I loved it when it turned out to have all been a dream... [Archive]

Grinner

2015-02-17, 06:07 PM

I guess it works for episodic television series, where the show must continue to have a viable plotline to get to the season finale. For self-contained media, such as books or movies, I can't say it works all that well.

I've only ever seen it done it the context of television series, though...Actually, I didn't particularly dislike it when Supernatural did it. There are movies like Dark City and The Matrix, but while significant portions of the screentime in each might be considered wasted, it should be remembered that they're important in setting up and then subverting the viewer's expectations.

When it's done, I suppose it ought to have some meaningful implications on the events that follow.

Paprika says hi, just for example.

On the other hand, dreams form a central device in Paprika. It'd be weird for it not to have all been a dream.

JoshL

2015-02-17, 06:14 PM

Yes, quite often, in fact. Brazil is one of my favorite films ever. Also: Jacob's Ladder. And I'm one of the six people who really liked Sucker Punch. Literary example: The Neverending Story is a favorite. Umberto Eco's Baudalino is about a liar telling a story to a guy who doesn't believe him. As it goes on, the narrator recording the story stops caring that the story gets more and more fantastic because what was real starts to matter less to him.

But here's the tricky bit, and what can make this a good story element rather than a cop-out ending: it has to matter. The experience has to change the dreamer. Even in Jacob's Ladder...Jake, through his nightmare, comes to peace with dying. Something needs to change or grow, otherwise the story probably isn't worth telling in the first place.

But, to your point, it's such an easy plot device to abuse that there are more examples of it being used poorly than done well.

Seconding Paprika (though I did like Paranoia Agent more).

hamishspence

2015-02-17, 06:16 PM

Seriously, did these words ever get spoken in the history of fiction?

Some troopers seem to like the Captain Scarlet one, seeing a certain Fridge Brilliance in how it was handled:

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Fridge/CaptainScarletAndTheMysterons

LibraryOgre

2015-02-17, 06:19 PM

Giggling Ghast

2015-02-17, 06:31 PM

There was that one episode of BTAS where Bruce Wayne was trapped in a dream by the Mad Hatter. I thought that was pretty good.

Metahuman1

2015-02-17, 06:41 PM

Yes, it was actually.

And, while some people think the final ep of the series used this as a butt pull, I thought it actually worked really well because we got to see a really, really intense "What If?" storyline out of it.

BWR

2015-02-17, 07:02 PM

Gotta agree with most of the posters here, there are several good to great examples of 'it was only a dream'. Generally they should have some purpose other than retconning stuff that's already happened or be nothing but filler.

BannedInSchool

2015-02-17, 07:15 PM

The Usual Suspects is largely fiction.

Dexam

2015-02-17, 07:34 PM

How has no one mentioned Inception yet?

Grinner

2015-02-17, 07:48 PM

How has no one mentioned Inception yet?

I think it's because they don't even attempt to hide the fact that it's a dream. It's only tangentially related to the subject of discussion. Then again, I guess the opening scene would qualify...Same for Paprika, really.

The Glyphstone

2015-02-17, 08:24 PM

There was a short dream sequence a few weeks ago in Grimm that worked really well, because it wasn't obviously a dream, but a logical potential outcome of previous events. Unfortunately, they did it again a week or two later to much less effect, since it was more obvious this time and they'd just used the same trick.

DigoDragon

2015-02-17, 08:29 PM

And I'm one of the six people who really liked Sucker Punch.

My wife and I really liked Sucker Punch enough to have bought the DVD. Its a nice flick we throw in the player on rainy nights our daughter is at her grandmother's house. :smallsmile:

Video Game example-- Super Mario Bros 2 (USA version). In it's own context the entire game was just in Mario's head.

BeerMug Paladin

2015-02-17, 09:10 PM

comicshorse

2015-02-17, 09:16 PM

In Alan Moore's 'Miracleman' comic
the past, cheesy 50's, history of the characters is explained as being a artificial reality generated by the british government who are, rightly, terrified of what the creatures they have created could do.
In one vital story as Miracleman's mind tries to reject the reality he creates a mess of the story being programmed into him in a subconscious attempt to overthrow the programming. The multiple contradictions are only explained away at the last minute by his creator literally telling him 'it was all a dream'. Cue everyone relaxing as this seems to calm the Miracleman family down and then Young Miracelman notices that their costumes have changed during the 'dream'...........

SaintRidley

2015-02-17, 09:25 PM

Dexter's finale works better if you take it to imply the whole series up until that moment is a dream than if you take it as what happens after the series.

CarpeGuitarrem

2015-02-17, 09:33 PM

There's some fantastic Farscape episodes which used its device.

I think the key is that it achieves something--and I fully agree that "it was all a dream" is a weak way to end a series that was hitherto normal. (That said, I'm waiting for a series to prove me wrong. Serial Experiments Lain sorta plays with it some.)

KillianHawkeye

2015-02-17, 09:37 PM

When I saw Total Recall I really disliked it.

When I heard the alternate interpretation, I thought it made the movie better in retrospect, but I haven't tried to watch it again to see if I'd like it any better on a second viewing.

So... There's that.

I hope you're referring to the remake from a few years ago starring Colin Farrell and not the original Arnold Schwarzenegger film, because the original one did a MUCH better job making it ambiguous whether or not the events were real or just part of the fantasy.

In a similar vein, the episode of Buffy the Vampire Slayer that leaves us not quite sure if Buffy is really the Slayer or has spent the last several years in an insane asylum is easily one of the most dramatic and well-written episodes of the entire series. Like with Total Recall, I think the ambiguity helps greatly, since even though the series continues on its normal course there is still that slight, nagging chance that Buffy chose the friends of her fantasy world over her real life family.

Funnily enough, they did an "it was all a dream" episode played totally straight in the BtVS spinoff series, Angel, which was IMO one of the better episodes of the lackluster 4th season.

I'm a bit surprised nobody has mentioned The Wizard of Oz, which I would imagine is the original version of "it was all a dream" (although that only applies to the movie version, not the book).

BeerMug Paladin

2015-02-17, 09:52 PM

I hope you're referring to the remake from a few years ago starring Colin Farrell and not the original Arnold Schwarzenegger film, because the original one did a MUCH better job making it ambiguous whether or not the events were real or just part of the fantasy.

I was referring to the original. I haven't seen the remake.

Bulldog Psion

2015-02-17, 09:56 PM

I remember how I cheered as a kid when the trope was subverted in Labyrinth. Though I still wonder how the stepmother responded when she found the girl's room full of goblins ... :smallwink:

JoshL

2015-02-17, 10:15 PM

Good call on that Buffy episode. One of my favorites, and really fit the tone of the season. And Farscape did have a ton of fun with it...the episode "Won't Be Fooled Again" where John knows EXACTLY what's going on....

DigoDragon, well, now we've identified 3 of the 6 :smallwink:

BannedInSchool

2015-02-17, 10:28 PM

Ah, Futurama had a couple dream episodes too: the deadly space bee sting and Bender's big upgrade. I'd say those worked well.

Lord Fullbladder, Master of Goblins

2015-02-17, 10:34 PM

I have a lot of fondness for Deep Space Nine's episode 'Far Beyond the Stars,' where Sisko dreams he is a writer in the 50s writing about DS9 for a magazine.

Kitten Champion

2015-02-17, 10:46 PM

An Occurrence at Owl Creek Bridge comes to mind, the ending's a genuine twist and creatively executed. As does, upon reflection... A Christmas Carol,

Either the story is done well, where the fact that it was a dream was subtly hinted at that it re-frames your whole perception of the story once it's made its big reveal - like Identity (2003) - or the character is somehow changed by the event so what we see has some kind of broader meaning or context... like It's a Wonderful Life.

Pex

2015-02-17, 11:03 PM

It worked exactly once.

The finale of "Newhart".

"The Wizard of Oz" and "Alice in Wonderland" are open to interpretation.

SaintRidley

2015-02-17, 11:07 PM

I have a lot of fondness for Deep Space Nine's episode 'Far Beyond the Stars,' where Sisko dreams he is a writer in the 50s writing about DS9 for a magazine.

Easily one of the best episodes in all of Star Trek.

CarpeGuitarrem

2015-02-17, 11:10 PM

huttj509

2015-02-18, 01:53 AM

It worked exactly once.

The finale of "Newhart".

"The Wizard of Oz" and "Alice in Wonderland" are open to interpretation.

I loved the Breaking Bad non-canon tribute to the Newheart finale.

Hopeless

2015-02-18, 05:44 AM

When I saw Total Recall I really disliked it.

When I heard the alternate interpretation, I thought it made the movie better in retrospect, but I haven't tried to watch it again to see if I'd like it any better on a second viewing.

So... There's that.

The original or the remake?

I'd have gone with either but I haven't watched the remake

Ah question answered serves me right for not reading through the entire thread!

Yora

2015-02-18, 08:42 AM

There was that one episode of BTAS where Bruce Wayne was trapped in a dream by the Mad Hatter. I thought that was pretty good.

How has no one mentioned Inception yet?
In both of these cases, the things that happened in the dream actually had an effect on the real world. While you could call them dreams, it's not like the story says "and nothing of it ever happened".

I have a lot of fondness for Deep Space Nine's episode 'Far Beyond the Stars,' where Sisko dreams he is a writer in the 50s writing about DS9 for a magazine.
Oh, this is personally one of my most hated episodes ever. :smallamused:

At the very least they later tried to fix it by showing that it was really telepathic aliens trying to destroy his mind, but it still was stupid. I hate all time travel and holodeck episodes too, so take it as you will. :smallannoyed:

BeerMug Paladin

2015-02-18, 09:09 AM

I hate all time travel and holodeck episodes too, so take it as you will. :smallannoyed:

Even Ship In A Bottle? And All Good Things...?

You know, come to think of it, would the, "It's all a dream" ending apply to things where it's not technically a dream, but it has the same result that a dream would?

Like events being erased at the end due to a reset button or due to it being an unrelated universe (or the events happening to clones that won't ever matter)? With perhaps only a single person remembering that anything even happened?

Actually, come to think of it, with this in mind...

Does Madoka Magica count as this? If so, I nominate that.

CarpeGuitarrem

2015-02-18, 11:17 AM

You know, come to think of it, would the, "It's all a dream" ending apply to things where it's not technically a dream, but it has the same result that a dream would?

Like events being erased at the end due to a reset button or due to it being an unrelated universe (or the events happening to clones that won't ever matter)? With perhaps only a single person remembering that anything even happened?

Actually, come to think of it, with this in mind...

Does Madoka Magica count as this? If so, I nominate that.
BTW, I can think of two anime which fit that description, though I've seen both. :smalltongue: Including the one you listed. As to your example, it's kinda amusing because they do lampshade the "it was all a dream" aspect in the name of an episode. :smallwink:

I personally see one bit of difference, and that's with respect to the realness of things: if it was all a dream, none of it actually happened except in one person's imagination. If it got reset or undone, it still happened, it just no longer happened. (That moment when language lacks two sorts of perfect tense.) It does take some punch out of things, but it can also make the consequences harsher, because the reality that was reset was actually a nice one.

That said, not everyone likes them. I'm a Doctor Who fan; I see a lot of people who get vocal about resets.

zimmerwald1915

2015-02-18, 01:01 PM

Video Game example-- Super Mario Bros 2 (USA version). In it's own context the entire game was just in Mario's head.
Same goes for Link's Awakening.

DigoDragon

2015-02-18, 01:20 PM

Same goes for Link's Awakening.

Ah yes! A splendid game and one of my favorites in the Franchise.

veti

2015-02-18, 03:02 PM

"The Wizard of Oz" and "Alice in Wonderland" are open to interpretation.

I haven't read "The Wizard of Oz", but the movie (assuming we're talking about the original classic) leaves no room for doubt that it's all a dream after Dorothy gets bumped on the head by something (a window shutter?) blown by the twister.

So does the book of "Alice in Wonderland", which has never been competently filmed.

In a similar vein, the episode of Buffy the Vampire Slayer that leaves us not quite sure if Buffy is really the Slayer or has spent the last several years in an insane asylum is easily one of the most dramatic and well-written episodes of the entire series. Like with Total Recall, I think the ambiguity helps greatly, since even though the series continues on its normal course there is still that slight, nagging chance that Buffy chose the friends of her fantasy world over her real life family.

I for one hate that episode, for pretty much the reasons you'd expect.

Another movie I - really disliked when I saw it, although I might handle it better today - is American Psycho, which leaves itself open to this interpretation (although apparently the writer and director didn't mean to...).

Edit: I'm surprised no-one has mentioned Nightmare on Elm Street yet. It's an entire movie franchise dedicated to violently rejecting this trope...

Metahuman1

2015-02-19, 07:31 PM

There was a season 4 Ep of X-men: Evolution that did this. We find out a good 5-10 minutes of the Ep was a concussion induced Dream. Then we find out it was caused by a trapped telepath desperately trying to be rescued so that she doesn't drown when the new damn floods the area.

Wardog

2015-03-23, 06:53 PM

It can be done well (as others have said, when the dream is actually meaningful in some way or another).

But as a child, I saw it used far too many times, as a deus-ex-machina to solve the problem of not having enough time in an episode to solve whatever problems the characters had got into, and as a result have a severe dislike of the trope. (I remember Stingray having several episodes where the characters were in a very tense "how-could-they-possibly-survive-this?" situation a minute from the end of the episode, and then: hey - it was just a dream! What a let-down).

Logic

2015-03-24, 10:47 PM

The Princess Bride.

WOMAN: Your true love lives! And you marry another. True love saved her in the
Fire Swamp, and she treated it like garbage! And that's what she is--
the Queen of Refuse! So bow down to her if you want! Bow to her! Bow
to the Queen of Slime! The Queen of Filth! The Queen of Putrescence!
Boo! Boo! Rubbish! Filth! Slime! Muck! Boo! Boo! BOOOO!!
<awakes>
GRANDPA: It was ten days till the wedding. The king still lived, but
Buttercup's nightmares were growing steadily worse.
KID: See? Didn't I tell you she'd never marry that rotten Humperdinck?
GRANDPA: Yes. You're very smart. Shut up.
I was about to agree with the OP. But then you had to go and pull this little gem out of left field.

I think that "it was all a dream" is usually a lazy writing ploy, but it can be used to good effect if used sparingly and it doesn't take up too much time. Unfortunately, other than the Princess Bride, and that one episode of Futurama, I can't think of any good examples.

Cen

2015-03-25, 06:45 AM

Seriously? Second page and still noone mentioned Vanilla Sky or St. Elsewhere?
I'm dissappointed in you playground.

Killer Angel

2015-03-25, 02:02 PM

How has no one mentioned Inception yet?

Because, at that point, we should count also things ala sandman or nightmare on Elm street...

Galen

2015-03-25, 02:15 PM

Second page and no one linked to TVTropes (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AllJustADream)yet? What's wrong with you people?

Killer Angel

2015-03-25, 02:37 PM

Second page and no one linked to TVTropes (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AllJustADream)yet? What's wrong with you people?

Because TVTropes may lead to wasted hours of internet surfing, and we care for each other. :smalltongue:

SlyGuyMcFly

2015-03-25, 03:07 PM

In both of these cases, the things that happened in the dream actually had an effect on the real world. While you could call them dreams, it's not like the story says "and nothing of it ever happened".

I think the crux of the issue is right there. The whole "and then all that crap that just happened actually doesn't matter" makes me want to yell "WHY EVEN BOTHER THEN?". If it turns out it's all a dream, but the events still matter because, say, character development happens as a consequence of the dream, then I'm pretty A-OK with this particular device. It gets kinda fuzzy when the device is used to frame what-if scenarios, though. At that point I just have to go "Ehh... I guess. But your What-If better be really damn cool."

DigoDragon, well, now we've identified 3 of the 6 :smallwink:

4 of 6, here. I think people really miss the point to the film, starting with not paying attention to it's name.

Gnoman

2015-03-26, 04:40 PM

I haven't read "The Wizard of Oz", but the movie (assuming we're talking about the original classic) leaves no room for doubt that it's all a dream after Dorothy gets bumped on the head by something (a window shutter?) blown by the twister.

The book never even suggested that "All just a dream" was even a possibility, with the ending of the movie being forced in because the film producers thought that 1930's audiences were too sophisticated to buy into a stupid fantasy world. Book Dorothy goes back and forth to Oz several times in the course of the series, and Oz is 100% real.

KillianHawkeye

2015-04-02, 04:52 AM

I for one hate that episode, for pretty much the reasons you'd expect.

I'm afraid I don't know what you mean by that.

LibraryOgre

2015-04-02, 03:12 PM

I think it comes down to "Was this a conscious rhetorical device, or was it a last-ditch attempt to get out of writing oneself into a corner?"

The most famous example, "Who shot J.R.?", was an attempt to get out of a corner by knocking down the wall. However, in other cases, it's a simple way to get inside the head of the characters, and tug on the readers a little bit.

"Who kills Humperdink?"

themaque

2015-04-02, 03:18 PM

GM in our most resent game did this. AFter a TPK one players character suddenly WAKES UP, and finds themselves back on the train the whole campaign started on 4 weeks prior. He then starts running things just the same way, only ONE person is remembering this. Everyone else just rolls with it and acts as if they had zero knowledge, and starts doing the same things excepted when changed by that one player.

It can be used for great effect or it can be a hackneyed cheap idea. it all depends on why and how it's being used.

brionl

2015-04-03, 05:57 PM

I was about to agree with the OP. But then you had to go and pull this little gem out of left field.

I think that "it was all a dream" is usually a lazy writing ploy, but it can be used to good effect if used sparingly and it doesn't take up too much time. Unfortunately, other than the Princess Bride, and that one episode of Futurama, I can't think of any good examples.

Romy & Michelle's High School Reunion. Although the first time I saw it, I started getting suspicious about half-way through when she started wandering around in just her bra and no blouse.

Nice ending though.
"I was the Mary!"
"I was Mary, you were Rhoda!"

dps

2015-04-04, 09:53 PM

Seriously? Second page and still noone mentioned Vanilla Sky or St. Elsewhere?
I'm dissappointed in you playground.

Don't know about Vanilla Sky, but the topic was instances in which the "it was all a dream" plot device was actually a good thing, and the finale of St. Elsewhere doesn't fit that, because it sucked.

The most famous example, "Who shot J.R.?", was an attempt to get out of a corner by knocking down the wall. However, in other cases, it's a simple way to get inside the head of the characters, and tug on the readers a little bit.

Uhm, the "Who Shot J.R.?" plot arc on Dallas wasn't a dream. You're thinking about the death of his brother Bobby, and the whole following Bobby's "death", which turned out to all be a dream.

SowZ

2015-04-06, 01:05 AM

Of course, it being a dream doesn't make anything that happened less real. It was always a fictional story. Now it is just a fiction within a fiction. No less valid of a story.

That being said, it is almost always lay writing and is in place of a legitimate resolution. That's annoying.

Suichimo

2015-04-06, 02:37 AM

Scrubs did this masterfully in the season 1 episode "My Occurence". The premise is basically that Dr. Cox's brother in law, Ben(played by Brendan Frasier), comes in to the hospital after an accident on a construction site. The good doctors at Sacred Heart get him patched up and he, Cox, and JD(brought along as the DD) go out to a bar so the brothers can catch up.

As the night is winding down, Dr. Cox notices Ben's hand is still bleeding and Ben makes a remark about bleeding for a while after nicking himself shaving. This throws up numerous red flags for Cox and JD and the three of them immediately head back to the hospital.

A few scenes later, JD is coming in to Ben's room to give him his diagnosis. JD remembers that there have been a few lab mix ups recently and seeks out the hemologist that performed Ben's blood work. At the end, he returns to Ben's room and tells him the good news, he is negative for leukemia. Ben has several people pose for a picture and this throws JD off as Ben mentioned earlier that he didn't like posed pictures because they felt fake.

This is when the dream comes crashing down to reveal JD still standing in the doorway to Ben's room, the first time, and informing Ben that he does have leukemia.

Here is the scene:
https://youtu.be/zNyNYLey_Hw