Fighter/war domain cleric.

[Mandragola]

A friend of mine plays a war domain cleric. I don't think it's a great single-class build as there's next to no scaling on its melee attacks.

It got me thinking though. The front-loaded nature of the war cleric could be seen as a benefit, if you are some other class that already gets multiple attacks. Fighters, and possibly barbarians, could really benefit from the option to throw out a few bonus action attacks a day.

Both are also proficient with con saves, meaning they would be pretty good at keeping divine favour running - though obviously the barbarian couldn't then rage... So that's actually a bit rubbish!

But for a fighter who doesn't have a regular way to use his bonus action each turn, and has nothing else to take up his concentration "slot" this seems like a useful option to have.

I'm not sure it's worth going beyond a one-level dip, unless you're fighting a ton of undead or something, in which case being able to turn could come in handy.

I'm slightly considering it for my shadow monk. Divine favour would be useful and nobody else in my party can turn undead. I could be a respectable archer for a few rounds a day with DF up and 3 shots a turn. I'd been planning 5 rogue levels at some point but that's a major investment. This wouldn't be.

[WickerNipple]

Fighters, and possibly barbarians, could really benefit from the option to throw out a few bonus action attacks a day.

The real problem with War Cleric is the existence of Polearm Master.

[CrusaderJoe]

Ummm... War cleric is one of the best single class builds. Between war cleric extra attack, divine strike, and spells... They are awesome.

I'm not sure why you would think War Cleric is bad single class build. Hell, you get Hold Monster for a domain spell... Hold Monster means you will crit on all attack rolls till they save. Pump Str/Wis and Con... Yeah War Cleric is awesome.

[Fwiffo86]

Ummm... War cleric is one of the best single class builds. Between war cleric extra attack, divine strike, and spells... They are awesome.

I'm not sure why you would think War Cleric is bad single class build. Hell, you get Hold Monster for a domain spell... Hold Monster means you will crit on all attack rolls till they save. Pump Str/Wis and Con... Yeah War Cleric is awesome.

Ignoring feats for a moment, doesn't War Cleric only get an additional attack a number of times per short rest equal to Wis mod?

[Demonic Spoon]

War clerics get a number of features that let them do "more damage", such as their channel divinity, their bonus attack, and the level 8 feature, as well as the various buff spells a cleric can dish out.

That said, I would also imagine that a fighter/war cleric would work fairly well too.

[CrusaderJoe]

Ignoring feats for a moment, doesn't War Cleric only get an additional attack a number of times per short rest equal to Wis mod?

Yup, later they get divine strike though. Additional 1d8 at level 8 and then later 2d8 damage on an attack 1/turn.

The war cleric has divine favor (+1d4 damage) plus all their other domain spells that focus on attacking.

Their level 17 feature is a bit late, but it's decently strong.

Edit: I'm not saying fighter/war cleric is bad. I'm saying War Cleric alone is a good/great single class.

[Giant2005]

Ummm... War cleric is one of the best single class builds. Between war cleric extra attack, divine strike, and spells... They are awesome.

I'm not sure why you would think War Cleric is bad single class build. Hell, you get Hold Monster for a domain spell... Hold Monster means you will crit on all attack rolls till they save. Pump Str/Wis and Con... Yeah War Cleric is awesome.

With their attack action only triggering a single attack per turn, they kind of suck at fighting and when it comes to spellcasting, most of the other Clerics do it better. It is basically a class that tries to be a gish but misses the most important aspects of a gish.
It really is an excellent multiclass option however - the mere fact that Cleric is the only way to get Heavy Armor and Shield proficiency from a multiclass makes it an instant winner alone.

[Mandragola]

I think single-class war clerics make basically ok primary casters but bad melee fighters. I think they sacrifice casting bonuses for melee attacks but all that really does is make them MAD. A war cleric's melee attacks will do worse damage than a light cleric's cantrip, and he also won't know how to do fireball.

They start out fine but don't scale, other than through casting. At higher levels they will probably give up melee attacking and just cast spells - at which point they are getting almost nothing from their domain.

[GWJ_DanyBoy]

Ignoring feats for a moment, doesn't War Cleric only get an additional attack a number of times per short rest equal to Wis mod?

It recharges on a long rest, but otherwise correct. Their Channel divinity can be used to increase their (or someone else's) accuracy by +10, and they get a bonus 1d8 (level 8) or 2d8 (level 14) damage once per turn, and only on their turn (unlike the rogue's sneak attack).

[GWJ_DanyBoy]

A war cleric's melee attacks will do worse damage than a light cleric's cantrip

Does it? Now I'm curious enough to do the math.

Before level 8, the war cleric has the advantage since the light cleric isn't adding a stat bonus to damage.

At level 8, and assuming the relevant stats are maxed, the light cleric does 2d8 + 5 =~14
The war cleric does 2d6 + 1d8 + 5 = ~16.5

The light cleric pulls ahead at level 11, doing 3d8 + 5 = ~18.5

Then at 14 the war cleric jumps to 2d6 + 2d8 + 5 = ~21

Finally at 17, the light cleric does 4d8 +5 = ~23

Now, as you said, the Light cleric is less MAD, and therefore is more likely to have his attack stat maxed. But the War cleric can take advantage of magic weapons with his main mode of attacking, whereas the light cleric cannot.

The war cleric can also burn resources to maximize the attack, whereas the light cleric can't unless he multiclasses with sorcerer. The war cleric can use the great weapon master feat to -5/+10 in conjunction with his channel divinity, and can also do a second attack if he isn't using his bonus action that turn, especially if the first attack missed and he wants to land the extra d8s.

Overall it seems like they are fairly close to parity, with them taking turns pulling slightly ahead of the other at specific levels. The light cleric has the advantages of being ranged and less MAD, but the war cleric has additional flexibility in terms of feats and equipment choices.

[CrusaderJoe]

Does it? Now I'm curious enough to do the math.

Before level 8, the war cleric has the advantage since the light cleric isn't adding a stat bonus to damage.

At level 8, and assuming the relevant stats are maxed, the light cleric does 2d8 + 5 =~14
The war cleric does 2d6 + 1d8 + 5 = ~16.5

The light cleric pulls ahead at level 11, doing 3d8 + 5 = ~18.5

Then at 14 the war cleric jumps to 2d6 + 2d8 + 5 = ~21

Finally at 17, the light cleric does 4d8 +5 = ~23

Now, as you said, the Light cleric is less MAD, and therefore is more likely to have his attack stat maxed. But the War cleric can take advantage of magic weapons with his main mode of attacking, whereas the light cleric cannot.

The war cleric can also burn resources to maximize the attack, whereas the light cleric can't unless he multiclasses with sorcerer. The war cleric can use the great weapon master feat to -5/+10 in conjunction with his channel divinity, and can also do a second attack if he isn't using his bonus action that turn, especially if the first attack missed and he wants to land the extra d8s.

Overall it seems like they are fairly close to parity, with them taking turns pulling slightly ahead of the other at specific levels. The light cleric has the advantages of being ranged and less MAD, but the war cleric has additional flexibility in terms of feats and equipment choices.

Hold Monster for both once they get level 5 spells. You could totally maximize the damage for both clerics. 1- 9 times per day at higher levels the cleric can do this.

Must... Resist urge to make a team of clerics based around Hold Person/Hold Monster... Make a strike force that takes out threats. Yeah not going to resist the urge.

[GWJ_DanyBoy]

To the OP, a Cleric 8/ Fighter 12 multiclass would be a good mix. 4th level spells, 3 attacks and no ASIs lost. Or shift it to 9/11 and lose an ASI but gain 5th level spells.


Hold Monster for both once they get level 5 spells. You could totally maximize the damage for both clerics. 1- 9 times per day at higher levels the cleric can do this.

For some reason I thought the crits from paralysis only applied to melee attacks, but it worded that "if the attacker is within 5 feet of the creature." so a light cleric could walk right up and crit with any attack. But I don't believe that Sacred flame counts as an attack that can crit, since it's based on a DEX save, not an attack roll.

[WickerNipple]

Must... Resist urge to make a team of clerics based around Hold Person/Hold Monster... Make a strike force that takes out threats. Yeah not going to resist the urge.

I'm confused what you mean by this. Bards, Sorcerers, Warlocks and Wizards all have Hold Monster. It's not some exclusive reason to play a given Cleric domain.

[CrusaderJoe]

It doesn't say attack roll under oaralyzation.

"Any attack that hits the creature is a critical hit if the attacker is within 5 feet of the creature".

Casting sacred flame is an attack, it just doesn't use an attack roll. Same with magic missile.

So light cleric would get a critical hit on said enemy with Sacred Flame.

Edit: Also both clerics don't have to roll a d20 with this set up. Critical hit is a hit so you auto hit. Neither has a chance of missing (since they crit hit) so that's not a factor in who is better. At this point it is pure damage potential. I would go with high/Avg/low to really show the potential for each.

[GWJ_DanyBoy]

It doesn't say attack roll under oaralyzation.

"Any attack that hits the creature is a critical hit if the attacker is within 5 feet of the creature".

Casting sacred flame is an attack, it just doesn't use an attack roll. Same with magic missile.

So light cleric would get a critical hit on said enemy with Sacred Flame.

Both the entry for paralysis and the entry for critical hit specify that it must be an attack in order to be a crit.

p. 194 of the PHB, under the heading "Making an Attack", clearly states that all attacks, whether from melee, ranged or from a spell, have an attack roll. If it doesn't have an attack roll, it's not an attack. In this case it's just a cantrip that may also do damage.

[WickerNipple]

Paralyzed is a great condition, but I don't see what that has to do with Clerics when half the classes in the game have access to it... and Hold Monster isn't even a Light Cleric spell.

And Sacred Flame doesn't even Attack?

I'm competely confused by what this has to do with anything in the thread.

[Chronos]

Attacks are things that use attack rolls.

One other point for the war cleric: If you're using the spells as written, without a houseruled fix, they have a near-guaranteed kill option a few times per day. Cast Contagion, use your Channel Divinity on the spell attack roll, and give your target Slimy Doom. +10 to an attack roll nearly guarantees that it'll hit, and as written, the disease sets in immediately, making it extremely unlikely that the target will succeed on the 3 Con saves. Meanwhile, any damage at all will stunlock them.

[GWJ_DanyBoy]

That's a very cool use for the War Cleric channel divinity that I hadn't thought of before: buffing the accuracy of spells. Now I want to make a list of spells that use attack rolls.

Edit: From the War Cleric's list we have:

Guiding Bolt
Inflict Wounds
Spiritual Weapon
Contagion
Dispel Evil and Good
Plane Shift

[Fwiffo86]

Attacks are things that use attack rolls.

One other point for the war cleric: If you're using the spells as written, without a houseruled fix, they have a near-guaranteed kill option a few times per day. Cast Contagion, use your Channel Divinity on the spell attack roll, and give your target Slimy Doom. +10 to an attack roll nearly guarantees that it'll hit, and as written, the disease sets in immediately, making it extremely unlikely that the target will succeed on the 3 Con saves. Meanwhile, any damage at all will stunlock them.

If you use it as written yes. Good thing that has been addressed by the devs and corrected. No houserule needed.

[CrusaderJoe]

If you use it as written yes. Good thing that has been addressed by the devs and corrected. No houserule needed.

I expect it to be errata eventually.

The reason we should bring up Hold Monster is because it is a specific combat option that would be used. It also takes away the need to figure out hit rate. The Dex save is failed automatically and the attack roll is hit automatically. Making some things easy you know haha.

[Mandragola]

Does it? Now I'm curious enough to do the math.

Before level 8, the war cleric has the advantage since the light cleric isn't adding a stat bonus to damage.

At level 8, and assuming the relevant stats are maxed, the light cleric does 2d8 + 5 =~14
The war cleric does 2d6 + 1d8 + 5 = ~16.5

The light cleric pulls ahead at level 11, doing 3d8 + 5 = ~18.5

Then at 14 the war cleric jumps to 2d6 + 2d8 + 5 = ~21

Finally at 17, the light cleric does 4d8 +5 = ~23

Now, as you said, the Light cleric is less MAD, and therefore is more likely to have his attack stat maxed. But the War cleric can take advantage of magic weapons with his main mode of attacking, whereas the light cleric cannot.

The war cleric can also burn resources to maximize the attack, whereas the light cleric can't unless he multiclasses with sorcerer. The war cleric can use the great weapon master feat to -5/+10 in conjunction with his channel divinity, and can also do a second attack if he isn't using his bonus action that turn, especially if the first attack missed and he wants to land the extra d8s.

Overall it seems like they are fairly close to parity, with them taking turns pulling slightly ahead of the other at specific levels. The light cleric has the advantages of being ranged and less MAD, but the war cleric has additional flexibility in terms of feats and equipment choices.

Hmm ok, thanks for running the numbers.

I was basing my thoughts on a cleric using a one-handed weapon, as my friend does. If you use a two-hander then the damage goes up. Even so, it's really only noticeably more damage before level 5, when sacred flame goes to 2d8. Then at 8 it's... really very similar.

In any case my main point is the MADness. You're making your cleric a worse caster by raising str instead of wis just so you can do an attack that's very similar to what you could do with a cantrip anyway.

I think the war cleric 1 level dip is actually a pretty good option for a lot of classes that hit things, and competitive with a 1-level fighter dip. For example if you had a wis 14 rogue then a dip to let you have a second attack twice a day could mean you get to land your sneak attacks when you'd have otherwise fluffed it, and the proficiencies would be handy.

[GWJ_DanyBoy]

In any case my main point is the MADness. You're making your cleric a worse caster by raising str instead of wis just so you can do an attack that's very similar to what you could do with a cantrip anyway.

Well, yes, that is the whole point of choosing War domain versus Light domain, to emphasize either the physical combatant or casting aspect of the Cleric. So of course the Light domain makes a better caster, it's what it's designed to be. It's why the war domain gets extra proficiencies and buffing domain spells and the light domain gets damage spells. You're achieving different goals.

[CrusaderJoe]

Well, yes, that is the whole point of choosing War domain versus Light domain, to emphasize either the physical combatant or casting aspect of the Cleric. So of course the Light domain makes a better caster, it's what it's designed to be. It's why the war domain gets extra proficiencies and buffing domain spells and the light domain gets damage spells. You're achieving different goals.

Actually each cleric is no more mad than the other.

Light: Wis > Dex or Con

War: Str or Wis > Con

You get plenty of ASI to boost two stats of your choice. Light will probably stop with +2 Dex (medium armor) and finish off Con. Wis of course will be boosted. War will boost Wis and Str while leaving Con at +2... Being in heavy armor will be nice.

MADness is more of a wash that anything. Race choice will effect it but it isn't as great of a gap as what some would think.

Dump Stats

Light: Str (some needed for armor though can be ignored), Int, and Cha.

War: Dex (10 minimum would be nice but you can go 8 easily), Int, and Cha.

War will use 4 ASI for stats
Light will use at least 2 ASI, maybe more (con/Dex) for stats.

[Mandragola]

Maybe my analysis is wrong. I haven't played a high-level cleric.

What I think happens is this: You reach a point where your spells are so powerful, and you have so many of them, that casting spells is what you do all the time. At that point what matters is how good at casting spells you are and what spells you can cast - not secondary features like your cantrip casting or bashing ability. So what you want to be at high level, regardless of your domain, is a really good spellcaster.

Two criticisms of my own analysis: Any cleric can get 20 wisdom if they want, regardless of domain, meaning there's no reason for a war domain cleric to be worse than anyone else. And it's not really like there are tons of feats a cleric really needs to blow his ASIs on, so the MADness isn't that big a deal. Plus you've got to level up, and there's kind of no point at which a war cleric is truly dreadful.

So maybe war clerics are fine and better designed than I thought, at what they are intended to do.

I think my frustration comes from being in a party comprising me, playing a vengeance paladin plus a war cleric, storm cleric and valour bard. It feels like everyone else's characters are trying to be full casters who can also fight, and the party really lacks damage dealing (healing, on the other hand...). The players, who are used to 3.X dnd, picked their clerics under the impression that they'd be rather more badass than they actually are. Stuff takes a long time to die.

[CrusaderJoe]

Maybe my analysis is wrong. I haven't played a high-level cleric.

What I think happens is this: You reach a point where your spells are so powerful, and you have so many of them, that casting spells is what you do all the time. At that point what matters is how good at casting spells you are and what spells you can cast - not secondary features like your cantrip casting or bashing ability. So what you want to be at high level, regardless of your domain, is a really good spellcaster.

Two criticisms of my own analysis: Any cleric can get 20 wisdom if they want, regardless of domain, meaning there's no reason for a war domain cleric to be worse than anyone else. And it's not really like there are tons of feats a cleric really needs to blow his ASIs on, so the MADness isn't that big a deal. Plus you've got to level up, and there's kind of no point at which a war cleric is truly dreadful.

So maybe war clerics are fine and better designed than I thought, at what they are intended to do.

I think my frustration comes from being in a party comprising me, playing a vengeance paladin plus a war cleric, storm cleric and valour bard. It feels like everyone else's characters are trying to be full casters who can also fight, and the party really lacks damage dealing (healing, on the other hand...). The players, who are used to 3.X dnd, picked their clerics under the impression that they'd be rather more badass than they actually are. Stuff takes a long time to die.

Depending on what levels your damage output may be low, but the DM needs to account for stuff like that.

The key to your party's tactics should be one or two of the casters buffing the other two in some battles and then switch out. You can't really buff that well but the other three should be doing it quite well.

Buffs and range attacks (strength based works) to keep their concentration up. Also do note the help action is fantastic for a cleric holding a shield with heavy armor...

Anytime you need to smite you should have one of the clerics use the help action. Sure it goes off after a hit, but increasing your chance to hit increases your chance to use smite.

[GWJ_DanyBoy]

Anytime you need to smite you should have one of the clerics use the help action. Sure it goes off after a hit, but increasing your chance to hit increases your chance to use smite.

Plus it increases the odds of a smite-crit, which are huge.

[RulesJD]

False. For War Cleric, just do the following to easily keep up your DPR:

Round 1: Cast Spirit Guardians in your highest slot possible before closing to melee with the enemy.
Round 2: Make melee attack + cast spiritual weapon in highest/2nd highest slot possible.
Round 3: Melee attack + spiritual weapon + Spirit Guardians damage each turn.
Round ~: Upcast Inflict Wounds + Channel Divinity if needed.

Because Spirit Guardians and Spiritual Weapon scale in damage so well (+1d8) you are outputting massive amounts of damage to a single target. If you want, taking 2 levels of fighter wouldn't be a horrible idea for +1 AC (or +2 damage). Suggested you take Resiliency (con) as either the first level if variant human or 4th level ASI to maintain concentration.

Your main goal is to get those high level spell slots to up-cast SG and SW. SG will last you at least 2-3 encounters and the slow effect means many enemies will have to Dash just to reach you in 1 turn. War Cleric is great for this setup because of the access to heavy armor/weapons from the get-go and the fact that the best spells are their domain spells, thus freeing up more Cleric spells to be prepared, increasing the versatility of the build.

[CrusaderJoe]

False. For War Cleric, just do the following to easily keep up your DPR:

Round 1: Cast Spirit Guardians in your highest slot possible before closing to melee with the enemy.
Round 2: Make melee attack + cast spiritual weapon in highest/2nd highest slot possible.
Round 3: Melee attack + spiritual weapon + Spirit Guardians damage each turn.
Round ~: Upcast Inflict Wounds + Channel Divinity if needed.

Because Spirit Guardians and Spiritual Weapon scale in damage so well (+1d8) you are outputting massive amounts of damage to a single target. If you want, taking 2 levels of fighter wouldn't be a horrible idea for +1 AC (or +2 damage). Suggested you take Resiliency (con) as either the first level if variant human or 4th level ASI to maintain concentration.

Your main goal is to get those high level spell slots to up-cast SG and SW. SG will last you at least 2-3 encounters and the slow effect means many enemies will have to Dash just to reach you in 1 turn. War Cleric is great for this setup because of the access to heavy armor/weapons from the get-go and the fact that the best spells are their domain spells, thus freeing up more Cleric spells to be prepared, increasing the versatility of the build.

Spirit guardian is concentration... Casting it over and over doesn't give you more SG. You can have 1 concentration spell active at one time.

Edit: also the damage and save is happens on the start of the enemy's turn.

I love the spell, but your use of it is a bit weird.


Edit 2: what was you calling false?

[WickerNipple]

False. For War Cleric, just do the following to easily keep up your DPR:

None of that is exclusive to War Clerics, any cleric can do that, and most clerics do it better because they're not giving up their lvl 1 cleric power in the process: Spiritual Weapon uses up their bonus action. A Tempest Cleric is much better off using this approach.

(Also, SG only lasts 10 minutes - hard to get 2-3 encounters in during that time as you describe.)

The War Cleric is hampered by a very poor lvl 1 feature that so many classes/feats/fighting styles simply do better.

[Mandragola]

None of that is exclusive to War Clerics, any cleric can do that, and most clerics do it better because they're not giving up their lvl 1 cleric power/channel divinity in the process: Spiritual Weapon uses up their bonus action. A Tempest Cleric is much better off using this approach.

(Also, SG only lasts 10 minutes - hard to get 2-3 encounters in during that time as you describe.)

The War Cleric is hampered by a very poor lvl 1 feature that so many classes/feats/fighting styles simply do better.

That's my thinking as well.

A hill dwarf with life domain can do that just as well, but he has more hp and a domain feature that actually does stuff. A light domain cleric can cast Spirit guardians, hide behind the fighter, throw fireballs or searing lights and dodge incoming attacks.

Honestly I think the example of using spirit guardians and spiritual weapon is kind of exactly why I have a problem with war clerics. It's not that cleric spells are bad - they are good! It's that you should be casting them - not trying to hit stuff with a hammer instead.

So my mountain dwarf's policy would go something like this:

Round 1 (or before fight) cast spirit guardians. Stand behind meat shield.
Round 2 Heal meat shield if required, assist tank, or dodge. Send out a spiritual weapon to bash something.
Repeat.

I suppose that once we hit level 5 and the clerics start doing that my paladin can basically sit back and watch along with the bard. It's worth saying that we ended up with this party with two clerics after running into an enemy cleric with spirit guardians up, who killed us all. Nothing we could do would make him fail a con save :smalleek:

[MeeposFire]

Actually each cleric is no more mad than the other.

Light: Wis > Dex or Con

War: Str or Wis > Con

You get plenty of ASI to boost two stats of your choice. Light will probably stop with +2 Dex (medium armor) and finish off Con. Wis of course will be boosted. War will boost Wis and Str while leaving Con at +2... Being in heavy armor will be nice.

MADness is more of a wash that anything. Race choice will effect it but it isn't as great of a gap as what some would think.

Dump Stats

Light: Str (some needed for armor though can be ignored), Int, and Cha.

War: Dex (10 minimum would be nice but you can go 8 easily), Int, and Cha.

War will use 4 ASI for stats
Light will use at least 2 ASI, maybe more (con/Dex) for stats.

Or you could be a nature cleric and take shillelagh as your bonus cantrip and be super SAD. Only con and wisdom need apply. Also best chance to utilize vulnerabilities with their divine strike.

[CrusaderJoe]

Or you could be a nature cleric and take shillelagh as your bonus cantrip and be super SAD. Only con and wisdom need apply. Also best chance to utilize vulnerabilities with their divine strike.

Yup, but I'm not a fan of their domain spells or other abilities.

Why do nature clerics get heavy armor (metal) proficiency? I've found that to be weird.

V. Human war cleric does the trick if you want to be wis saaaad. Starting ability scores...

Str: 10
Dex: 14 (+2)
Con: 16 (+1)
Int: 8
Wis: 16 (+1)
Cha: 8

Shillelagh as your Cantrip.... Probably Good berry as the first level spell.

Use a shield, 14 or 15 base AC eventually (+2 shield, +2 Dex), d8+wis damage...

Of course this lowers your damage from 2d6 to 1d8 and you fall a bit behind.

Does shillelagh alter polearm master's d4 attack? The spell makes it seem as if it would... Which would invalidate the level 1 ability unless the cleric had a different weapon at the time.

[MeeposFire]

Yup, but I'm not a fan of their domain spells or other abilities.

Why do nature clerics get heavy armor (metal) proficiency? I've found that to be weird.

V. Human war cleric does the trick if you want to be wis saaaad. Starting ability scores...

Str: 10
Dex: 14 (+2)
Con: 16 (+1)
Int: 8
Wis: 16 (+1)
Cha: 8

Shillelagh as your Cantrip.... Probably Good berry as the first level spell.

Use a shield, 14 or 15 base AC eventually (+2 shield, +2 Dex), d8+wis damage...

Of course this lowers your damage from 2d6 to 1d8 and you fall a bit behind.

Does shillelagh alter polearm master's d4 attack? The spell makes it seem as if it would... Which would invalidate the level 1 ability unless the cleric had a different weapon at the time.

Debatable I think you are only going to get an answer from a DM. Logically a staff is normally the same regardless of which end you use but even so some might still say that the feat overrides the spell but I am not sure if I want to try to parse this one out.

[CrusaderJoe]

Debatable I think you are only going to get an answer from a DM. Logically a staff is normally the same regardless of which end you use but even so some might still say that the feat overrides the spell but I am not sure if I want to try to parse this one out.

I would just compromise and say 1d4+wis, but however a DM ruled it I would be OK with it. Unless there is a section of the PHB/DMG that says feats or spells overide the other I guess.

[Garimeth]

IDK, I'm not super impressed with War domain myself, now TEMPEST otoh....