. I'm waiting for the day Orihime is confirmed to be part of one of the SK's recently sliced off arms.

There was an implication Orihime and Chad got an upgrade/power boost that was Quincy based from Hat and clogs, so them suddenly being vessels for Soul King parts would fit the timing. Of course Chad wouldn't be an arm, though, that'd be silly. He's got the arms of a devil and angel, so his LEGS would be the god leg.

[Rater202]

First reaction to everything, "That's not proof!" lol. Because it's not. In this particular case, the provided picture shows Tsukishima holding a katana. It might be Book of the End, but the picture is insufficiently detailed to prove that ti's book of the end.

I'll note that you're being condescending and insulting again, Mr. Demands Citations and moves goal posts but refuses to provide citations of his own unless they have jack squat to do with the topic at hand.


Hey guess what, saying it wasn't a retcon doesn't prove it wasn't.I don't think you understand what a retcon is. Let me explain: Retcon stands for "retroactive continuity" It is a case of the author altering the canon after the fact, and thus changing the context of earlier works. Bulma Briefs having graduated university before going out and looking for the dragonballs as depicted in Galactic Patrolman Jaco despite being shown as a highschool student in the Red Ribbon Army Saga in early Dragonball is a retcon.

Luke and Leia Skywalker being siblings after two movies of sexual tension and a passionate kiss is a retcon.

Chad being a fullbringer, a living human with Hollow Powers, is not a retcon. You can tell because it is perfectly consistent with all of the other explanations given for his power.

Explanations given are, as follows: A Result of exposure to Ichigo's reiatsu.

A Result of the Hogyoku awakening his potential powers.

Somehow hollow like.

Fullbring, a variant of hollow powers possessed by living humans who were exposed to hollow reiatsu, usually in utero.

Now then, let's check off those explanations: Ichigo is and always has been part hollow, and his hollow powers and Shinigami powers are one and the same. Meaning that exposure to Ichigo's reiatsu counts as exposure to Hollow(like) Reiatsu.

The hogyoku awakening his potential powers. Obviously, as Chad was not exposed to Ichigo's mutant Hollow/Shinigami reiatsu in utero, he likely would not have had sufficient time to absorb it to develop full fullbring, but would have had the potential to awaken it, which coupled with his desire to be strong to help Ichigo, allowed the Hogyoku to manifest it.

It being hollow like in nature is evident from it originating from exposure to Ichigo's hollow like powers, as well as the definition of fullbring.

and I just explained perfectly how the fullbring explanation is perfectly consistent with everything else.

Check mate, I accept your defeat.
There was an implication Orihime and Chad got an upgrade/power boost that was Quincy based from Hat and clogs, so them suddenly being vessels for Soul King parts would fit the timing. Of course Chad wouldn't be an arm, though, that'd be silly. He's got the arms of a devil and angel, so his LEGS would be the god leg.

1. Gaint, not angel

2. That's not nessesarily meaningful of anything-Fullbring names are made up by the fullbringer. Tsukishima's fullbring, book of the end, is not a book that foretells the end of anything, and isn't even a book-It's a sword, that he just so happens to manifest thought a bookmark

[LaZodiac]

Check mate, I accept your defeat.

1. Gaint, not angel

2. That's not nessesarily meaningful of anything-Fullbring names are made up by the fullbringer. Tsukishima's fullbring, book of the end, is not a book that foretells the end of anything, and isn't even a book-It's a sword, that he just so happens to manifest thought a bookmark

Wow. Maybe not phrase things like that makes you come off pretty rude :smallredface:

Thanks, my bad.

I was making a joke :smallwink:

[danzibr]

So many people to respond to!

Reread Tite's love to recon Chad's power source is the same thing we're discussing now :p


http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20111122171802/bleach/en/images/thumb/9/9b/Book_of_the_End.png/190px-Book_of_the_End.png
Tsukishima's Book of the End

http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20131224222709/bleach/en/images/thumb/9/9c/C518p15_Ganju%2C_Ginjo%2C_Giriko_Tskushima.jpg/190px-C518p15_Ganju%2C_Ginjo%2C_Giriko_Tskushima.jpg
Tsukishima still holding the Book of the End while dead.

The phasing used was all traces of their ability vanishes from the world. Easily requantified to mean "from Earth" without nearly as bad of a change as we've seen Tite do out of boredom.

But I wouldn't be surprise if things did change, Tsukishimi is using a Urahara invention that unleashes latent detergent powers allowing him to wipe away his enemy's past, the background, and speech bubbles.
And now you know why it's called 'Bleach'.

They look like the same sword to me. I get the feeling that Fullbringers are supposed to keep their powers when they die. Otherwise... you'll have a relatively useless bunch of people.

But it does make me wonder about other Fullbringers.

Retcon stands for "retroactive continuity" It is a case of the author altering the canon after the fact, and thus changing the context of earlier works. Bulma Briefs having graduated university before going out and looking for the dragonballs as depicted in Galactic Patrolman Jaco despite being shown as a highschool student in the Red Ribbon Army Saga in early Dragonball is a retcon.

Luke and Leia Skywalker being siblings after two movies of sexual tension and a passionate kiss is a retcon.
While I don't think the second example is a retcon (I mean, people have gotten married to siblings before), I do agree that Bleach is not full of retcons.

Some things were forgotten about, and if you include filler arcs then there are inconsistencies, but I do not recall the canon ever changing. Chad's powers, yeah, there were earlier explanations which don't agree with later explanations, but even Tolkien said Treebeard didn't know everything about Middle Earth.

Wow. Maybe not phrase things like that makes you come off pretty rude :smallredface:
It's like his sig says :P

[Rater202]

Another thing, a lot of the explanations given for things like powers in bleach are just coming from people who are making guesses.

[LaZodiac]

It's like his sig says :P

Not gonna get into that.

At any rate! I do hope Tsukishima shows up because he's the only Fullbringer I can remotely like that had a chance of coming back. Dirty Boots lady was great but she has no reason or ability to come back, so brig on pants and suspenders bookmark swordbro.

My affection for characters in this series. Creepy as mind altering guy and the lolita character that eats people with a goopy mouth.


Another thing, a lot of the explanations given for things like powers in bleach are just coming from people who are making guesses.

A lot of the times it sounds "we're 100% sure that's what the power is" though, is the problem.

[Rater202]

And a lot of the time it's coming from people who genuinely know a lot about the circumstances, or are arrogant enough to believe that the explanation they come up with must be the correct one, or have reasons to lie.

[LaZodiac]

And a lot of the time it's coming from people who genuinely know a lot about the circumstances, or are arrogant enough to believe that the explanation they come up with must be the correct one, or have reasons to lie.

Gonna be honest, what reason does Aizen or HatnClogs or really anyone have to lie to some random busty chick and her mexican-japanese friend?

[Calemyr]

It's Aizen and Hat&Clogs! They need a reason not to lie.

[Rater202]

What reason did hatnclogs have to not tell Ichigo that he was part hollow to begin with? Or worn him about Aizen before sending him off to Soul Society?

As for Aizen, he was one of the ones who would be arrogant enough to assume that the explanation he came up with is the correct one.

And if you want to get technical, all of the explanations of chad's powers were correct.

[LaZodiac]

It's Aizen and Hat&Clogs! They need a reason not to lie.

This is a good reason, and why I hate characters like them.


What reason did hatnclogs have to not tell Ichigo that he was part hollow to begin with? Or worn him about Aizen before sending him off to Soul Society?

As for Aizen, he was one of the ones who would be arrogant enough to assume that the explanation he came up with is the correct one.

And if you want to get technical, all of the explanations of chad's powers were correct.

Because of a super over elaborate plot to defeat Aizen and train him. Alternatively because some of those details didn't exist yet.

[Starwulf]

Wow. Maybe not phrase things like that makes you come off pretty rude :smallredface:

Thanks, my bad.

I was making a joke :smallwink:

In Raters defense, Mato has said the exact same thing to him in the Dragonball Z thread("I accept your defeat), those two have been going at it pretty ferociously for a while now.

[LaZodiac]

In Raters defense, Mato has said the exact same thing to him in the Dragonball Z thread("I accept your defeat), those two have been going at it pretty ferociously for a while now.

I just hate the idea of a discussion being a contest to win, is all.

[Starwulf]

I just hate the idea of a discussion being a contest to win, is all.

Oh, I agree, I just didn't like seeing Rater being called rude when he was just throwing back at Mato what Mato threw at him. Two wrongs may not make a right, but they can certainly make you feel better sometimes ^^

[Rater202]

I just hate the idea of a discussion being a contest to win, is all.

Debate. This is a case of factual debate. When debate the facts, there's no such thing as winning. There's just true and false. It just so happens that Mato thinks his interpretation is true, when the facts make it false.

This is a common thread in my debates with Mato-I will have facts and/or logic on my side, proving my interpretation to be more factual than Mato's(remember when he claimed that Ichigo's Hollow was not his Zanpakuto immediately after the chapter that confirmed that Ichigo's hollow was the real Zangetsu? Or when he claimed that the Sternritter letter powers were cases of Fullbring despite that fact that Quincies are fatally allergic to hollow powers and Fullbring is literally hollow powers, and after the chapter that says they're powers Yhwach gave them)

[Infernally Clay]

The reason Urahara didn't tell Ichigo he was part Hollow is actually pretty straightforward - he created the Hogyoku. This, along with how quickly he stabilised the Visoreds, implies pretty strongly that Urahara wanted to create Shinigami/Hollow hybrids and has wanted to for at least a century. Urahara may not be evil per se but that doesn't mean he won't do things that others might find... unethical... for the sake of research. He pretty openly admitted to manipulating Rukia, for example, to hide the Hogyoku.

It's not that much of a stretch to believe Urahara has wanted to see how strong Ichigo can become, whereas Aizen has tried to see how strong he can make Ichigo. Two different approaches to ultimately the same goal.

[HandofShadows]

Hat & Clogs not giving out info is just his part of being a Chess Player. And there are times he really SHOULD tell people and he does not. But he also has sense of responsibility for what he has done. It was Urahara who got the process of getting Ichigo his powers back started.

[Infernally Clay]

Hat & Clogs not giving out info is just his part of being a Chess Player. And there are times he really SHOULD tell people and he does not. But he also has sense of responsibility for what he has done. It was Urahara who got the process of getting Ichigo his powers back started.

Like I said, he's not evil. He's simply manipulative. When all this stuff with the Quincy went down, it was Urahara who not only devised a way to neutralise their Bankai-stealing medallions but even gathered everyone together - Visoreds, Arrancar and even Fullbringers - so they could attack the Quincy in the Royal Palace with every ounce of strength they have.